Newbie 1060: It's a Murder Mystery (Game Over)

[Equinox]

Vote Count 1.09

Mhi200 (2) - Primate, mb53
snowjorden (2) - GreyICE, Otolia
Voidedmafia (1) - snowjorden

Not Voting (4) - Zensei, Voidedmafia, Sarg338, Mhi200

With 9 alive, it's 5 to lynch.

The deadline is Friday, March 4, 2011, at 11:59 PM EST (UTC-5).

[Otolia]

My synthesis work isn't finished, and the one I have been particularly monitoring are Sarg338, VoidedMafia, Snowjorden and Primate. This is why I didn't elaborate that much on you, Zensei, Mhi, and mb. Don't worry that will come.

In the mean time, you could have notice that I also describe you as "being in control of the game" which you didn't feel to answer.

I don't really feel the need to answer it. I've made my points and made my suggestions, but at no point do I think I'm really trying to lead the town around by the nose or something.

In any case, I'm just wondering what your thought processes were, because I find your reads very interesting.

And why don't you feel the need not to answer it ? Aura of Sanctity ? If that's the case you have the same defense as snowjorden as in here And if you remember well, you would have notice that you did point that scummy behavior of snowjorden yourself.

Were you wondering or are you still wondering ? The only thing you can read from what I posted is that I am pro-active which is in every case mostly Pro-Town. I made a small synthesis, pick the most scummy and work to get him lynch. But you maybe want to take Snowjorden's place on the lynching seat ?

[Sarg338]

Well, how do you want to to prove he knwos me? I mean, Parama, Sarg, and I know each from scorehero.com, and if you look over some of our conversations in the newbie queue, you can see that we're talking about an even on that forum (namely Scorehero Mafia, which I believe is a kind of open game).

If anything, just go to http://www.scorehero.com and look up Sarg338 (I think) and Voidedalive2x.

You are not the one targeted here, I want a proof by Sarg that you know each other from that game. You defend someone that might use your friendship as a cover for scuminess (no offense here). You attitude in this answer is overall counter productive for the town. And btw, I can't find anyone (neither you nor Sarg there)

Ummm Hai.

Not sure why that matters.

[Voidedmafia]

Well, how do you want to to prove he knwos me? I mean, Parama, Sarg, and I know each from scorehero.com, and if you look over some of our conversations in the newbie queue, you can see that we're talking about an event on that forum (namely Scorehero Mafia, which I believe is a kind of open game).

If anything, just go to http://www.scorehero.com and look up Sarg338 (I think) and Voidedalive2x.

You are not the one targeted here, I want a proof by Sarg that you know each other from that game. You defend someone that might use your friendship as a cover for scuminess (no offense here). You attitude in this answer is overall counter productive for the town. And btw, I can't find anyone (neither you nor Sarg there)

Spoiler:

If you'd visited the site, you'd realize that SH isn't centered around Mafia at all, but rather Guitar Hero and Rock Band, and that game is how we know each other because we've both commented on each other's accompishments and/or post in each others' acc. threads. And I did tell you what names to look for (I've got different names so there isn't an easy connection between these two sites. Parama and sarg can indeed confirm that Voidedalive2x is me if you ask them. I also believe that sarg's name is the same on both sites, though you might have to check the Rock Band side of the site for him.).

Preview Edit: Well, Sarg answered that.

And...

HEY! I take offense at being gullible!

You are gullible, you accepted the proof of GeryICE far too easily. And though you are being overall Pro-Town, that was not the thing to do. You gave up your clue far too easily. It was D1 so you have to pressure someone hard to get things going.
The game has been going on for long enough, it is time to end day one as soon a Zensei or his replacement comes in. And as stated in my previous post, I think the most easy choice for us is Snowjorden. Thus I recommend you to follow that advice. I can do an ISO if necessary but this day the town has been unproductive so far and I wish we could change that.

