Newbie 1066 (Game Over!)

[mozamis]

i see ya there maxous! post!

[Maxous]

Apologies for the short absence.

Also, on replacing me, I will be active and try to help the Village, it is just that it's better than lynching the doc, right? You don't want to end the first day phase to find that you've killed off one of the most important assets to the Village.

Don't put much stock into power roles.
So Garm..any thoughts on who is mafia?

The way it ends

had indeed not said too much until asked, but it is his first game on a mafia forum. And he did look like he was trying to help(although Vordiak may be right about simply trying not to look lurky).
However I don't like Trendall's vote on him, I think that would be an easy vote for a mafia to place. The reasoning of 'voting for him until he speaks' could well of been opportunistic.
Mozamis I'm still unsure of. His constant votes to get people to talk as well as stating his suspicions of players regulary make me lean town for him. He seems to genuinely try to get discussion going.
Nobody Special has'nt been giving his opinion on players(I know that is hypocritical here but still..). I would like to hear NS' thoughts on players rather than "it is too early to call scumteams" - nobody expects a concrete suspicion at this stage.

[mozamis]

he posts!

UNVOTE

[mozamis]

so, in another game, at the end, one of the scum(who lost) said "yes, i should have mentioned my scum partner at some point. not mentioning him was a mistake. so heres a list of all the players and who they havent mentioned. Not saying this proves ANYTHING, just a reference list at this point.

MOZAMIS: has NOT mentioned NO-ONE nice grammar.
VORDARK:" " RG,THIAN,MAX,NS.
RG: " "VORDARK,TWIE,THIAN,TRENDALL,NS.
TWIE: " "NO ONE
THIAN: " " VORDARK,TWIE,TRENDALL,MAXOUS,NS.
BVOIGT: " "VORDARK,TRENDALL
MAXOUS:" "NO ONE.
NS: " "VORDARK,TWIE,MOZAMIS,THIAN,TRENDALL,MAXOUS.

so by this logc, if i was scum,NS would be my partner because he hasnt mentioned me yet.
Totally realise the problems with this (eg TWIE and MOZAMIS have mentioned everyone, but obviously could just be blending in etc).
Still, i was bored

[mozamis]

on TWIE,check out post 115,p5. He does gives his views quite clearly there, so i see this bandwagon on him as lacking in any real reason.

[Vordark]

@Nobody Special:

How much weight is reasonable (or simply typical) to give to experience or inexperience in determining whether or not behavior is suspicious and worthy of scrutiny? Thus far, I have been giving it near zero weight, but I am beginning to think this may be an error.

I'd like to hear other people's reads on mozamis.

While he does look scummy, my gut is telling me newbie town.

I think it's fairly obvious that Mozamis's behavior thus far is just down to inexperience rather than some clever tactic, so the fact that people are pressuring him for it seems very shady to me.

I was writing those notes as I was reading along, and then did a summary at the end. He seemed obvtown to me at the start, but then Thian brought up the thing about inexperienced mafia playing the noob card, and it occurred to me that I've never actually played a noob-maf before, which made me uncertain. That's where that contradiction came from, and to answer your question, I am now not sure, leaning towards him being town.

That being said, I reread the thread today, and still feel like while moz appears scummy, he also (even without the claims) looks like a newbie confused about how things on the site work (voting and such). No real read here, leaning town.

bvoight, Trendall and TWIE have all noted that Moz's inexperience is playing a factor in their reads, with bvoight and TWIE both going as far as saying he looks scummy but they are actually leaning town. Given the specific behavior I mentioned previously, would bvoight, Trendall and TWIE's weighting be reasonable or at least typical?

Mozamis:
observations, okay we get it, you're a noob. Scum hide in "Noob" cards all the time, why are you bringing up your noob factor this much. Also reason for your want to pair myself up with bvoigt because we are working in tandem? You are purposely trying to misdirect suspicion off of you onto 2 others right now as a divide and confuse tactic. I don't like it.

If it is reasonable to discount Mozamis's behavior thus far on account of inexperience, Thian's continued reaction as a more experienced player bears further scrutiny and TWIE's comment here makes more sense:

I dont know what to think of Thian at all on page one he shows up and immediately starts painting moz and RG as scummy, which at the time seemed like a possibility, but now they just look like easy lynch bait, but he continues to tunnel mozamis. Possibly scummy.

