Mini 1126 - Game over - Was Averagely Suspicious saved?

[RobCapone]

And that is a horrible role with a day 1 only restriction, I need to get on this setup review board cause I'd not let that role fly

[Ashblade]

If those posts are aggressive (I've pointed it out too) then I'm a hot head and Grey is the mother****ing Vulcan Raven from MGS.

[Erratus Apathos]

So what the hell? If I was a better vote than random, why did you random vote instead of voting me? Heck, why didn't you mention my post at all before saying Bill was right to attack me for it?

I knew people were going to pile on you for your pre-game post, and I think you deserved the scrutiny, but I felt no need to hop aboard your band wagon when it almost certainly wasn't going to amount to anything and others were going to say what needed to be said anyway.

So you're willing to be silent and let others talk for you if you can get away with it? I like where my vote is.

[Hiraki]

If you insist.

Bold: Nice job on Meta Telling

I happen to think this particular meta interpretation makes a certain amount of sense. It was, in fact, to scum's advantage to delay the start of the game, and Erratus admitted that he didn't vote to start the game. I don't think this is damning evidence against Erratus, but it is a bit fishy, and a better reason to cast a vote than is usually seen at this point in the game.

Italics: Decent Chance and voting. Ehehehemeee. No, this doesn't make any sense.

I already said this, but I think feeling that a person has a "decent chance" of being scum is more than enough reason to cast a vote against them. I don't consider Bill's vote or use of the word "decent" scummy or nonsensical.

Are you honestly going to tell me that you're more than "decently" sure of Bill's alignment?

Why didn't you write out your reasons out when you first FoS'd Barry?

1) Alright seriously? Errantus didn't score to start the game. Whooptedoo. If you can honestly tell me that it's a

small

scumtell, I'm going to murder you.

2) You're missing the point. Bill's case wasn't even decent. His entire post was based off the motive of Errantus' actions. FFS. I could be writing this because I'm scum and want to live. This isn't decent.

3) To be honest, I was hoping I could find some idiot to accuse me of voting with no reasoning, since Bill's first post already sucked. Didn't happen though.

[mockingjaye]

Hi. Sorry I'm late getting started. I'm catching up now and will post later this afternoon or evening.

[Erratus Apathos]

Subgenius' case on Hiraki doesn't feel unnatural to me. Hiraki has yet to explain why he didn't explain his FoS in the first post. It's perfectly plausible to mix Barry and Bill because of the similar usernames, but the main point of the issue seems to be that he didn't provide reasoning in the first post.

Hey Mr. Eyes, why do you feel the need to defend subgenius?

[subgenius]

So you're willing to be silent and let others talk for you if you can get away with it? I like where my vote is.

When I feel like the points to be made are blatantly obvious and wouldn't benefit from my input, yeah. You made a superficially scummy admission pre-game, everybody saw it, you got to L-1, you withstood the pressure, and the whole situation got the scum hunt rolling. It was a case that deserved to be made, but not a serious one. I thought it would be more interesting to start digging in a different direction.

1) Alright seriously? Errantus didn't score to start the game. Whooptedoo. If you can honestly tell me that it's a small scumtell, I'm going to murder you.

I'm not convinced it's a reliable scumtell, but it was a little scummy and deserved to be pursued.

2) You're missing the point. Bill's case wasn't even decent. His entire post was based off the motive of Errantus' actions. FFS. I could be writing this because I'm scum and want to live. This isn't decent

[in reference to Bill's vote] Decent Chance and voting. Ehehehemeee. No, this doesn't make any sense.

I guess I missed the point because you implied in your first post that it didn't make any sense to vote based on a "decent chance", not that voting based on assumed motivations makes no sense. I don't think these two quotes mean the same thing. Sorry that I can't read your thoughts. Again, this makes me feel like you're rewriting history.

3) To be honest, I was hoping I could find some idiot to accuse me of voting with no reasoning, since Bill's first post already sucked. Didn't happen though.