Spoiler:

Remind me what proof of GreyICE are you talking about again? It may just be that I can't quite understand what that sentence is supposed to read because "proof of GreyICE" just doesn't sound right grammatically. Are you talking about why I pressured him on that naked vote?

Also, snowjordan, mhi, what's your reads on the new guy?

He's pretty dead on at least that Zensei and Primate NEED to stop lurking right the hell now.

Spoiler:

I readily and whole-heartedly agree on this point. Now that it's February the 18th, Zensei should have no reason to NOT post unless he's just not home.

Quote tags corrected. (Equinox)

[Sarg338]

Oh, and I RVS'd Voided because... well, it was RVS and I knew him from Scorehero. Keep it cool buddy !

[Voidedmafia]

Oh, and I RVS'd Voided because... well, it was RVS and I knew him from Scorehero. Keep it cool buddy !

Spoiler:

And I did likewise for the very same reason.

[GreyICE]

And why don't you feel the need not to answer it ? Aura of Sanctity ? If that's the case you have the same defense as snowjorden as in here And if you remember well, you would have notice that you did point that scummy behavior of snowjorden yourself.

Were you wondering or are you still wondering ? The only thing you can read from what I posted is that I am pro-active which is in every case mostly Pro-Town. I made a small synthesis, pick the most scummy and work to get him lynch. But you maybe want to take Snowjorden's place on the lynching seat ?

Hmm. I am the one running the town, yet you are telling me that you can assemble five votes to lynch me if I don't start behaving the way you want. Do you suppose that this should scare town? Is it because you are scared of it yourself?

[Otolia]

Oh, and I RVS'd Voided because... well, it was RVS and I knew him from Scorehero. Keep it cool buddy !

And I did likewise for the very same reason.

But VoidedMafia isn't the one suspected here, my reasoning is : you RVS your buddy knowing that it won't have any consequences. After the RVS you Unvote and wagonned Zensei, vote that you cancelled because of his absence. Vote-hopping ? Wish Wash ?

Anyhow you aren't pro-active enough after the RVS to whip the suspicion I have, whereas Voided only answered to your RVS and has been much more active in the scumhunt as your are.

As for the proof, I am willing to trust Voided though the best proff would have been a topic where you two posted in SH.

And why don't you feel the need not to answer it ? Aura of Sanctity ? If that's the case you have the same defense as snowjorden as in here And if you remember well, you would have notice that you did point that scummy behavior of snowjorden yourself.

Were you wondering or are you still wondering ? The only thing you can read from what I posted is that I am pro-active which is in every case mostly Pro-Town. I made a small synthesis, pick the most scummy and work to get him lynch. But you maybe want to take Snowjorden's place on the lynching seat ?

Hmm. I am the one running the town, yet you are telling me that you can assemble five votes to lynch me if I don't start behaving the way you want. Do you suppose that this should scare town? Is it because you are scared of it yourself?

Where did you read that I can assemble 5 votes ? Don't transform my writings. I mean what I said as : " Do you want to be the one that I targeted ? " Question that you don't answer once again. Counter-attacking with questions is fine but sometimes it doesn't work.

So I say we make a pact, you answer mine I answer yours. Deal ?

[GreyICE]

Where did you read that I can assemble 5 votes ? Don't transform my writings. I mean what I said as : " Do you want to be the one that I targeted ? " Question that you don't answer once again. Counter-attacking with questions is fine but sometimes it doesn't work.

So I say we make a pact, you answer mine I answer yours. Deal ?

Yes to both. I very much would like to be the one you target now. You think I'm scum, so I'm very curious as to the reasonings.

As to the five votes, you said that I would be the one in the lynching seat. I am assuming that still requires five votes? You and four others?

[Sarg338]

Oh, and I RVS'd Voided because... well, it was RVS and I knew him from Scorehero. Keep it cool buddy !

And I did likewise for the very same reason.

