Mini 1126 - Game over - Was Averagely Suspicious saved?

[Bill McQuill]

Man, every time 24 hours pass... threadsplosion.

Reading now. Also making dinner. I'll be back.

[Erratus Apathos]

Hiraki vs Rob = town vs town.

And I'm not even waiting for Hayker to post again, because at this point GreyICE is just blatantly scum. First of all, his reaction to my case is terrible:

*snort*

If I'm scum I make a lot more sense and read a lot more town. It's really easy when I KNOW all the alignments, I don't have to change my reads or move my vote much because who cares? I'm getting a townie lynched.

If I'm town I actually have to make the best lynch possible, the one I think most likely to hit scum.

I called his jump off sub and his waffle of Ashblade suspicious, so how does he react? He evades explaining the pro-town motives behind those things, and instead throws out some REEEEEALLY terrible WIFOM. Like holy shit, I didn't even know they made WIFOM this terrible. Let me break this down: "If I'm scum I [...] read a lot more town." His argument here is effectively that yes, he did something scummy, but him being scummy is actually a towntell! And keep in mind he argues this

instead

of actually explaining the scummy actions. Completely not-town thought process here.

Oh and here are some more things from ICE that suck:

I'm not happy with Rob's recent posts, and I don't know how I feel about lynching claimed power on day 1. I've done it and had them flip power, I've done it and had them flip scum, I've backed up and had them flip scum anyway later. I've backed off, watched em provide jack, and get lynched two days later because "they weren't NKed" and had them flip their PR.

Invoking unrelated bullshit from other games to justify fence-sitting on Rob.

But if someone starts a different wagon, I fucking want SOMEONE ELSE TO START THE WAGON. If we count the EA wagon from my offer of prizes pre-game, I started ALL THREE wagons this game. PEOPLE ARE BEING LAZY. THIS FUCKING SUCKS YOU LAZY TOWNIES.

"Gosh, I'm just so pissed off that people have been agreeing with me all game" ranks pretty low on the list of town thought processes.

Oh and there's that PBPA of penpen which I'm not quoting since it's a giant wall of penpen quotes, but it sucks too. It doesn't even say anything meaningful. It's just a wall of "HURRRRR PENPEN IS STUPID" one-liner bullshit poorly disguised as analysis.

GreyICE is scum this game.

UNVOTE: Hayker
VOTE: GreyICE

[subgenius]

This and Rob’s later post are awfully convenient. If we are looking for a counterwagon, I believe we’ve found it. If you wish to follow it, remember who took you there.

I still don't get it. You go out of your way to call the votes against you a counter wagon and seem to feel like you're scum hunting by doing so.

As for not voting Ashblade or PenPen - I also do not believe in OMGUS votes. If you will note my original vote on EA was based in part on the OMGUS, and in part on claiming there was a case posted when in fact that wasn't a real case (at least not from my read). So to summarize: Yes I think this looks like a counterwagon, and no I'm not OMGUS'ing or voting a role claim even though that would be easy to do. I'm leaving my vote on someone I've suspected of being scum for quite some time, and I am comfortable with leaving my vote there.

But you seem to be going out of your way not to call anybody scum. This doesn't make sense. If you think this is a counter wagon, you must think rob, ashblade, and penpen are scum. Whether you vote them or not, you're already OMGUS'ing by calling it a counter-wagon, so you might as well go all the way and tell us who on your wagon is scum.

[penpen]

I'd be proud of it. You're just a whimp ICE!

Penpen: Do you have any reasoning why? Or was it just a vibe?

Just a vibe

[Bill McQuill]

Reading now. Also making dinner. I'll be back.

Tomorrow, it turns out. Grading papers intervened. Apologies.

