A Storm of Swords - Lay your swords down!

[Shadow1psc]

unraise. Raise: Magua
Unvote, vote: zoraster

Will post morre later .

People need tolook at that more.

[DrippingGoofball]

Raivann is exhibiting typical townie thought processes.

[danakillsu]

Raivann is exhibiting typical townie thought processes.

How can you even tell? He's not even giving us his thoughts!
I definitely get the Raivann lynch more than the Zoraster one. Would someone currently voting Zoraster like to lay out the whole case in a nutshell?

[LimMePls]

@dana: really? Zoraster scum is one of the most talked about topics. What exactly don't you understand?

@DGB: Screenshots or it didn't happen.

[Eddard Stark]

Vote count 1.20

Mikujin (2) Danakillsu, Locke Lamora
xvart (2) Thor665, DTMaster
DTMaster (1) Shadow1psc
Thor665 (1) Twilight Sparkle
danakillsu (1) Benmage
Drippinggoofball (1) Mikujin
Raivann (4) Feysal, diddin, Zoraster, Bunnylover

Zoraster (7) MagnaofIllusion, DrippingoofBall, Kast, LynchMePls, Raivann, Magua, Zdenek

MagnaofIllusion (1) chesskid3


Not voting (4) Percy, Hasdgfas, xvart, nexus

With 24 alive it takes 13 to lynch.

Raise Count 1.20

Locke Lamora (1) Locke Lamora
Twilight Sparkle (3) Bunnylover, xvart, DTMaster
DrippingGoofball (1) Danakillsu
Danakillsu (1) chesskid3

Benmage (7) Benmage, Thor665, diddin, Mikujin, MagnaofIllusion, Zdenek, Magua

Magua (4) Hasdgfas, LynchMePls, Feysal, Raivann



Not raising (7)Nexus, Percy, Zoraster, Twilight Sparkle, DrippingGoofball, Kast, Shadow1psc

With 24 alive it takes 13 to raise someone

*Percy is being replaced. if you know anyone who might like to replace in have them contact me.
* Mikujin and Kast have expressed they'll be V/la along with MOI
*Bunnylover will be prodded.
*Any mistakes in the votecount please point them out.
* Deadline countdown is here

[Thor665]

Greetings all - I'm up through page 8 and, as usual, my brain is less than amused at this stage and has ordered an all stop in order to refresh the anti-idiocy shields enough for me to wade through more later. Thus far nothing too meaty to really dig into as with so many players page 8 is not as content filled as it would be in a smaller game, that said I have the following brilliant (and 10% accurate) observations;

Liking Magua
Liking Locke
Liking GreyICE
Should have known Mina would be in this game somewhere. Prepping drama shielding

Accurate Benmage assessment in forty words or less

Good lord, we're raising Benmage and I'm voting for it thanks to my predecessor? That's hilarious. Since Magna is on there I'll presume a logical argument has been presented for the idea, and since the other player (Magua) who I'd be likely to vote is currently voting Benmage I'll presume it's generally agreed on that the logic isn't terribad. Content to sit there for the nonce - at least this way he won't be mayor

Curious to discover what Zoraster did for the hate - thus far I found him very middle of the road. Benmage's dana vote is probably stupid though, and Mina is only voting me because she fears the beard and she should realize the beard is a force for good and go away. Should manage another 8 or so pages tonight (more if I get bouncy and my friends ditch me). Will have a vote out at that time too just to toy with people's emotions when I place a vote without reading up on everything. Heck, let's do that now just for amusement's sake;

Unvote: xvart
Vote: Mikujin

Third leading wagon ftw. Totally serious vote.

Will have more later today.

[Locke Lamora]

I am sad that Zoraster has been on-site to post in other games, but hasn't posted here.

I am sad that every single one of Twilight Sparkle's heads have been on-site, two of the three posting in other games, but haven't posted here.

UNVOTE: diddin
VOTE: Zoraster

I think this is not only pointless and unhelpful, it's also information that's pretty much always taken out of context, as Zoraster has pointed out. Also, is 'sad' an indicator that you find it scummy?

Kast: all of my games are in my wiki. In response to your reasoning for your original vote, I would say that me joining an early-game wagon with little prior investigation has been a feature of a number of my recent town games; I can remember off the top of my head that I did it on the RC wagon in Zachtown in the mountains.

Thor: why did you clarify that as a 'totally serious vote'?

[Bunnylover]

The Zoraster case I'm not really seeing.
I understand why MoI is voting for him, but thats not why others are voting for him.
The thing I see is that people are voting Zoraster because Xtomt said he was town.
Xtomt also said about 6 other people were townie too.

