Cyclic Experimentation Set x01 - [Game Over]

[popsofctown]

Actually it's the opposite, even in The World According to DGB

[I Am Innocent]

I am going to put out an official plan/suggestion for D5/N5, one that I obviously agree with.

I would like the other 9 players to say if they agree with it or not. If not, please explain why so we can see if there is a better way to tweak it.

******************

Regarding the plan, one item a few people expressed concern with is that the scum may not put a kill in, to either trick us or for whatever reason.

Guess what, if we take out the purge ability D5 and the scum refuse to NK ever again at night, then with 4 confirmed townies we lynch until we win.

So the scum not putting in a NK is a GOOD THING for town. So if player X (Not confirmed) does not put in a NK order to make Player Y (Not confirmed), who they know is being tracked look like scum, it doesn't matter.

We lynch Player Y D6, and assuming DGB dies D5 we are now down to 4 confirmed, 4 non-confirmed. We track again, protect again, so forth, increasing our odds of winning.

With that said, I'll put forth the official plan suggestion in my next post.

[I Am Innocent]

IAI Official Plan for D5/N5:

Day 5

1) The four confirmed innocents state whether they have the hibernate ability or not. Nobody else states anything about the hibernate ability.

2) We lynch DGB

Night 5

1) The player with the Reuser Ability activites the Firewall/Doctor ability and protects a random Confirmed Innocent that does not have the Hibernate Ability.

2) The Roleblocker uses their ability on BunnyLover (Vanilla) assuming DGB dies as expected. Any twist in the rules where DGB is still alive after the lynch, she should be roleblocked.

3) The Tracker should be used on Player X***

4) The Monitor Ability should be used on Player Y***

5) The Hibernate Ability is circulated to one of the four confirmed innocents at the end of the night.

6) The Reuser Ability is circulated to one of the four confirmed innocents at the end of the night.

***Player X and Player Y are selected from the Non-Confirmed List of players. We can agree on who this should be after we finalize the plan strategy.[/quote]

[I Am Innocent]

EBWOP, regarding #4 above, it may also be beneficial not to say who Player Y is, other than it is one of the non-confirmed players who is also not being roleblocked or tracked.

E.G. DGB dies, BL is roleblocked, SC is tracked, the person with the monitor ability uses it on one of the other 3 players, but we do not decide on this day 5 (keeps the scum in the dark a little bit).

[Saint]

To whom

Who is passed the Roleblocker N5?

[I Am Innocent]

My suggestion, leave it up to whoever has the role currently on who to send it to.

I would say that common sense says we should not pass any protown roles to someone likely to be lynched the following day. But if DGB flips SK, we likely have 1, possibly 2, daevori left. So the need to eliminate scum pairings is probably not as important as keeping the abilities in the game.

Do you (or anyone else) think otherwise? Benefits I may be overlooking?

[Saint]

I think that's a good answer.

I don't think we need to worry tremendously about scum pairings at this point. The Daevori don't have enough places to hide as it is.

However, I think any nonessential abilities (as in "not Reuser, Hibernate, Roleblock, or Monitor") should be passed between nonconfirmed players to speed the process up.

Also and off-topic, I'm going to be genuinely disappointed if Goofball is Town after that "Scummies" defense.
It would set a bad precedent of people TRYING to win player-side Scummies...

[DrippingGoofball]

But if DGB flips SK, we likely have 1, possibly 2, daevori left. So the need to eliminate scum pairings is probably not as important as keeping the abilities in the game.

I won't flip SK dammit and you need me to kill Daevori, and you don't want the Tree Stump and the Disconnect to be re-released into the cycle.

[StrangerCoug]

Regarding the plan, one item a few people expressed concern with is that the scum may not put a kill in, to either trick us or for whatever reason.

Guess what, if we take out the purge ability D5 and the scum refuse to NK ever again at night, then with 4 confirmed townies we lynch until we win.

That makes me feel better.

[Saint]

But if DGB flips SK, we likely have 1, possibly 2, daevori left. So the need to eliminate scum pairings is probably not as important as keeping the abilities in the game.

I won't flip SK dammit and you need me to kill Daevori, and you don't want the Tree Stump and the Disconnect to be re-released into the cycle.

...so... why would you allow for that possibility in the first place...?

[LimMePls]

The "don't kill me I want a scummy" buisness is... well, scummy.

