Mafia 124 - Dilemma Mafia (Day 6)

[Fate]

Rephrase that sentence I really have no idea what you're trying to say.

[Fate]

Counter-productive as in if I were scum it'd be counter-productive to defend a townie like that?

[Empking]

Vote Count 38

1. bobsnox
2. DarlaBlueEyes (1) - Jahudo
3. werewolf555
4. DLG
5. Jahudo
6. Bub Bidderskins (5) - Fishythefish, DLG, llamarble, Fate, bobsnox
7. Fishythefish
8. Brokenscraps
9. DavidParker
10. Fate (4) - Yosarian2, werewolf555, Bub Bidderskins, DavidParker
11. Yosarian2
13. llarmable

Not Voting: brokenscraps, DarlaBlueEyes

With 12 alive its 7 to lynch

[Fate]

Jahundo Jahundo....

Can you please stop sitting on your lonely lil Darla bus wagon?

[Jahudo]

In Fate-scum / llama-town you had a good mislynch sitting there and it seemed like Yos and Bub would be implicated more so wouldn't you just let that all happen?

Should I start a lonely lil broken wagon? I'm not confident in the Bub wagon.

[DavidParker]

I'm curious Fate, apart from Yos, who is actually town? you seem to be of the opinion that almost everyone is scum bussing their buddy or distancing, and your only town read is someone you were voting not long ago.

[bobsnox]

Should I start a lonely lil broken wagon? I'm not confident in the Bub wagon.

I tried... ;_;

It's just not meant to be today.

[Fate]

I'm curious Fate, apart from Yos, who is actually town? you seem to be of the opinion that almost everyone is scum bussing their buddy or distancing, and your only town read is someone you were voting not long ago.

You're fucking kidding me right?

My only town read is Yosarian>?

Really? Thats what you think?

[Yosarian2]

Yeah, I had no trouble understanding your intent. I don't even attach any particular scumminess to the mistakes. I was just wondering if there was something hidden that I was missing. Your response eases my concerns because I find it likely that you might just make those mistakes if posting without really reviewing the posts.

I'm a little confused by your response here. If you knew that I meant, then why did you ask? What did you think I was trying to say? What hidden meaning did you think you saw in my post?

[Yosarian2]

In Fate-scum / llama-town you had a good mislynch sitting there and it seemed like Yos and Bub would be implicated more so wouldn't you just let that all happen?

Mmm...well, I see what you mean.

I'm still having trouble seeing any town-Fate explanation for his actions, though. His current claim, that he was trying to stop a wagon on a scummy looking, claimed vanilla townie, because he had a strong feeling that the claimed vanilla townie was town, so he faked an innocent on him; and that he was never intending to claim cop, he was always intending to claim mason recruiter, even though hypo-town-Llama would never go along with that, even though the claim would never have worked, and even though he quoted the entire normal game whitelist that didn't have mason recruiter on it, just seems so unbelievable to me. Fate is clearly a strong player and a smart guy; he might gambit, but the idea that Fate-town would go to the extreme of a fakeclaim gambit without any planning or forethought at all seems just incredibly unlikely to me. I think it's much more likely that he was planning to claim cop until I called him out on it.

Frankly, Fate, if that's true, you really should just admit it now; if you were planning to claim cop and just fell back on the mason recruiter claim to avoid being counterclaimed, and actually thought that a fake cop claim there was good for the town somehow, you should say so. Your story right now still doesn't make any sense, and you need to come clean with us here.

[Fate]

Look, there might've been SOME subconscious lying about my thought process in order to appear LESS stupid (because, admittedly, a MASON RECRUITER claim was really dumb).

Let me try to go through it one more time.

I think about Mafia in the shower, while I'm driving, daydreaming, ETC.

During one of these thought sessions, I was trying to figure out what I could do to get the ridiculous wagon off Marbletown. I knew that it was a normal game and most likely had investigative roles, so I wasn't BRAINSTORMIN anything classic like "cop" or "hider" or stuff like that. MASON RECRUITER popped into my head for god knows why, and I figured "hey that would actually be pretty cool. I mean I fake-mason claim all the time with people like Reck and Nikanor, but RECRUITER (see Blackest Night mafia for the idea), that makes sense for why Nikanor was suspicious of Ender yesterday, and if called out for who suspecting Marble on my catchup post I can just say I was just mad at Marble's reads" obvously not an exact quote but I'm pretty sure thats how it went across in my head.

