A Storm of Swords - Lay your swords down!

[Shadow1psc]

Thought: Would a dayvig action have to be submitted in the thread, like

Dayvig: Xotxm

or could it be accepted via pm?

[Shadow1psc]

Also, I get the concept of neighbor, but isn't neighbor almost always for the purpose of confirmable town(lannister) purposes? Giving scum(Stark) that ability seems... messed up.

[LimMePls]

Thought: Would a dayvig action have to be submitted in the thread, like

Dayvig: Xotxm

or could it be accepted via pm?

...Obviously not since it just happened without that.

[LimMePls]

Also, I get the concept of neighbor, but isn't neighbor almost always for the purpose of confirmable town(lannister) purposes? Giving scum(Stark) that ability seems... messed up.

You are confusing neighbor with mason. Mason is a QT group where the members of the QT know each others alignment. Neighbor is a special QT group where the members of the group do NOT know each others alignment. It can be a town or scum ability. The town application would be for the town neighborizer to identify other town reads, and gain a QT with them, to get better reads on each other and to discuss things. The scum application would be for a scum neighborizer to try and get a feel for their target, perhaps try and convince them they are town, while trying to influence their opinions on others as well. I was a town neighborizer in ACOK, so I guess Faraday/Seacore wanted to play with the idea of giving the scumz a neigbhorizer.

Is there any particular reason you feel this is important to the game, or can we let it go now?

[DrippingGoofball]

I shall now shut up about hascow.

[Shadow1psc]

Unless there's some other kind of role with a day kill. I mean, just wild speculation and extreme left field, but I like to think outside the box.

[Shadow1psc]

The only time I've seen neighbor it was a confirmable town role. It wasn't about creating a QT between two people, it was so one could simply wave at anyone to 'prove' their alignment at night. Though I guess that's the distinction between 'friendly neighbor' and 'neighbors' now?

[Shadow1psc]

It pretty much boils down to my initial question, and metaing the role name. Catelyn? neighbou

riser

?

[MagnaofIllusion]

It pretty much boils down to my initial question, and metaing the role name. Catelyn? neighbou

riser

?

I think that you need to stop going wild on this.

A Neighbor is a role that is Mod given at the start of the day to at least 2 players who can Talk in a QT and do not know each other's alignment.

A Neigbhorizer traditionally is a role that allows the player to open a Neighbor QT with a target player at Night. Thus the player gets to choose who to talk with in QT.

A Mason is similarly a Mod given role with predetermined other players, all of whom (in non-bastard games) are alignment confirmed to each other.

A Masonizer is a role that allows a player to establish a Mason QT with a player, which includes Mod confirmation of alignment. Traditionally Masonizers fail if they target scum and thus are weak cops.

[Shadow1psc]

Oh. I've never heard of 'isor', thus my question(s)

[Locke Lamora]

Townly
GreyICE
Magua
Twighlight
Chesskid
Feysal
Zoraster

Scummy
Mikujin
Benmage
Shadow

My guess is there is a stark on these lists, possible one on each.

Unvote
Vote: Zoraster

Unvote; Vote: Mikujin

Especially because Xtoxm included Mikujin on that list only a few posts after both Grey and myself had called Miku out for his 'reserved' play.

[Magua]

As people were discussing who to lynch a body was found! Someone was dead. It was Xtoxm,

Xtoxm -

Catelyn Stark - Stark Neighbouriser

was killed day 1

Day continues, with 24 alive it still takes 13 to lynch. Vote count stays as is, will have an updated vote count in a second.

Holy shit, this setup is messing with me, because I spent five minutes writing a screed about "I told you so, now we won't learn diddly squat with a town flip" before the "Duh" moment.

Then I groaned at the title of the thread.

Ooops. You're right. I got you and Magua mixed up in this case. My bad.

What is your opinion of Magna now?

@Zoraster:

Answer, please.

Also, in a note to Xtoxm's posts, I read them as buddying GreyICE (reinforcing my townread) and trying to get xvart lynched (since he was placing the fifth vote on xvart -- way too early for a bus).

Of his town list, I am looking at TwilightSparkle or Zoraster for the scum.

[MagnaofIllusion]

I’m pulling together the three working lists we have to see what commonalities they might share –

Xtoxm’s list via LMP –

Townly
GreyICE
Magua
Twighlight
Chesskid
Feysal
Zoraster

Scummy
Mikujin
Benmage
Shadow

DGB’s list of early Shadow wagon voters

–

Hasdgfas, zoraster, Twilight Sparkle, Mikujin

My list of Post Grey’s bad tell Xvart voters

–

GreyICE, Raivann, Xtoxm, Dana

Commonalities found and other information

–

Players found at least two places: DTM (GreyICE), TwilightSparkle, Zoraster, Mikujin.

I already have a vote on Zoraster for other reasons and feel stronger about my suspicions based on these lists and that Zoraster was specifically in Xtoxm’s Town list.

I also think that the fact that Xtoxm has flipped scum means that Raivann and dana are less likely to be Starks. I don’t think it likely that scumbuddies would hop together so closely on the Xvart wagon. Depending on the set-up they certainly can be scum aligned with another faction if we are in multi-scum, but I don’t seem them as probable Starks.

--

Even if we don't literally vote on who to dayvig, there is merit in discussing and presenting arguments for who the target should be. It is no different from normal scumhunting really, and every stance we get before the execution happens is more information for later. I don't see a downside.

