Cold War Mafia - GAME OVER!!

[Amrun]

I still don't understand why you think someone who might have been on ego-trip is more likely scum than someone who wanted to nuke an entire country, no. It sounds very much like you're trying to grasp at straws.

HOW did it make more sense to lynch me first at t-20 or whatever? It just... it just does not make sense to me.

I see that you're trying to explain, but your explanations are just not satisfactory. If that's my fault, then I apologize. I'm trying to grasp your reasoning here. I really am.

[Bunnylover]

I still don't understand why you think someone who might have been on ego-trip is more likely scum than someone who wanted to nuke an entire country, no. It sounds very much like you're trying to grasp at straws.

HOW did it make more sense to lynch me first at t-20 or whatever? It just... it just does not make sense to me.

I see that you're trying to explain, but your explanations are just not satisfactory. If that's my fault, then I apologize. I'm trying to grasp your reasoning here. I really am.

Re-read the wiki (or maybe I should), Che didn't start the missile crisis.
Che gained the missile, but never did anything with them.

[Bunnylover]

Also even though I get lynched and flip town, don't let scum get away with, "OH WELL MY PM HAD LITTLE FLAVOR JUST LIKE BUNNY'S!"
Hell no ^.
If they are American or Soviet, they will more then likely have ton of flavor.

[Amrun]

Let's look at some Che Guevara quotes:

"Along the way, I had the opportunity to pass through the dominions of the United Fruit, convincing me once again of just how terrible these capitalist octopuses are. I have sworn before a picture of the old and mourned comrade Stalin that I won't rest until I see these capitalist octopuses annihilated."

"I am not Christ or a philanthropist, old lady, I am all the contrary of a Christ.... I fight for the things I believe in, with all the weapons at my disposal and try to leave the other man dead so that I don't get nailed to a cross or any other place."

"War is always a struggle in which each contender tries to annihilate the other. Besides using force, they will have recourse to all possible tricks and stratagems to achieve the goal."

"The desire to sacrifice an entire lifetime to the noblest of ideals serves no purpose if one works alone."

"On various occasions emissaries of the U.S. State Department came, disguised as reporters, to investigate our rustic revolution, yet they never found any trace of imminent danger. By the time the imperialists wanted to react — when they discovered that the group of inexperienced young men marching in triumph through the streets of Havana had a clear awareness of their political duty and an iron determination to carry out that duty — it was already too late."

"Power is the sine qua non strategic objective of the revolutionary forces, and everything must be subordinated to this basic endeavor. But the taking of power, in this world polarized by two forces of extreme disparity and absolutely incompatible in interests, cannot be limited to the boundaries of a single geographic or social unit. The seizure of power is a worldwide objective of the revolutionary forces."
^^ How is that for power hungry?

"When forces of oppression come to maintain themselves in power against established law, peace is considered already broken."
^^ This one is pretty huge. He's saying that if there is oppression, peace is already broken and there is therefore no need to keep the peace. Does this relate to town wincon? It seems to be in direct opposition.


And the big ones...

"If they attack, we shall fight to the end. If the rockets had remained, we would have used them all and directed them against the very heart of the United States, including New York, in our defense against aggression. But we haven’t got them, so we shall fight with what we’ve got."
^He just said that if he could have, he would have nuked the United States.

"'Moral missiles' are such a devastatingly effective weapon that they have become the most important element in determining Cuba's value."

"Is it possible or not, given the present conditions in our continent, to achieve it (socialist power, that is) by peaceful means? We emphatically answer that, in the great majority of cases, this is not possible."



I only went looking for the nuke quote to prove he wanted to bomb the US and would have if he could have, but found some other quotes too.

Working towards keeping the peace is not what Che Guevara did by his own admission, and he is such a huge character that only having that as flavor makes no sense.


To be fair, though, I did find a quote that indicated he could be town side:

"I knew that the moment the great governing spirit strikes the blow to divide all humanity into just two opposing factions, I would be on the side of the common people."

[gonnano]

"When forces of oppression come to maintain themselves in power against established law, peace is considered already broken."

That means that he considered his rebellions an effort to restore peace.

Also, he considered the United States an exploitative nation, broken beyond repair, that also happened to have nuclear weapons and wanted to attack Cuba. So of course he would want to use the missiles in defense of Cuba.

Look, you don't have to convince me that he's scummy. I was trying to decide which one could possibly be connected to the "threat to the peace" wincon, and it was an easier jump to make for Guevara than McCarthy.

None of it matters anyway, because Bunny is now basically the only viable lynch.
UNVOTE:
VOTE: Bunny

[EGL]

@Amrun I missed the part where Bunny is 100% for sure scum.

[EGL]

unvote
Vote: Bunnylover

Hammer.

