Newbie 1066 (Game Over!)

[bvoigt]

Hi, everyone! Our games usually begin with RVS (Random Voting Stage) or RQS (Random Questioning Stage).

VOTE: mozamis for posting first.

[bvoigt]

That's the deadline for Day 1.

[bvoigt]

Yeah, it's pretty typical. We don't always need to use all 21 days, of course.

[bvoigt]

But yeah, I'm suspicious of bvoigt too.

Why did you only mention this after mozamis said he was suspicious of me?

UNVOTE: mozamis
VOTE: RaudhrGarm

[bvoigt]

@mozamis: Naturally, we aren't going to lynch anyone for a while, but a couple of votes are harmless.

[bvoigt]

RG, please answer my question from post #18.

[bvoigt]

Before we get I start playing the game I have 2 questions for everybody.
1) How much experience do you have playing games on this site here?
2) Do you have experience playing this game outside of this site?
Experience tends to be useful to know for future reads.

I haven't played mafia anywhere else, but I have 5 completed games on MafiaScum.

Vote: Mozamis

Why are you holding a vote back against Bvoigt?

This caught my eye. Mozamis had no need to vote there. He simply explained that he found the action suspicious. In short I don't feel that justifies a vote on him.

Thian, I'm guessing Raudhr felt (like me) that it was suspicious that after Raudhr voted for me as a joke, Bvoigt quickly voted for me too.

If a question is directly asked to another player like this one was, it is generally not a good idea to answer for the player. That player - who might be a mafia member - may use the reason you came up with to hide behind and it may look like the two of you are a mafia team working together. Small warning.

Why are you so eager to defend mozamis and then give him advice?

[bvoigt]

"RG, please answer my question from post #18."
Yeah, basically I didn't like the way you jumped on the first person who posted after I made a bit of a joke vote. Yeah, it's what Moza said, but it is the truth.
/inb4i'mscum

If you didn't like it, why didn't you mention it right away? You made three other posts, but didn't say anything until mozamis did.

ok, so on the limited amount of evidence so far, my feeling is that Thian and bvoigt are scum. they seem to be the only players working in tandem/together. Of course, that might be completely wrong But they seem to be very eager to lynch someone as quickly as possible, whereas everyone else so far seems a bit more cautious, becuase they don't want to lynch a townie. bvoight and thian don't seem to be so worried about that...

Why Thian and I, when TWIE and RG have also voted already?

[bvoigt]

RVS is the Random Voting Stage.

[bvoigt]

I'd like to hear other people's reads on mozamis.

While he does look scummy, my gut is telling me newbie town.

[bvoigt]

Because of my severe dislike of the RVS (you

did

read the Common Abbreviations, didn't you? I'll wait.) I like to start off with RQS; the Random Question Stage!

Forthwith:

1) Are you having fun yet?

2) Chocolate or vanilla?

3) How many Mafia games have you played (here or elsewhere)?

4) Lynch all Liars?

5) Math or Sports?

6) Lynch all Lurkers?

7) What do

you

think of the RVS?


I'll post my answers soon, or after everyone, depending on consensus.

1. Yes!
2. I prefer chocolate ice cream.
3. I have 5 completed games.
4. 99.9% of the time. I see no reason to lie in a newbie game.
5. Math League

is

a sport.
6. Nah. Lurking can be deliberate, but usually I consider it a null tell.
7. I think it's over, and would like to hear your thoughts on the game so far.

[bvoigt]

7. I think [RVS is] over, and would like to hear your thoughts on the game so far.

[bvoigt]

OK...RG would not be this confused if he was scum.

UNVOTE: RaudhrGharm
VOTE: Nobody Special

Starting with a night phase is like advocating a no lynch first day..... you start a person down with little to no information about any of the players...

Correct me if I'm wrong, but that sounds awful.

What are you getting at?

[bvoigt]

I've been waiting for content from him, and post #73 let me down.

[bvoigt]

@Nobody Special: NYAAH NYAAH NYAAH NYAAH NYAAH, I CAN'T HEAR YOU!!

What are you getting at?

I'm.... not getting at anything. Its all right there. Starting with a night phase is giving scum a free shot at somebody without getting any usable information.

I just think that sounds like an awful idea.

Why, what do you think I'm getting at?

