A Storm of Swords - Lay your swords down!

[Magua]

Do the asterisks mean neutral?

If you're referring to that bar thing, yes.

[danakillsu]

And that is scummy.

I'm not worried about looking scummy.

Do the asterisks mean neutral?

Maybe not, but that doesn't excuse you from the standpoint of anyone else. And frankly, a townie should be worried somewhat about looking scummy, because a townie who acts too scummy gets lynched, and townies shouldn't want to get lynched because it hurts their wincon. The only person who shouldn't be worried at all about looking scummy is a jester (although of course I'm not saying that's what you are).

[Benmage]

How about I can't be lynched....So I'm not worried about looking scummy.

[Ghostlin]

2. Marking this relational tell down for later – if Zoraster does turn out to not be scum (which I doubt) Nexus likely is.

To some degree number 2 should also apply to Danakillsu since he is making similar statements

Why? I mean, I know there's chainsaw defending, and I'm aware of making scum making connections to a townie in an attempt to make them more town seeming. But this relatonal tell seems to be based on this assumption that first of all that scum would be trying to make this on a townie, when scum could be defending other scum, or a townie doesn't like the most prominent points of your case.

Also, you sort of post text walls, which make people naturally pick and choose what they read, skim for comprehension. I don't find that scummy, necessarly, but people.

[Eddard Stark]

Vote count 1.22

Mikujin (3) Danakillsu, Locke Lamora, Thor665
xvart (1) DTMaster
DTMaster (1) Shadow1psc
Thor665 (1) Twilight Sparkle
Drippinggoofball (1) Mikujin
Raivann (7) Feysal, diddin, Zoraster, Bunnylover, xvart, Nexus, Ghostlin

Zoraster (8) MagnaofIllusion, DrippingoofBall, Kast, LynchMePls, Raivann, Magua, Zdenek, Benmage

MagnaofIllusion (1) chesskid3


Not voting (1) Hasdgfas

With 24 alive it takes 13 to lynch.

Raise Count 1.22

Locke Lamora (1) Locke Lamora
Twilight Sparkle (3) Bunnylover, xvart, DTMaster
DrippingGoofball (1) Danakillsu
Danakillsu (1) chesskid3

Benmage (7) Benmage, Thor665, diddin, Mikujin, MagnaofIllusion, Zdenek, Magua

Magua (4) Hasdgfas, LynchMePls, Feysal, Raivann
Hasdgfas (1) Twilight Sparkle


Not raising (6) Nexus, Ghostlin, Zoraster, DrippingGoofball, Kast, Shadow1psc

With 24 alive it takes 13 to raise someone. As it stands at deadline Benmage will become the new Hand of the King

* Mikujin and Kast have expressed they'll be V/la.
*

Shadow1psc will be prodded.

Since it was the weekend I'll be lenient untill tomorrow.
*Any mistakes in the votecount please point them out.
* Deadline countdown is here
* Just around 3 days 9 hours till deadline

[MagnaofIllusion]

EVERYONE NEEDS TO BE PAYING ATTENTION –

Deadline is in approximately 3 days.

We don’t have much time to be messing around with singleton / doubleton cute votes for either lynch or Hand raise.

The following players need to get their votes to somewhere it might be effective as deadline approaches –

Lynch

- DTMaster, Shadow, Twilight Sparkle, Mikujin, Chesskid, Cow

Raise

– Locke, Dana, chesskid, Twilight Sparkle, Nexus, Ghostlin, Zoraster, DGB, Kast, Shadow.

@MOD – you still have Percy listed instead of Ghostlin in the Raise Counts.

--

Of all the things I strive for,

consistency is not high on the list

. I found Zoraster scummy. I wanted to see his response to what was going on. By the end of the day (when I posted), he still had not responded, and I was annoyed. Hence, the post.

The bolded explains why I don’t have a read on you that’s Town.

If you are Town and don’t think consistency in stances and opinions is important you are playing suboptimally.