Factoring newbness into the equation has struck me as a problem verging on "wine in front of me". A newb is given latitude because they are new, but a new Mafia player may use that to divert suspicion but if they

know

that people are looking for that they'll etc. Ignoring inexperience seemed to be the most prudent course of action, but given the statements above I am questioning this position.

[mozamis]

so you're suspicious of Thian?

[Vordark]

so you're suspicious of Thian?

If it is reasonable to discount Mozamis's behavior thus far on account of inexperience, Thian's continued reaction as a more experienced player bears further scrutiny and TWIE's comment here makes more sense:

I dont know what to think of Thian at all on page one he shows up and immediately starts painting moz and RG as scummy, which at the time seemed like a possibility, but now they just look like easy lynch bait, but he continues to tunnel mozamis. Possibly scummy.

Factoring newbness into the equation has struck me as a problem verging on "wine in front of me". A newb is given latitude because they are new, but a new Mafia player may use that to divert suspicion but if they

know

that people are looking for that they'll etc. Ignoring inexperience seemed to be the most prudent course of action, but given the statements above I am questioning this position.

I am suspicious of you pending a reply from our IC regarding my question. I think you have been given too much leeway here, but if this is a typical reaction to a newb then I'm going to consider the atypical reaction of Thian suspicious.

[Vordark]

It's better to start off with a night phase so that you don't have to worry about randomly killing an innocent just to get through the phase quicker.

Also, on replacing me, I will be active and try to help the Village, it is just that it's better than lynching the doc, right? You don't want to end the first day phase to find that you've killed off one of the most important assets to the Village. Also, I signed up so that I can improve my clue-solving skills (there are clues, right?).

There...aren't...clues?

*Insert nooooo! compilation*

These are RG's last two posts. There hasn't been a new one from him since Monday night. All nine of his posts considered he has contributed nothing. He has not backed up his claim of "I will be active and try to help the Village". At minimum he's useless to the town right now. We need active players that are paying attention. Since he's not being replaced...

Unvote: TheWayItEnds
Vote: RaudhrGarm

[Nobody Special]

@Nobody Special:

How much weight is reasonable (or simply typical) to give to experience or inexperience in determining whether or not behavior is suspicious and worthy of scrutiny? Thus far, I have been giving it near zero weight, but I am beginning to think this may be an error.

Normally, I don't factor "newbness" int omy suspicions; at least not

too

much.

I look at mozamis as a cute, adorable puppy so full of energy, bouncing around the room, trying to get

everyone

to pay attention to him (her? I default to male, and haven't checked its gender field yet).

I'm sure (I hope; it's bordering on annoying) that mozamis will expend all that energy at some point, and will grow into being a good and respectable Mafia player.

In other words, to boil it down to a word, at the moment I see mozamis as Neutral.

[Vordark]

@Nobody: Thanks for the imagery.

@everyone:

My thoughts on the game so far...

RaudhrGarm - Scum or useless as I wrote above.

TheWayItEnds - Neutral. His last post brought him above my personal lurker threshold and contributed something to the discussion.

mozamis - Suspicious. I'm continuing to ponder his behavior. I don't like how hard he seems to be trying, but he's not as overly cautious as he was earlier.

Thian - Suspicious. The line about Moz trying to end the day early seemed way too forced for my liking.

bvoigt - Neutral. I was leaning town earlier, but the interchange highlighted in post 95 seems odd. Specifically, his reason for voting TWIE strikes me as really weak.

Trendall - Neutral. Post 102 (which I liked) contained some fairly aggressive language, but he seemed to mellow out after my reply. He also jumped on TWIE right after I voted. This bothers me for some reason, but not enough to give me a read.

Maxous - Neutral. I haven't quite seen enough of him to get any ideas.

Nobody Special - Suspicious. Six posts and the only information from him is that he feels neutral toward Moz (answer in response to my IC question).

Nobody Special has'nt been giving his opinion on players(I know that is hypocritical here but still..). I would like to hear NS' thoughts on players rather than "it is too early to call scumteams" - nobody expects a concrete suspicion at this stage.

I agree.

ps anyone else feel that Nobody special is just blending in a bit?

The pot has a point, kettle.

[mozamis]

@Nobody Special:

How much weight is reasonable (or simply typical) to give to experience or inexperience in determining whether or not behavior is suspicious and worthy of scrutiny? Thus far, I have been giving it near zero weight, but I am beginning to think this may be an error.

Normally, I don't factor "newbness" int omy suspicions; at least not

too

much.

