Newbie 1060: It's a Murder Mystery (Game Over)

[Voidedmafia]

As much as I love the Miles Edgeworth gifs, can you maybe switch it up and throw in some Fredrika and others?

Spoiler:

Why would I do that? If I wanted to use Franziska or someone else, I would've decided before we started.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Because Variety is good.

Of course, not like the Ace Attorney series can hold a hat to Umineko anyway.

[Otolia]

GUYS, can we plz focus here. Serious business !

[Lady Lambdadelta]

We are waiting for someone to come back from a prod. He will respond to our questions, claim and then we decide what to do.

Beyond this, there is little to do at the moment but wait and exchange pleasantries.

[GreyICE]

Well I'd kinda LOVE to hear from primate and Mhi.

Claim is totally optional, as it's always bullshit in this setup

[Mhi200]

I'm would possibly hammer, but will wait for his defense. I should probably have left my vote there in the first place, I only unvoted because the wagon was falling apart and I thought everyone else was more-or-less decided on not voting for snow. The two replacements changed that, of course

[Equinox]

Vote Count 1.13

snowjorden (4) - GreyICE, Otolia, Lady Lambdadelta, Sarg338

Mhi200 (1) - Primate
Otolia (1) - mb53
Voidedmafia (1) - snowjorden

Not Voting (2) - Voidedmafia, Mhi200

With 9 alive, it's 5 to lynch.

The deadline is Friday, March 4, 2011, at 11:59 PM EST (UTC-5).[/area]

Mod Notes

snowjorden has been prodded by request.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

inb4 vote count

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Shit. I thought Equi was bumping for a new page vote count :3 Dammit.

[GreyICE]

I'm would possibly hammer, but will wait for his defense. I should probably have left my vote there in the first place, I only unvoted because the wagon was falling apart and I thought everyone else was more-or-less decided on not voting for snow. The two replacements changed that, of course

No like actual input not stuff that makes me think you're scum...

[Mhi200]

What do you want me to say? Time/timezone restrictions mean I came home to between 1-4 pages, and then not much happens while I am on and able to actively reply. By the time I can post about something, someone else has usually beaten me to it, and because being agreeable is supposedly scummy, I don't see the point in killing myself by backing someone up over anything less than a wagon at this point.

Preview edit: Talking to ICE

Preview Preview Edit: This was meant to be right after the above quoted post.

[GreyICE]

Eh, give us some general town and scum reads or something, say why you think SnowJordan is scummy, something.

Hell, want to have some fun? Read over past games of mine and other people's, and look who was town and scum, and how we identify them (or how we screw up and mislynch). Then decide whether or not we're doing A or B here.

As I said, you really feel like an obvious mislynch at this point, and it's because you're just kinda floating. I am pretty sure you're town, but it's irritating me

[mb53]

Spoiler:

So, by obvious mislynch, do you mean "he's the one that we really shouldn't lynch today" or "He's certainly not going to flip the way we might expect if he's lynched"? Or some other option that I don't know of.

Obvious mislynch - the person who is town, but who is most likely to just get lynched for non-responsiveness / general newbishness.

You learn to separate them from scum eventually, but it can be a royal pain in the ass.

Exactly, you think mhi is the mislynch, I say jorden is.

After reading over SnowJordan's ISO, I'm ok with lynching him. If he flip scums, I have someone in mind who could possibly be his scum buddy.

Vote: SnowJordan

L-1.

I'm sure that "somebody" will be me.

Sarg's vote is very scummy, whether jorden is town or not. If he is town, than its a very scummy bandwagoning vote. If he is scum, this could easily be a last attempt to bus and look town since it looks like snow jorden is going to be lynched >_>

Mb53 or someone else will hammer him.

I don't plan on it.

GUYS, can we plz focus here. Serious business !

Sorry, I couldn't resist.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Dude... You don't bus your scum buddy on Day 1 in an open set up with only 2 scum.