Are you talking about your vote for GreyICE or your FoS on Barry/Bill? I don't find it all that surprising that nobody cares about your apparently RV on GreyICE. If you mean the FoS, then someone did call you out, and it was me, ergo I'm an idiot, and now I feel bad. In any case, either you didn't address my question, or you answered in a way that seems specifically tailored to imply that I'm an idiot, which makes me less than inclined to take your answer seriously. I still consider the question unanswered.

[Hiraki]

My bad, that should be rephrased. Point 2 stands as is.

I was trying to get someone to vote for me because the FoS. And I did decently answer the question. It was scumbait.

[subgenius]

Scumbait is an easy and convenient excuse, and I don't see any evidence to make me believe you.

[Hiraki]

I honestly don't care if I please you anymore. Every mistake I've made I've gotten a "lol scum" from you.

[Erratus Apathos]

So you're willing to be silent and let others talk for you if you can get away with it? I like where my vote is.

When I feel like the points to be made are blatantly obvious and wouldn't benefit from my input, yeah. You made a superficially scummy admission pre-game, everybody saw it, you got to L-1, you withstood the pressure, and the whole situation got the scum hunt rolling. It was a case that deserved to be made, but not a serious one. I thought it would be more interesting to start digging in a different direction.

You thought it would be more interesting to vote Ash for making the 100th post than to vote me for a superficially scummy admission?

Four more votes on subscum please!

[subgenius]

You thought it would be more interesting to vote Ash for making the 100th post than to vote me for a superficially scummy admission?

Judging by where we are now, you can't say I was wrong.

[Erratus Apathos]

I can and I do.

[Papa Zito]

God this thread already.

BTW I started a new job Monday and they've blocked mafiascum soooooo crappy. If someone knows how to set up an at-home proxy PM plz.

Hi. Sorry I'm late getting started. I'm catching up now and will post later this afternoon or evening.

Holding you to this. Expecting miracles.

I support subgenius wagon btw.

tldr - looking at Bill and wikki right now. My inclination would be more voting Bill, but wikki's "if it will make you happy" posts keep nagging at something in the back of my brain...

Why aren't you voting one of them then.

[RobCapone]

^ iphone works

[wikkiden]

@ wikki - I am perplexed now

earlier you made this comment

o; Well this is my first game, technically. :3 I'm placed in a noobie game. But izzz too slow for meeeee. I play on epicmafia all the time though. My scumdar is top quality. >:]

but towards the beginning of confirmation stage you made this comment

I can't believe none of you remember me. V.V I guess I'm just the easy to forget type. *Sigh* /tear.

something doesn't sit right, either this is your first game or you are an alt and actually have been here a while, if you truly are new how would anyone remember you?

I am truly new, and the second comment you were referring to was sarcasm. Everyone was greeting everyone else and I felt left out. :3


And also, @Ashblade, yes, one of those posts was unlike the others because I truly do feel bad about it. But that doesn't mean I'm not going to try as hard as possible to grab my bearings and figure out who is scummy to the best of my ability. I'm aggressive where I come from, and I know I'm not displaying that much here. I'm still trying to figure out what playing style works best for me in forum-based mafia, and if I do want to be aggressive, I'm trying to figure out how to play with that aggressiveness.


And everyone that's saying I'm trying to use AtE, excuse me for being sincere. I could care less about appealing to anyone's emotion, I just like to own up to and take responsibility for my mistakes. And if you guys would all rather me play Bad Cop and yell in your faces, that can be arranged.



I would also like to point out that AshBlade has been EXTREMELY fickle. @Post #111, he jumped on a not-so-RVS wagon, understandable. @Post #142, he points out how I look scummy, points out how Barry looks scummy, and switches his vote to Hiraki. @Post#153, he adds to the offenses against me, and points out that he supports a Bill lynch. @Post #167, he continues to FoS Barry of lurking (After saying in Post 142 that he thought Barry was all over the place), and he switches his vote to Subgenius.

His statements are inconsistent with each other, he hasn't kept to the same FoS's for more than two posts in a row (Even after commenting on how FoS's were little more than a joke), he has brought suspicion against 6 out of the 13 people playing, and I have literally commented on every single post he has made, except for his most recent (Post#176), which is irrelevant at present. He has had nothing to say to help stir up discussion, nor has he said anything beneficial to the town. All he is doing is throwing out a few sentences on the many people who he has found to be acting scummy. He's going after the smallest scum-tells he can find.