If you are Scum I can’t fault you. Scum don’t want consistency. Cognitive Dissonance is how many scum get caught.

--

Why? I mean, I know there's chainsaw defending, and I'm aware of making scum making connections to a townie in an attempt to make them more town seeming. But this relatonal tell seems to be based on this assumption that first of all that scum would be trying to make this on a townie, when scum could be defending other scum, or a townie doesn't like the most prominent points of your case.

It’s not chainsawing as much as having a read that believes what is being said.

Read that post by Nexus again. He’s going out of his way to say that Zoraster is being scummy but he’d rather see Raivann lynched. Zoraster is the clear leader at this juncture. Note how Nexus looks to explain away scummy behavior by Zoraster in a soft manner.

It’s a fairly well known tactic for scum to push against a popular lynch when they know the target is Town. In this case he’s pushing very softly but is still ‘pushing’.

Also, you sort of post text walls, which make people naturally pick and choose what they read, skim for comprehension. I don't find that scummy, necessarly, but people.

Um, what? I’m not sure what you are trying to say here. If you are asking me to change my posting style don’t expect that to happen anytime soon.

[Twilight Sparkle]

I've fallen out of touch with this game. Not sure what it is. Part of it is that there a lot of new faces for me and it's hard to remember each players contributions. A lot of spammy chit-chat, a lot of mechanics babble. As Mina has said, this has led me to a reduced presence in QT.

So, I'm gonna pretend I'm replacing in and throw down an ISO spectacular. Alphabetical by the first person in the slot. Mina is on vacation, and Sotty is sick, so this is mostly gonna be me (though I have my compatriots gut reads from the QT.) Let's roll.

ISO Spectacular

Benmage

His quote walls are goddamn unreadable. Jeepers creepers man. That being said, when I actually put my waders on and slosh around in the walls, Ben seems fairly townish. DGB makes a soluble point that Ben wouldn't so casually advocate mass policy lynching as scum. He also said in his ISO 30:

Yeah I have balls as scum...but not as big as my town balls.

I'm definitely seeing his "town balls" here. It's the typical arrogant swagger I expect (and not necessarily enjoy) from Ben. His impetus to contribute seems town, as well.

So yeah, while I'm annoyed at his unreadable quote-walls (seriously man, pare it down!) I think Ben is town. As for why we don't want to raise you, Ben, it comes down to this:

I'm gonna use it as badassly as I can. Moar Raises.

The simple fact is, Governor isn't something that should feel bad-ass. If someone is in danger of being lynched, that means that they are someone a majority of people want flipped. At least some of them are townies. Even if you personally don't agree with a wagon, Governoring it can often lead to more issues down the road - what if they keep looking scummy? What if your read was wrong and you gave a scumbag a new lease on life?

If Governor is used at all, it should be used very carefully, and you seem like exactly the player who would be 100% confident that you are absolutely right and the majority of people are absolutely wrong on what someone is going to flip. Not the kind of person I want with governor. :p

(A note to the town at large - why not cow? Cow needs a voice as is, and is almost certainly town.)

Bunnylover

Not too much content here. Bunnylover's focus on Benmage's kill-the-VI's policy is understandable, given that Bunnylover was the third on his list.

@Bunnylover:

What is your current read on hascow?

He votes Raivann as a self-admitted sheep of Zde 596, but Zde's 596 is fairly convincing so I can't fault him for that one.

Overall, too early to say. He's cautious, but when the game started with someone calling for your policy lynch, caution is understandable.

Chesskid

75 post spammy annoying VI that I don't have the goddamn patience to deal with three days until deadline. A Chesskid vig would be radical.

---

EVERYONE NEEDS TO BE PAYING ATTENTION –

Deadline is in approximately 3 days. We don’t have much time to be messing around with singleton / doubleton cute votes for either lynch or Hand raise.

The following players need to get their votes to somewhere it might be effective as deadline approaches –

Lynch - DTMaster, Shadow, Twilight Sparkle, Mikujin, Chesskid, Cow
Raise – Locke, Dana, chesskid, Twilight Sparkle, Nexus, Ghostlin, Zoraster, DGB, Kast, Shadow.