[Primate]

sorry, I make my posts in the preview window Right, general game opinions, not responding to Greyice post yet (I am aware of it).
Lady Lambdadelta Zensei
-
I actually thought Zensei had a decent head on him and agreed with what he was saying, so it was a bit of shame to see him go

I thought Lady Lambdadelta vote and reasoning on snowjordan was oppurtunistic and completely unaccepting of the fact that she was talking to a newbie and I didn't like it. The first two things in her list there are things that require previous knowledge, and she doesn't seem to internalize the fact that this newb obviously wouldn't have that. I think the last points weak as well, as he he clerly gave a reason as for why he was doing it. Now, that reason wasn't interally consistent, but I would jus ask, not throw a vote on at that point (not that I'm you, so this is kind of a moot point). The reason I dislike it generally is becuase it is a third vote on a wagon. The third vote is generally the vote that moves a wagon from a factor to being a plausible lynch for the day, and it has a huge rep for being scummy becuase it is a vote scum generally take because they can hide in not being groundbreaking and coming up with their own opinions/hiding in the crowd, and they are also pusing the wagon into being the aforementioned lynch possibility. It's an old school scumtell and if I explained it badly say so, because it's parts are still very valid. Anyway, I dislike it in this case because I thought the reasons LLD was going on were weak.

LLD streches a lot in what she says as well. I literally rolled my eyes when she posted the

Nice Scum Claim bud. In my PM, the XXX is replaced by MY NAME.

simply because she said it like it was some kind of revelation when I'd hope everyone here had twigged that it could easily be faked and that claim was functionally useless upon seeing it for the first time, especially after discussed it earlier in the game. (I also think that it was fairly blatantly a defiant gesture w/claim included, not an honest attempt to clear himself by claiming boilerplate townie, but that's my read, not yours.)

--
Mhi200 -

There's the thing I mentioned before with Mhi but honestly since then I've haven't really minded him. He's been quiet, but I don't think he's been noticably so, if you get me. I like the calmness and the fact he is actively trying to respond to criticisms against him and not hope they go away, I think that speaks pretty well for him.

--
Otolia mammut -

Very sure Oto is town. Very transparant posting.
Posting views on all townies when not under pressure to do so is town, and the fact that she is finding more people scummy than town speaks well, as generally scum set more people aside as town than scum. I like the fact that he was anal about knowing whether Sarg and Void had worked together previously, as I feel that that kind of conspiracy forming is town. I also really like the move to end the day as soon as he enters. It's an incredibly easy pattern for scum to fall into, extending the end of of a day for the sake of it, and arguing for quick end isn't something townies do often. His attack on MB53 is plausible, and I really like the opinion that MB53 is using SE status to make people more uncomfortable in their own reads. I don't agree with it, but it's a clever thing to think and implies the thought behind. I also liked the offhand dismissal of the MB53 rebuttal to his argument, as he is obviously active, so the fact he was willing to do that showed confidence in his views and his position indicative of town.
--
Sarg338 -

Scummy. Since the snowjordan wagon appeared on wednesday he's done very little that is scumhunting related,whilst posting not infrequently, and even before that he wasn't doing a great deal. He has been coasting without his vote on anyone or making stances for a while now. Then he hits a -1 on the snowjordan wagon without really covering why, even in a basic fashion. My exact read of that would depend on how the reveal comes up, but I think his conduct this game so far has been scummy.

---
snowjorden - This is covered in my earlier post, he hasn't done anything since then.

Voidedmafia -
I'll go into detail on this if you ask me too but I'm pretty sure voided is town and I think most other people are too. I think his opinions are just incredibly transparant.

GreyICE (SE) -

I think GreyIce is wrong about some stuff, but probably town.