I thought it might be some sort of silly scumhunting. But instead, you were just saying something with no real relevance to the game? Sounds to me like scum trying to skate by without posting any content.

UNVOTE: Nobody Special
VOTE: TheWayItEnds

[bvoigt]

Bvoight, your votes are coming across as your only reason ((a safe reason at that)) to get people to talk. Have you not come up with anything else other than using the same excuse ((written differently each time)). Instead of asking where people are and using your vote as leverage to get people to speak up, let's hear your thoughts on what players are doing, instead of what players are not doing.

What? Not doing something (as in, not scumhunting) can be just as bad as doing something.

[bvoigt]

The fourth one, on me I didn't get, I was replying to RGs strange comment, he says I'm posting without relevance. A vote for lurking without content I would have understood... that one not so much.

To me, lurking is a null tell, because it just means that someone doesn't have time to post. Posting without relevance, on the other hand is active lurking...someone is choosing not to post content. That being said, your recent posts do have decent content.

UNVOTE: TheWayItEnds
VOTE: Nobody Special

NS's most recent post is true, but it's an awful lot of words to post one neutral read.

[bvoigt]

bvoight: Who's your second suspect at the moment?

I'm actually getting more town reads than scum reads at the moment. My second suspect would be Maxous, though. I feel like his Raudhr vote is the easy choice rather than real scumhunting.

As for those town reads, they are:

Vordark- For a new player, he's providing a lot of well-thought out analysis.
RaudhrGarm- He looks too confused to be part of the "informed minority."
TheWayItEnds- I'm not sure I agree with ISO #15, but it's a townish post.
Trendall- ISO #3 is an excellent post.
mozamis- This isn't as strong, but he is definitely giving off a town vibe.

Which leaves:

Thian
Maxous
Nobody Special

[bvoigt]

So...I'm your top suspect for being active and mentioning everyone?

[bvoigt]

Is that not what I said? Reading comprehension FTW.

Yeah, I know that's what you said...and I'm not exactly impressed.

[bvoigt]

My first vote was a random bandwagon, if that makes any sense.

vordark, you make some good points, but...I don't know. I just don't get the feeling that mozamis is scum.

[bvoigt]

But...let's assume that Vordark is scum. Then, unless you guys are scumbuddies, he actually knows you're town.

[bvoigt]

@Vordark: I don't know exactly. Maybe it's just that he's not exactly staying in the background. True, both scum and town can post a lot, but it seems like something that town is more likely to do.

[bvoigt]

But...let's assume that Vordark is scum. Then, unless you guys are scumbuddies, he actually knows you're town.

Are you suspicious of Vordark or something? This comment seems weird.

Nah, I think Vordark is town. I was talking about the poor logic in post #232.

[bvoigt]

Looking back I skimmed through Vordark's bit and therefore did'nt mention him. Sorry.
As for the 'unjustified' suspicion, Garm has shown little to no interest in finding a mafia member to lynch in this game, instead looking to get suspicion off him. Can you give me one single reason somebody would not be interested in finding a mafia as town?

Would you agree that NS has also shown little interest in finding mafia?

[bvoigt]

Practice what you preach.

[bvoigt]

maxous or me, bvoigt?

You.

[bvoigt]

why do you have to talk for your scum partner anyway Vordark? Is NS really that short on confidence?

Why again do you think Vordark is scum?

[bvoigt]

Hmm...I was starting to wonder about mozamis, but the previous post actually gives me a town feeling. If he was scum, I think he would have worried about OMGUS and changed his mind

before

posting about suspicions of Vordark.

I still think NS (along with Maxous) is scum, and Trendall is town. This game seems to be stalling, though.

[bvoigt]

If I'm not mistaken, NS is at L-1.

72 hours fly by with absolutely no scumhunting from me.

FTFY. Seriously, if you're town, please start acting like it.

Preview Edit: Heh, TWIE and I typed exactly the same thing.

[bvoigt]

VOTE: Nobody Special
I am suspicious of this player. For an IC, surely they could be guiding us a bit more?

Ugh. Why didn't you at least wait and ask for a claim?

[bvoigt]

Hmm. That hammer

was

pretty scummy....

[bvoigt]

No need to place someone at L-1 with the 5th post of the day.