But VoidedMafia isn't the one suspected here, my reasoning is : you RVS your buddy knowing that it won't have any consequences. After the RVS you Unvote and wagonned Zensei, vote that you cancelled because of his absence. Vote-hopping ? Wish Wash ?

As for the proof, I am willing to trust Voided though the best proff would have been a topic where you two posted in SH.

doing this from my phone, so forgive me for any mistakes.

Is RVS suppose to have consequences? It was a random vote on someone I know from another site. Your case on that is just stupid.

Wish-washy? No. zensei is V/LA, so I took my vote off him. Problem?

I posted a link to both of our accounts. If you don't take that as proof, then so be it. I have no reason to go through the site and find a topic where we both posted in. look for it yourself if you really need to see one.

[Otolia]

Hmm. I am the one running the town, yet you are telling me that you can assemble five votes to lynch me if I don't start behaving the way you want. Do you suppose that this should scare town? Is it because you are scared of it yourself?

I don't know what I could be possibly scared of, nobody except you as even the small interesst so far in lynching me (Though you will probably use this post to propose that idea )

And I don't think that telling my thoughts should scare anyone. People don't like to be manipulated so my assumption is more likely to back-fire since most people won't admit to themselves such a fact. But more precisely, I had the feeling that you control what happen through your writing skills and numerous well-placed posts. It doesn't mean you are scum, but I'd like to see you more in global scum-hunting than just playing like a freelancer. That said, I can't deny that you are doing a pro-town job with me right now.

I am assuming that still requires five votes? You and four others?

Since it's a question, I should answer it : Yes, a lynch requires 5 votes.

Is RVS suppose to have consequences? It was a random vote on someone I know from another site.

Your case on that is just stupid

.

RVS can have consequences, but you didn't go further than that, thus you seems more like a scum.
In

red

another case of pointless aggressiveness. I don't know how you behave IRL, but I ask you to stop doing that. My post wasn't stupid, it had a purpose, and it's not because you can't understand it that it is stupid.

Wish-washy? No. zensei is V/LA, so I took my vote off him. Problem?

Who seems scummy for you right now ?

I posted a link to both of our accounts. If you don't take that as proof, then so be it. I have no reason to go through the site and find a topic where we both posted in. look for it yourself if you really need to see one.

As you wish.

[Sarg338]

In

red

another case of pointless aggressiveness. I don't know how you behave IRL, but

I ask you to stop doing that

. My post wasn't stupid, it had a purpose, and it's not because you can't understand it that it is stupid.

You can ask all you want, doesn't mean I'll stop

ohay, a shot at my intelligence. Cool story bro.

Who is scummy? Well, I'll save that for over the weekend when I re-read the thread.

[GreyICE]

I don't know what I could be possibly scared of, nobody except you as even the small interesst so far in lynching me (Though you will probably use this post to propose that idea )

And I don't think that telling my thoughts should scare anyone. People don't like to be manipulated so my assumption is more likely to back-fire since most people won't admit to themselves such a fact. But more precisely, I had the feeling that you control what happen through your writing skills and numerous well-placed posts. It doesn't mean you are scum, but I'd like to see you more in global scum-hunting than just playing like a freelancer. That said, I can't deny that you are doing a pro-town job with me right now.

Heh, I like you already. You noticed I've been guiding the discussion, and called me on it, and then correctly judged my motives after pushing me to see what I intended. You have different reads than me, but that doesn't make me right and you wrong. Threatening people can produce results, but be careful. Especially in a newbie town it can backfire, and there's quite a few scum players who've made it a habit to try and guide the town. They typically get lynched around day 3 when someone realizes what's going on, but by then they've left such a mess that their partner (or partners, if it's not a newbie) can carry the rest of the game.

You don't seem to have that intention, you seem to want to push an agenda that's protown.

