Mini 1117 - Manhattan Special - [GAME OVER]

[el simo]

Eh just got back from camp, courses start on Monday, timetable is busy as hell, won't be able to give this game the time it deserves (like I can now syke), I really hate to do it but

mod, I need to replace out.

Sorry

unvote:

[Erratus Apathos]

Saporo's lurking is worse than MS's. MS posts minimal content regarding his suspects, but Saporo is a great big sack full of fence sitting and promises to post later.

Yeah but it's the lack of content in the posts that makes it suspicious in the first place.

Yes it is! Here is my analysis on the content on each of MS's and saporo's posts, with posts I deem non-content in bold:

MS:
0: Random votes Emp
1: Votes you for a contradiction

2: Asks IS for a philosophy lesson and says Simo is always wrong

3: more Simo bashing

4: Votes Confid/Fugitive
5: Calls CQ town and votes you
6: Explains why he thinks you bussed IS
7: Says he thinks your AtE is scummy
8: Calls you scummy for not answering CQ's questions
9: Clarifies that he did not say "lurking"
10: Asks where he perceived you as a mislynch

Saporo:

0: Says she's catching up

1: Player by player analysis

2: EBWOP to 1

3: Jokes regarding Grey's accusation that she skimmed the thread

4: Says "What" to Fugitive

5: Answers my question and asks TL about his CQ vote
6: Clarifies her question about TL

7: VLA

8: Votes me and calls CQ and sub town

See? MS despite his low content is posting in a reasonably protown manner (trying to get suspects lynched, etc.), whereas saporo is just posting worthless shit. In fact after considering this I actually find saporo to be even scummier than Fugitive.

In the realms of internal emotions, how can I check this feeling?

So obviously, I am observing the difference between your previous episode with IS (flipped mafia) and your current episode, in which you hopped before receiving an answer. How scummy is this? Im not attacking you, but I added this observation and when reading back the IS episode, I note that just after he answered you, you voted together for shadow, who flipped town. It is my only source of scum feelings from your side, so I make it explicit for other people to know. I understand there is not a precise answer to my question, however...

Fair enough.

But since you dont consider him scummy, I guess you consider his answers BEFORE getting tired of my case as partially explaining my strikes as town and not as scum. Hence, i want to hear your opinion. A line for each of the 9 strikes will be enouh, thanks.

Okay.

Strike 1 (suspecting IS but going after Shado and Emp instead) and 2 (going after Emp for his placement on the Shado wagon but not IS or you):

Your third point about me going after townies gets into nothing but WIFOM. I went after town because I didn't know if they were town. Your calling that into question makes me believe that you have information that we don't.

I think the second sentence quoted here is a fair point. Not that it justifies going after townies of course, but I don't think Sub's attacks mentioned in the strikes were unjust to begin with, which is why I think his point applies here.

Strike 3 (saying he didn't understand your criticism of IS):

I noticed you were pointing out inconsistencies, my problem with your case was that you called something "curious" which doesn't really jive with "that's scum" or "that's town". Therefore, while I agreed with the premise of what you were attempting to do, and noticed inconsistencies, I disagreed with the details. That's what I'm saying. Your aggregate argument was correct, the micro argument was where we disagreed.

Even though "curious" in the context of Mafia usually just means "requires explanation" or similar, I know that from experience and I also know that the word does often confuse people who don't have that experience.

Strike 4 (making an easy vote on MS for lurking), 5 (calling out Emp for lurker voting, but also voting MS for lurking):

MS my vote on you was the fact that you pop in, vote for EMP without explaining it, and then withdraw back into the shadows. Only half that vote is because of your lurkiness, and you're taking both of my statements out of context. I don't like when people vote/pressure people who haven't even posted yet. You had already posted a scummilicious post.

I also should point out that I have never once seen a player who attacks lurkers as scum but not as town. It depends much more on the player than on the player's alignment.