I also think that Sub jumping on Zito just for stating his opinion is, if anything, simply meant to stir up conflict. Mafia is a game all about opinions, why shouldn't he be allowed to state his, even if he is stating it in the form of a fact? I see nothing wrong nor scummy about that.


Also,

@ Dekes, I UNVOTED: Erratus Apathos, sorry for not making that more clear.

Aww, crud! That was indeed quite a sneaky unvote there . Thank you and fixed.

[Barry Allen]

Ok, some thoughts here...

First, this from Ashblade responding to my earlier post:

Some quick notes:
3. @Ashblade - I would like more about how I'm "all over the place". I FoS'd someone and didn't vote only because of my massively stupid vote count...and voted as soon as that count was corrected. I haven't sent out other suspicions prior to this post, so I don't get your assessment. If you want all over the place, just read sub's posts.

I feel you will or are in the background, and trust me in that I already see sub.

Huh? Since I'm not "all over the place" in the thread, and you know it, when I call you on that claim you just say I "will be" or "are in the background"? Your explanation makes no sense, and raises my suspicions when it comes to you. Are you claiming to have ESP and somehow just "know" that I'm all over the place, or are you simply just stuck since you made a claim that you couldn't back up?

Now, a word from Papa Zito:

tldr - looking at Bill and wikki right now. My inclination would be more voting Bill, but wikki's "if it will make you happy" posts keep nagging at something in the back of my brain...

Why aren't you voting one of them then.

Here's where I'm stuck - Bill's earlier posts seem contradictory to me, and I had a bad vibe from his initial jumping on wikki. As for wikki - wikki may be new but some of the comments (especially the "if it will please you" with the unvote) just looks like a somewhat scummy attempt to please the town. Given that, I wasn't ready to choose between the two.

I am glad I've waited - Ashblade's reply to me looks rather bizarre and may send me in his direction with a vote instead of Bill or wikki, but I'd like to re-read and hopefully come back later tonight before giving it up for the evening. I've been working out of town the last couple of days (posted earlier today from the hotel) and just got back from a 6 hour drive home - really glad to be home.

[Barry Allen]

3) I have a one-shot power that allows me to choose three players, and one of them will be vigged at random. If I had to submit right now, whose names should I submit (brief explanation would be nice)?

Before I go to bed, I wanted to reply to this. If you really have this power, I don't think you should do this randomly - there should be some strategy that would allow us to learn something.

1. One direction would be to put in names that you are trying to choose between for the "most likely to be scum" award. That way, if one flips either town or scum you may have a better idea about the other (not guaranteed of course, but a better idea nonetheless). For example, if I were choosing I'd probably put Bill and wikki in together as two of the three, simply because at this point I think I might learn something from one of them flipping either town or maf.

2. You could choose another direction and simply pick three of the least actives...my usual worry D1 is that the real scum play lurky-loo while everyone else posts a lot and picks on each other all the way to a ML.

I'm sure there are other strategies to the selection process, but that's the first two that popped into my mind. The main point is that you choose with some plan in mind that gives you (and everyone) better insight than just a random vig shot. I'll give it some more thought after a good night's sleep.

[Papa Zito]

I am glad I've waited - Ashblade's reply to me looks rather bizarre and may send me in his direction with a vote instead of Bill or wikki, but I'd like to re-read and hopefully come back later tonight before giving it up for the evening.

Sooooooo you've identified now 3 potential Bad Guys and you're still not voting for any of them?

p-edit: Grey doesn't really have that power good grief.

[Ashblade]

And also, @Ashblade, yes, one of those posts was unlike the others because I truly do feel bad about it. But that doesn't mean I'm not going to try as hard as possible to grab my bearings and figure out who is scummy to the best of my ability. I'm aggressive where I come from, and I know I'm not displaying that much here. I'm still trying to figure out what playing style works best for me in forum-based mafia, and if I do want to be aggressive, I'm trying to figure out how to play with that aggressiveness.

