Mafia 126 - Lovers Mafia! [Game Over]

[Purple Orange]

ITT Kcdaspot has to get Baby Spice to confirm his cases so he doesn't look even scummier

Town lovers wouldn't do that
Scum lovers, however, would

And don't you just love how Baby Spice jumped on the first wagon to pop up?

I'm loving every bit of this fallout. <3

And are you agreeing with Reck's point?

[Espeonage]

The hint should have been when I said I've been married for three years. This game hasn't been going on for three years. I have no clue how me being married IRL has anything to do with me being scum in this game.

If you had read my post I said it didn't have anything to do with it. However the way you worded made it sound like you were saying that all lover pairs were married, which they aren't. Reread the way your post was written. What I am saying you implied and you being being married have nothing to do with each other.

[Nero Cain]

No. My point went over your head. I am married IRL, me and my wife don't agree on alot of things. Hence you don't need to agree on things to be a couple. Kcd said he HAD to agree with Bunny b/c they were a couple ITT.

I still don't get why you assumed I was talking about the game but w/e.

Anyways can you explain your vote on Mari? And what made you change your mind on GreyIce?

[Espeonage]

Gonna have to do the first one first. I have to go pretty far back in mine and PO's qt for the second.

Basically it comes down to that for a pair that said next to nothing through day 1 while a town pair came under great scutiny coupled with an extreme change of tone come the new day when there is no sure lynch points to me like a scum couple that are trying to completely stay under the radar when they can and only popping in when they need to. if you want an example, take a look at mari's reactions just after the vote on her. Thick with omgus. It's like her play falls apart when there isn't a sure town lynch.

[Baby Spice]

ITT Kcdaspot has to get Baby Spice to confirm his cases so he doesn't look even scummier

Town lovers wouldn't do that
Scum lovers, however, would

And don't you just love how Baby Spice jumped on the first wagon to pop up?

Four pages ago when I called yourself and tragedy scum should have been an indication that a vote would be forthcoming.



However Espeonage, I think you're right and that Nero Cain has slipped big time. It's definately a slip too because his thought processes assumed that Kcd and myself were married not lovers, nor the parent/child relationship that I've been calling it. (Two of my kids are older than Kcd btw hence my description)

It's been xRECK appearing town that has made me think ignore NC's scumminess, but NC is getting worse in my opinion and now with that slip I think it's time we lynched NC. Soon.

[Nero Cain]

However Espeonage, I think you're right and that Nero Cain has slipped big time. It's definately a slip too

because his thought processes assumed that Kcd and myself were married not lovers

The hell?

[GreyICE]

Okay

GreyICE You were a replacment right?? Or did you just not talk D1??

Mariyta. I'm getting a town read from looking at ISO. She has reasons behind Votes.

Was going to check more people but

V/LA going out of town. Prolly get back on at the hotel

I swear unto god, I know she'll flip town, and if someone says the magic words I'm behind it.

Cannot believe that Baby Spice remembers the ridiculous flavor of this game, I had to check the role PMs to confirm it myself.

Something is very wrong about that.

[silavor]

I'm still not understanding this "scum slip" of Nero's. He talks about being married IRL, and how he doesn't always have to consult with his wife, and that somehow means he has to be one of the married couples in-game? It really feels like you're grasping at straws, Esp.

[Nero Cain]

Don't forget BS who agrees with him.

[Baby Spice]

Actually GreyIce, it was Espy who remembered and pointed it out.
I also went and checked before posting.

Silavor, it's because he assumed that Kcd and I were married, that led him to bring up the marriage analagy. But we know that the scum teams are the only ones who are married. It's the reason they are trying to kill us.

Go and reread his post.

[Nero Cain]

Silavor, it's because he assumed that Kcd and I were married, that led him to bring up the marriage analagy. But we know that the scum teams are the only ones who are married. It's the reason they are trying to kill us.

No I brought up that I'm married b/c that's what I have; which is not all that different than you calling yourself/Kcd parent-sibling 'cause that's what you have. The actual point was COUPLES DO NOT HAVE TO AGREE WITH EACH OTHER. IDK why you are deliberately misreading.

[Purple Orange]

I don't think it was a scumslip. I think it's just him going with the tighter and snappier version of a putdown comeback.

Compare: "I don't have to agree with my wife, and neither do you" vs. "I don't have to agree with my wife, and you don't have to agree with your lover." Which has more zing to it?