Strikes 6 (OMGUSing MS), 7 (lining up lynches), and 8 (justifying a possible town lynch) I do not see an answer from him. I don't think any of these things are scum tells though.

Strike 9 (Bussing IS, but casting doubt on NC's claim):

Midnight what the hell are you talking about, honestly? We had a confirmed guilty. I voted that way.

To me it doesn't look like he was trying to get the town to doubt NC's claim. I think what's happening here is he considered the possibility of both NC-scum and IS-scum, and chose IS-scum.

Wrong. Trying to being fair on your comparison, Sub started in post 44, or ISO 3 (before, he was mostly commenting my view of IS).

I'm looking at the entire conversation, not just the questioning part. The post of Fugitive (or his alt to be exact) I named was 440, as that starts the conversation between me and him, even though at that point it was just an unexplained vote. Similarly, I looked at where Sub/CQ started and chose 23 even though at that point he was commenting on your view of IS.

In post 169, or ISO 7, he said:

Crazy I honestly just

gave up on answering

your questions, because they are living up to your forum name. The second question was answered, I apologize if it was not to your expectations. I'll try this one more time and then

I'm done with it.

From ISO 3 to ISO 7 that is what you call

four posts apiece

.

That's not the same thing. Sub was getting tired of the specific line of questioning you were throwing at him at the time, as opposed to talking to you in general.

Then I want to know all your reads before this episode. I have heard you enough about this one. There is a guy at L-1 and you dedicate your time to someone people is not thinking to vote?

Before the me/Fugitive episode my only scum read was TL for his vote park. Fugitive, MS and Saporo I felt needed to post more but given that D1 was fairly short and D2 was a speedlynch it wasn't enough for me to call any of them lurkers.

But I would now rather lynch saporo.

UNVOTE: Fugitive
VOTE: saporovirus

Not only for lurking, but when she does post it's meaningless. See my analysis at the top of this post. Look at her player by player analysis at 151, it is fence-sitting at its fence-sittingest. And that's the closest thing to analysis she has done the entire game.

[Substrike22]

Based on the above post I am 100% convinced that we have a MS/CQ team.

CQ once again you've managed to

oversimplify

my argument in an attempt to paint me as scum. It's just annoying. MS is an active lurking scum, which is different than a scum.

He did not "risk attracting attention"

. He's done nothing other than come in, make a snyde post here or there, or

join in on the biggest wagon

. He's attempting,

much like you, to make it look like he's contributing more than he actually is.

The only person buying it, is you, because

you're trying (very badly) to protect him.

Faking a town-tunnelling this way is just laughable.

1) I have posted

EVERY SINGLE ARGUMENT

you had against MS

with your own words

. Hardly I could oversimplify you.
2) He confronted IS and ElSimio just before you voted for him. You can discuss his level of participation, but he confronted the alpha shouters in these very rare situations he posted. And hey, one of them flipped mafia.
3) His vote for Empking was THE SECOND. His vote for you day 1 was THE FIRST. His vote for ConfidAnon was THE FIRST. His vote for you day 3 has been THE FIRST. Sorry, you fail 4 times. 4 votes, none of them was a WAGON properly.
4) He is not attempting to look like he is contributing. He considered himself a lurker. He accepted it. He attacked you for voting him as a lurker.
Obviously, I do not attempt to look like I am contributing. I am contributing.
5) I am not trying to protect him. I am attacking you.

should i assume that Empking is no longer my bff? If you want to make a case on him, maybe you succeed more.

Your entire game against me has been "laughable". You're taking all of my posts out of context when you quote them, and then spinning them your way. Honestly, lynch me. Please. That way, tomorrow, they can get you and MS and we can put this whole thing to rest. If the town isn't going to lynch you, or MS, please, I want them to lynch me, so they realize how bad MS has been playing. You two are by far and away the scummiest players this game, or you're just bad at being a town player and need to learn how to logically interpret my arguments without putting your own spin on them. You're looking worse than FOX news.