The Zoraster FOS buddy - Vote Townie is nice. Frankly I would rather lynch Raivann (the FOS buddy) which upon flip of a scum result will prove (or at least strenght) the fact that Zoraster was in fact doing that.
Lynching Zoraster really doesn't dissolve Raivann status.

Basically, I'm happy with my vote.

[Magua]

Good lord, we're raising Benmage and I'm voting for it thanks to my predecessor? That's hilarious. Since Magna is on there I'll presume a logical argument has been presented for the idea, and since the other player (Magua) who I'd be likely to vote is currently voting Benmage I'll presume it's generally agreed on that the logic isn't terribad. Content to sit there for the nonce - at least this way he won't be mayor

My logic, summarized: Any governor is better than no governor. Benmage is the most likely to be made governor.

I am sad that Zoraster has been on-site to post in other games, but hasn't posted here.

I am sad that every single one of Twilight Sparkle's heads have been on-site, two of the three posting in other games, but haven't posted here.

UNVOTE: diddin
VOTE: Zoraster

I think this is not only pointless and unhelpful, it's also information that's pretty much always taken out of context, as Zoraster has pointed out. Also, is 'sad' an indicator that you find it scummy?

No. I find them scummy for other reasons. The "sad" is that they're online but not posting in this game, because, scum or town, their posting in this game is more useful to me than them not.

@Locke:

Zoraster seems to think Mikujin (who you think is scum) is town (post #520). Do you think Zoraster is town?

[chesskid3]

>_>
proddodge
i got addicted to this King's guard game >_>

[diddin]

Magua your "online but not posting in this game" argument is total BS. We all probably have had times that we could only post in one of our games or didn't post in a game. People do it regardless of alignment.

[zoraster]

No. I find them scummy for other reasons. The "sad" is that they're online but not posting in this game, because, scum or town, their posting in this game is more useful to me than them not.

After I disproved this crap from you (by showing you exactly what my posts were), you want to continue this line? Perhaps you missed it. In which case, let me make it easier for you to read:

I WAS NOT POSTING IN OTHER GAMES

In addition, I had posted in the game less than 24 hours previous.

Regardless, Magua claims to have some other reason for thinking I'm scum. He has not detailed that reason as of yet (that I can tell), at least explicitly.

So, Magua: What are your reasons?

@DGB:

Here's a question for you: What do you think about the people on my wagon and their reasons for voting me? For the record that's:

MagnaofIllusion, DrippingoofBall, Kast, LynchMePls, Raivann, Magua, Zdenek

[Thor665]

Thor: why did you clarify that as a 'totally serious vote'?

So everyone would understand it wasn't an absolutely ridiculous vote, of course. Did that not come across?

[Magua]

Magua your "online but not posting in this game" argument is total BS. We all probably have had times that we could only post in one of our games or didn't post in a game. People do it regardless of alignment.

Show me the quote where I said it was indicative of alignment. This is *especially* pertinent because Locke asked about this, and I answered, both before you posted. Did you not read post #783?

Regardless, Magua claims to have some other reason for thinking I'm scum. He has not detailed that reason as of yet (that I can tell), at least explicitly.

So, Magua: What are your reasons?

#1. You're not raising anyone.
#2. Post #463 smells of someone who wants to appear helpful without actually having read the thread, as the information had already been "revealed" long before your post.
#3.

Raivann, upon second inspection is scummy. I feel like he's going for a sort of "hit and run" post style that keeps him under the radar yet active. Without reviewing anything, can you remember anything Raivann has said or what his positions are? No? Me neither, and I just reread his iso. Pretty reluctant to vote

If there was a good case against Raivann, I don't recall seeing it. I isoed you to come across your vote on Raivann, but it's not like that was gold scum hunting. You are the only person to have voted him all game, so I don't really get where you're coming from.

#4. You get Magna and I mixed up in post #611. When this is pointed out, you admit the mixup, but you don't go and state how that changes (if at all) what you feel. It reads like what you feel is already set, and you're looking for ways to justify it, rather than looking at what's there and making up your mind.
#5. Post #698, referencing Kast's #693, shows a lack of reading the line (non-quoted in your post) above the vote, which makes me think you were just skimming the post for ammo.
#6. I do think there's a scum in xtoxm's town list: GreyICE, Magua, Twighlight, Chesskid, Feysal, Zoraster. Of those, I think GreyICE is town, I know I'm town, I think Chesskid is town, and Feysal I'm null on. That leaves Twilight Sparkle and you.

[zoraster]

1. Good golly. I'm not raising anyone? How dreadful.

2. I missed cow claiming payne. I think it's pretty easy to do when his only confirmation is a smiley face. I thought it might be helpful to place the claim, which was being heavily doubted, firmly in the context of the books, but clearly that was not. Anyway, assuming you're right and I was just trying to be helpful without having read the thread, do you think this makes me scummy or just inattentive?

