Mafia 126 - Lovers Mafia! [Game Over]

[Mariyta]

I think part of Tragedy's scumminess comes from her grammar.

[Mariyta]

Or maybe I should say, her ideas don't always come across as she intended.

[DarlaBlueEyes]

hey guys, here now. Sort of. Reading all the stuff I've missed, but I have several games to catch up in so I might be slow in getting a response up. I'll reply in order of game deadlines.

[Tragedy]

Please do so while you're at it, DBE.

I see now why it's a good tip to not play so much games at the same time... [Yes, I saw you get brutally lynched in a Newbie game too...]

[xRECKONERx]

hey guys, here now. Sort of. Reading all the stuff I've missed, but I have several games to catch up in so I might be slow in getting a response up. I'll reply in order of game deadlines.

DBE PLEASE HURRY UP AND DO SOMETHING SO WE CAN ALL EITHER BE LIKE 'O WOW SHE MAKES A GOOD POINT' OR 'LETS LYNCH HER'

[Tragedy]

OR "THAT'S SO OBVIOUS".

[GreyICE]

OH MY GOD THIS GAME IS STILL GOING ON?

[Mariyta]

OH MY GOD THIS GAME IS STILL GOING ON?

QFT.

@mod: When is our next deadline?

[GreyICE]

OH MY GOD THIS GAME IS STILL GOING ON?

QFT.

@mod: When is our next deadline?

HOW DOES IT MATTER? IF WE DEADLINE NO LYNCH WE NO KILL ETC. ETC. ETC. ETC. ETC. ETC.

[Mariyta]

A) People are more active if a deadline is close by.
B) We've already discussed how the stall till deadline-no lynch-stall-rinse-repeat process really only benefits scum.

[Mariyta]

And quit posting in caps. They're not necessary at this point.

[Antihero]

UNVOTE: UNVOTE:
VOTE: Mariyta

[Mariyta]

For?

[EmpTyger]

PO:
But that's not what Grey's been doing today. He's been doing the opposite. See my [742].


Mariyta:
A) There is no deadline. A deadline requires a consequence if it hits. There is no consequence in this setup. It's as if the mod automatically gives us a 3 week extension.
B) Repeated no-lynch stalls benefit whoever gets the most benefit from a draw. Which isn't always going to be antitowns.


Kise:
...Isn't that exactly what I've been saying?

The goal is to distinguish between who is promoting that kind of play, and who is reacting to it. The *last* thing I think we should do is lynch based on a single criteria, like lurking. That's Llama's interpretation.

Antitowns are sowing confusion. Protowns are being confused by it.
Lurking could indicate either. Which is why protowns need to actively think about what's going on and analyze the full context. Instead of the knee-jerk, thoughtless, jump-on-whatever-the-last-thing-said play which the antitowns are promoting.

Also, which do you feel is worse: having 0-2 suspects or having 10-14. (Not being rhetorical; I'm not entirely sure.)


vezok:
What would you rather I talk about?

[Llamarble]

Emptyger's play this game seems really weird to me. He's harping on people "creating confusion" and his scumlist is pretty heavily opposed to mine. Seems like a lot of information/politicizing/weshoulddothis as opposed to analysis. He's difficult to get an alignment read on though. I just want more "X is scum/town because Y" posts (this applies to everyone, I suppose).

I also love how Llamarble calls me opportunistic. Let's go look at his votes, shall we?
Early vote on Umbrage
Then follows Umbrage and AH onto Emptyger, who was getting heavy suspicion at the time
Ooo, then he jumps onto the Kcda wagon, putting Kcda at 6 votes
He stayed off the q21 wagon, but happily declared that they were town. His "suspects" at this time were Kcda, Esp, and me/Tragedy (no surprise there, considering I've been going after him since the beginning).
He did grow a pair and place his own vote this morning, with semi-decent reasoning (most of it stolen from others).

And we've already explained Llamarble's point on Tragedy. Good play =/= Not scum. It has been mentioned, repeatedly, that there are two scum teams. One team can easily be hunting the other and make valid cases against them. We can agree with those cases and someone's reasoning, while still thinking they're scum.

