Mini 1126 - Game over - Was Averagely Suspicious saved?

[penpen]

Unvote

[subgenius]

So I was thinking about the game in the shower, and I'm becoming more and more convinced that Rob is scum, aside from everything I listed in 464

-I really, really don't like this role claim. It doesn't make sense that he would threaten to self-hammer without role claiming first, second it seems pretty premature to claim at L-2 when there hasn't been anyone threatening or even hinting that they might switch their vote to him. If he really had a PR, I think he'd want to hold out a bit longer. Being relatively inexperienced, I'm not sure if the right course of action is to directly question the claim or to start meta-gaming to test the claim, but I have to say the whole things stinks to me.

Also:

the people on the list were sheeping so 1 or 2 people on it have a good chance to be scum, so mother fuckers need to explain why they are not sheeping.

I'm not responding to anyone's case on me
lynch me and you will see I'm not lying

The scummy thing here is that he became defensive when nobody was directly accusing him of anything and then refused to respond to actual direct accusations. He seems to think that offering explanations is a townie behavior, but then refuses to do it later.


Note: Dismissing a case as nothing but distortions based on butt-hurtedness is not addressing a case.

go ask any guy falsely accused of rape if he would go have coffee with the chick later

This is pretty offensive. Doesn't make you scum, but this is a horrible choice for an example.

[RobCapone]

Sorry mr. Sensitive

say somebody said you stole his baseball card, would you go hang out at the arcade with him?

I claimed to not waste town's time anymore, you are wasting discussion time

ooh I said I'd self vote, I have done it 3 times as town, probably more

look

Unvote, vote RobCapone

I did it again

unvote

vote scum hiraki

[Ashblade]

There's questions I care to answer from scum?

Ashblade, not saying you haven't found scum, but my god that was such a scumpost. Hey Subsy, if there's so little "town" motivations for my behavior, shouldn't your vote be on me? Or are you just casting suspicion around on people who are pushing your wagon?

I'll take what I can get. My read changed. Seems the wagon died completely on Sub as well. I'm not saying I abide by the fallacy "too scummy to be scum" but there's a point where someone's going to start to want blood. The biggest thing on his case is his shit play, and I at least see the town push in his attacks.

...

The world will rejoice if you add some damn content to this thread.

Your ISO is failure, absurdity and one liners.

Agreed.

Ashblade's was 100% hurp durp

*shrugs* I can agree with that. My explanation was in the pregame, didn't want to wait, thought EA was being cute and scummy, and bandwagoned him although it was pathetic anyway. Heck I wanted to see if we were actually going to get anywhere with it. The fact it went to L-1 and completely deflated though.. but I'll bring that up later in this post.

The sub wagon was joined because he seemed awful, his cases were herp derp, and he felt legitimately flailing. When I got the explanation why
I felt he could possibly be town but wanted to sit on it, and low and behold his responses after it sound more like rookie/newbie townie.

Erratus Apathos (6):

RobCapone

,

Ashblade

,

GreyICE

,

Bill McQuill

,

Barry Allen

, wikkiden
subgenius (L-2):

GreyICE

,

Ashblade

,

RobCapone

,

Barry Allen

,

Bill McQuill

RobCapone, Ashblade, GreyICE, Barry Allen, Bill McQuill

Gawd that's terrible.

...wow. I knew Barry was there but dammmmmmmmmmmmn. However, Zito really is town here, sure he isn't 'explaining' but his results are there.

And... now for this.

btw I am going to bed, if I wake up to being L-1 I will hammer myself as town and not bat an eye lash.

my record already shows I will do it, so remove this wagon on me or be prepared for the most epic fail of all times.

Claim tracker

Your reaction to this doesn't match up to me... or maybe it does in the "epic fail" department. You said yourself though that that wagon was crap and you threatened to hammer yourself and claimed anyway... whatever.

@Zito, I like your Bill wagon, and you can consider me an honorary member, but there's one tiny problem with me going there. Barry. If this wagon goes through, would be on every wagon that hasn't claimed yet. I personally find him more suspicious than Bill right now even though Bill's lurking.

Hayker is probably going to end up getting prodded out, sooooo
UNVOTE:
VOTE: Barry

Case to follow shortly.

