Newbie Game 1058: Murder in Bitville! (OVER!)

[mothrax]

/confirm

Welcome all, I am your friendly neighborhood IC! Note that this doesn't give me superpowers or anything (yes I was dissapointed, I wanted a cape))
Basically, I am here to answer questions, teach a bit, etc. I am also here to play to my wincon (win condition)... I will have a small "how to/key terms" post up in the morning, but for now lets just do this:

This is what is known on this site as Random Voting Stage (RVS for short). It can yield a lot of information later in the game with voting analysis, connections between players etc. Lots of different methods can be used to vote randomly, including random.org, dice, or the first name that pops into your head.

this is my method:

Vote barefoot-fighter

for being the first player alphabetically not to have posted

Also, a few questions:
1: Have you ever played mafia before (either on this site or others or in real life)?
2: What is your timezone?
3: What is the sum of all the prime numbers from 1-100

My answers:
1: Yup, see my wiki page for more info.
2: Eastern Standard Time
3: no frakking clue, and it really doesn't matter, 3 is just prettier than 2

[mothrax]

also @kcd: we may but heads later... I love walls.

[mothrax]

so what happens when both players X and Y are both at L-1 when deadline occurs? no lynch?

My deadline rules involve how many players are actually voting - I'll explain more if we get there. But ties are always broken by who got to X votes first.

Alpha rules?

[mothrax]

Alpha Rules are "if no majority is reached at deadline and there is a tie, the person with the first vote on them is lynched" KittyMo generally uses it.

[mothrax]

I got the joke, over 9000 blahblahblah

Forgive me, I must have missed the "no random.org" memo, as it's not really been brought up in any of my games. I personally think it is telling in and of itself that someone would chose to use it, but hey.

Cirno: point me to a newbie game where a quicklynch on d1 was good for the town.
Also, 3/9 of players have posted. Overaggresion is noted.

[mothrax]

Going to be ignoring cirno for now... As one of the greats once said to me "case or gtfo"

So, the moment you have all been waiting for! Mothrax's Do's and Don'ts of Mafia**:

Do:
1) Be Active
-This is probably the most important point. A slow game is an unfun game, an unfun game is generally an auto-scumwin.
2) Make Cases
-A large part of mafia is finding the scum (even as scum, you are "finding" the "scum") but the other part of that is convincing the rest of the town that you are right. Unfortunately saying "A is scum, lets lynch him/her/it" doesn't cut it. "A is scum because of This this this this and this is much more powerful.
3) Be Confident
-This plays into the last point. If you are wishy washy people won't believe you. Even if you think you might be wrong, own your case. If you end up being wrong, re-read and go on about yourself.
4) Read
-Not just read, but read well.
5) Ask questions
- If you don't understand something, just ask, a lot of people will be happy to answer.

Don'ts:
1) Break the rules.
-Obvious, but if you think it is against the rules don't do it. If you have a question about the rules, ask the mod.
2) Lurk
-Lurking is bad. Bad bad bad bad bad
3) Claim for no apparant reason.
- Remember, you are the only one who knows your role. Unless you are at L-1 (lynch minus one) with an intent to hammer, there is no reason to reveal your role.
4) Hammer without a claim
-self explanitory

Most of these are key to good town play, and by association key to good scum play as well.
If you have any questions at any time, feel free to ask me. Your SE players will be here as well to answer questions should I not be around, but the SE is the primary teaching role in this game.

Also, if you haven't already, feel free to take some time to familiarize yourself with some of the more site based lingo, found here at Commonly Used Abbreviations and here at the Glossary. I also strongly encourage you to take a look at the Theory section of the WiKi.

Mothrax, signing out.

[mothrax]

@hoopster I didn't mean self hammer. To clarify: unless there is someone who is not already voting you who is ready to vote, and that person will be the last vote needed for a lynch, don't claim.

Also, the cstalliancewagon on me is just any other early game wagon with no founding that will not go to lynch.

[mothrax]

Cirno et all, I fully support early game bandwagons. Even when they are on me. It gives me good information to pull from. However, shoving them to lynch I do not support. Especially not on page three.

I would also like to note that my do's and don'ts are all conditional. In newbie games and most of the time in any normal game, they all apply, but there are times when the best strategic move is to get yourself lynched (see my role in Reckamonic's OOT) or break some other variation of the do's.

