Execution Mafia GAMEOVER!

[Final Fires]

Guys, why are you egging Umbrage on? I didn't read any of this page because it's pointless. Umbrage is scum. No matter how many words she types, her role pm stays the same. So we don't need to assplode the thread.

^This. He hasn't provided one good defense, and I've heard all that I need to. At this point it just feels like he's stalling, same with SO. No one has objected to an Umbrage or SO kill at this point. The only thing that's going to happen by dragging this out is that it will give them the potential to deflect the wagon on to someone else.

Here's where I stand in the nightkill:

We execute umbrage/SO. He flips scum. Odds are pretty good that the other is scum; go ahead and NK the other.

We execute umbrage/SO. He flips towns. We just lost one town night vote for the NK. If we choose to NK someone, we risk losing two town votes for the NK. Worst case scenario, the next day we also execute a townie; we just lost a ton of power very quickly. I think it's better to take it slow and be cautious with our NK. The quicker we kill people off, the more chances we have of making mistakes. The more mistakes we make, the faster the scum will gain possession of the NK.

As for who gets the NK, I would feel the best if Am got it again. However I wouldn't be against Charter or Exe taking it either, because they've been very vocal for a Umbrage/SO execution.

[Exe]

Actually, if we use the plan of "if X is scum, lynch Y, if X is town, lynch Z", it will be more informed.

More informed than what? You seem to need an Amrun grammar lesson about antecedents, because "more informed" means pretty much nothing in this sentence.

More informed than a kill that was discussed at length? Wrong.
No amount of D1 discussion will take into account the last few posts that happen before the kill.

This is a fact

Example using arbitrary numbers:
Say at post 39 we are discussing the night kill. We could decide by post 40, but then what if there was information on post 40 that we needed to discuss? Post 40 will then be discussed, and then we'll have posts 41 and 42 that need to be analyzed.
It's an endless cycle. We

CANNOT

have discussed everything.

No matter what

the person who makes the night kill will have to analyze those last few posts ALONE.

[Amrun]

I asked you a question, Exe.

And no antecedents are actually in that Umbrage sentence, but yes, it is grammatically confused.

I am okay with no NK in specific situations like FF described above. In this situation, that seems viable.

Of course, I'd still rather kill vezok than either of them.

[Umbrage]

@ FF: You have got to be kidding me. You just refused to listen to my defence, and instead just pushed for my kill. How nice. Apparently for you, the last couple pages have given you far more information about how the scum is than the entirety of the game. I find that hard to believe.

@ Exe: No, we decide who to NK today. That means we have as much time as the first kill, and more information because of the first flip.

[Setael]

Ok I finished reading. SV is definitely scum. He's my vote for the day kill. I'll post my case when I get back from dinner. In the meantime, anyone who has time read him in ISO (or reread the whole thread). It's pretty glaringly obvious.

[Exe]

@Amrun: What question? I missed it.

@Umbrage: Clearly you didn't read my post so I'm just not responding to that. I already explained myself 3 times.

[Amrun]

@Setael: if I get my way, I will be killing either vezok or SV today. What are your thoughts on vezok?

@Exe: Full question is one page back. On my phone right now.

[Exe]

Oh, you mean regarding the whole 5 pages of content stuff?

Things change drastically after the first flip. It's not that we don't have enough information now, it's that the flip and the events surrounding the flip will greatly change the way that information is interpreted.

[Amrun]

I just don't see how accounting for flips in our choices doesn't avoid this.

[StrungOver]

Ok so the last two pages consist of the following. 1. FF being scummy. 2. Umbrage calling him out on it. 3. Umbrage making sense and scum hunting 4. Exe running in with a chainsaw 5. Umbrage defending himself 6. Exe calling him scum for it. The scum are Exe, Vezo and FF. if there is a 4th scum it's eiher SV or amrun. But other wise the dynamic trio of scum (exe vezo and ff) are just sheeping amrun like hell!

[charter]

Ok, SO can officially be added to the scumteam. It's SO, Umbrage, and Ant. We can have this game wrapped up day two.

[Amrun]

How does ant connect?

[StrungOver]

And charter how do you know there are only 3?

[Exe]

I just don't see how accounting for flips in our choices doesn't avoid this.

Did you not see the part where I pointed out that a lot happens around a flip?
It really doesn't matter what I think at this point, since most of the town is for using your kill tonight. I'm just saying that I'm against it.


Oh, another thing to realize, is that people's reactions to a flip are HUGELY important in determining scum...but we won't get to see anyone's reactions to the first flip...just saying.

[Amrun]

I am not totally against no NK for tonight only, as I've said. You wanted no NK for every single night.

[StrungOver]

Amrun can you elect to no kill today?

[Exe]

I am not totally against no NK for tonight only, as I've said. You wanted no NK for every single night.

Well we haven't gotten to other nights, so I'd say don't worry about them. Things may change to convince us to either night kill every night, or make it obvious that we shouldn't ever, so there's no real point in worrying about future nights yet.

SO is back to suggesting a no-kill during the day. Lulz.

[Amrun]

I think if Umbrage or SO is the kill, and the person flips town, no NK is viable.

It depends on the town's choice of "lynch."