BUT when it came to do said gambit in thread, I wasn't saying "ok nows the tie for that MASON RECRUITORZ gambit" I was more thinking "time to do SOMETHING this gameday will NOT end in a marble mislynch FFS while I'm alive." so I just SOFTCLAIMED that he was town and:
1. Hoped people would back the fuck off Marble
2. Mess with scum on who to kill at night

YES IT BACKFIRED. I don't know how else I can explain it, but I don't take "risks" as scum, ESPECIALLY not to save someone from a MISLYNCH.

I realize this is just a "I can't wrap my head around his thought process, therefore it must be a backpedaling fucked up claim" but I don't know how else to put it.

I already explained why I quoted the Normal list. I was looking for the THREAD on normal roles to see if mason recruiter was even there, checked the WIKI, and then posted the LIST to show you that "wow Yos, you're being REALLY uncreative if you think only two roles can figure someone as town" which was an attempt to get you to backoff without making me full-gambit fakeclaim mason recruiter, so that I could keep my original intentions of getting Marble unwagonned and messing with scum IN TACT.

[Jahudo]

This continues to remind me of the time ABR fakeclaimed cop as VT.

Hey bobs, why do you like the Bub wagon again? Is it mostly because of this:

Bub is scummy because he intentionally took it upon himself to criticize my play as scummy/poor while simultaneously acknowledging that he thinks I'm town. And all this while we're on the same wagon, trying to get Darla lynched.

Or is there more?

[DLG]

I'm a little confused by your response here. If you knew that I meant, then why did you ask? What did you think I was trying to say? What hidden meaning did you think you saw in my post?

I asked the question because confusing the names seemed odd to me. I asked the question to determine if there was something that I was missing. My conclusion is that there was not anything hidden, based on the way you responded. You didn't get hyper-defensive, you just said "yeah, I made the mistake". This is very similar to rekirtS RVS on Flinter before she was actually in the game. Just an oddity that I was curious if there was more to it.

[Llamarble]

Bub's play this game, abridged version:
Vote: FFtown
Opportunistic FOS: Llamatown
Vote: DBE for hesitancy (Maybe good enough for a vote. Not good enough for tunneling.)
More case on DBE thrown in with "meh, I think Jahudo is town" (Jahudo is buddy #1?)
FOS: Nikanor for Strikervote-> no response from Nikanor or threat to striker-> Nik is a VI (Striker is buddy #2?)
Bobsnox & Whiskytown are scumspects #1 & 2 should DBE flip scum. (woo lining up lynches & the people helping me lynch scum are scum)
Attacks Bobsnox a bunch more, thinks DBE's scumhunting of Bob is good. (top scumread is doing good scumhunting; the guys on this wagon with me are real scummy)
I'mma stay on DBE wagon because I think she's the most probable scum and if not it's a good informationlynch. (distancing from darlatownflip and preserving lynch DBE -> Snoxwhisky lineup)
Posts a bit more DBE case, this time she's justifying lurking by mentioning RL. (have I mentioned that I wasn't impressed by the reasons he was giving for DBEscum?)
Moves to my wagon after I vote him and look like I may get lynched. (Yikes this guy might get me lynched if I leave him around too long. Quicklynch gogo!)
Tunnels me for a long time for bad reasons. Like, a long time. Barely discusses any other players at all. Lots of theatrics & minimal actual case.
Jumps onto Fate when my wagon is stalled and Fate's is growing on pretext of the gambit. Fate also happens to be the counterwagon against his lynch.

Also one or both of Jahudo / DP make perfect sense as scumbuddies, as I outlined before for DP.

The world just makes all of the sense ever if Bub is scum. So can we pleaseplease lynch him?

[bobsnox]

Hey bobs, why do you like the Bub wagon again? Is it mostly because of this:

Bub is scummy because he intentionally took it upon himself to criticize my play as scummy/poor while simultaneously acknowledging that he thinks I'm town. And all this while we're on the same wagon, trying to get Darla lynched.

Or is there more?

Nope that's about it.