[RobCapone]

As for not voting Ashblade or PenPen - I also do not believe in OMGUS votes. If you will note my original vote on EA was based in part on the OMGUS, and in part on claiming there was a case posted when in fact that wasn't a real case (at least not from my read). So to summarize: Yes I think this looks like a counterwagon, and no I'm not OMGUS'ing or voting a role claim even though that would be easy to do. I'm leaving my vote on someone I've suspected of being scum for quite some time, and I am comfortable with leaving my vote there.

[Barry Allen]

Glad I checked in before hitting the road for the day. Just some observations here...

Anyone notice how Bill has gone back into lurker mode - promising posts but backing away? He has already done this once when the heat was on Subs. He has a much better case against him from more people than me, but he is relying on hiding to allow the heat to go on others as it has already seemed to work once.

Man, every time 24 hours pass... threadsplosion.

Reading now. Also making dinner. I'll be back.

...and his big post was?????

Reading now. Also making dinner. I'll be back.

Tomorrow, it turns out. Grading papers intervened. Apologies.

Once again....
1. My vote is on Bill - I've suspected him for a long time and believe that is the right place for today's vote. While I do not like the mini-BW here, I'm not OMGUSing with my vote. I want to lynch Bill, who is now hiding from us, then we can sort out the little bandwagoners here.

2. I am not OMGUS voting - I made part of my case on EA due to OMGUS voting - WHY would I turn around and OMGUS vote here? If I believe I am voting for scum (and I do) then my vote should be based on the case rather than my being annoyed by someone else.


Let's hit this case again against me...
1. I'm "cautious"
2. I've voted either as a BW or sheeping.
3. I've left room to suspect others and switch my vote if I want to...If I think they have a better case against them.

Once again - stubbornly refusing to listen to any other argument is not pro-town. In fact I would wonder about such a person's affiliation, as the only people who can be absolutely positive about who is maf and who is town would be the mafia itself. Secondly, I have never sheeped - I have always made my own case and posted said case. If you don't like my votes, fair enough - but if you have read my posts you know I haven't simply BW'd or sheeped, I've been willing to state the reasons and the case behind my votes. I do not think choosing against a simple OMGUS vote is anti-town - I have actively scumhunted here and now face a BW started by Ashblade, who disappears from the thread for long stretches at a time, by Rob, who simply wants to keep the heat off himself so he doesn't have to threaten leaving the site again, and by PenPen, whose posts make absolutely no sense.

[Papa Zito]

Real quick before I run to work:

I have an opinion on this particular one, but I so need something answered first:

MULTIPLE CHOICE QUIZ

ZITO:

1) BARRY AND BILL ARE BOTH TOWN
2) BILL IS SCUM, BARRY IS TOWN
3) BILL IS TOWN, BARRY IS SCUM
4) BARRY IS SCUM, BILL IS SCUM

1-4, acceptable answers.

I'm not planning on lynching you if your reads are not 100%, I JUST WANT TO KNOW WHAT YOU ARE THINKING MAN.

Well I'm voting Bill so how are two of those even valid?

Barry I'm ok with at the moment. There are others I want dead more. So I guess 2 although I'd rather have 5) Bill is scum, Barry is neutral-townish.

(I think someone said I'd pick 5 lulz)

Tomorrow, it turns out. Grading papers intervened. Apologies.

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand scene.

[RobCapone]

Barry

1. I'm not bandwagoning you cause I'm not voting you
2. As I pointed out in my post earlier after the EA wagon you FOS the 2 people who happen to be the largest wagons
3. You are doing exactly what you just accused me of doing, trying to deflect from you now you are getting heat

I welcome any and all heat on me, I've laid out what I am and my days are numbered

It's naive to ignore the 300lb gorillas of you and Bill, both are being accused of being scum and reading both you look more suspicious.

It's my opinion, it's not bandwagoning and not trying to get pressure off me.

[subgenius]

Once again....
1. My vote is on Bill - I've suspected him for a long time and believe that is the right place for today's vote. While I do not like the mini-BW here, I'm not OMGUSing with my vote. I want to lynch Bill, who is now hiding from us, then we can sort out the little bandwagoners here.
2. I am not OMGUS voting - I made part of my case on EA due to OMGUS voting - WHY would I turn around and OMGUS vote here? If I believe I am voting for scum (and I do) then my vote should be based on the case rather than my being annoyed by someone else.