[mothrax]

Some questions:

@Cirno: Explain the shift from the "this vote is semi-serious" feel to your first post in which you voted me to "this is just a wagon, whatevs" attitude you have now.

@Kcdspot: What exactly was the turning point for you that prompted post #50

I think my vote is doing no good on an unconfirmed player so lets do this.

Unvote, Vote Mist

[mothrax]

Also, judging by my avatar, I am a giant moth destroying Tokyo... oh wait, I am.

[mothrax]

/confirm

>Vegeta
>Prime Numbers
>IC telling people to use random.org

Jesus Christ, what is going on in this thread?

VOTE: Mothrax
Lynch him right now. Forget RVS, hop on the moth wagon.

This does not read as just a joke.

[mothrax]

A1) I was not concerned with the "wagon" on me for two main reasons. One being that it was an early game wagon which is good for town, as long as it doesn't get to big too quickly. Two is that never made it past two votes... cirno and mist, and the latter has moved her vote all over the place.

B2) I don't know whether or not I am an "orthodox" IC, as this is my first IC game.

C3) @Cirno Post 103: At that time, the person I was voting for was not even confirmed, why would I keep a vote on an unconfirmed player?
Mist has hopped back and forth between you and I multiple times now (from me to you to me). Which makes me wary of mist in general. Going between the two largest talking points which happen to be in opposition to each other reads opportunistic. Mist deserves more attention.

@Kcdaspot: Please answer the question in this post

@shotty: once you read up please comment on the cirno's push on me, particularly the point brought up here and here

@cirno: patience, I am typing up a post as you post that.

[mothrax]

@Kcdaspot: even though she obviously had no support for the lnch and kept pushing it? (annoyingtell yes, scumtell, no imo)

pedit: @cirno it was a pressure vote, because I want to get a read on mist, which is easier with a vote.

@mist: what is it that compelled you to switch to cirno and then back to me?

[mothrax]

What is it thus far that makes me scum? Dmsis I atpeast expect a case from you. You want me to believe your play has improved, show me.

I am interested in mists response to my question. In the mean time, shotty, if you think imam a terrible IC tell menwhat I can do to improve.

[mothrax]

Mist, since you are online please answer my question.

[mothrax]

Will everyone please list there top two suspects with reasoning? I will even start.

1)Mist: Vote hopping, trying to blatantly buddy.

2)DMSIS: discrediting the IC, pushing a suspect with no vote or reasoning.

[mothrax]

What is it thus far that makes me scum? Dmsis I atpeast expect a case from you. You want me to believe your play has improved, show me.

I am interested in mists response to my question. In the mean time, shotty, if you think imam a terrible IC tell menwhat I can do to improve.

Moth I never called you scum did I? And if I did I'm sorry I didn't mean it. I simply mean as an IC you make it seem like you are trying to play only IC and not your role. Whether you are town hiding behind IC or scum it doesn't matter. Just remember you are a player in this game as much as you are an IC. Is this your first time IC'ing?

Yes, it is. I am still trying to find the right balance atm. It doesn't help that I didn't have a lot of time to post this weekend. I concentrated heavily on the IC aspect early to make sure I could get something in, and knew I could catch up play wise later.

[mothrax]

I have said (twice now?) that yes, this is my first IC game.

[mothrax]

Cool, thanks.

Doesn't change the fact scummy actions are scummy.

[mothrax]

The self contradiction between your posts. (yes I know you explained it, doesn't mean it is the truth)

Don't worry though. You aren't my #1 or I would be voting for you.

[mothrax]

Yes yes he is. You gonna answer the question I asked you a page ago?

[mothrax]

Also, shotty, spot greeted you and all other replacements thus far in roughly the same manner.

[mothrax]

Sure, KCD, though there is a link in my first post to the wiki page...

L-[number] is the lynch threshold... (I.E. l-1 is one vote needed to lynch some one)
IioA-Information over Analysis
OMGUS-Oh my god you suck- typically referring to a player voting someone because that someone is voting for them.
those are a few of the important/frequently used ones....
oh, fos=finger of suspicion. a weak vote placeholder imo. "I am suspicous of you, but not enough to vote you.

[mothrax]

Actually, I agree wiith cirno. While her reasoning is kind of flawed, it is believable, and it has been stated in the thread already. She may have gone about saying it the wrong way, but she is right.

And at this point I am going to have to do a double take because I agree with shotty when it comes to Kcdaspot. There is little but fluff in his ISO, I am not really liking what I read.

