Workdawg wrote:
The first thing that jumped out to me was in ISO #5, point 4). He accuses me of wagon hopping and states the following:
Ty in ISO #5 wrote:By ISO #22, Workdawg is once again voting Mute, apparently the wagon for my lynch wasn’t going well-enough for Workdawg. To me, there’s a clear distinction on how you’ve been voting.
Instead of trying to hunt for scum, you’re trying to find the easiest way to get someone lynched. This is playing for the win condition of the scum, not the town.
Reading through his ISO, it looks like he's been doing the same thing. He was 3rd onto my wagon, and I don't necessarily blame him for that. I think I was the obvious target for a wagon at that point. But the reason for hopping on my wagon is what concerns me. Did he really feel that I was scum, or did he simply see me as a soft target? Both Nacho and Stels had expressed that they thought my play was just terrible newb town, but he didn't feel the same. I obviously can't comment on why he got on my case, but I can speculate.
I feel like he probably targeted me because I looked like an easy mislynch rather than an extra scummy player. He seemed to have a much bigger issue with Nacho than he did with me at the time, but he still came after me.
Firstly I don't think Ty was ever really serious about lynching nacho at that time. It's natural to be suspicious of authority at times, no one wants to be screwed over by the person who is supposed to be helping them. Also for people who haven't played with nacho he can come across as suspicious in the early game he is the type of player who doesn't enjoy the beginning of the game at all, at least from what I've observed.
As for his suspicion of you I think it was completely justified, when I first read through the game you were also my prime suspect for the beginning of the game. You did do a lot of scummy things in that early portion of the game I think you will agree with this. Your analysis of the situation is what I meant when I say that newb town often
look
for scumminess in every post. You look at a post and instead of objectively analyzing it you try and
find
scumminess. One of the major aspects of being town is we don't know anything. If you look at it from his position, he had no idea you weren't scum he has no idea about anyone alignment really, why is it more likely that he was going for an easy mis-lynch than the simple fact that he thought you were the scummiest player. You say both Nacho and stels thought you were noob town but that is THEIR opinion not Ty's Nacho has many many games under his belt and maybe has a better read over what constitutes noob town than Ty did, and Stels was scum... I mean really he thought you were newb town because HE KNEW YOU WERE NOOB TOWN. Scum are the informed minority, as townies we can only make the best decisions we can. Townies can be wrong. You are stretching here. You immediately see the scum intent in Ty and don't consider his views as a townie. The plague jumped on your wagon as well, why aren't you accusing him of exactly the same thing?
I think his statement holds more scumminess now though. He voted for Stels when all the heat was already on. He was only 2nd to vote, but it certainly seemed like it was warming up.
Up until Ty hopped on me, he hadn't yet voted for anyone. Now, in his exit post, he casts a vote for someone whom he "has mixed feeling about". He has said before that he doesn't feel the need to use his vote to apply pressure, but then what is he doing right now? He didn't build anything even close to resembling a case against Stels, he simply suggested that one of the experienced players is probably scum. With the typo from Drench saying Nacho is being replaced, the only other experienced player to vote for would have been Stels. It seems wholely contradictory to his play style before.
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 8#p2763078
Here TY gives his plausible theories he clearly states his opinions on possible scum teams and is willing to act on this one, he was also the second one on the wagon as you said, that hardly constitutes real
heat
when it comes to just jumping on the bandwagon. Once again I feel you are stretching to make this vote scummy as opposed to what it actually was - a townie acting on one of his plausible theories.
I feel like if his exit post was genuine, he would have stuck to his playstyle and attempted to build a case against the player he felt was most scummy, instead of completely switching it up and casting what can only be described as a "pressure vote." Did he see that my profiles went over so well that he thought he'd try the same thing to get heat off his replacement?
Did you even read the post where Ty voted for stels, it seems at that point Ty had narrowed down his suspects and possible scum pairings, even if stels had flipped town he would have been able to narrow down his possible scum pairings for future lynches, it was a smart vote and you are completely mis-representing him by saying it was a "pressure vote" that's not what he said that's your own
wrong
interpretation of events. Almost scum painting, this entire game you have seemed to find a person and then convinced yourself of that person's scumminess by going through everything that person has done and interpreting it in a way that makes them scummy. I'm not blaming you for this, and in fact it's something that I find newb-town players do a lot. You just need to keep in mind that your interpretation isn't always right, especially when you are trying to hard to make evidence fit that just isn't there.
The other thing that I noticed is that he really didn't do a very good job of defending himself against the initial concerns with his posts.
In ISO #4 he attempts to address the issues of; long posts, too much of a teacher, and tunneling nacho. An analysis of his defense for each follows:
1) Long Posts
He says, generally... Sorry. I don't understand how this is a scum tell. Please explain how long posts would be used to lurk.
He doesn't even really defend himself here. He just kind of dodges this, IMO. It was explained that his long posts were easier to hide misinformation in and that longer posts would look less like lurking than short quips. The argument at that point was that his posts were just filled with general advice and not anything directly useful to the game. I've already said that I don't feel like this was really scummy anymore, but he didn't bother to address it when it was an issue.
2) Being a Teacher
He'd feel bad about not teaching as an SE.
This is reasonable, but again, it doesn't really defend his actions from the issues at the time. It's easy to say that he was teaching, but for the reasons outlined above, it didn't seem like he was doing it in the best interests of the town. Again, he doesn't really address the issue. Just kind of dodges it.
3) Tunneling Nacho
This one I don't really have any issues with. Interestingly, it's also "the most reasonable response" he saw to why he was voted for.
Are you kidding me? Why should he bother defending his long posts or his teaching THOSE AREN'T SCUM TELLS AT ALL. Really you are trying to hard here. He's right in saying that him tunneling nacho was the only reason he thought was valid because it's the only marginally scummy thing he's done.
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Sorry again for that.
. Just seemed like the easiest way at the time, do you want me to repeat what I said in a better format? Have you tried highlighting that post to makes things a little clearer it might help.