I look at mozamis as a cute, adorable puppy so full of energy, bouncing around the room, trying to get

everyone

to pay attention to him (her? I default to male, and haven't checked its gender field yet).

I'm sure (I hope; it's bordering on annoying) that mozamis will expend all that energy at some point, and will grow into being a good and respectable Mafia player.

In other words, to boil it down to a word, at the moment I see mozamis as Neutral.

lol BIT patronising? I am just trying to be active. "good, respectable mafia player" how pompous of you. Everyone has different styles, nobody special. At the moment your style seems to be to post without much content...

[mozamis]

vordark, why dont you like "how hard i seem to be trying". Talk about "you are damned if you do, damned if you don't". I am posting a lot cos i enjoy it, and i want town to win.
Sorry if thats suspicious.

[mozamis]

ok, I admit this vote is partly cos he's last post irritated me (OMGUS i believe?), but he has been very vague. seems keener to be the IC than to hunt scum. so:

VOTE NOBODY SPECIAL

if he gets a bit more involved in the hunt, i'll reconsider

[Vordark]

vordark, why dont you like "how hard i seem to be trying". Talk about "you are damned if you do, damned if you don't". I am posting a lot cos i enjoy it, and i want town to win.
Sorry if thats suspicious.

To clarify, I believe you are "trying too hard" in the sense that it reminds me of the guy that really wants to hang out with the cool kids and does the things the cool kids do but is so obviously trying to be cool that he's far from it. Everyone is skateboarding, so he buys a board at Walmart for twenty bucks. Everyone is listening to heavy metal, so he buys a Winger album.

You are either trying desperately to fit in because you are new, or because you are trying to divert suspicion. Until I'm sure which, I'm reading very carefully. Regardless, I think RaudhrGarm is more harmful than you at this time and would like to see your thoughts on him.

And in the words of the prophet Leroy Jethro Gibbs, "Don't apologize. It's a sign of weakness."

[mozamis]

vordark, why dont you like "how hard i seem to be trying". Talk about "you are damned if you do, damned if you don't". I am posting a lot cos i enjoy it, and i want town to win.
Sorry if thats suspicious.

You are either trying desperately to fit in because you are new, or because you are trying to divert suspicion. Until I'm sure which, I'm reading very carefully. Regardless, I think RaudhrGarm is more harmful than you at this time and would like to see your thoughts on him.

And in the words of the prophet Leroy Jethro Gibbs, "Don't apologize. It's a sign of weakness."

It was a sarcastic apology. And i don't agree anyway. Its polite to apologise. I could google some old prophet to back up my beliefs, but i really cant be arsed.
You should try thinking for yourself, all the cool kids with skateboards are doing it
And your last paragraph is a false dichotomy. There is another option: I simply post becuase i enjoy it, want to get the game moving and catch scum. Not because i am new or am trying to avert suspicion.
"The truth is stranger than fiction" (Prophet Jethro Patronising Bellend, 1694)

[mozamis]

On RG, if hes mafia i'll eat my left toenail.
Gotta be very clever scum to play the way he's been playing. I know this gets a bit circular, but if i was scum, i'm not sure i'd want to look quite as "can't be bothered to help town" as he has.
Be amazed if he is scum.

[mozamis]

oh, and if i ever buy heavy metal, please lynch me

[Thian]

Trendall:
In response to you assuming that I believe people who vote half hazardly is town, and those who don't are suspicious? Wrong. I believe people who state suspicious behaviour and don't follow it up with a vote, suspicious.
This makes me question why someone would state a suspicion yet, not vote. Especially in RVS. Usually RVS votes do not stick, unless that person continues to look scummy. I am still not comfortable with Mozamis's response.

Also Trendall, I don't want to bring the context of other games into this one. However, Mishka in the game I had replaced stated they were new a couple of times. Trying to hide behind the fact that they were new. Also Eggylvl in another game did the same thing, but was lynched and a few others. These games are all completed and finished. If you want, please look into my wiki and do some digging. I really dispise bringing up other games into current games since they are over and done with.


Mozamis:
I'm male, not female. You have called me he, then she. Also, which is it Mozamis? I think you are scum because I am town? or I'm scum? You're reactions are getting overly defensive. Why is that?
in your latest posts, Why did you feel the need to state "not because I'm new or trying to avert attention" ?