[Substrike22]

Saporo's lurking is worse than MS's. MS posts minimal content regarding his suspects, but Saporo is a great big sack full of fence sitting and promises to post later.

Yeah but it's the lack of content in the posts that makes it suspicious in the first place.

Yes it is! Here is my analysis on the content on each of MS's and saporo's posts, with posts I deem non-content in bold:

MS:
0: Random votes Emp
1: Votes you for a contradiction

2: Asks IS for a philosophy lesson and says Simo is always wrong

3: more Simo bashing

4: Votes Confid/Fugitive
5: Calls CQ town and votes you
6: Explains why he thinks you bussed IS
7: Says he thinks your AtE is scummy
8: Calls you scummy for not answering CQ's questions
9: Clarifies that he did not say "lurking"
10: Asks where he perceived you as a mislynch

Saporo:

0: Says she's catching up

1: Player by player analysis

2: EBWOP to 1

3: Jokes regarding Grey's accusation that she skimmed the thread

4: Says "What" to Fugitive

5: Answers my question and asks TL about his CQ vote
6: Clarifies her question about TL

7: VLA

8: Votes me and calls CQ and sub town

See? MS despite his low content is posting in a reasonably protown manner (trying to get suspects lynched, etc.), whereas saporo is just posting worthless shit. In fact after considering this I actually find saporo to be even scummier than Fugitive.

In the realms of internal emotions, how can I check this feeling?

So obviously, I am observing the difference between your previous episode with IS (flipped mafia) and your current episode, in which you hopped before receiving an answer. How scummy is this? Im not attacking you, but I added this observation and when reading back the IS episode, I note that just after he answered you, you voted together for shadow, who flipped town. It is my only source of scum feelings from your side, so I make it explicit for other people to know. I understand there is not a precise answer to my question, however...

Fair enough.

But since you dont consider him scummy, I guess you consider his answers BEFORE getting tired of my case as partially explaining my strikes as town and not as scum. Hence, i want to hear your opinion. A line for each of the 9 strikes will be enouh, thanks.

Okay.

Strike 1 (suspecting IS but going after Shado and Emp instead) and 2 (going after Emp for his placement on the Shado wagon but not IS or you):

Your third point about me going after townies gets into nothing but WIFOM. I went after town because I didn't know if they were town. Your calling that into question makes me believe that you have information that we don't.

I think the second sentence quoted here is a fair point. Not that it justifies going after townies of course, but I don't think Sub's attacks mentioned in the strikes were unjust to begin with, which is why I think his point applies here.

Strike 3 (saying he didn't understand your criticism of IS):

I noticed you were pointing out inconsistencies, my problem with your case was that you called something "curious" which doesn't really jive with "that's scum" or "that's town". Therefore, while I agreed with the premise of what you were attempting to do, and noticed inconsistencies, I disagreed with the details. That's what I'm saying. Your aggregate argument was correct, the micro argument was where we disagreed.

Even though "curious" in the context of Mafia usually just means "requires explanation" or similar, I know that from experience and I also know that the word does often confuse people who don't have that experience.

Strike 4 (making an easy vote on MS for lurking), 5 (calling out Emp for lurker voting, but also voting MS for lurking):

MS my vote on you was the fact that you pop in, vote for EMP without explaining it, and then withdraw back into the shadows. Only half that vote is because of your lurkiness, and you're taking both of my statements out of context. I don't like when people vote/pressure people who haven't even posted yet. You had already posted a scummilicious post.

I also should point out that I have never once seen a player who attacks lurkers as scum but not as town. It depends much more on the player than on the player's alignment.

Strikes 6 (OMGUSing MS), 7 (lining up lynches), and 8 (justifying a possible town lynch) I do not see an answer from him. I don't think any of these things are scum tells though.

Strike 9 (Bussing IS, but casting doubt on NC's claim):

Midnight what the hell are you talking about, honestly? We had a confirmed guilty. I voted that way.

To me it doesn't look like he was trying to get the town to doubt NC's claim. I think what's happening here is he considered the possibility of both NC-scum and IS-scum, and chose IS-scum.