[EGL]

I want to make sure we get some kind of flip and info today.

[Amrun]

@gonnano: I actually admire Che Guevara in a lot of ways, but how you think HE is more peaceable than McCarthy is what's baffling me. You still think that and it still doesn't make sense.

@EGL: What do you mean you missed where she is 100% scum.

p-edit: ohshi hammer.

[EGL]

Your question said if she's 100% scum why vote for you. I missed where it's 100% she's scum. Anyway I've hammered now.

[EGL]

I think the character/flavor stuff needs to halt for right now. It's a pretty useless debate so far.

[Amrun]

I have to agree, even though I was a big participant. No more flavor speculation from me this phase.

And I fully realize that if bunny flips scum, I look scum because I also have a questionable flavor, but I'll cross that bridge when I come to it. I'll just be happy if she flips scum.

And if she flips town, I just don't know how this game cannot be bastard.

[smargaret]

Actually, I think Bunny's at L-1.

[ThAdmiral]

@ThAd: Explain to me why you think that move makes sense.

Which move? Me voting you?
Um, because I think you are the scummier of the two. You both have scum-sounding claims but your slot has been far more scummy throughout the game.

I mess up ThAd's casing sometimes, too, I think.

I've probably messed up ThAd too.

It's ok. I'm really not a stickler for casing. Plus its my fault for having such a weirdly cased name anyway.

How do you reconcile Bunny's total lack of flavor?

I only have a very short sentence of flavor as well, so I don't see it as all that relevant.

If they are American or Soviet, they will more then likely have ton of flavor.

^^

[EGL]

Bunnylover - 10 - LlamaFluff, Amrun, RedCoyote, bvoigt, smargaret, Lowell, Nachomamma8, Stephoscope, DavidParker, Furcolow

+ InflatablePie

+ Gon

+ me

13. Unless I missed someone moving off.

[ThAdmiral]

Yeah just checked that was hammer.

bunny: anything else to say? If you are town please post your reads on everyone. If you're scum don't bother.

[smargaret]

Ah, I missed Gon.

[Amrun]

@ThAd: But my slot has been active throughout the game and hers hasn't... so I don't think that's quite fair. But what I meant was not why you voted me at all, but why you voted me RIGHT THEN when it was pointless.

And you are more likely to have a sentence for flavor, since you claim to be a VT. And she didn't claim even a sentence. She claimed a name and "you win when you eliminate threats to the peace."

[Bunnylover]

Yeah, I was town.
Everything I've told ya'll was true.

Scum: DavidParker, 1 Person not on my wagon (Other then TheAdmarial),

Not sure: Llama, Amrun, LMP
Would like those investigated.

Town: Furclow and Feyesal and TheAdmerial (sorry im in a rush so i'm not looking at spelling ), Morthax

GOOD LUCK TOWN!

[Amrun]

If you are really town then I have just been mindfucked by the mod.

[DavidParker]

Shit or get off the pot, David. I see no nameclaim for you.

I don't really intend to name claim as of yet, I'm merely pointing out that my name claim is neither someone who was pro-war or someone who was pro-peace. Just a random character. It's pretty clear I am town from my name-claim but that can come later if people still want to vote me tomorrow. And I do reiterate that ThAd is town.

[Furcolow]

EGL IS SO INCREDIBLY SCUMMY
WHEN I GET NIGHTKILLED, PLEASE KILL HIM - WITH A ROPE

[ThAdmiral]

@ThAd: But my slot has been active throughout the game and hers hasn't... so I don't think that's quite fair. But what I meant was not why you voted me at all, but why you voted me RIGHT THEN when it was pointless.

Depending on how other people had voted afterwards it may not have been pointless.

EGL IS SO INCREDIBLY SCUMMY
WHEN I GET NIGHTKILLED, PLEASE KILL HIM - WITH A ROPE

...or a knife, or whatever else is handy. Basically I support this.

[Feysal]

Yeah, I was town.

Well, so much for that. Once this is confirmed by a mod post, that will mean that flavor does not guarantee anyone to be either town or scum.

It is regrettable this had to happen, but it seems too many players wanted to lynch either Amrun or Bunnylover because of their scummy roles, and there were no viable alternatives with time running out.

There is still over an hour until deadline, so I may have time to post some thoughts before the night phase begins, depending on when the mod gets here.

EGL IS SO INCREDIBLY SCUMMY
WHEN I GET NIGHTKILLED, PLEASE KILL HIM - WITH A ROPE

Just when I was starting to entertain the thought that you might just be playing badly, you go and do something like this.

Did you forget that you had claimed

bulletproof

? How are you supposed to be nightkilled!

[Sathoris]

I really think all those wikipedia bits about characters mean nothing. First line of the game:

A deeply flawed historical mafia event.