Best way to prove it is showing it. This is my second game on this site, the first ongoing still. I really don't think you have anything to apologize for.

I would also like to point out that AshBlade has been EXTREMELY fickle. @Post #111, he jumped on a not-so-RVS wagon, understandable. @Post #142, he points out how I look scummy, points out how Barry looks scummy, and switches his vote to Hiraki. @Post#153, he adds to the offenses against me, and points out that he supports a Bill lynch. @Post #167, he continues to FoS Barry of lurking (After saying in Post 142 that he thought Barry was all over the place), and he switches his vote to Subgenius.

His statements are inconsistent with each other, he hasn't kept to the same FoS's for more than two posts in a row (Even after commenting on how FoS's were little more than a joke), he has brought suspicion against 6 out of the 13 people playing, and I have literally commented on every single post he has made, except for his most recent (Post#176), which is irrelevant at present. He has had nothing to say to help stir up discussion, nor has he said anything beneficial to the town. All he is doing is throwing out a few sentences on the many people who he has found to be acting scummy. He's going after the smallest scum-tells he can find.

My votes are fickle day 1, at least until better stuff comes up. Don't get me wrong though, the things I note do not simply go away. This thread is my notepad with my thoughts as I bring them up. I will give off what I find weird, suspicious, and different but not call it a fos. FOSes are often not counted anyway (You can call my suspicions FOSes if you want, I just won't call them foses). With that said, sub has my vote at this time and I don't imagine I'll be moving it for a while yet.

...

Alright, I'll try to explain it slowly.

1. When you began today with the wagon on EA you were acting like he had gotten to L-1.
2. When you see that you can vote you do and then start wondering about even that, asking for 'wait, is that right?' kind of thing. In my eyes I see the beginning of someone who is going to go sort of "hmm, maybe I should vote" or more use words without putting their actions where it is. Maybe "all over the place" isn't quite the right way to describe it but let's say that I can feel in my gut that you will probably act... maybe its hesitant in the future. (which, btw, you are right NOW with your 3 suspects and not a single one of them holding your vote.)

Yeah, I'm going to answer accusations. I guess that makes me scum. I feel like I've explained any "contradictions," but if you've got anything specific to cite, please do so. I'll answer your questions, which will be win/win, since I'll have a chance to explain myself, and apparently by offering explanations, I'll be outing myself as scum. I also find it amusing that I'm being accused of "being all over the place" when I've kept my vote in the same place after my RV and only referenced two players as possible scum.

Way to stretch what I mean. Simply put there are always a bunch of small things someone does that add up, and then your threat, oh your threat.

1. You agreed with the EA wagon but decided it would be better to random vote me. You've already explained this but that doesn't mean that it shouldn't at least be put up there to note. That's the contradiction.
2. "All over the place" is EA yet not on EA, to Hiraki for his fos and vote, to Zito just because of his comment that EA was town. (and let the record show that if/when I decide to call someone town with little doubt you've threatened to vote me as well) YOU look like you want to keep your options open to me with this one and don't have the guts to call someone town.
3. The thing that really changed my mind is that Zito would be voted just because he declared someone town. It happens all the time in these games and just because someone says it doesn't mean it will stick around forever. The thought that you would actually entertain a vote to such a comment is laughable.

---

Also since when does a role like the one Grey 'claimed' exist in any game that dares to call itself "normal"? I can't people people are actually entertaining its existence.

[GreyICE]

You thought it would be more interesting to vote Ash for making the 100th post than to vote me for a superficially scummy admission?

Judging by where we are now, you can't say I was wrong.

Oh dear, you seem to have missed my questions, scum.

[Barry Allen]

...

Alright, I'll try to explain it slowly.

1. When you began today with the wagon on EA you were acting like he had gotten to L-1.
2. When you see that you can vote you do and then start wondering about even that, asking for 'wait, is that right?' kind of thing. In my eyes I see the beginning of someone who is going to go sort of "hmm, maybe I should vote" or more use words without putting their actions where it is. Maybe "all over the place" isn't quite the right way to describe it but let's say that I can feel in my gut that you will probably act... maybe its hesitant in the future. (which, btw, you are right NOW with your 3 suspects and not a single one of them holding your vote.)