Unvote: Mist; Vote: Kcdaspot

If you haven't already please answer my question from earlier everyone.

[mothrax]

I'm slightly confused by the large number of scum pairings thrown around with certainty by people, usually with little to back them up. So far we've had:

mothrax & Mist
mothrax & Cirno
Hoppster & shotty
Cirno & shotty


It confuses me immensely how people can think that they have a scum pairing so early on, paticularly when other people seem to be just as sure about different pairings. Or is it just a thing that people do that's considered normal around here?

But for what it's worth, mothrax & KC are scum.

Generally when I say "this person is scum, and this person is scum" it doesn't mean they are scum together. They just happen to be the two scummiest of my reads.

[mothrax]

*puts player hat on*

Mist reads less to me like flip-flopping scum and more like a newbie who just wants to make friends... MafiaScum is srsbzns.

Shotty, between 119 and 121, you think I am scum hiding as town, after that you go "oh no, I never called you scum"
self contradiction is scummy.

FOS Shotty

[mothrax]

Sorry for lack of activity, real life just kicked me in the sac for a couple days. Will have something of content up this evening if I don't get called into work.

Also, whassup nopoint!

[mothrax]

I wanna appologize for not being around the past week. Had a lot come up with school/work combined... anyways, I am glad to see that some real discussion has happened in my absense. I will be rereading from my last content post on. here is a spamming the page heads up.

[mothrax]

@

Moth

I wasn't calling you scum, I was saying if you were an experienced IC then your actions would be very scummy.

You did call me scum. Whether you like it or not your post flat out called me scum. I do think you are putting a lot of effort into this game though, which I haven't seen you do as scum.

[mothrax]

well Mothrax its already page 10 so you don't need to be having everyone anwer the questions anymore. That is more of a confirming stage kind of thing.

Most of my questions up to that point (aside from the orriginal 3) had purposes. It was to get answers. When I ask a question I am either looking for an elaboration or to discover the intent of an action. Both can lead to catching scum. Would you like me to quit hunting scum?

As to the current situation I think Cirno and Mothrax are scum
MY REASONING!!:
1)Cirno tried to push a lynch on Mothrax
What could that mean? Maybe she was trying to get herself killed and make it look like Mothrax is clear. Being pushed to lynch by scum. Also it could make everyone NOT want to lynch Mothrax because of her annoyingness and pushness and just lynch someone else and save them both for a day.

At the time I was one of two peole who had posted. It isn't uncommon for people to push a random bandwagon. Do I think the action itself was flawed? Yes, do I think the intent behind it came from a townie? Yes.

2) she was all over lynching Mothrax in the beggining than stopped.
What could that mean? She could have just say that no one is jumping on it than stopped trying. Or she never really wanted him lynched. Notice how in the beggining she was only posting to push the lynch on Moth. What happened now??

Thats been explained already

3) At the beggining she tried to buddy with as many people starting that Central Time Buddies.
What could that mean? Maybe she was trying to risk getting lynched or make her lynches stronger with her backup.

It was obvious from the start that the CTB was just something silly. It happens a lot. (i.e. capslawk alliance in anygame with fate, reck, andrius et. all)

4) she doesn't provide good reasons when trying to push a lynch on someone.
What could that mean? She doesn't have any reasons she just wants someone to die besides her. When she pushed on Mothrax she posted Tarot Cards. When she wanted me dead all she said in 1 post was "Mist is Mafia"
If you haven't voted Cirno yet I advise that you should soon. She has many scumtells and isn't a very good SE.

SE is just a fancy name for someone who has played more than two games here. There is no responsability tied to the position.

The bolded are my responses.

Mist: You have done the following and nothing more so far:
1. Vote hopped and buddied ("im with you! (changes votes to whatever someone else is doing)")
2. attempted to discredit another player to make them look scummy. (seen in the end of the quoted post)

[mothrax]

@ Hoppster:
A1) Townlists are bad. Bad bad bad. The only time I have ever posted a town list I was scum. They give scum more info than they should have.
B2) What?
C3) I have more posts than any other nuetral reads, so I must be scum? Srsly?

Answer this:
Why does posting more make people look scummy?

[mothrax]

and to answer the question: I fos'd because, while it is weak and mostly useless it is a good way to make sure your suspicions are known. If I were to be NK'd, there would be more merit in my words since they come from confirmed town. Which is why I like to make sure my suspicions are known.