Time for some cards on the table, I owe people a reads list:

Town

Voided Mafia

I have got to admit, I've been nosing around voided for a while, trying to suss him out. However, he's very, very linear and does not like to question what's beneath the surface. Voided, be careful with that. That's going to KILL you in LyLo situations, since LyLo is where everything becomes a total mess. To quote the wiki, frequently the way to find scum in 3 man LyLo is to vote for the person you think is most town. Things become much, much weirder. Question assumptions. Question everything. If you think someone is scum, stop, reread, ask yourself what's going on and what else is sliding. This is a game of total deception - wipe your slate blank. If you say "Olivia is def. town" stop, reread, and imagine Olivia is scum. If you see 3 people of varying degrees of scumminess posting a lot, and 1 person who you haven't seen much of, but seems vaguely town, stop, reread, ask where they are. Watch our bandwagons. We haven't had a competitor to the SnowJordan wagon. If it's a scum wagon, why? Are they that ineffective? Is he being bussed? Is he town and they're content to let him be mislynched? Watch frequent V/LAs. Tunnel only to the extent necessary.

Also, read more, write less. One effective paragraph is worth more than an entire wall. I've nearly gotten someone lynched before with a three sentence post (I'll link to the game when it's over).

Sarg

His posting is just too natural. Too, too natural. For a newbie, that's very hard to fake. Try faking jokes and banter when you have to fake scumhunting and fake town reads. This takes an accomplished poster. You have great Town instincts, and I am quite willing to bet that you're horrible obvscum when you pull the scum PM. If you've managed to fake me out, that's incredible.

Leaning Town

Otolia

Yeah, you got there in less posts than anyone except Sarg. And you're a good player. Please stick around, you will be a lot of fun. I appreciate how much effort you put into replacing in. This is not buddying, feel free to keep thinking of me as scum

If you're scum, you probably have the best scumgame out of anyone here. That doesn't make you scummy, FYI, it just means you get more scrutiny than, say, Sarg.

Zensei

I stand by what I said before. We called him on not liking his "scummy" playing style, and he explained what he was doing, and told us he didn't find any advantage to altering his playstyle to make us happy. That is such a goddamn town response. Good scum can fake it, bad scum can insult you and yell at you, or start apologizing. I'm gonna just drop him in the town bucket.

Meh

(yes, this is a category)

mb53

Townish, with ONE caveat - he's never parked his vote on SnowJordan, and ISO #12 reads like an ugly piece of distancing with no vote switch. At the time of that, he was voting for Sarg. In fact, he floats off Snow fairly quickly and goes after Mhi. This is still townish behavior due to Mhi's posts - unless Snow flips scum. Then he needs a SERIOUS second look.

Primate

I typically don't like to lynch the IC on day 1 because first, I think the play experience is worse for everyone, and second, the IC is under pressure that usually only scum is under - they have to alter their playstyle to guide newbies through the town. He has a lot of power to push the discussion in certain directions, which can wreck the play experience, and kill the town. Even if he's right, he gets NKed night 1/2, and then the town is left without any real leadership. Plus, townies turn on ICs that have mislead them - they're more experienced. They should know whether the person was scum! So they alter their playstyle and filter their opinions in a way that's going to make them scummy.

Fun fact: It's actually harder to find scum in newbie games. You're ALL slightly scummy to very, very scummy. (well, except Olivia). And this? This is

one of the best newbie towns I've ever seen.

You have no idea how bad it can get.

That being said, LUUUURRRRRKKKKKKK

Scummy

Mhi200

http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 3#p2799983

Goddamn it that post just tells me he hasn't been reading the game. Could mean he's really bad at scumhunting. Could mean he already knows who the scum is, and doesn't need to read. His lack of jumping to defense of SnowJordan, or anything really related to Snow could be distancing. And it could be newbieness.

Scummy scum

Snowjordan

My initial impression of him trying to fit in stands. My impression of him being insanely defensive and threatening the town (if you lynch me, you lose!) stands. Since the wagon on him died down, he's been lurking - he hasn't made a real post since thursday. I really want to know why he comes off well to primate, because that just hurts me inside.