OK, Ashblade, please allow ME to explain this slowly...and please in your future posts don't confuse sarcasm and condescension for actually making a logical argument...

My first post made an argument regarding voting EA, withholding my vote only because of my miscount - I didn't want to put someone at L-1 that early in the round. I don't call that "hesitance" btw - I call that not placing us in the position of a quickhammer from a scum in case we were wrong. As soon as my count was corrected, I put my vote where my mouth was and voted that same suspicion. That is not "all over the place" - it is in fact consistent, and you know it. Further, it is not logical to use posts made well after the fact as "proof" of your earlier claims. The truth is you are making claims you cannot back up. You could have simply said you were wrong - I've certainly done that very thing when it comes to my earlier miscount of the vote. Instead, you keep changing your terms (from "all over the place" to "hesitance") and redefining what you consider "facts" in order to continue a very poor argument.

As for my not voting again yet - I will take care of that later today. Unlike you, my votes are not "fickle day 1" as you said to wikki. I was on the road working yesterday and drove 6 hours to get home - when I get past some home office work today I'll re-read and cast that vote. I don't consider that a bad thing in a round with a PC set for March - and no, I won't wait for March, just until later today.

[subgenius]

1. You agreed with the EA wagon but decided it would be better to random vote me. You've already explained this but that doesn't mean that it shouldn't at least be put up there to note. That's the contradiction.
2. "All over the place" is EA yet not on EA, to Hiraki for his fos and vote, to Zito just because of his comment that EA was town. (and let the record show that if/when I decide to call someone town with little doubt you've threatened to vote me as well) YOU look like you want to keep your options open to me with this one and don't have the guts to call someone town.
3. The thing that really changed my mind is that Zito would be voted just because he declared someone town. It happens all the time in these games and just because someone says it doesn't mean it will stick around forever. The thought that you would actually entertain a vote to such a comment is laughable.

1. Reasonable, but not quite right. I recognized that there was justification for an EA bandwagon and that it would serve the purpose of getting the ball rolling, but also felt like it wouldn't ultimately lead anywhere or benefit from my presence.
2. I was never on EA, I just think that those who jumped on him were acting rationally and predictably. I've consistently said that EA's pre-game admission was a bit fishy, but I didn't take it very seriously. Hiraki has been my main pursuit, Zito was an aside that was blown out of proportion since people have decided that it was out of line. I feel like I've been pretty focused on Hiraki. No, I'm not going to call anyone town. I might have my guesses, but that's the as far as it goes. I think it's silly to think any differently.
3. Honestly, I haven't played in awhile, and what you're saying about Zito type comments might be true. Although it is scumtell #5 according to https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... ding_Mafia. I'll readily admit that I haven't played or read as many games as you probably have so it's entirely possible I'm way off base on this one.

Oh dear, you seem to have missed my questions, scum.

If you're addressing your list of questions to someone in particular maybe you should quote them or address them with your list, and don't call me scum, jerk.

1. Strikes me as a player that mistakes impulsiveness for aggressiveness and is unwilling to stand behind actions after he's questioned because there wasn't much reason for them in the first place.

2. I'm not going to re-read a whole game for some quiz you made up, but I think Rob has been reasonably active. I'm not particularly persuaded by meta arguments. Even if he was lurking in a similar way as he was in in his scum game, there's no way to know why.

3. First let the record show that I understand the concept of hypothetical questions and don't actually believe you're claiming to have this power. Some people...
Hiraki-well documented
Papa Vito-I'm not as sure on this one as I was earlier, but he'd still probably make the list.
Bill-because I think his flip would be more educational than most other players.

[RobCapone]

Subs, play more, read wiki less

those scum tells became invalid the moment they were posted

unvote, vote subs

I have been trying to tell if subs was just newbish cause he sounds alot like how I played when I first joined, but seeing he has been here since 2008(regardless if he "hasn't played in a while") he should not be playing like this if he is town, so I have to assume he probably isn't and just trying to play it off that isn't working.

[subgenius]

I've played a grand total of two games in that time, but hop aboard the wagon anyway. There's still more room.