Wrong. Trying to being fair on your comparison, Sub started in post 44, or ISO 3 (before, he was mostly commenting my view of IS).

I'm looking at the entire conversation, not just the questioning part. The post of Fugitive (or his alt to be exact) I named was 440, as that starts the conversation between me and him, even though at that point it was just an unexplained vote. Similarly, I looked at where Sub/CQ started and chose 23 even though at that point he was commenting on your view of IS.

In post 169, or ISO 7, he said:

Crazy I honestly just

gave up on answering

your questions, because they are living up to your forum name. The second question was answered, I apologize if it was not to your expectations. I'll try this one more time and then

I'm done with it.

From ISO 3 to ISO 7 that is what you call

four posts apiece

.

That's not the same thing. Sub was getting tired of the specific line of questioning you were throwing at him at the time, as opposed to talking to you in general.

Then I want to know all your reads before this episode. I have heard you enough about this one. There is a guy at L-1 and you dedicate your time to someone people is not thinking to vote?

Before the me/Fugitive episode my only scum read was TL for his vote park. Fugitive, MS and Saporo I felt needed to post more but given that D1 was fairly short and D2 was a speedlynch it wasn't enough for me to call any of them lurkers.

But I would now rather lynch saporo.

UNVOTE: Fugitive
VOTE: saporovirus

Not only for lurking, but when she does post it's meaningless. See my analysis at the top of this post. Look at her player by player analysis at 151, it is fence-sitting at its fence-sittingest. And that's the closest thing to analysis she has done the entire game.

Honestly I'd buy this if I weren't so convinced about MS and CQ at this point.

[Empking]

Suck up.

[CrazyQuestions]

Fugitive, MS and Saporo I felt needed to post more but given that D1 was fairly short and D2 was a speedlynch it wasn't enough for me to call any of them lurkers.


But I would now rather lynch saporo.

I am fine with you forcing people to post. I wanted you to be more clear on strike, as your only comment came from one emotional reaction. You seem to favour a town view of strike and you have explained your views, which as i mentioned above are not correct to me. Fair.

I would rather lynch Strike. It is a pity that Simio left coz he was highly scummy. Strike, your alpha is not going to come to protect you now, did you yet consider ElSimio "difficult to read" even he had written close to 50 posts?

[CrazyQuestions]

EBWOP: the last quote is Erratus

May someone read post 577 and tell me where I have manipulated Strike?

I think he just believes that faking an emotional tunelling response is saying nonsensical things one after the other.

[InflatablePie]

D3 Votecount #6

[3] Substrike22 - Midnight's Sorrow, CrazyQuestions, Empking
[2] Erratus Apathos - Fugitive, saporovirus
[1] Midnight's Sorrow - Substrike22
[1] saporovirus - Erratus Apathos
[0] CrazyQuestions
[0] Fugitive
[0] TheLonging
[0] el simo
[0] Empking
[2] Not Voting - Nexus, el simo

Please point out any possible mistakes. With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch and 5 to No Lynch. The deadline is on Sunday, February 20th at 5PM EST.

Searching for a replacement for el simo.

I may grant a 48 hour deadline extension given this circumstance, however, I will be making a trip from VA to NY on Monday night and will not arrive home until Wednesday or Thursday (not sure yet). I do not want to extend the deadline if I won't have guaranteed computer access during this time (thus being unable to end day). I'll have the final verdict by tomorrow morning.

Edit: Also, I work a double shift at my job tomorrow, which means I won't leave until about 8 or 9 PM EST if we're busy. If there's no extension, deadline will still be at 5 PM, just letting you guys know that any flip/flavor may be a little late.

[Fugitive]

I guess I should post so I don't get prodded.

So... can we lynch scum?

[InflatablePie]

Prodding saporovirus.

[Nexus]

I'm willing to lynch saparo, MS, and then Substrike.

Saparo is doing nothing but slow the game down. He's been prodded again. :/

MS still, imo, hasn't contributed enough for 24 pages.