As for lynching - yeah, I'm powering through the game right now. I still think Thor has a good chance of being scum but we'll let him catch up first. Rest assured in the eleventh hour I will vote for anything if this catch-up isn't done in time.

As for raising - I'm advocating a mass exodus to raising cow. If anyone disagrees, please, let me know why ASAP. If you don't disagree, raise cow.

More ISOS from me soon.

-hito

[zoraster]

Fair enough

Raise: hasdgfas

[Ghostlin]

1.

Why? I mean, I know there's chainsaw defending, and I'm aware of making scum making connections to a townie in an attempt to make them more town seeming. But this relatonal tell seems to be based on this assumption that first of all that scum would be trying to make this on a townie, when scum could be defending other scum, or a townie doesn't like the most prominent points of your case.

It’s not chainsawing as much as having a read that believes what is being said.

Read that post by Nexus again. He’s going out of his way to say that Zoraster is being scummy but he’d rather see Raivann lynched. Zoraster is the clear leader at this juncture. Note how Nexus looks to explain away scummy behavior by Zoraster in a soft manner.

It’s a fairly well known tactic for scum to push against a popular lynch when they know the target is Town. In this case he’s pushing very softly but is still ‘pushing’.

1. That makes sense, but wouldn't you want to investigate THAT irregardless of the flip, knowing the productivity for bussing, no matter how gentle?

2.

Also, you sort of post text walls, which make people naturally pick and choose what they read, skim for comprehension. I don't find that scummy, necessarly, but people.

Um, what? I’m not sure what you are trying to say here. If you are asking me to change my posting style don’t expect that to happen anytime soon.

That

comment about text walls was in reference to

this

:



2.[quote="MagnaofIllusion]1. You clearly aren’t reading closely since I’ve posted a case that includes more than ‘role-fishing’ and not raising.[/quote]

I'm making the point that I had to go through 32 pages of posts to get my reads. I tried to read as thoroughly as possible, but I admit I didn't read it all in detail nor would I be able to regurigate it on command. You don't have to change your posting style, however, it is entirely possible they could of missed your other reasoning in one of your longer posts. Can you summarize the crux of the case you posted? That way there's no excuse on what was and wasn't read.

[Benmage]

So yeah, while I'm annoyed at his unreadable quote-walls (seriously man, pare it down!) I think Ben is town.

Dude, I did tone it down. Considering how far I had fallen back...and how much I chose not to comment on.

As for why we don't want to raise you, Ben, it comes down to this:

I'm gonna use it as badassly as I can. Moar Raises.

The simple fact is, Governor isn't something that should feel bad-ass. If someone is in danger of being lynched, that means that they are someone a majority of people want flipped. At least some of them are townies. Even if you personally don't agree with a wagon, Governoring it can often lead to more issues down the road - what if they keep looking scummy? What if your read was wrong and you gave a scumbag a new lease on life?

If Governor is used at all, it should be used very carefully, and you seem like exactly the player who would be 100% confident that you are absolutely right and the

majority of people

are absolutely wrong on what someone is going to flip. Not the kind of person I want with governor. :p

Yes when the majority consitutes VI-s and scum. There are always people I respect whose opinions I would respect.

As for using it badassly...I doubt I even use it before dying, So the point is moot. Moreover the ability sucks. Like I said ages ago.

[MagnaofIllusion]

That

comment about text walls was in reference to

this

:

2.

1. You clearly aren’t reading closely since I’ve posted a case that includes more than ‘role-fishing’ and not raising.

I'm making the point that I had to go through 32 pages of posts to get my reads. I tried to read as thoroughly as possible, but I admit I didn't read it all in detail nor would I be able to regurigate it on command. You don't have to change your posting style, however, it is entirely possible they could of missed your other reasoning in one of your longer posts. Can you summarize the crux of the case you posted? That way there's no excuse on what was and wasn't read.