[Ashblade]

Let's begin. ISO #5 and #6 from Barry I've already talked about. He's being caution and what I felt he was going to be going all over the place/cautious. Now the rest have further kept that going but some things stick out (at least to me).

Erratus Apathos (6):

RobCapone

,

Ashblade

,

GreyICE

,

Bill McQuill

,

Barry Allen

, wikkiden
subgenius (L-2):

GreyICE

,

Ashblade

,

RobCapone

,

Barry Allen

,

Bill McQuill

RobCapone, Ashblade, GreyICE, Barry Allen, Bill McQuill

Gawd that's terrible.

This wagon chart.

and this post.

A lot has happened since I was last on thread...let me do this first, as I already promised to do some serious thinking about my sub case...

VOTE: UNVOTE

Subs - you didn't convince me with the "No YOU are" posts...but again two things nagged at me. First was knowing you were using that old guide, which really explained your posts and made it plausible that you were playing with less actual playing experience than would seem likely given when you joined the site. The second is now even more apparent to me...the only other vote for you is from Bill, and I've been looking very dimly at Bill for some time (first trying to choose between Bill and wikki, and later Bill and you).

As to where to put my vote...

Bill - for some time I've said that if I didn't have my vote on Subs I would be looking at you...unless the Rob case takes over in my thoughts, I will stay with this...

VOTE: VOTE Bill

Rob - Your explanations regarding lurking and how you separate "active" lurking from "clueless" lurking, and "town" lurking from "scum" lurking just keeps getting more and more convoluted. For someone who is so certain about lurking being a scumtell that it's in your sig, you suddenly seem to be giving a lot of elbow room to some lurkers over others...and it doesn't seem to make sense. For now my vote is on Bill - but I'm also catching up on 3-4 pages of thread and as I re-read it we'll see if it stays there or shifts your way.

He didn't vote Rob, but he kept his options verrrrrrrrry open to switch to him should he look any scummier to him.

Not only that, but his caution of sub's vote after EA left it was shown in ISO #28. What I love thought is his comment of a quickhammer at L-2. AFTER someone unvoted saying there was something better.

Bill's vote isn't enough to take my own vote off you, but it is enough that I want to hear more before we do a quickhammer here.

Note, he felt uneasy at this time as well and his comment about Bill's vote was "if this is negative, sorry, but you seem scummy for it."

So... not trying to step on toes? check
caution? check
keeping his options open? check
sheep? check

Conclusion: I'm very happy with this vote.

[Papa Zito]

ooh I said I'd self vote, I have done it 3 times as town, probably more

You've done it as scum too so from an alignment standpoint it's meaningless.

You're also being 100% reactive but that's also pretty much meaningless.

Which is why I can't really support your wagon. Your actions are anti-town sure but I don't see scum motivation.

Case to follow shortly.

Arrite. I can't complain about a Barry vote so I look forward to seeing what you come up with.

p-edit oh you did ok let's look

[RobCapone]

I read Barry, reading bill now. Ill say that so far ash is spot on about Barry

Reading bill now

[RobCapone]

Sigh.

I'm depressed now

[GreyICE]

ooh I said I'd self vote, I have done it 3 times as town, probably more

You've done it as scum too so from an alignment standpoint it's meaningless.

You're also being 100% reactive but that's also pretty much meaningless.

Which is why I can't really support your wagon. Your actions are anti-town sure but I don't see scum motivation.

HE DOESN'T HAVE ONE.

He doesn't plan as scum. I know this from 1105. He just floats along, adding posts to the thread and vaguely assembly reads. The goal is to survive. They had DAYTALK, and their thread was just random blorts and blips. I had the same problem - I couldn't come up with a scum motivation for his overall post history (I assumed he was the town vig, since I could come up with a vigilante motive to act like he did - provable claim, wanna act scummy and slightly useless, a few emotional posts).

Well screw it. He ain't planning if he's scum. He's just trying to survive.

[GreyICE]

Zito, I'd really like it if ya took a stand on something or other eventually. Not like "No, dun like this" "no dun like that."

NO DUN LIKE YOUR GAMEPLAY SCREW META I WANT MORE CONTENT.