[mothrax]

Ok, I have read enough. KC is scum and here is why:

The interaction between him and shotty gives me a head ache. Shotty brought up valid points. KC's response was "No You!" and ignoring/raging about a large part of his case. KC, if you want me to believe you are town, respond to shotty's case on you with actuall content. proof, examples of why he is wrong.

It is also worth noting that he concludes his rebuttle with "shotty is scum" No, what you have/could have shown with those posts was that shotty is wrong (I doubt he is) not that he is scum. There is a huge difference.

[mothrax]

@Flaymod: VC plox

@ all: If KC flips scum (highly likely) his buddy is probably HwaG. He is over defensive of KC and attempts to push after KC

@cirno: people have been complaining about my inactivity since sunday. I hardly call two days later jumping in as soon as people start to complain.

[mothrax]

I think Kc is flailing. Hardcore.

this. so hard.

[mothrax]

Sure.
Shotty is prob town. I have already said why.

I am confused by mist. She is either really really really scummy, or she is overzealous town.

I haven't seen enough from you/crackhead/HwaG to get a great read on but gut tells me that HwaG is likely Spot's buddy.

Cirno is also prob town. Scum wouldn't be dumb enough to draw that much attenetion to themselves in RVS.

[mothrax]

That still doesn't answer my question Hoppster. In your post you said that since I had the most posts out of your nuetral reads I was more likely to be scum. Why? What about postcount makes me likely to be scum?

[mothrax]

I swear I had a post typed up this morning but apparently the intranets monster ate it...

Ok. We were wrong about KC. It happens. He looked scummy.

CrackHead deserves more pressure.

Wow we really stuffed that up

This feels feigned. Its my experience that posts like this come from scum (trying to win townpoints by feeling bad or expressing disdain at a scenario after townflips.)

So lets go back and look at the handy dandy ISO:
In a 14 post ISO, I only see two posts with any actuall scumhunting from CrackHead. Everything else is fluff...
It isn't untill post 10 that we get anything contributed from him. The only person he has expressed any suspicion of was KC, and that was after he openly admitted to not having any reads.
His post 9 boils down to "I am going to pick one of the two people arguing and run with it." After that, he attacks KC for two posts and then just sits. We have no notes of suspicion from him.

[mothrax]

First Official Vote Count of Day One

Cirno - 2 (

Hazard with a Glove

, tylerjarvis)
Mist7676 - 2 (Hoppster, mothrax)
mothrax - 2 (Cirno, Mist7676)

Not Voting: drmyshottyizsik,

Kcdaspot

, swampthing2011

Second Official Vote Count of Day One

Cirno - 3 (

Hazard with a Glove

, tylerjarvis, Mist7676)
Mist7676 - 2 (Hoppster, mothrax)
mothrax - 1 (CrackHead)
drmyshottyizsik - 1 (

Kcdaspot

)

Kcdaspot

- 1 (Cirno)

Not Voting: drmyshottyizsik

Third Official Vote Count of Day One

Cirno - 3 (tylerjarvis, Mist7676, CrackHead)

Kcdaspot

- 3 (Cirno, drmyshottyizsik, mothrax)
drmyshottyizsik - 2 (

Kcdaspot

,

Hazard with a Glove

)

Not Voting: Hoppster

Fourth Official Vote Count of Day One

drmyshottyizsik - 3 (

Kcdaspot

,

Hazard with a Glove

, Cirno)
Cirno - 2 (

tylerjarvis

nopointinactingup, Mist7676)

Kcdaspot

- 2 (drmyshottyizsik, mothrax)

Not Voting: CrackHead, Hoppster

Fifth Official Vote Count of Day One

Kcdaspot

- 3 (mothrax, nopointinactingup, CrackHead)
drmyshottyizsik - 2 (

Hazard with a Glove

, Mist7676)
Mist7676 - 2 (Cirno, drmyshottyizsik)
CrackHead - 1 (

Kcdaspot

)

Not Voting: Hoppster

Final Vote Count of Day One

Kcdaspot

- 5 (mothrax, nopointinactingup, CrackHead, drmyshottyizsik, Mist7676)
drmyshottyizsik - 1 (

Hazard with a Glove

)
Mist7676 - 1 (Cirno)
CrackHead - 1 (

Kcdaspot

)

Not Voting: Hoppster

What I find most interesting about these votecounts is that after the second votecount, Hoppster has not voted. In fact, hoppster has only laid down one vote the entire game.