I see ... since I directed the quoted comment at Nexus who has been here I now get the basis of your response.

If I get time later I will go back and summarize my Zoraster case.

[Benmage]

Hey Ghostlin.

Dont vote Raivann

[Ghostlin]

I don't see why we wouldn't raise has since he was responsible for eliminating scum.

Raise: has

Mod: could you fix the quote tag(s) above? Thanks.

[Ghostlin]

Hey Ghostlin.

Dont vote Raivann

Any particular reason why not?

[Benmage]

Because you replaced in, and

I'm

asking you to.

[Shadow1psc]

I can get behind a cow raise.

Raise: Hascow

[MagnaofIllusion]

I can get behind a cow raise.

Raise: Hascow

You also need to get behind a lynch that has a prayer of succeeding. DTM is not getting strung up today, sadly.

[Shadow1psc]

Yeah, I was thinking about that. My next logical candidate would be Raivann.

VOTE: Raivann. If you need me to elaborate, sure, but I've been fairly against him for the same reasons Xtoxm flipped scum.

[Shadow1psc]

Hm, there should have been an unvote there.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Raivann

[Nexus]

If I have to raise anyone, it will be Has. If you're demanding a raise, I'll raise the cow.

raise: Hascow

[Benmage]

Look at those voting zoraster vs those voting raivann...adjust accordingly.

[Benmage]

And this all needs to get fixed right fucking now.

Mikujin (3) Danakillsu, Locke Lamora, Thor665
xvart (1) DTMaster
Thor665 (1) Twilight Sparkle
Drippinggoofball (1) Mikujin

Twilight, DTM, LL and Thor. Vote zoraster.

[Bunnylover]

@MOI: The reason you are voting Zoraster is not the reason others are voting him. The reason others are voting him, you have said only strengthening your read/vote on him.
Here the situation I see:
If we lynch Zoraster and he flips town, what happens to Raivann? Raivann still will be lynched because his post have been bad and scummy (I think one has been good). Isn't that right?
If we lynch Zoraster and he flips scum, what happens to Raivann? Raivann is lynched because the FOS Buddy - Vote Townie theory is strengthen. Isn't that right?
If we lynch Raivann and he flips town, what happens to Zoraster? The theory of FOS Buddy - Vote Townie is thrown out the window and scum now have to come up with another mislynch.
If we lynch Raivann and he flips scum. what happens to Zoraster? The theory of FOS Buddy - Vote Townie is strengthen and Zoraster is lynched due to it.

The most logical sense is to lynch Raivann.

Nothing has given us reason to believe their are multiple scum groups, so no. But if in the book their were different enemies family fighting in their, then I believe we should believe that their is multiple scum groups.
But No, I don't believe their are.

@Twilight Sparkle: I see no reason why to doubt that Hascow is town now.

[Magua]

I'm curious about those people who are raising hasdgfas now.

Yes, we're all certain that hasdgfas is not Stark. We all should've been certain of that as of 10:00 am CST Friday -- that is, some 3 days and 6 hours ago.

Yet no one bothered to raise hasdgfas during that time. I especially don't like Nexus' "If you're demanding a raise" in post #844. This isn't the sort of thing that should need to be demanded; it should be something that comes about because pro-town play is that you should do *something*, not kvetch and moan that someone is telling you to do something.

Those people who are raising hasdgfas now because a stink is being made about it are being either a) lazy and inattentive, or b) scummy.

Also, I'll get this out there in response to bunnylover: If we lynch Zoraster and he flips scum, I am inclined to believe Raivann is town. That is, I don't buy that the scenario is "Zoraster-scum FoSes Raivann-scum while voting Locke Lamora-town." I am inclined, given the state of the game, to think it is "Zoraster-scum FoSes Raivann-town while voting Locke Lamora-scum-or-town".

[Shadow1psc]

I don't see the reason for raising

anyone

over someone

confirmed

. I could have raised sooner sure, but I didn't. Still makes a ton more sense than raising benmage.