What's your fixation with avoiding an OMGUS vote? I repeat: You are already labeling rob, penpen, and ashblade as scum by calling your wagon a counter-wagon, whether you vote for them or not, so I think you should be willing to come out and say that and give some reasons.

You're looking more suspicious to me based on your extreme self-consciousness about OMGUS'ing than you would if you'd come up with some evidence to backup your counter-wagon theory.

[RobCapone]

@zito - can you explain your case on bill

also did you read my post about Barry I made yesterday? If so comments?

[penpen]

I just confirmed in on my first official Newbie game yay!

[RobCapone]

Head asplodes

zito, I'm typing with no head now too

[subgenius]

I just confirmed in on my first official Newbie game yay!

Penpen, I have no doubt that you're a newbie, and I don't know if you're town or scum, but I'm quite sure that you're not being especially helpful to the town right now. I'm hardly qualified to give tips, but I know that I and probably everyone else would like to see more evidence that you're reading the thread closely, logically forming opinions about it, and trying to find some scum. The only way we can form an opinion about you is by reading what you write in this thread, and if you don't write something at least somewhat rational, you aren't helping us catch scum, and therefor, you're not giving us any reason to think that you're not scum.

[GreyICE]

Real quick before I run to work:

Well I'm voting Bill so how are two of those even valid?

Barry I'm ok with at the moment. There are others I want dead more. So I guess 2 although I'd rather have 5) Bill is scum, Barry is neutral-townish.

(I think someone said I'd pick 5 lulz)

Tomorrow, it turns out. Grading papers intervened. Apologies.

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand scene.

The two were valid because it wouldn't be the first time I've caught someone with no idea who their vote was on. Sure, like 1% chance, but miracles happen.

I'm not sure I agree with you, but I think my vote is on scum at the moment (Rob changed his behavior in response to criticism. Eventually he'll get a scumgame out of all the ways people catch him) but people aren't down with lynching the claimed PR this time around, so w/e. Will wait for Bill's post because town can be plenty busy too.

[RobCapone]

Eventually he'll get a scumgame out of all the ways people catch him)

what does that mean?

[penpen]

Unvote

At this point I'm not really sure who to vote for right now. There seems to be a good case on bill I think.

That case pretty much being because he defended EA and then voted EA.
And then at the end of Bill's post #146 it sounds like to me he really wanted EA
lynched quickly.

Hiraki, please explain why GREYIce is your archenemy?

[Hiraki]

Hiraki, please explain why GREYIce is your archenemy?

You do realize how pointless this is? Do you think I'm scum, yes or no?

If so, make a good case, and let me defend against it.

[Dekes]

Vote count 1.6

Bill McQuill (L-3): Papa Zito, Barry Allen, Snake Eyes, Hiraki
RobCapone (L-4): GreyICE, subgenius
GreyICE (L-6): Erratus Apathos
Papa Zito (L-6): Hayker
penpen (L-6): bvoigt
Hiraki (L-6): RobCapone
subgenius (L-6): Bill McQuill
Barry Allen (L-6): Ashblade

Not voting: penpen

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch and 7 to no lynch.

Deadline is

March, the 3rd, at 06:00 p.m. EST

V/LAs: Hiraki 2/23 - 2/25

[Hiraki]

Yeah, actually the only time that I'll really have Limited Access would be tomorrow. I put the V/LA up just in case I wouldn't have any access from my hotel. However, I definitely won't be around for a good part of tomorrow.

[bvoigt]

btw I am going to bed, if I wake up to being L-1 I will hammer myself as town and not bat an eye lash.

my record already shows I will do it, so remove this wagon on me or be prepared for the most epic fail of all times.

I thought you said you weren't giving up?