@DGB: If you're town, I will be nominating you for best replacement. I hope that makes you feel better. Also, what's with the appeal to fear in 2732? If you have role information about the abilities you've shelved coming back into play when you die, then out with it. Hinting around it and threatening us with it isn't helping. Also refusing to make those lists I've asked you for isn't helping in your quest to appear town.

I support the plan from IAI. I still think we need to lynch DGB.

[DrippingGoofball]

@DGB: If you're town, I will be nominating you for best replacement. I hope that makes you feel better.

I'll take it! <3

Also, what's with the appeal to fear in 2732? If you have role information about the abilities you've shelved coming back into play when you die, then out with it.

I do. I didn't say it? I thought I did. I certainly intended to. I'm too lazy to re-read my claim post, but I thought I did. The shelved abilities return to play.

Also refusing to make those lists I've asked you for...

I total will. I need to re-run the SCUMPUTER first. I should have it done by the end of the day.

[Saint]

Also, what's with the appeal to fear in 2732? If you have role information about the abilities you've shelved coming back into play when you die, then out with it.

I do. I didn't say it? I thought I did. I certainly intended to. I'm too lazy to re-read my claim post, but I thought I did. The shelved abilities return to play.

See my previous post.

DrippingGoofball's Scummy will be for "Best Use of Blackmail to Evade Lynch".

[DrippingGoofball]

The shelved abilities return to play when I die in a different way depending on whether I am killed during the day phase, or during the night phase.

I did mention it, in post #191.

[popsofctown]

It is actually there. Without specifics, of course.

[DrippingGoofball]

UPDATED SCUMPUTER

Helghast wagon:

RC, pops, Saint,

LMP

>>> one scum, 33 points each

SCUM found, scum was RC

TMH

wagon:

RC, IAI >>> very high likelihood that one of these is scum, if not both

.

50 points each.

>>> ONE SCUM FOUND - RC.

Pwerrox wagon:

q21

,

NeroCain

,

quadz

, pops,

TMH

,

diddin

, Saint, Bunny, WrathChild >>> ALL scum found.

DarlaBE wagon:

LMP

, implosion,

pops

, StrangerCoug,

q21

>>> Half a scum here. Pops and implosion are conf town, so that leaves 12 points to SC and LMP.

WrathChild wagon:

nhammen

,

Nero Cain

,

LMP

,

diddin

,

TMH

>>> I have a town read on LMP, but on the off chance that there is scum here, 10 points.

quadz08 wagon,

1 scumz, 15 points each:

- scum found, rest are confirmed town.

q21

Nero Cain

popsofctown

themanhimself

Saint

Bunnylover

WrathChild

nhammen

themanhimself

half a scum, 50 points

curiouskarmadog

,

Bunnylover

q21

WrathChild

StrangerCoug

LMP

=============

62 = SCoug 50 + 12
22 = LMP 22

=============

I think the above demonstrates that the strenght of wagon analysis is mostly in mid-game, towards end game, other information is more useful. We do have a pack of confirmed townies.

[popsofctown]

Have you done anything besides vote analysis this game? Besides push a case on me that's been proven false.

[Saint]

Have you done anything besides vote analysis this game? Besides push a case on me that's been proven false.

Not during the Day, unless you count the blackmail.

Whenever you're ready to present another plan or start voting, call me; otherwise, this is getting tiring (>")>

[The Eruci]

:: VoteCount 5x0 ::

LynchMePls (0) -

DrippingGoofball (1) -

popsofctown

WrathChild (0) -

popsofctown (0) -

Bunnylover (0) -

I Am Innocent (0) -

StrangerCoug (1) -

DrippingGoofball

Implosion (0) -

nhammen (0) -

Saint (0) -

Not Voting (8) -

nhammen, LynchMePls, WrathChild, Bunnylover, I Am Innocent, StrangerCoug, implosion, Saint

With 10 alive, it takes 6 votes to lynch.

[DrippingGoofball]

Have you done anything besides vote analysis this game? Besides push a case on me that's been proven false.

Not during the Day, unless you count the blackmail.

My vote analysis was GOLDEN. Save for Nero Cain, a player I thought was scum and purged when I could have purged high-paying townie targets that had juicy roles in their possession for me to shelve.

No, I purged an empty-handed Nero Cain. SELFLESSLY.