IF YOU HAVE TO PICK:
1) BARRY AND BILL ARE BOTH TOWN
2) BILL IS SCUM, BARRY IS TOWN
3) BILL IS TOWN, BARRY IS SCUM
4) BARRY IS SCUM, BILL IS SCUM

TAKE A STANCE ON SOMETHING YE GODS

[Papa Zito]

He didn't vote Rob, but he kept his options verrrrrrrrry open to switch to him should he look any scummier to him.

I disagree with this point but I'll certainly let him address it.

Zito, I'd really like it if ya took a stand on something or other eventually.

Drugs are bad mmkay?

[RobCapone]

ooh I said I'd self vote, I have done it 3 times as town, probably more

You've done it as scum too so from an alignment standpoint it's meaningless.

You're also being 100% reactive but that's also pretty much meaningless.

Which is why I can't really support your wagon. Your actions are anti-town sure but I don't see scum motivation.

HE DOESN'T HAVE ONE.

He doesn't plan as scum. I know this from 1105. He just floats along, adding posts to the thread and vaguely assembly reads. The goal is to survive. They had DAYTALK, and their thread was just random blorts and blips. I had the same problem - I couldn't come up with a scum motivation for his overall post history (I assumed he was the town vig, since I could come up with a vigilante motive to act like he did - provable claim, wanna act scummy and slightly useless, a few emotional posts).

Well screw it. He ain't planning if he's scum. He's just trying to survive.

I call BS

my plan was to lurk, I got caught and was on the defensive ever since and I eventually just gave up

my best performance as scum is Cookie Thieves

I'm not explaining it but my meta is very easy to figure out and I usually don't vary

go read fringe mafia and 90s band Mafia and see how I am as town

[Erratus Apathos]

Or, I have a policy where we shouldn't lynch claimed PRs until they can be proven to be scum.

That's a terrible policy. Explain why you are unwilling to lynch Rob.

Unvote

You too.

[RobCapone]

Or, I have a policy where we shouldn't lynch claimed PRs until they can be proven to be scum.

That's a terrible policy. Explain why you are unwilling to lynch Rob.

Unvote

You too.

You advocate always lynching a claimed power role day 1?

Learn better theory

[subgenius]

I'll post between 12am-2am pst tonight a bit.

C'mon, man.

[RobCapone]

I'll post between 12am-2am pst tonight a bit.

C'mon, man.

+1

[Erratus Apathos]

Or, I have a policy where we shouldn't lynch claimed PRs until they can be proven to be scum.

That's a terrible policy. Explain why you are unwilling to lynch Rob.

Unvote

You too.

You advocate always lynching a claimed power role day 1?

Learn better theory

Yeah, that's why I'm voting you right now.

My whole point is that having a "claim policy" at all is dumb, and that if you unvote someone for a roleclaim you should be able to explain why without just saying "nope, can't lynch a PR claim!"

[Snake Eyes]

UNVOTE:

I do have my doubts about Rob, but a tracker claim is both potentially useful and verifiable. I'm willing to let him live another day and re-evaluate on day 2.

Back to Bill, who's still probably scum and has yet again fallen to the background.

VOTE: Bill McQuill

More tomorrow. This game is moving a bit faster than I'm used to.

[penpen]

Vote:Barry Allen

[RobCapone]

Sigh.

I'm depressed now

now I am on a PC I can explain this comment, at work I read over both Barry and Bill and sadly out of the 2 I have to feel that Barry is the scum of the 2.

why does this depress me? this means that my theory of Bill being bussed by Hiraki is potentially thrown out the window (unless we have 2 scum groups, I am not speculating that we do but I have been part of at least 2 possible 3 games on site with 2 mafia groups so I am not going to assume it isn't possible)

now for the things about Barry that bother me excluding the EA vote, basically in a nutshell he seemed to be very cautious and assumed EA was at L-1 so he made this comment

Errant - if you weren't at L-1 already I'd vote for you myself. You posted a rather unfortunate message about wanting to delay the game, then post an OMGUS vote and THEN say you had a case? Wow........

than Bill votes and than Barry putting EA at L-2, the reason why I feel Barry's vote is more scummy is because of Bill's comment

Um... what? You think Errant is at L-1? How is that possible?

I assure you he is not. See, look:

Vote: Errant Apathos.