Thewayitends:
Which votes do you like of BV's?
you also stated that maxous hasn't posted at all, and there is good reason to be voting for him. Your vote has fallen on me due to my first post? try harder. Why aren't you on the maxous vote? Are you avoiding someone? Do you not feel mozamis is scummy, or RG?

[Crazy]

Vote Count:

Vordark

(0)

RaudhrGarm

(1) - Vordark

TheWayItEnds

(2) - bvoigt, Trendall

mozamis

(1) - Thian

Thian

(1) - TheWayItEnds

bvoigt

(1) - RaudhrGarm

Trendall

(0)

Maxous

(0)

Nobody Special

(1) - mozamis

Not voting

(2) - Maxous, Nobody Special

With 9 alive, 5 votes will achieve a lynch.

The deadline for Day 1 is

March 12th

.

[mozamis]

Mozamis:
I'm male, not female. You have called me he, then she. Also, which is it Mozamis? I think you are scum because I am town? or I'm scum? You're reactions are getting overly defensive. Why is that?
in your latest posts, Why did you feel the need to state "not because I'm new or trying to avert attention" ?

(THIAN)

sorry for getting your gender wrong. guess i keep thinking of Tania or something.
Anyway. I'm not sure, but i suspect you are town who thinks I'm scum. Naturally,I'm not keen on your attacks, but they don't seem particularly scummy anymore.probably becuase you seem quite determined and consitent. Repeating my earlier point,maybe i'm too defensive cos i dont like being attacked. Bit immature of me i guess, but natural i think.
I think i said that about "being new..avert attention" cos we were still talking about me playing the noob card? I'll check the posts and get back to you.

[mozamis]

You are either trying desperately to fit in because you are new, or because you are trying to divert suspicion

(VORDARK)
Ah, i was replying to vordarks point about me trying to either blend in : cos i am new, or trying to divert suspicion.
I said that was a false set of choices. (i enjoy posting etc-see above)
Thinking about it now, i should have just rejected his assumption: I'm not trying to blend in.

[Thian]

Mozamis:
It is fine, gender confusion happens.

You gave us the reason "why" you stated "Being new....avert attention". However, why do you feel the need state it? Even prior to me questioning you about the subject, you kept stating it, unprovoked, why did you feel it is necessary?

[Trendall]

UNVOTE:

TheWayItEnds looks town to me at the moment.

Haven't had much time to look at either vordark or trendall, who both hopped on my wagon pretty quick, but for a fairly good reason.

I only hopped onto it because I wanted you to talk, not because I want to lynch you just yet.

hmm, second time maxous has been browsing this forum without posting. is that suspicious or laziness?

It's neither. Constructing a post is far more difficult than just reading through the thread. I often check the site on my phone when I've got time to read stuff but not enough time to post replies. I probably post once for about every ten times I look at the thread. I know a lot of other people are the same. So yeah, browsing the forum without posting means nothing.

so, in another game, at the end, one of the scum(who lost) said "yes, i should have mentioned my scum partner at some point. not mentioning him was a mistake. so heres a list of all the players and who they havent mentioned. Not saying this proves ANYTHING, just a reference list at this point.

That was last game with me and Nobody Special, right? It worked in that situation, but won't work all the time. Sometimes mafia totally avoid each other, sometimes they bus the hell out of each other, sometimes they just kinda stay somewhere in between.

ps anyone else feel that Nobody special is just blending in a bit?

The pot has a point, kettle.

Actually, I'd say that Mozamis has done the least 'blending in' out of anyone here. He's posted like a million posts or something and is really putting himself in the foreground right now. Problem is, I think Mozamis is the kind of person who would do that regardless of whether he was town or mafia, so I'm still neutral.

Trendall:
In response to you assuming that I believe people who vote half hazardly is town, and those who don't are suspicious? Wrong. I believe people who state suspicious behaviour and don't follow it up with a vote, suspicious.

Why? Surely that's more down to playstyle than anything else?

------------

I'm agreeing with the suspicions on Nobody Special at the moment. He's offered one read, which is a neutral on Mozamis. I'd like to hear from him regarding why he's not been very active.

[mozamis]

Mozamis:

You gave us the reason "why" you stated "Being new....avert attention". However, why do you feel the need state it? Even prior to me questioning you about the subject, you kept stating it, unprovoked, why did you feel it is necessary?

No, i was provoked by Vordark as i explained in my previous post. I am as keen as everyone else to drop the "noob thing" but you keep bringing it up.