3. Once again, how is this remotely contradictory? Pardon me for not quoting the post DIRECTLY ABOVE IT. Here, I'll help you and put it so that it makes sense to you, I'll let others decide whether this is really contradictory or whether it's just iso-bullshit:

Raivann

Raivann, upon second inspection is scummy. I feel like he's going for a sort of "hit and run" post style that keeps him under the radar yet active. Without reviewing anything, can you remember anything Raivann has said or what his positions are? No? Me neither, and I just reread his iso. Pretty reluctant to vote

@Zoraster: Upon second inspection? What do you mean by this? Also, did you notice his "we should raise a VT, specifically chess and shadow" or his responses to my questions about it? What do you make of that? Why do you think Raivann thinks those two players are VTs? Even if he thinks they are, how would he "know" they are? How would we collectively give the hand to a VT under his proposed solution? For that matter, why is making sure it goes to a VT even a good idea?

I find Zoraster's "Raivann is scum, but LOOK OVER HERE AT THIS GUY WHO HAS BEEN GETTING MORE SCUM ATTENTION, HE'S GETTING MY VOTE" really scummy. Of course I need to stay away from relational cases D1, we saw how that turned out for me in ACoK.

Well. I read things once when I caught up on Monday or as they happened after that (once) and then I read selected portions again (twice).

If there was a good case against Raivann, I don't recall seeing it. I isoed you to come across your vote on Raivann, but it's not like that was gold scum hunting. You are the only person to have voted him all game, so I don't really get where you're coming from.

4. So? I got you mixed up and that changed how I felt. I wasn't sure how until I reviewed it.
5. Awfully rich given the above, but I don't think I left out anything that would have explained the contradiction? What exactly did I leave out that would have explained it?
6. Maybe there is scum in his list. It doesn't seem unreasonable to think that there would be. But I'm not it. That's about as far as I can defend against "he was put on a town list by a scum"

---
Once again, it's pretty clear Magua is grasping at straws trying to come up with something. Six points sounds like a lot, until you realize that some are truly weak and others are just downright mischaracterizations of what actually happened.

[xvart]

Not so sure about my townread on Diddin anymore, it was more of a post to get a reaction out of him.

What sort of reaction were you trying to get out of someone by declaring him a town read? The fact that you said "not so sure about the town read" means you thought he was actually town, so you were reaction fishing for diddin to slip up and not actually be town or you were reaction fishing to undermine your town read because the person you thought was town you actually thought was scum?

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Raivann

@Mina- What? This will be your 3rd game we've played together now. First one I was town, second one I was scum.
I think you must have noticed that I don't post this much when I'm scum. I'm too scared I'll f up.
Surely town Mina would notice this?

WIFOM aside, a sample size of two games isn't really indicative of much.

@People trying to say my existence on a town list is proof of my scumminess (Magna being the one I can think of right now): There were FIVE other people on the town list. Anyway, although this is a bit self-serving,

I honestly think xvart was more likely to put a scummate on scum list than town.

Can you explain the relevance of the bolded?

The Zoraster FOS buddy - Vote Townie is nice. Frankly I would rather lynch Raivann (the FOS buddy) which upon flip of a scum result will prove (or at least strenght) the fact that Zoraster was in fact doing that.

I agree with this.

Show me the quote where I said it was indicative of alignment. This is *especially* pertinent because Locke asked about this, and I answered, both before you posted. Did you not read post #783?

You may not have definitively said "zoraster is scum because he isn't posting," but the intent was clear. The fact that you followed up with a vote only substantiates your intent. You can't backpedal out of this one.

[Raivann]

Not so sure about my townread on Diddin anymore, it was more of a post to get a reaction out of him.

What sort of reaction were you trying to get out of someone by declaring him a town read? The fact that you said "not so sure about the town read" means you thought he was actually town, so you were reaction fishing for diddin to slip up and not actually be town or you were reaction fishing to undermine your town read because the person you thought was town you actually thought was scum?

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Raivann

@Mina- What? This will be your 3rd game we've played together now. First one I was town, second one I was scum.
I think you must have noticed that I don't post this much when I'm scum. I'm too scared I'll f up.
Surely town Mina would notice this?

WIFOM aside, a sample size of two games isn't really indicative of much.

Yeah I didn't think diddin was particularly scummy. So I guess null leaning town would have been a better way to put it. The more info the better.What is scummy about that?
Weak case,xvart. Weak wagon hop too.

About Twilight-Their vote on Song was because they agreed with my case. Now I'm suspect #1? Out of 23 other players?

[zoraster]

Can you explain the relevance of the bolded?