My scum senses are tingling as well if that counts.

Stels acted a similar way toward me in Gorrad's Favorite Fictional Characters Mafia (ended recently) and I nailed that scumbag. I think it's often a scumtell when someone goes out of his way to criticize your play and call you town at the same time. I understand someone saying "Wow your play sucks and you seem scummy because of it" (like Whisky seemed) but this is like "hey you suck but you're town..." which is obviously not scumhunting whatsoever.

And I'm pretty sure townies are more concerned with scumhunting.

[Jahudo]

unvote;
Vote: brokenscraps

[Bub Bidderskins]

unvote;
Vote: brokenscraps

Why are you voting for broken?

[Jahudo]

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 4#p2807764

[Llamarble]

My brokenscraps suspicion up until recently has been a "I've got a bad feeling but I can't put my finger on it" feeling which I've been trying to develop before I explain, but I guess I pretty much understand it now so:

696 : broken thinks llama might be scum but focuses on his wagon being bad. He doesn't explain most of his reads (including my vote, werewolfs vote, darla's vote) in this post, which looks more like keeping his options (and his reasoning) open as long as he can. It looks like he's purposefully not taking a stance on whether llama or the llama wagon looks more scum.

This attitude helped me understand some of his Day 1 play:

443 : Broken unvotes llama, while still being wary of him, and then implies that scum might be responsible for the llama wagon falling apart. Its the same as 696, he feels like he wants to put suspicion on practically everyone.

The d1 post (443) makes sense. He does indeed unvote me while being wary of me because he finds whisky more suspicious. He explains that he finds it unlikely my wagon fell apart without all 3 scum already on it (one of them would likely hammer), which isn't wholly unreasonable. (though considering the alternative wagon that actually succeeded was also on town, they may have just been saving my mislynch for later or lurking or similar)

The d2 post (696) also makes sense. He is still wary of me but thinks the votes on me are bad, and gives concise explanations why.
Werewolf: Self explanatory. Darla: sheeping accusation looks like an excuse rather than honest suspicion.
Jahudo: wants to "join the arms race" while preferring Darla lynch to either and calling motives on both sides questionable.
Bub: spending a lot of time talking about how we should lynch me because I wasn't lynched D1 / complaining about chickening out.

I'm not sure what you find suspicious about Broken. I still think you're a Bubbuddy.

[Yosarian2]

I'm not sure that makes sense, marble.

You think Bub is scum and Fate is town, right? Right now, Bub has 5 votes and Fate has 4, and we're heading towards deadline. If Jahudo was scum with Bub, he could tip the balance towards a Fate lynch.

Likewise, if Fate is scum and Bub is town, and Jahudo was scum with Fate, Jahudo could vote for Bub and tilt the lynch that way.

I don't really see any likely scenerios where Jahudo is scum here (especally since I think it's very unlikely that both Fate and Bub are scum together). Also, his reasoning in general this game has seemed town-ish.

[Fate]

Jahundo couldn't tip the balance without stretched and forced reasoning, which would out himself as scum to anyone with sharp eyes.

He can stall us all by voting some random fuck though.

[Llamarble]

One Bubbuddymotive to not vote Fate is to avoid being caught on a counterwagon. The deadline is getting fairly close, so I can also see scum stalling for either a nolynch or a vote justified by impending deadline. I don't see any reason for town to vote someone who is not currently a plausible lynch without making substantial effort to push it.

But my main point was that Jahudo's reasons for voting Broken are pretty weak. I do think DP is a more likely Bubbuddy than Jahudo.

[Jahudo]

I still like my reads.

[bobsnox]

I still like my reads.

hey me too

post count +1.

Oh did you have anything else for me? I replied about Bub

[Yosarian2]

Jahundo couldn't tip the balance without stretched and forced reasoning, which would out himself as scum to anyone with sharp eyes.

Meh. Not really; it wouldn't be much of a streach to vote for either Bub or for you here.

I mean, now, after all the time he's spent defending you, he'd have trouble voting for you right now. But that raises another good point; he's been your most eloquent and convincing defender for a while now. Hell, he's done a better job defending you then you have, and he still is, as recently as post #936. I don't at all see how that fits into a "Jahundo is scum with Bud" theory" at all.