[bvoigt]

Oh, now I'm scum? Why?

[bvoigt]

No, really. Please explain.

[bvoigt]

Well if you lynch me, it would clear bvoigt. Going on the evidence provided by Vordark in this post. I hadn't really been interested in persecuting Mozamis, but I realised that it is possibl there is a more expereienced Mafian guiding Mozamis on what to post so that he can get away with killing villagers while getting to play innocent due to noobiness. Also, considering that he was the one who pushed for the NS lynch.

I may have provided the final vote, but

I thought that we would have gotten a clue from whoever was killed

, making it easier to find scum the next day. Ergo my eagerness to finish the first day phase when I saw that four people had already voted for NS.

VOTE: Mozamis

But you'd already asked if there were clues:

It's better to start off with a night phase so that you don't have to worry about randomly killing an innocent just to get through the phase quicker.

Also, on replacing me, I will be active and try to help the Village, it is just that it's better than lynching the doc, right? You don't want to end the first day phase to find that you've killed off one of the most important assets to the Village. Also, I signed up so that I can improve my clue-solving skills (there are clues, right?).

No clues. That's an

extremely

rare practice on this site.
-Crazy

There...aren't...clues?

*Insert nooooo! compilation*

So, what's with the lie?

[bvoigt]

I really don't see any way it was simply misreading. The last quote makes it obvious that you knew there weren't clues.

[bvoigt]

@Mozamis: Please answer why you think Bvoight is mafia?

Yeah, please answer this. Even if you don't think I'm mafia anymore, explain what your thought process was.

[bvoigt]

I just want to know your thought process. Or were you just flinging around random, baseless suspicions?

[bvoigt]

There...aren't...clues?

*Insert nooooo! compilation*

If this doesn't imply that you knew there weren't clues, what

is

it trying to say?

[bvoigt]

Won't be active again until next Sunday. Family stuff has come up.

Can't you just answer my question from #332? It will only take a few minutes....

[bvoigt]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure he's scum, but we're going to wait for a claim this time.

[bvoigt]

He could be a cop or doc, with a convincing breadcrumb. No, it's not likely, but it's certainly possible.

[bvoigt]

You believe this possibility, even when taking into account all of his past behavior, is enough reason to wait seven RL days to see if he's even going to resume posting?

It's a possibility, and nothing bad is going to come from our waiting.

Moreover, would you believe any claim that might come from him?

Probably not, but I might be willing to believe him if he breadcrumbed.

[bvoigt]

Breadcrumbing? Why are we talking about breadcrumbing and potentially outting someone to mafia! *face palm*

I think you misunderstood. If, hypothetically, RG claimed a power role, and pointed out a convincing breadcrumb, I might believe him.

[bvoigt]

@Bvoigt: Am I right in reading that you're going to hammer Garm after a claim?
Who would be your second suspect if you had to choose?

Yes. Depending on his claim, and his answer to the following question, I might hammer.

There...aren't...clues?

*Insert nooooo! compilation*

If this doesn't imply that you knew there weren't clues, what

is

it trying to say?

As for my second suspect, it depends on RG's flip. If he's scum, I'd go with Thian. It seems like a bussing situation, and his vote fits the bill. If RG is town, I'd look at mozamis because of his refusal to answer a pretty simple question.

[bvoigt]

Also, why do you say "going to hammer?" If I was going to hammer no matter what, it would be pointless to ask for a claim.

@TWIE: What is your opinion of RG?

[bvoigt]

Your last sentence is the most anti-town statement I can think of.

Anti-town, perhaps, but is it more likely to come from scum? I'm not seeing it.

[bvoigt]

Moz's defense of "I'm not talking because that will help the scum" is absurd.

It may not have been a good idea, but why would scum be more likely to say something like that?

[bvoigt]

@mozamis: Why do you think Thian is town?

After his behavior Day One and his hammering of NS, RG is an almost guaranteed lynch coming into Day Two. I find it hard to believe that a bus attempt would be made there, since it would be almost certain to result in a kill rather than just a way to deflect suspicion.

Maybe

if this was RG trying to sacrifice himself to make Moz look good for Day Three, but I think that's a stretch.

I actually think it's a bussing situation if RG is scum; however, the way mozamis is pushing his case doesn't look like bussing. (I thought I had something else to say, but now I can't remember what it was.)