I find it really difficult to believe that no scum were on the lynch. My bet is on CrackHead (see earlier post.) It could be mist as well, but I am getting more newbtroll vibes than scum vibes from mist.

off the wagon, I would place bets on Cirno being scum. She was voting KC earlier in the day and then wanted nothing to do with it once the wagon took off. Even went as far as to call it "retarted" It reads like someone trying to distance from what they know is a mislynch...

Vote: CrackHead

[mothrax]

@nopoint: The summary is that cirno is likely offwagon scum. Mainly because of the early push on the wagon and then the complete flipflop towards the end. Not to mention that at the end of the day she contradicted herself multiple times.
I had crackhead as onwagon scum, but I am not so sure about that at this point. In fact I am more sure that cirno is scum than I am anyone else.

@nopoint and cirno: I have a town read on shotty mainly because of the effort he is putting into this game. I have not seen him doing that as scum. Though I haven't played with shotty scum since polygamist mafia. He has also made a lot of sense this game in his reads.

@shotty: can you link some recent scumgames please?

Unvote

consider this my threat to hammer.

[mothrax]

it is apparent you aren't going to do anything to help the town. The least you could do is pretend to be town. Being obstinant is doing nothing to persuade people against lynching you.

[ic]Here is a news flash: If you are town, you still win with the town if you are dead. the same goes for scum. That being said, if you are indeed town as you seem to say, the best play when at L-1 is to not be stupid about it. Do something to convince us you are town. I am really tired of this new wave of players who don't actually make cases and just go "lolgame" and vomit all over the thread. Part of the reason I became an IC is to try and counter act this. Yes, this is a game and it is supposed to be fun. There are going to be times when you aren't having fun (particularly when you are being wagoned.) This being a game doesn't mean it doesn't take effort. It takes hard work and dedication to actually find scum, otherwise we are just lynching randomly. [/ic]

I am not going to hammer yet because I want to hear from some other players before the day ends. This is not out of deference to you. My suggestion though: give us some reads, and try to make some real cases, not bets or drawings.

Also, inb4 "yousaidifyoufliptown, do you not think he is scum"
people can be wrong. Am I 100% sure cirno is going to flip scum? nope. I am more certain about cirno than anyone else though.

pedit: @shotty what are you reffering to?

[mothrax]

oh, nevermind @shotty: scum anything, though a newbie would be nice.

[mothrax]

hey, I was in 981 and popularity mafia! (nopoint was in popularity too iirc, killed me when I started looking badass... )
/memorylane

[mothrax]

nopoint had everyone but me fooled. I had to die. Also, weren't you only in that game for like 4 days irl?

[mothrax]

Your just mad cause I stopped playing from the sidelines and got taz lynched (which you took credit for... I was reading the game going "idiots! I lurk and suck all game, kick it into gear, lynch scum and make it clear who my next target is and die that night... wtf...")

I am p. solid on Cirno scum. But like I said, I am waiting to hear from others before I hammer.

[mothrax]

Was that a hammer? Hmm. I wasn't done with the day yet.

[mothrax]

Note to self: nopoint questioning commences tomorrow.

[mothrax]

Yes, the nopoint thoughts would have been regardless of cirnos flip, and still is. I popped in right after a "hammer" because I read along on my phone when I can't get to a computer to make the posts I want to make. Still on my phone btw.

[mothrax]

@nopoint: what makes effort a towntell?

I will respond to my "flip-flopping" once I get to a comp since it requires quotes.

[mothrax]

@nopoint: me calling cirno town then scum came with 5 day irl and one night in game in between it, in which I had plenty of time to reread. Yea, RVS made Cirno seem more town than scum, but her interactions with the KC wagon scream scum.

The same can be said for my shotty read. I was leaning scum on him but then when you pointed out his meta, I looked back and changed my mind on him. He is my weakest town read if it means anything.

and since I have heard from some people and gotten time to review, lets end this day...

Vote: Cirno

[mothrax]

No, I expressed intent to hammer multiple days ago, gave people time to move around, got what I wanted to get out of the way. Why wouldn't I hammer someone I think is scum?

[mothrax]

Damn I didn't even get a chance to post... I knew as soon as shotty voted me he was scum.

Also, my apollogies to the newbies this game, my IC performance was subpar. Don't let they deter you from other games.

[mothrax]

I will get some post game comments up when I get home (those who can't do teach)