Again, I see no upside. You aren’t getting any more information out of discussing who to Dayvig than you already are in discussion who to lynch. People are free to discuss multiple scummy players regardless of whether we have a publicly disclosed Dayvig or not.

Cow taking the shot (assuming it was him) so quickly gives us time to discuss the outcome and still pursue a solid Day 1 lynch with foreknowledge that we have time to readjust come claim time, if necessary.

[DTMaster]

Oh nice checking in. I'm going to be behind till Sat/Sunday for the reread. Note to self: Look at Xotom's voting pattern and take account now that he fliped Stark scumz (but the Starks are totally the heros in the book v.v. well... meh there's no defined good or evil with some characters). I kinda see MoI starting this. Since this is day 1, it's very likely that we have distancing here so that should be taken account. Usually I'd expect a 2:1 ratio on scum attacking town and 1 scum bussing all the time (just typical strats).

Also some notes that I'm skimming:
While it's worthwhile for you to outline your dayvig targets, the day vig obviously has the final say. I usually say: I like X killed, Y lynched, and Z investigated. but its up to his discretion :p

[hasdgfas]

@Cow

- Please confirm that Xtoxm's dead body is the result of your actions.

*nods head*

*hesitates*


*points at own eyes*
*points at everyone*

I interpret this so that you did not want us to vote on who to dayvig, you wanted to hear our cases and arguments, since several pairs of eyes see more than just yours. Was that right? Not that it matters any more if Xtoxm was your kill.

*nods*

[Shadow1psc]

good job hasvig. Posting restriction be damned. This makes me want to kill GreyIce's slot more, but, could simply be WIFOM.

[Kast]

@LL-
I haven't read any of your recent games. If you can link to some town games where you demonstrate a playstyle closer to your current one than what I recall, that would be appreciated.

@Dayvig-
Good call cow.

Xtoxm's town list makes Zoraster a more appealing target. I'll keep my vote there.

@Mod-

Not going to be around til Tuesday. Then I will probably be out of the country for business starting either Thursday or Friday and ongoing for 1-2 weeks. I should have internet access during the trip, but it will be limited.

[chesskid3]

good shot.

I'll stop tunneling on MoI now, but he's 100% scum >_>

[Raivann]

unraise. Raise: Magua
Unvote, vote: zoraster

Will post morre later .

[Shadow1psc]

unraise. Raise: Magua
Unvote, vote: zoraster

Will post morre later .

... kill it.

[diddin]

unraise. Raise: Magua
Unvote, vote: zoraster

Will post morre later .

This looks like bussing to me.

zoraster ISO 23 also looks like "Vote: townie FoS: scumbuddy" to me. He expresses suspicion on Raivann there but then, in ISO 25, he goes back and says he doesn't recall seeing a good case on Raivann. He then finally jumps on the wagon a few posts later, albeit with a fair explanation.

I like zoraster for a potential Raivann buddy, but since what I feel about him relies a lot on Raivann's alignment, I want to lynch Raivann first.

@Magna a few pages ago: Take a look at my ISO 4.

[Feysal]

Again, I see no upside. You aren't getting any more information out of discussing who to Dayvig than you already are in discussion who to lynch. People are free to discuss multiple scummy players regardless of whether we have a publicly disclosed Dayvig or not.

Actually, I think that we learned somewhat less from this dayvig than we would have from the discussion preceding a lynch. The difference is in the wagons. People react differently to them, they give reasons to either support them or avoid them, and you can look for connections based on that. Here only few people had commented on Xtoxm prior to his flip, and we missed the chance to see if anyone would jump at the suggestion of having him vigged. Not that I'm complaining, a dead scum is a dead scum.

I searched the thread for references to Xtoxm, and only Shadow had a clear scum stance on him, apart from hasdgfas himself. I already had a town read on Shadow, and now we have additional evidence that he is not Stark-aligned. MoI comes second for questioning Xtoxm for his vote, which shows suspicion. I also mentioned Xtoxm once in a positive connection, for having the best suggestion for how to be rid of the governor power, though I did not agree with that. That's it. No one else has had any significant interaction with Xtoxm, and we can only look at Xtoxm's own posts for any hints.

[LimMePls]

Actually, I think that we learned somewhat less from this dayvig than we would have from the discussion preceding a lynch.

Really? I think we learned something damn powerful: hascow is NOT stark. No "vig discussion" could have bought us that much of an insight into a single player slot.

[xvart]

Sad to see GreyICE and DGB go like that, but I can't blame either of them.

Vote: Xvart

Why have people decided this Governor ability is something they want to keep in the game?

What the hell kinda scum vote?

Possible scum buddy of Xtoxm, getting a bus in on someone with no votes and not getting wagonned anytime in the near future. Why is Xtoxm's vote scummy and not the other people who voted me? Also, I'm torn as to whether or not his reaction posts to the dayvig are genuine or not.

unvote. Vote:Thor

Oops on xvart

I dont like the raivann wagon. He's Lannister i'm 100%sure.

No other explanation on you misread the case, didn't care about the case, hoped it was legitimate? Whoops on going back to your RVS vote of someone who has posted once?

I'm seeing the zoraster/Raivaan link, and I agree with diddin's 745 about zoraster retracting his scum read on Raivaan; I'm torn on which of the two will reveal more information on the other. I have to admit, both of their votes on each other are lackluster and not especially genuine in my opinion. I'll revote after I read them both in ISO.

UNVOTE:

[Shadow1psc]

His vote was scummy because he jumped on the bus with absolutely no inclination, no content, and no contribution to the game.