@Thian: I'd definitely prefer a RG lynch over a mozamis lynch. In fact, since he's not at L-1 anymore, I'll place my vote. It looks like TWIE will be the one to decide.

VOTE: RaudhrGarm

RG and mozamis are both at L-1 now. However, we are not ending the day until we get a claim from RG.

[bvoigt]

I actually think it's a bussing situation if RG is scum; however, the way mozamis is pushing his case doesn't look like bussing.

So it's a bussing situation if RG is mafia, but you don't think it's bussing even though you think RG is mafia?
..That does'nt make sense

It is a bussing situation. However, I think Thian is the one doing the bussing, not mozamis.

[bvoigt]

@mozamis: Why do you think Thian is town?

Please answer this.

bvoight:
Not true, speculate what you want. why would I bus RG in your opinion? Would the situation be different, if I went back to my first feeling on mozamis day 1? Getting ridiculed for it as people claim that Mozamis "IS" lynch bait? If you take into account that calling someone Lynch bait, is pretty much telling the town in some slip or another, that they know mozamis is town and just an easy target?

It's a bussing situation because, especially at the beginning of the day, it looked like RG would definitely be lynched. The rest of the quote is confusing me. Could you clarify?

[bvoigt]

Are you guys forgetting that RaudhrGarm was caught in a lie?

[bvoigt]

Are you guys forgetting that RaudhrGarm was caught in a lie?

yes, what was that? was it the "no clues in this game "thing?

Yep. See my ISOs #35, #36, and #39.

[bvoigt]

yes, thats a bugger for RG. Might be an innocent expalnation for it. But if i say what it is, no doubt I'll be accused of "defending my scum partner".
Thoughts on the vordark maxous tag posting BV?

If it might be a reasonable explanation, there's no harm in throwing it out there. As for the last sentence, nothing stands out to me.

[bvoigt]

Mozamis is starting to worry me as well. But, I just think RG is obvious scum.

[bvoigt]

who ever is scum -good job! (why is there no applause emoticon?)
I'm totally broken with this game.
Lynch me. Bolllocks to all of you.
may as well have an OMGUS vote before i go: Vordark, you are either an ABSOLUTE COCK, or good at playing scum

UNVOTE VOTE VORDARK

Good luck town
See you at the end of the game!

What the?

[bvoigt]

Congrats to the scumteam. You played very well. And thanks for modding, Crazy!

That last day went really fast. By the end, I was pretty sure that the scumteam was RG and TWIE. I wouldn't have been shocked to see Thian flip scum; however, Vordark seemed obvtown. Oops. Here are a few thoughts:

mozamis: Never give up. Even at L-1, there's still a pretty good chance that your wagon gets derailed. Unfortunately, your last post gave scum the perfect excuse to hammer you.

RaudhrGarm: I still don't buy that explanation.

Trendall: Why did you think RG and I were scummates?

Vordark: You really didn't have to worry about me, heh.

[bvoigt]

... Can someone (Maxous too) explain to me what I was doing wrong? Like.... why did I look scummy at the end of the game? I realize I was defending Mr. Scummy.... but I thought at least some of my points were valid... even if I was scrambling to find them.

At least to me, saying "let's find the other scum" sounded like you knew RG was scum, but you just didn't want him to be lynched. It seems a little silly in retrospect.

@Trendall: Yeah, I figured that was what you were referring to. I actually thought the same thing about this post:

While he hasn't done a single pro-town thing all game, maybe waiting until he comes back for him to say hes the cop with a guilty would be beneficial.

I was really hoping that RG would claim cop and make my life easy.

[bvoigt]

@bvoigt: It wouldn't have made your life easier. Thian and I chose to block him every night. I was Roleblocker in this game.

Actually, I meant that it seemed like TWIE was instructing his partner on what to claim, because if RG actually had a guilty result, he would have claimed at the beginning of the day.

Yeah I got called out on that 2 separate ways... Vordark's are you confused about how many scum there are in the game bullshit... was making me silently rage.

Hmm, I didn't catch that at first. It was basically mudslinging...if you were really scum, you'd know the numbers.

[bvoigt]

I figured you were trying to make it more subtle than it actually was. Oh well.