I really don't feel mafia would be THAT brazen, of course I am known to be wrong, but I just don't feel like I am.

than Barry with this

...and since we do have room...I'll do what I would have done if I had counted properly in the first place (as noted in my earlier post)

VOTE: Errant Apathos

again seems very cautious


than later Barry's 2nd vote which can be found http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 1#p2804041

To me the top two candidates are now Bill and Sub...and my vote is:

VOTE: subgenius

which should place him at L-2. We still have room for debate, and I do look forward to reading more. Before I stop, though, I do want to call out our lurkers...where are you, Hayker and Mockingjaye? Lurking is not cool...

now look at the post right above it and notice who are the 2 biggest wagons are....
also he is again seeming cautious making sure to point out that we have room for debate

and than his vote on Bill, note the bolded

A lot has happened since I was last on thread...let me do this first, as I already promised to do some serious thinking about my sub case...

VOTE: UNVOTE

Subs - you didn't convince me with the "No YOU are" posts...but again two things nagged at me. First was knowing you were using that old guide, which really explained your posts and made it plausible that you were playing with less actual playing experience than would seem likely given when you joined the site. The second is now even more apparent to me...

the only other vote for you is from Bill

, and I've been looking very dimly at Bill for some time (first trying to choose between Bill and wikki, and later Bill and you).

As to where to put my vote...

Bill - for some time I've said that if I didn't have my vote on Subs I would be looking at you...unless the Rob case takes over in my thoughts, I will stay with this...

VOTE: VOTE Bill

Rob - Your explanations regarding lurking and how you separate "active" lurking from "clueless" lurking, and "town" lurking from "scum" lurking just keeps getting more and more convoluted. For someone who is so certain about lurking being a scumtell that it's in your sig, you suddenly seem to be giving a lot of elbow room to some lurkers over others...and it doesn't seem to make sense. For now my vote is on Bill - but I'm also catching up on 3-4 pages of thread and as I re-read it we'll see if it stays there or shifts your way.

I bolded that part because the subs wagon has dwindled to just him and bill, so he needs to get off. yes he has been FOS'ing Bill all along but what seemed funny is right before his vote, Zito voted bill, i didn't think of it much at first but it could be that Zito has earned a town rep and now he felt it was a good enough time to switch his vote (assumption by me of course)

he also leaves it open that he could vote me just as my wagon is getting bigger.


Well got to go pick up the kids, just some food for thought

p.edit

Pen, you were asked why you unvoted me also why are you voting barry without a reason?

[penpen]

I see rob now as being as PRO Town as Papa Zito and everyone knows papa zito is pro town.

[bvoigt]

...

The world will rejoice if you add some damn content to this thread.

Your ISO is failure, absurdity and one liners.

Agreed.

Thanks.

[Hiraki]

That's a terrible policy. Explain why you are unwilling to lynch Rob.

Let me rephrase my last statement. I'm not going to lynch a PR on D1 without poof that he must be scum. Even though I think that Rob is extremely scummy, I'm willing to allow him to stay alive.

To go on, let's talk about Rob.

Hey Rob. If you really want me dead, you should try making a convincing case. The statements that I've been lurking, and that I have no "real"case on Billy being scum aren't working well. Mostly to the point that you're the only one who believes I'm lurking, and that I do have a case on Billy's first post, you just don't agree with it. I could add onto it, but I'm not focused on him, at least not anymore.

[RobCapone]

I see rob now as being as PRO Town as Papa Zito and everyone knows papa zito is pro town.

way to ignore the questions I just asked you.

how did I go from scummy bad scum hunter to ProTown other than Zito said he doesn't see scum motivation for my acrtions

why are you voting Barry?

[RobCapone]

That's a terrible policy. Explain why you are unwilling to lynch Rob.

Let me rephrase my last statement. I'm not going to lynch a PR on D1 without poof that he must be scum. Even though I think that Rob is extremely scummy, I'm willing to allow him to stay alive.

To go on, let's talk about Rob.

Hey Rob. If you really want me dead, you should try making a convincing case. The statements that I've been lurking, and that I have no "real"case on Billy being scum aren't working well. Mostly to the point that you're the only one who believes I'm lurking, and that I do have a case on Billy's first post, you just don't agree with it. I could add onto it, but I'm not focused on him, at least not anymore.

I will quote you

I don't need to make a case for anyone really.