I liked his list of alignment ranking. I do think he's got incredibly tunnelvisioned on snowjordan being scum and is shaping his world view around that, and could really do with stepping back and reassesing things, but anyway.

mb53 (SE) -

I think his jordan view is lazy and never adaquately explained. He gets an early read based on what appears to me as little and then later into the day moves it into a posititon of being fairly sure jordan is a mislynch, a switch that doesn't feel natural. And it's not my read, but I don't really get his read on orto. Especially the fact he sticks him at #1 for something I'd probably ignore.

In red another case of pointless aggressiveness. I don't know how you behave IRL, but I ask you to stop doing that. My post wasn't stupid, it had a purpose, and it's not because you can't understand it that it is stupid.

Quoting this just for comment. Orto, it's a big failing of mafia players in general to assume that people are going to read out of their posts everything they put into them. There's nothing wrong with putting that stuff in there but, don't get pissy when they don't see it and it was important, becuase it happens to us all.

Wasn't particularly a fan of MB53's response to ortos argument in line by line like that, felt like a by the numbers effort for the sake of rebuttal, not to try and convinve the person that you are town. I also think it's a scummy way of responding to arguments generally because it gives every line equal status without a view as to their importance within context.

VOTE: Unvote

[Lady Lambdadelta]

K. I want Snowjorden lynched today.

If he flips scum, Oto is scum buddy.

If he flips town, I'm calling Sarg and Mhi200 scum.

[Primate]

Sorry, I've been dragged in a different game.

Which is no excuse, I know.

Basically, Primate's last post was a long bunch of absolutely nothing. I hate to say it, but it really was. Read this paragraph for instance:

There were a couple of reasons I went after mhi. It was mostly because I'd just got a more positive read off of snowjordan and was looking for somewhere else to go, and on first read he seemed somewhat sideliny. That read didn't actually hold beyond a cursory look (he was second on snowjordan), but I noticed a couple of things that I wanted to ask him about, so I went with it anyway. His responses were pretty legitimate, actually. I questioned the use of the word suspicious because I thought he might be hiding in ambiguity there, but turns out he wasn't, and I can entirely see why someone would find voideds move away from snow peculiar, and I agree with him it didn't really seem spurred by anything. The other point I'm still a little dubious about, is that he said

Also, snowjorden seems to be painting a target on anyone who is currently or will in the future attack him.

This is mainly because both MB53 and Sarg were trying to attack snowjordan at the time, and he had a town read on Sarg and didn't mention his thoughts on MB53, so I thought it was a bit disingenous. If you take it the way it was explained by mhi, that whenever he said guys he was talking to everyone, It's a little better, I still don't think it's an accurate read of the situation.

It looks like content, it adds ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to our game.

Then this gem:

I'm not saying I think snowjordan is town, but I came out of that argument feeling a lot better about him and wanting to look somewhere else for a bit.

Uh... okay, Primate. So so far you have some semi-town reads on some people, Snow Jordan might kinda be scum, and some other people seem townish? No commentary on me, Otolia, or anyone else?

Ugh. I have a policy of not lynching the IC on day 1, but this is such a content-free post that seems to be saying something and does nothing that it's screaming experienced scum waiting for the town to turn on itself to me.

I'm going to say SnowJordan/Primate scumteam.

That really depends entirely on what information you wanted. I thought that post did a pretty good job of explaining why I don't know whether snowjordan is scum or not and why I voted mhi and how I now felt about that vote.

Picking up on it for not having commentary on you, Otolia, anyone else other than Mhi/Snow feels nitpicky when I said in the first line that it wouldn't be about the current game state, and I wasn't trying to write that post to address that, it was meant to be a response to the people earlier who were speculating about the first line of that post I made, and partially you, who called me scum buddy for making it. I also threw in my explanation of the vote on mhi as well because contextually it made sense in there.