[Purple Orange]

Either that, or the RL example was so strong in his mind it just carried over and overwrote ingame terminology. He still might be scum, but I don't think role PMs had anything to do with this. :/

[EmpTyger]

My top 4 suspect pairs are:
Antihero/GreyICE
DarlaBlueEyes/Llamarble
Nero Cain/xRECKONERx
Espeonage/Purple Orange
Less certain about #4. Not sure it matters at this point. And I hate secondguessing myself anyhow. Because I'm honestly not sure what I can do here. I'm not seeing any way to count 12 votes onto my suspects.

Incidentally, pairs I feel innocent:
Baby Spice/Kcdaspot
Haylen/silvador
Mariyta/Tragedy
Mist7676/vezokpiraka

[xRECKONERx]

Nero Cain/xRECKONERx

LOL

[Antihero]

ITT Kcdaspot has to get Baby Spice to confirm his cases so he doesn't look even scummier

Town lovers wouldn't do that
Scum lovers, however, would

And don't you just love how Baby Spice jumped on the first wagon to pop up?

Four pages ago when I called yourself and tragedy scum should have been an indication that a vote would be forthcoming.



However Espeonage, I think you're right and that Nero Cain has slipped big time. It's definately a slip too because his thought processes assumed that Kcd and myself were married not lovers, nor the parent/child relationship that I've been calling it. (Two of my kids are older than Kcd btw hence my description)

It's been xRECK appearing town that has made me think ignore NC's scumminess, but NC is getting worse in my opinion and now with that slip I think it's time we lynched NC. Soon.

Do you epically fail on purpose, or does it just come naturally?

[EmpTyger]

Townspeople:
Let's try this. Do the math.

There are 8 antitowns.
There are 14 townspeople.
12 votes are needed for a lynch.

Coasting is not an option. The numbers make it essentially impossible. You will not win unless you try.

The antitowns are ubercoordinated and have greater numbers than typical. They can easily dominate the thread and prevent the town from coordinating, prevent the town from thinking things through. Town cannot sit back and passively win this game. This isn't that kind of setup. This setup requires almost every protown player to actively compete. At least, if they want the the town to win.

So, townspeople, are we *all* going to try to win?

[silavor]

One flaw with your logic, the antitowns are divided and fighting against each other as well. I agree that we all need to try in order to win, but to say that there are 14 town and 12 needed to lynch makes it seem like we need to get all but two people (and coincidentally, we have two people not in the game who need replacements) on board to lynch scum, when we really just need to convince the majority of the town and the opposing scum team to lynch scum. It's a dire situation, yes, but not as hopeless as you make it out to be.

[Antihero]

Townspeople:
Let's try this. Do the math.

There are 8 antitowns.
There are 14 townspeople.
12 votes are needed for a lynch.

Coasting is not an option. The numbers make it essentially impossible. You will not win unless you try.

The antitowns are ubercoordinated and have greater numbers than typical. They can easily dominate the thread and prevent the town from coordinating, prevent the town from thinking things through. Town cannot sit back and passively win this game. This isn't that kind of setup. This setup requires almost every protown player to actively compete. At least, if they want the the town to win.

So, townspeople, are we *all* going to try to win?

Whatever.

I would ask you to explain your reads, but I think I'd just end up infuriated at the nonlogic you're most assuredly going to give me.

[Llamarble]

@Emptyger: You are basically telling everyone that lurking is antitown, which everyone already knows. But then the players you are expressing suspicion of are the ones who are being active (my pair excepted). And where are you hiding Thingyman? Him not posting makes it harder to read you both.

Silavor's stance on Reck, as pointed out by Dram, is really really weird. He votesat on Q21town all d1 until he got lynched because of Q21's double standard on sheeping/bandwagoning, but spent more time attacking Reck than he did attacking Q21. Then suddenly Reck is town and he doesn't even remember having thought Reck was scum? That just doesn't make sense to me. I believe scum are more likely to mysteriously abandon reads than town both because they're faking them. A larger QT with players more active than Haylen would also explain how his thoughts turned around without any outside signs of such.

VOTE: Silavor

Haylen didn't do much of note other than being angry with Reck and voting Q21.

[Baby Spice]

Either that, or the RL example was so strong in his mind it just carried over and overwrote ingame terminology. He still might be scum, but I don't think role PMs had anything to do with this. :/

Yet strangely I've been married for a lot longer and I bet I'm not the only one in this game who has.