USE UR NOGGIN'

[nhammen]

Pre-emptive apology for the wall...

Also @ StrangerCoug, you say you did not recover the dayvig, but it still passed on?

I would like the holder of the Void Collector from D4 to come forward and look at the rules and see if you buy that explanation? From the instruction I got, I had to say to recover the Hibernate Ability, even though it was the only one in the void...

Also @ StrangerCoug, you say you did not recover the dayvig, but it still passed on?

That is correct.

I am going to assume that what is meant here is that you did not CHOOSE to pass it on. But you did pass it on (randomly) because the mod required it (as explained by IAI). If this is not correct, then please explain more thoroughly, but this is what I have been assuming.

@DGB: Are you still claiming you didn't have the purge ability the night NC died?

I am the new generation. I make the program evolve.

The purge is always mine.

When I purge a player, or when I hammer a player (does this become clearer now?), I get to scan them for abilities. I can shelf their abilities, or I can re-circulate them.

I got the Ability Remover shelved, because it shouldn't fall into the hands of scum.

I got the Tree Stump shelved. It is no longer a threat. The Tree Stump is in my possession, yet it does not affect me.

Let me prove it, showing that I do have a vote:

VOTE: Pops

Now, it should be abundantly clear that I have been gunning for scum, and scum alone.

If I were a SK, I'd be gunning down townies that are likely to have abilities and I would have removed them from play. I also would not have attracted attention with repeated hammers (WIFOM, I know), on players that weren't supposed to have any abilities. I have only removed abilities that were a detriment to the town.

I am NOT NK-immune. The remaining scum will kill me tonight. I am their #1 enemy. I purged two of them from vote analysis alone, and hammered two that were wagoned by the rest of the town.

I think if we lynch pops, we will win the game right there and then.

If we don't, I will be NK'd.

The shelved abilities return to play when I die in a different way depending on whether I am killed during the day phase, or during the night phase.

Letting me die in the night phase would be best.

I suspect pops will fight this one tooth and nail, because his lynch is probably the end of the road for the Daevori

I am going to say something right now. Yesterday I believed that DGB was town, and after this, I still believed it. Maybe she had me completely duped. Maybe I was an idiot. But, then I saw one sentence that doesn't sit right with me:

I got the Ability Remover shelved, because it shouldn't fall into the hands of scum.

You didn't get the ability remover shelved. The person you replaced did. So this cannot be a true reason. Were you just making up reasons for your actions after the fact? And didn't remember that you weren't in the game at this point?

Mostly this. We have a set of confirmed towns and a set of unconfirmed towns. If we mass claim all abilities, we can orchestrate the usage and passing of all the abilities in the game in such a way that we are guaranteed a town win. At least, that's my theory.

But I actually have another idea I've been brewing where we massclaim, but in a controlled way:

We have all the NON-CONFIRMEDS do full claims, including their abilities. Then the CONFIRMED players discuss the targetting AND passing of those abilities. Ideally we force NON-CONFIRMEDS to pass to NON-CONFIRMEDS. In this way we create more links between the NON-CONFIRMEDS so that when we do lynch a scum, if the game doesn't end we should generate more CONFIRMEDS. We then proceed to lynch from the pool of NON-CONFIRMEDS until we hit the final scum.

Of course the downside to the massclaiming (or even the "semi" mass claim) is we're going to be conceding a kill to the scum every night, whereas right now they don't know who the best target is (due to protective abilities).

Also, I think DGB is the only proper lynch at this point. The fewer kills in this game state the better, and there is the incredibly likely chance that she is SK anyways.

TL;DR
What I'm saying is that I think with a mass claim by the NON-CONFIRMEDS plus some optimal strategy we can game this setup from this point to an auto win.

I am considering this. Although, I would like to ask what benefits this has over our current strategy. We learn of connections either way, but in your case we learn of them 1 day earlier. Is 1 day that important? I think that just telling people to only pass (non-important) abilities to nonconfirmed players that they have no connection with would be a fine idea.

I agree somewhat DGB, but I'll tell you what I fear. By your own admission you have been "shelving" powers and have been going out of your way to be the hammer vote on players. My fear is that you are an SK with an alternate win condition: namely one that requires you to "shelve" a certain number of powers. My fear can be founded on this game where we faced an SK that had an alternate win condition tied to the mechanics of that game.