[Otolia]

Otolia

Very sure Oto is town. Very transparant posting.
Posting views on all townies when not under pressure to do so is town, and the fact that

she

is finding more people scummy than town speaks well, as generally scum set more people aside as town than scum. I like the fact that

he

was

anal

about knowing whether Sarg and Void had worked together previously, as I feel that that kind of conspiracy forming is town. I also really like the move to end the day as soon as he enters. It's an incredibly easy pattern for scum to fall into, extending the end of of a day for the sake of it, and arguing for quick end isn't something townies do often. His attack on MB53 is plausible, and I really like the opinion that MB53 is using SE status to make people more uncomfortable in their own reads. I don't agree with it, but it's a clever thing to think and implies the thought behind. I also liked the offhand dismissal of the MB53 rebuttal to his argument, as he is obviously active, so the fact he was willing to do that showed confidence in his views and his position indicative of town.

In red another case of pointless aggressiveness. I don't know how you behave IRL, but I ask you to stop doing that. My post wasn't stupid, it had a purpose, and it's not because you can't understand it that it is stupid.

Quoting this just for comment. Orto, it's a big failing of mafia players in general to assume that people are going to read out of their posts everything they put into them. There's nothing wrong with putting that stuff in there but, don't get pissy when they don't see it and it was important, becuase it happens to us all.

Lol ! You seem rather not sure whether I'm Orto or Oto or Otolia, if I'm female or male. So this goes to all of you :

I'm a man, and you can either use Oto or Otolia as my pseudo

.

K. I want Snowjorden lynched today.

If he flips scum, Oto is scum buddy.

If he flips town, I'm calling Sarg and Mhi200 scum.

Would you mind explaining your reasoning behind my scumbuddiness ? Because I launch the train of Snowjorden after you all get frisky about it ?

[Voidedmafia]

Now THAT is a gem of a picture. (to mb)


In any case, I would like you to explain your read on me, Primate. No sense in giving opinions (content-laden or not) on everyone else and then just skipping over me. In fact, one could think it'd be pretty suspicious to just tread over me like that.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Sure thing Oto. You were on that wagon for a long time now. It wasn't taking off until replacements came in and voted in it.

Now that it's being considered the best lynch for today, you hop off it and start attacking anyone BUT snow.

Seems to me like the scum buddy doesn't want to bus his friend day 1. I wouldn't.

[Otolia]

Sure thing Oto. You were on that wagon for a long time now. It wasn't taking off until replacements came in and voted in it.

Now that it's being considered the best lynch for today, you hop off it and start attacking anyone BUT snow.

Seems to me like the scum buddy doesn't want to bus his friend day 1. I wouldn't.

Do an ISO. I never changed my vote since I replaced mammut. I also stated that I wanted answers from Snowjorden who didn't feel like it. If you really don't wanna see your mistake here, I will prove it to you.

[Otolia]

In any case, I would like you to explain your read on me, Primate. No sense in giving opinions (content-laden or not) on everyone else and then just skipping over me. In fact, one could think it'd be pretty suspicious to just tread over me like that.

If I am not mistaken, GreyICE already said that you were very linear and thus easily readable for experienced players. I guess it's the same for Primate.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Sure thing Oto. You were on that wagon for a long time now. It wasn't taking off until replacements came in and voted in it.

Now that it's being considered the best lynch for today, you hop off it and start attacking anyone BUT snow.

Seems to me like the scum buddy doesn't want to bus his friend day 1. I wouldn't.

Do an ISO. I never changed my vote since I replaced mammut. I

also stated that I wanted answers from Snowjorden who didn't feel like it

. If you really don't wanna see your mistake here, I will prove it to you.

So you think the best way to get answers from Snowjorden is to... Unvote him?

[snowjorden]

Sorry it's taken me so long to get back on. I watched WWE Elimination Chamber and spent some time with my girlfriend after the kid left. I'm navigating back to page 7/8 and picking up where I left off. In due time (tonight) I will have posted and responded to ALL criticism, thoughts, and the like. I realize I'm at L-1 right now, hopefully people will hold off until I have a chance to put a "defense" up (the "" because people were on me about defensiveness before, so I want to speak carefully).

[snowjorden]

EBWOP: Okay, I'm at L-2 now, apparently. Either way, working on a post starting ..now!!