Substrike is just scummy, as outlined before. He claimed VT.

[Empking]

Vote Sub.

[CrazyQuestions]

unvote

I don't believe your claim, but MS is so damn scummy, it seems a shame to let his actions pass

unanalysed

before we lynch you, Strike

.

which is why I figure

you're number one

, and

MS/saparo is number two

. Given your recent interactions with MS, I would hazard a guess he's your scumbuddy and is trying to distance himself.

Analysis Time:

a) Erratus makes a detailed argument on the participation of MS
b) Crazy makes a detailed argument on the participation of MS
c) Nexus makes a ....?? no, he does not.

I'm willing to lynch

saparo, MS

,

and then Substrike.

Fun comment: Obey Empking. After IS' lynch and ElSimio's replacement, we are scarce of alphas....

[Nexus]

vote: Substrike

L-1 again.

I re read your analysis on MS and it does make sense.

[saporovirus]

Saporo:

0: Says she's catching up

1: Player by player analysis

2: EBWOP to 1

3: Jokes regarding Grey's accusation that she skimmed the thread

4: Says "What" to Fugitive

5: Answers my question and asks TL about his CQ vote
6: Clarifies her question about TL

7: VLA

8: Votes me and calls CQ and sub town

Sorry, that analysis does not prove that I'm posting "worthless shit," as you say. At least, not any more than other players who meet your nebulous "town" reads. I find your attempts at scumhunting to be laughable and I'm just getting happier and happier with leaving my vote on you.

Mod: V/LA until Monday afternoon.

[Empking]

If a lynch has not been reached by the deadline, there will be No Lynch

[CrazyQuestions]

Where the hell are you?

[CrazyQuestions]

Saporo, I see your name in the people online.
Also, it is ridiculous to see ElSimio in the list.

If somebody does not hammer, I plan to ask for replacement. I thought this was a serious game.

[Empking]

HoS; Saporo

[CrazyQuestions]

@MOD : If deadline was at 5 p.m. I ask for

replacement

. I did not write so many posts and dedicate so much time for realizing later the game is like this.

I apologize to the mod for the inconveniences, but I think you can perfectly understand it. Looking for more active players/games. Enjoy the game all of you. It was a pleasure to share the game with the non-responsible ones.

[Midnight's Sorrow]

Why replace out??

Anyways, it's obvious that Strike is scum, or scum are already voting him.

It's the only way I can imagine letting a No-Lynch happen because of FAILURE TO PARTICIPATE in a lynch.

-shrug-

I know which side of the ring I'm on.

DOWN WITH STRIKE-SCUM!

[Nexus]

I don't even understand why you're replacing out. Surely the time's more wasted if you don't see the game til the end?

We have to have the deadline. You didn't find a replacement. That's unfair on the rest of us trying to push a lynch.

Fugitive, saparo, and erratus, why aren't you voting for Substrike? Do you want a no lynch?

[CrazyQuestions]

Why replace out??

Because several players did not post or announce their position on a no lynch or about their lack of posting in the last moments. Since all cannot be scum, I assume some players do not take the game as I like the game. I just simply prefer to leave the game. I enjoyed it up to now, I do not regret what I played and it was a nice experience. But now is time to change game/experience.

Thanks for the game.

I don't even understand why you're replacing out. Surely the time's more wasted if you don't see the game til the end?

No. It was a nice experience. Thanks. Deadline finished 1 hour ago.

[Nexus]

Deadline doesn't finish until the mod says it does.

He said he'd be away Monday afternoon. It's Sunday afternoon. He has no reason to miss the 5pm deadline. Ergo, the day isn't over until he says it is.

All we need is for one of the ones not voting Substrike to come back and vote him.

FYI, you'll be screwing the game over by replacing out as well. That means two replacements will be needed, and it's hard enough to get replacements as it is.

[Erratus Apathos]

UNVOTE: saporovirus
VOTE: substrike22