I just don't feel comfortable with you alive running amok, "shelving" things and causing what I see now as a very town-win state into a less town-favored game state. At this point, if you are town as you claim, surely you can see the benefit in limiting us to 1 NK a night and removing the SK speculation.

Wow. This seems kinda like appeal to fear. Not something I would have considered coming from you. But, I'm going to consider this, and I'm going to have to ask if our mod has done anything like this in previous games he has modded. Because you may be right.

As for the mass claim, I am not so sure about that.

I do not want the Reuser Ability claiming, that is one where the Doctor ability could be used randomly on the "confirmed innocents".

I do think if if DGB dies D5, then the hibernate ability should be rotated to a confirmed innocent going forward.

*************************

So my suggestion:

The four confirmed innocents state whether they have the hibernate ability or not.

If none do, the person with the reuser ability randomly chooses one of the four players to protect. If one does have the hibernate ability, the person chooses one of the other three players to protect tonight. All randomly, and all quietly (DO NOT COME FORWARD WITH THE REUSER ABILITY, & ESP DO NOT SAY WHO YOU WOULD BE PROTECTING).

We lynch DGB. If he dies, we roleblock BunnyLover (who has claimed 0 abilities today) and Track StrangerCoug

If we lynch DGB and for some strange reasons he survives the lynch (Treestump?), we roleblock DGB and Track BunnyLover (who once again should have no abilities).

The the end of the night, Hibernate ability, and probably (?) reuser ability should be passed to Confirmed Innocent.

Thoughts people?

I would think that a better idea than having the confirmeds each claim whether they have the hibernate is to have whoever had it on N4 (this is the one ability that has not been accounted for N4) claim whether they passed it to a confirmed or non-confirmed. Then we can decide whether we want confirmeds claiming or not. Hibernate, and reuser should be passed to confirmeds. All other abilities can probably stay among non-confirmeds, although the confirming power of the roleblock might be useful enough to keep it in confirmed hands as well.

N4 I had the Monitor ability. I monitored q21, and he had an ability.

This means that he only had the Treestump, and so there must be at least one Devori other than q21 left. Or maybe the Devori no-killed and that would not be detected?

My suggestion, leave it up to whoever has the role currently on who to send it to.

I would say that common sense says we should not pass any protown roles to someone likely to be lynched the following day. But if DGB flips SK, we likely have 1, possibly 2, daevori left. So the need to eliminate scum pairings is probably not as important as keeping the abilities in the game.

Do you (or anyone else) think otherwise? Benefits I may be overlooking?

So, that was my thought, but specify that people should be trying to create as many connections as they can with abilities they have.

[nhammen]

Actually, I think I can guess where the Hibernate must be. Derp derp. If I am right, too much has been claimed already by multiple people.

[StrangerCoug]

Pre-emptive apology for the wall...

Also @ StrangerCoug, you say you did not recover the dayvig, but it still passed on?

I would like the holder of the Void Collector from D4 to come forward and look at the rules and see if you buy that explanation? From the instruction I got, I had to say to recover the Hibernate Ability, even though it was the only one in the void...

Also @ StrangerCoug, you say you did not recover the dayvig, but it still passed on?

That is correct.

I am going to assume that what is meant here is that you did not CHOOSE to pass it on. But you did pass it on (randomly) because the mod required it (as explained by IAI). If this is not correct, then please explain more thoroughly, but this is what I have been assuming.

You have it right.

[popsofctown]

I didn't have the hibernate N4, who did?

[I Am Innocent]

Pre-emptive apology for the wall...

Also @ StrangerCoug, you say you did not recover the dayvig, but it still passed on?

I would like the holder of the Void Collector from D4 to come forward and look at the rules and see if you buy that explanation? From the instruction I got, I had to say to recover the Hibernate Ability, even though it was the only one in the void...

Also @ StrangerCoug, you say you did not recover the dayvig, but it still passed on?

That is correct.

I am going to assume that what is meant here is that you did not CHOOSE to pass it on. But you did pass it on (randomly) because the mod required it (as explained by IAI). If this is not correct, then please explain more thoroughly, but this is what I have been assuming.

You have it right.

1) Were you told by the mod you needed to activate the DayVig from the Void?
2) If so, did you PM the mod saying you activated the DayVig from the Void?