GreyICE is probably scum. Not long after the substrike wagon starts losing steam, he just silently slips off for a Rob vote. After all the heavy rhetoric Grey used on substrike, if he changed his read I would expect him to say something about it, and if he didn't change his read, I wouldn't expect him to jump off it for a weak-ass case on Rob. On top of that, there is his ridiculously ridiculous waffle on Ashblade:

Ashblade, not saying you haven't found scum, but my god that was such a scumpost.

(sorry, Ashblade is just too town. It might be one of his scum talents, but if it is, he's got me fooled).

*snort*

If I'm scum I make a lot more sense and read a lot more town. It's really easy when I KNOW all the alignments, I don't have to change my reads or move my vote much because who cares? I'm getting a townie lynched.

If I'm town I actually have to make the best lynch possible, the one I think most likely to hit scum.

Now Rob's claim... huh. I'm so not sure what to say. Did you breadcrumb it anywhere?

EA mentioned this already, but I do not like this post at all. You totally ignored his actual case, and basically used self-meta to clear yourself. What's your response to his point about Ashblade? Why did you call him scum in one post and obvtown in another?

I'm sticking with my wiki/penpen vote for now, although Barry would also be a good vote after looking at Papa Zito's ISO #19.

Why Barry out of the five other people on that list?
It seems like penpen is as good as a no-vote if you're not going to put his feet to the fire a little bit.

Barry and Bill were the two most blatant wagoners. By that, I mean that they joined both of the wagons fairly late. And so far, I haven't really noticed anything scummy about Bill, whereas Barry has looked slightly scummy. I'll address penpen in my next post.

[bvoigt]

OK...penpen is looking like one of those players who always survives to endgame because the town won't lynch him, and scum won't NK him. I don't know about anyone else, but I'm going to tell you right now that if we were both in 3-person LyLo, I would vote for him (assuming nothing drastic happens, but you know what I mean). We're going to have to lynch him eventually, so why not today?

I've decided to put my vote back on Rob. I don't think he is doing a very good job scum hunting even though he is posting a lot.

Vote:RobCapone

This post is ironic and ridiculous. No offense, but your scumhunting has been extremely poor. If you're town, and not scumhunting very well, how is poor scumhunting a scumtell?

I see rob now as being as PRO Town as Papa Zito and everyone knows papa zito is pro town.

What caused your change of opinion on Rob?

Pie is OK - but not cake.....the cake is a lie...

I think the Pie is a lie also. Which means he is misrepresenting the pie.
And I think that is scummy.

What does this even mean?

[subgenius]

We're going to have to lynch him eventually, so why not today?

I'd say the obvious answer is that penpen's flip would give us literally no new information if it turns out he's town. I think this is the lazy way to go, and we'd be far better off lynching someone who people have built cases against and actually looks scummy.

[Ashblade]

Hi guys, I'm around but I'm actually waiting for another day before I respond to Barry. Mostly because I'm waiting to see Bill's response that's suppose to be happening today. Spoilers though on Barry, I still think he's scum. Unfortunately Bill's more scum if he doesn't start talking soon.

I just confirmed in on my first official Newbie game yay!

Good for you. Maybe you'll learn how to play for here (which is back asswards but etc)

OK...penpen is looking like one of those players who always survives to endgame because the town won't lynch him, and scum won't NK him. I don't know about anyone else, but I'm going to tell you right now that if we were both in 3-person LyLo, I would vote for him (assuming nothing drastic happens, but you know what I mean). We're going to have to lynch him eventually, so why not today?

Ah the price to play with a newbie VI.

BTW Hayker's probably getting replaced. I'm really hoping we get a better person for that slot.

[Ashblade]

We're going to have to lynch him eventually, so why not today?

I'd say the obvious answer is that penpen's flip would give us literally no new information if it turns out he's town. I think this is the lazy way to go, and we'd be far better off lynching someone who people have built cases against and actually looks scummy.

By the way, good answer. I agree.