If it wasn't someone I already thought was scummy it wouldn't matter so much but NC is being so scummy that it really just tips the balance. And unlike a few other people here NC doesn't seem to be one of the run of the mill scummyVI's.

[Llamarble]

More stuff:
Tragedy/Mariyta remain scummy. Mariyta's posting feels opportunistic. Their pair bandwagoned against Q21 and now against Kcd. Tragedy saying Umbrage (her top scumread) was making a good point that Vezok was scummy when she had expressed suspicion of Vezok earlier herself, but not pursuing a Vezok lynch any further, is rather strange. Strange for thinking top scumread is doing good scumhunting and for apparently forgetting she had already thought Vezok scummy and for not following up at all on Vezok then or today.

Kcdspice actually look a bit less scummy now that Kcdtown appears capable of "Reck is scummy for opinion on X" without bothering to read X. I don't like that their hammer votes on Q21 may have been made to save themselves though. The speed of that lynch unnerved me. And I am having difficulty making up my mind whether BS's exasperation with Kcd is an act or not. Asking KCD to examine ISOs of different players (or even just 1) and report back makes sense. I'd like to see the results of that.

I didn't see anything new from Espo that blatantly bothered me. I don't think Nero comparing lovers to married people is a scumtell, and I find Baby Spice noticing such completely reasonable.

[silavor]

V/LA till the 25th

Not really sure what to say, Llamarble. I would've gone after q21 more had he ever bothered to show his face in the early game. The bickering I did with Reck started out as a defense of Haylen, so it's not like I was going out of my way to get myself involved in the reck/kise thing in the first place. It's been about 30 pages since that argument, and more important things have happened since then that made Reck seem town to me. That's thirty pages of me thinking he's town, compared to maybe two where I thought there was a chance he was scummy. Sooorry for forgetting about a half-baked notion that never found anything of value from thirty pages ago.

[Purple Orange]

@Mod: err...can we get a replacement for the Haylen slot quickly? Thingyman would be nice too.

@ Emp:

why are you reading spice/kcda and mariyta/tragedy as town?

Kcdspice actually look a bit less scummy now that Kcdtown appears capable of "Reck is scummy for opinion on X" without bothering to read X.

...what? I'm confused. Is this a meta argument?

[Mariyta]

ITT Kcdaspot has to get Baby Spice to confirm his cases so he doesn't look even scummier

Town lovers wouldn't do that
Scum lovers, however, would

And don't you just love how Baby Spice jumped on the first wagon to pop up?

I'm loving every bit of this fallout. <3

And are you agreeing with Reck's point?

Of course. Baby Spice took the reprieve given to her partner and jumped on the first wagon to form. I haven't had a read on her to this point, but her recent play is deliciously scumalicious.

Basically it comes down to that for a pair that said next to nothing through day 1 while a town pair came under great scutiny coupled with an extreme change of tone come the new day when there is no sure lynch points to me like a scum couple that are trying to completely stay under the radar when they can and only popping in when they need to. if you want an example, take a look at mari's reactions just after the vote on her. Thick with omgus. It's like her play falls apart when there isn't a sure town lynch.

First, please explain how my play is falling apart. I'm pretty content with my play and this game right now (aside from the massive amount of lurkers). Second, if we wanted to "stay under the radar," we'd be doing much less. There are many teams out there who are less active than Tragedy and I (which is really sad, because we're not as active as some).

How the hell are you guys reading Nero's comment as a slip? Good Lord.

I also love how Llamarble calls me opportunistic. Let's go look at his votes, shall we?
Early vote on Umbrage
Then follows Umbrage and AH onto Emptyger, who was getting heavy suspicion at the time
Ooo, then he jumps onto the Kcda wagon, putting Kcda at 6 votes
He stayed off the q21 wagon, but happily declared that they were town. His "suspects" at this time were Kcda, Esp, and me/Tragedy (no surprise there, considering I've been going after him since the beginning).
He did grow a pair and place his own vote this morning, with semi-decent reasoning (most of it stolen from others).

And we've already explained Llamarble's point on Tragedy. Good play =/= Not scum. It has been mentioned, repeatedly, that there are two scum teams. One team can easily be hunting the other and make valid cases against them. We can agree with those cases and someone's reasoning, while still thinking they're scum.