[Final Fires]

@ FF: You have got to be kidding me. You just refused to listen to my defence, and instead just pushed for my kill. How nice. Apparently for you, the last couple pages have given you far more information about how the scum is than the entirety of the game. I find that hard to believe.

I listened to your defense, but none of it swayed my opinion.

I've already stated why I think SO is town. Maybe I could give a better read on him if I didn't have to defend myself from all this bullshit.

Saying you can't get a good read on SO because you're being attacked doesn't make sense.

Try again. I've given my reasoning for why I believe those are potential teams. If you disagree, ARGUE MY LOGIC. Don't try this shit about how if it's not on a single person, it's worthless.

There's no arguing that I can do, because you proved no points. Like I said, anyone can point out connections between people, and then use guesswork to reason why these connections are there. Once we have some flips we can start drawing connections between people, but until then it's just pointless speculation.

I've already said I find Tragedy scummy, so I didn't feel the need to elaborate. But here's something to add: hopping on my wagon.

I understand you find Tragedy scummy. It just conflicts with how you think I'm scummy for accusing SO of being scummy. You accuse Tragedy of being scummy for her activity level, but then when I point out the lurkers I become scummy? That doesn't make sense to me. Plus you're whole "easy target" thing - vez and tragedy are two of the three easiest targets right now. You can't accuse everyone who goes after SO of being scum because SO is an easy target, and then turn around and say vez and tragedy are scum; because they're both easy targets. What bothers me is not that you find SO town and vez and tragedy scum. It's that you've only applied your "easy target" reasoning as a way to keep discussion off of SO.

If you think there is no difference between a bandwagon and a good case, and that town cannot tell the difference, hit yourself over the head RIGHT NOW.

You keep saying that the SO bandwagon is wrong because it will draw scum. However, you have not pointed out one flaw in the arguments against him yet.

Right now you're not against the case against SO; you're against SO getting lynched.

You said you were against him getting lynched because he wasn't producing content; however now he's produced plenty of content, so that argument is invalid. I don't understand why you're still protecting him then; it only makes sense that you two are scum buddies or masons. Masons makes zero sense, because you said cooldog was scummy earlier.

This is something that I questioned SO about.

I went from your top town read to your top scum read because I accused an "easy target". However, you don't seem that troubled that SO is going after one.

Well, for one thing, Vezok has his guard dog Exe defending him. And my case on Tragedy grew as her content did.

A significant reason I think you're scum is because you've been SO's guard dog, not only defending, but chainsaw defending if need be. And (unless I'm forgetting something, which I might be), the only case you've made on Tragedy is that:

1. Her activity level
2. She joined your bandwagon

Nonono, NOW he's posted enough that my previous read on him is worthless.

Ok, then you wouldn't have a problem telling me what he posted that changed your mind.

What did he post that convinced you he was town?

[charter]

How does ant connect?

Ant is the scummiest of the three of them. If you look at Ant's, say first dozen posts, there is one small piece of content at towards the end of 74. All of Ant's talk about setup stuff and claiming and all that other junk, THAT'S active lurking. I can post setup and election discussion or strategy over whether or not to NK for an entire game and say nothing about all the players' alignments. I'm fairly certain no one in this game knows what Ant thinks about any player, other than he thinks I'm scum. You keep listing all this meaningless stuff and labeling it as "not protown" but Ant is the king of "not protown".

Also note that Umbrage doesn't ever mention Ant's activity, though I'm fairly certain his is below the activity of some people Umbrage claims aren't up to snuff, it just happens that Ant isn't voicing suspicion of Umbrage or they're scumbuddies or the most likely scenario of both.

The case on Ant is just harder to articulate than a case on Umbrage or SO, hence I put it off until they flip scum, then I can just say they're buddies and get him killed that way. Much less work for me. I would support an Ant kill above anyone else, but since he isn't ruffling any feathers or posting opinions on anybody, no one is paying him any attention. He's posting just enough words to not be accused of lurking, but he isn't saying anything.

And charter how do you know there are only 3?

I assume three scum in every mini I play in until I have reason to believe otherwise.

[StrungOver]

I am not totally against no NK for tonight only, as I've said. You wanted no NK for every single night.

Well we haven't gotten to other nights, so I'd say don't worry about them. Things may change to convince us to either night kill every night, or make it obvious that we shouldn't ever, so there's no real point in worrying about future nights yet.

SO is back to suggesting a no-kill during the day. Lulz.

I asked a question I never suggested anything. Nice mis-rep.

[Exe]

Amrun can you elect to no kill today?

It's not misrep.

There's no reason to ask about him no-killing unless you WANT him to.
If you AREN'T suggesting a no kill, then why the fuck are you asking?

But your misrep accusation makes me laugh. Hard.

[StrungOver]

Good I'm glad you simply laugh off every accusation like the scummy scum you are.
There are many reason why I would ask that.

[Amrun]

Well, what was your reason for asking?

I'm assuming if I don't execute by deadline, then there is no execution.

[Final Fires]

SO, what's the difference from Exe laughing off accusations, and Umbrage doing this:

I'm not trying to defend myself. Make a proper case against me and I'll defend myself.

And I will not respond to every single argument made against me, mainly because there is no point in responding. If you want to interpret every single thing I do as scummy, I can't stop you. Have fun with that.

And on a scale of 1 to 10, how certain are you that Umbrage is town?