[GreyICE]

*I meant to say that Snowjordan hasn't made a real post since TUESDAY, not THURSDAY. Fail

[Sarg338]

Can we get a

Prod: SnowJordan

? Been close to 2.5 days since his last post.

Thanks.

Done. (Equinox)

[GreyICE]

Can we get a

Prod: SnowJordan

? Been close to 2.5 days since his last post.

Thanks.

Done. (Equinox)

He posted this amazing prod dodge on Wednesday:

Wed Feb 16, 2011 1:20 am
^ quick note before i go have a smoke ..you TOLD me to be defensive. Lol..

So it's more like 36 hours, which shouldn't be in prod range. That being said, textbook prod dodge post

[Sarg338]

So it's more like 36 hours, which shouldn't be in prod range. That being said, textbook prod dodge post

No, it's been alot longer than 36 hours.

snowjorden 2011-02-16 01:20:07 2 days 10 hours

Even by the time stamp, I can still tell it was longer than 36 hours.

[GreyICE]

Oh right, activity overview. Good catch.

[mb53]

Well I have to disagree with ICE. I find (*scrolls up to look at name*) Oto very scummy. In fact, new #1.

Unvote, Vote: Oto

Read his posts again. See that he is pretty concerned whether people think he is pro-town or not. Only scum should really be worried about that.

In red another case of pointless aggressiveness. I don't know how you behave IRL, but I ask you to stop doing that. My post wasn't stupid, it had a purpose, and it's not because you can't understand it that it is stupid.

Funny, I thought it was pretty stupid too. Cases with something that happened in RVS are usually BS. And I don't know how whether Sarg and voided really know each other would change anything (besides, its pretty obvious they do).

Also (this is irrelevant but I wanted to comment)

Fun fact: It's actually harder to find scum in newbie games

This is very true (at least I say it is) because it is so hard to tell the difference between a scum tell or a newbie tell.

[Equinox]

Lady Lambdadelta replaces Zensei! Thank you!

[GreyICE]

LLDchan!

[Sarg338]

Whoa, I thought Zensei was V/LA until today? What happened?

Zensei sent me a PM yesterday requesting replacement. (Equinox)

[Voidedmafia]

Town

Voided Mafia

I have got to admit, I've been nosing around voided for a while, trying to suss him out. However, he's very, very linear and does not like to question what's beneath the surface. Voided, be careful with that. That's going to KILL you in LyLo situations, since LyLo is where everything becomes a total mess. To quote the wiki, frequently the way to find scum in 3 man LyLo is to vote for the person you think is most town. Things become much, much weirder. Question assumptions. Question everything. If you think someone is scum, stop, reread, ask yourself what's going on and what else is sliding. This is a game of total deception - wipe your slate blank. If you say "Olivia is def. town" stop, reread, and imagine Olivia is scum. If you see 3 people of varying degrees of scumminess posting a lot, and 1 person who you haven't seen much of, but seems vaguely town, stop, reread, ask where they are. Watch our bandwagons. We haven't had a competitor to the SnowJordan wagon. If it's a scum wagon, why? Are they that ineffective? Is he being bussed? Is he town and they're content to let him be mislynched? Watch frequent V/LAs. Tunnel only to the extent necessary.

Also, read more, write less. One effective paragraph is worth more than an entire wall. I've nearly gotten someone lynched before with a three sentence post (I'll link to the game when it's over).

Spoiler:

I will admit that I don't have an aptitude for reading between the lines, but I do know about what you're saying here.

Quote tag corrected. (Equinox)

[Voidedmafia]

Spoiler:

Two replacements on D1? This is going to be fun...

[Sarg338]

Spoiler:

Two replacements on D1? This is going to be fun...

3, if you count ICE replacing in at the very beginning.