Sorry, meant xtoxm, not xvart

[Twilight Sparkle]

Aargh, I desperately need to do shopping for my trip now, and I don't have time for this game. And I'm still running off gut impressions. But Sotty and hito aren't here now and haven't been posting in the QT this weekend. Just a few quick comments:

@MagnaofIllusion: I've been meaning to ask you about something. How come you attacked GreyICE for accusing you of IIoA early on D1, but never responded to this post of mine?

It rang a small bell for me at the time when you attacked an easier target with a more controversial playstyle but left me alone. Maybe it's because despite GreyICE's rhetorical skills sucking, he rang as so genuinely town from our POV, so I disliked you hammering to him to death.

@Raivann: The impression I'd got from ACoK, on the contrary, was that you posted a reasonable amount, but dug yourself into a hole with your posts. You'd contradict your own opinions and shamelessly bandwagon your town reads, attacked people for ridiculous reasons, and had bizarre opinions. I'm still not fully caught up, so I don't have time to compare your ISOs, but I got that impression from some of your play here (for example, your odd list of reads early on).

Even if there aren't multiple scum factions, my reads aren't set in stone enough within one day of the thread's opening that I can't suspect someone who's said something negative about another player. But in your defence, yes, we never mentioned any issues with you other than to agree with your ASOIAF vote. I think I'd mentioned some reservations of both you and ASOIAF to hitogoroshi on AIM, but they didn't make it into hito's big catch-up post.

I'm confused by Thor. I fail at reading him in my past experience, but I don't recall him being this jokey in either the town or scum game I've seen him replace into. My judgment is pending when he catches up more officially.

Accurate Benmage assessment in forty words or less

Good lord, we're raising Benmage and I'm voting for it thanks to my predecessor? That's hilarious. Since Magna is on there I'll presume a logical argument has been presented for the idea, and since the other player (Magua) who I'd be likely to vote is currently voting Benmage I'll presume it's generally agreed on that the logic isn't terribad. Content to sit there for the nonce - at least this way he won't be mayor

The argument is that the people on his Raise wagon read him as town. You didn't miss anything.

Do you read Benmage as town? Are you supporting his Raise right now? Or is your vote just on there because you don't know what else to do with it? At the moment, would you compromise on a Benmage Raise?

Hmm. I've debated whether or not I should cast my Raise vote in this post. If we're giving it to the player who's most likely to be town, then the dayvig makes it obvious.

Raise: hasdgfas

Leaving aside that he's obviously not a Stark, Cow would not fake a posting restriction all game (attracting) AND have a dayvig as scum when both fit perfectly with his character's flavour. Why go to all that work when he can make himself look quasi-confirmed with an ability like that?

It might also be nice to give poor Cow a bit of a voice.

That said, I'm wavering on this. Cow is the right choice if we want to ensure the ability does no harm to the town. But I hadn't thought of the POV of using the Raise as an attempt to get a read both on the Hand and the people Raising him. And admittedly, a non-self-pardoning governor in LYLO isn't an insta-loss the way a double-voter was last game. I'm just paranoid that certain players are bold enough to get away with pardoning a buddy under suspicion.

~Mina

[Twilight Sparkle]

EBWOP:

Even if there aren't multiple scum factions, my reads aren't set in stone enough within one day of the thread's opening that I can't suspect someone who's said something negative about another player

I suspect

.

~Mina

[Twilight Sparkle]

Oh, and almost forgot, but the Mina head will be V/LA from this point onward to February 28th, and won't be able to answer any questions directed to her. Good luck until then!

[Benmage]

unvote vote Raivann

we'll see but this is :

The user named "Song of Ice and Fire" got replaced out of a ASoIaF game. That is not a good sign for that slot.

Exactly. Why would someone named that get replaced? She was obviously stoked for this game, but got caught as scum early.

lol...horrible.

[hasdgfas]

>_>
proddodge
i got addicted to this King's guard game >_>

[Benmage]

This was directed at zoraster:

Are you reading the thread?

I agree.. .. lead wagon go!

unvote vote zoraster

[Zdenek]

I'm currently travelling, so I don't have too much time.

@Zd (and diddin sort of): How is that cognitive dissonance? Are you just reading me in iso again with no attempt to find out whether it makes sense in context? Because that second quote was in response to LMP that was in response to my first point. So I wasn't saying that my own case wasn't good. I was saying that BEFORE I made my post that there hadn't been a compelling case.

Looking at your posts in context you present a case on Raivann in the first, and then in the next say that you don't get where LMP is coming from.

Mod and all: I will be V/LA until Wednesday.

I should still be able to check the thread, so if I am needed for something, I should be able to post, but that is not 100% clear to me at the moment.