Rather than defend accusations of opportunism, Mariyta chooses to put down my voting record and call it opportunistic. My early votes on Umbrage & Emp were hardly likely to produce a lynch, so what's opportunistic about them? Then I voted Kcd after explaining that I felt he was fake-scumhunting. Then I _defended_ the townies who got lynched yesterday. That's the opposite of opportunism; I tried not to get a townpair lynched and put myself in a situation where an Umbrage scumflip would've made me look quite bad. And then she says my vote today has decent reasoning. So where is this opportunism accusation coming from?

And if you think somebody is making good cases with good reasoning, what about them is scummy?

VOTE: Mariyta

I do think her pair has been opportunistic. They've been on most of the major wagons this game and haven't particularly defended anyone. Tragedy's stance on Vezok still doesn't really make townsense to me. Nothing in their posting makes me think "huh, this doesn't makes sense if these two are scum."

[Mariyta]

This is pathetic. Now that my bandwagon is started, all the lazy lurkers/scum are just going to pile on without much thought. The scum have this game won if they just stay active and start the bandwagons. The points being raised are null at best, so if that's the basis you guys want to lynch on, go ahead. Sorry Tragedy.

Mariyta:
A) There is no deadline. A deadline requires a consequence if it hits. There is no consequence in this setup. It's as if the mod automatically gives us a 3 week extension.
B) Repeated no-lynch stalls benefit whoever gets the most benefit from a draw. Which isn't always going to be antitowns.

I've already answered this and it has been discussed elsewhere in this thread as well.

[Antihero]

This is pathetic. Now that my bandwagon is started, all the lazy lurkers/scum are just going to pile on without much thought. The scum have this game won if they just stay active and start the bandwagons. The points being raised are null at best, so if that's the basis you guys want to lynch on, go ahead. Sorry Tragedy.

Regardless of how you flip, I think Tragedy is the one who needs to be apologizing to you.

Ah, son of b#$%^. Looking through Tragedy's ISO, I realize she's not as scummy as I thought.

UNVOTE:

Let's see who my vote needs to go on.

[Kise]

What I'm doing, Emp, is asking Llama if that quote is what he was referring to. Let's give him time. I'm hoping your question isn't strawmanning like I think it is, but I'll answer anyway... Actually screw that, I'm not answering it that way. It's about more than (we're talking about Purp, right?) having 10-14 suspects. In fact, it's not even suspects. She wants to lynch that amount of players to

fix the issue

of stagnant activity, while also listing minor points she felt were scummy coming from each pair to justify her being behind each of their lynches.

I got you, Purp... I got you. Later.

[xRECKONERx]

Isn't deadline plurality lynch?

[Tragedy]

Hey Llamarble.

You

hadn't

even spoke against Vezok lately.

Any reads on vezok, sir?

[PrayPiotr]

I'm caught up, but I'd still like to do some re-reading before posting a more. I probably should have looked at the amount of work it would take to get caught up befopre replacing into this game. I appreciate Kise picking up the slack for us and I plan to huddle with him a bit later. I still think the q21 wagon has a bit of content that could be discussed a bit more, so I'll probably start there. I also want to reread the exchanges about "people beig married" again, because I think that may be able to provide a bit more content. That's all I have to add at this point, I kinda want to see what my Lovers thoughts on Purp and Emp are and go from there.

[Llamarble]

I'd like a votecount

@Kise/Emp: That's the right quote. He's saying town can't sit back passively and hope to win (lurking is bad). But he mostly wants to lynch people who are being active and thinks lurky players are town (see his earlier scumlist post). This is sort of consistent with his "scum are coordinated and seeking to dominate the thread," but saying town should be assertive and then labeling the most assertive players as scum is very confusing to me. I thus find it amusing that he is telling us the scum will try to sow confusion. I just reread him and am now leaning scum a bit due to his long-term tunneling with not too many read updates and focus on this minor issue. Last I heard from Darla she was saying she found Thingy pretty scummy. I guess I'll make a more thorough effort to read him & Vezok next.

[Llamarble]

Vezok is null to slight town. Some bandwagony stuff, but a couple of towntells that would've been clever if he's scum.
Emp is very consistent and appears to be scumhunting, whatever alignment he is. I see relatively scant towntells from his pair, but he was against the Q21 mislynch.
I don't want to lynch him today.

[Nero Cain]

I don't want to lynch him today.

Emp or both Emp and Vezok?

[Llamarble]

That sentence referred to Emp, but I also don't want to lynch Vezok today so either interpretation is fine.