Mini 1126 - Game over - Was Averagely Suspicious saved?

[Barry Allen]

The one point on which Ashblade and I can agree is that I would also like to see Bill show back up. It seems he disappeared when the Subwagon started and only showed up again when called out. As the heat on him subsided while we looked at Rob and later me he retreated again. Then he promises more post and doesn't follow through. Maybe this is like Peter Pan - clap if you believe Bill is scum and maybe he'll show up to defend himself.

[RobCapone]

Allow me to answer that question with another question: Is there any town motivation for obsessively pointing out even the most generic of suspicious behaviors of every other player in a game while under suspicion yourself?

since I am bored I was reading back.

the answer to this question is absolutely yes there is town motivation for pointing out scummy behavior while under suspicion yourself, you shoudl never stop scum hunting even if you are about to be lynched.

[subgenius]

The more I think about it, the more I'm not liking bvoigt.

1)He suggests lynching penpen today, which I think is a really terrible idea, for the reasons I explained earlier. (Gives us no information if he flips town, and gives us an excuse for lazy scum hunting today)
2)No posts with content yesterday (real life yesterday), but promises a good post today. His 'good' posts today give us: 595 & 596
-a rehash of EA's post against GreyICE
-a vague opinion about Barry being scummy
-a PBPA about how penpen isn't making sense. This is shooting fish in a barrel and not all that helpful.
With all that's been going on, I don't see either of these posts as addressing the game in any meaningful way.
3)He admits that Barry looks scummy, but keeps his vote on penpen for not making sense. Why would you keep your vote on the crazy player and not the scummy player if you genuinely have the goal of lynching scum?
4)Aside from his initial skirmish with SE, which involved a fairly trifling argument (and I know something about trifling arguments), has contributed very little original content to the thread. I am getting a distinct coasting vibe from bvoigt. I think he kept his vote on wikkiden for so long because wikki clearly was not going to be present to defend himself, and he is keeping his vote on penpen because he is also unable to defend himself. He says he thinks Barry is scum, but has done nothing to pursue it or add to the case against him. Instead, choosing to take easy shots at penpen.

Biggest point is (1). Lynching penpen just for the hell of it is a horrible, horrible idea and as untown as it gets.

As of now, it looks like Rob won't be lynched today. I still think his claim sucks and stand by everything in my case, but clearly my vote is not useful as long as it stays on him.

so

unvote

vote: bvoigt

I, too, am really looking forward to Bill's post. I still don't know what to think about him, and I want to hear more from him.

[GreyICE]

EA mentioned this already, but I do not like this post at all. You totally ignored his actual case, and basically used self-meta to clear yourself. What's your response to his point about Ashblade? Why did you call him scum in one post and obvtown in another?

So not only are you posting garbage, you're not even reading the damn thread and blatantly sheeping others cases?

Vote:bvoight

Maybe if you put one lick of effort into the thread you'd have done one single thing this thread that wasn't scummy. But you haven't. If we don't lynch you someday, you're still going to be alive at LyLo, because either you're scum, or you're town so dumb that you CAN'T EVEN READ THE THREAD.

[Erratus Apathos]

I confirm my vote so very, very much.

[subgenius]

Going back and re-reading your case, I'll agree that you have some pretty solid points. Sticking with bvoigt, but observing with interest.

[Dekes]

And that's strike number three for Hayker. One more and you're outta here!

[RobCapone]

so just pointing it out there that GreyIce has voted for

EA
Bill
Subs
myself
Bvoigt

I vote EA and number 2 is Ice
Hiraki and Zito vote Bill, and Ice votes Bill
EA votes Subs and Ice votes Subs
He votes me because I am on a list of people who potentially are scum because I was on both wagons and I defend my actions, Ice was on the list and he thinks defending yourself when on a list of potentially guilty is somehow admission of guilt.

than this post sticks out in my mind because it is an absolute lie, the only wagon he starts is mine, he doesn't start any other wagon, the bolded part is interesting too

I started ALL THREE wagons this game. PEOPLE ARE BEING LAZY.

THIS FUCKING SUCKS YOU LAZY TOWNIES.

and than Subs votes BV and Ice follows, even making a comment that bv has sheeped which is the pot calling the kettle black imo

Vote GreyIce

baa baa black sheep, you sheeped this whole fucking game and claim you started every wagon ROFL

[GreyICE]

I don't know if that's bog average failure, or if it's because he's still obv scum, but:

I didn't vote. I like waiting and I love making others wait.

I will give everyone a door prize if we put him at L-2 before page 6.

subgenius (L-2):

GreyICE,

Ashblade, RobCapone, Barry Allen, Bill McQuill

That's my response to your case, scum.

[RobCapone]

I don't know if that's bog average failure, or if it's because he's still obv scum, but:

I didn't vote. I like waiting and I love making others wait.

I will give everyone a door prize if we put him at L-2 before page 6.

subgenius (L-2):

GreyICE,

Ashblade, RobCapone, Barry Allen, Bill McQuill

That's my response to your case, scum.

1. a comment made before the game starts doesn't count first of all
2. right before you posted that I posted this

I didn't vote. I like waiting and I love making others wait.

clearly you missed scum wants to delay the start of the game, so this doesn't look good for you. besides generally making you look like a dick

so it was obvious who i was going to vote for once the game started, and once the game started I voted first so i started the wagon on him.

and lastly, where the fuck did you pull that vote count from, because look at this

Votecount 1.1

subgenius (L-5): Erratus Apathos,

GreyICE

Erratus Apathos (L-5): Barry Allen
Bill McQuill (L-3): Hiraki, Papa Zito, RobCapone, Snake Eyes
Hiraki (L-5): subgenius, Ashblade
wikkiden (L-6): Bill McQuill

Not voting: mockingjaye, wikkiden, Hayker

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch and 7 to no lynch.

Deadline is

March, the 3rd, at 06:00 p.m. EST

Votecount 1.2

subgenius (L-3): Erratus Apathos,

GreyICE

, Ashblade, RobCapone
Bill McQuill (L-4): Hiraki, Papa Zito, Snake Eyes
Hiraki (L-6): subgenius
wikkiden (L-6): Bill McQuill

Not voting: mockingjaye, wikkiden, Barry Allen, Hayker

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch and 7 to no lynch.

Votecount 1.3

subgenius (L-1): Erratus Apathos,

GreyICE,

Ashblade, RobCapone, Barry Allen, Bill McQuill
Bill McQuill (L-5): Hiraki, Snake Eyes
bvoigt (L-6): Papa Zito
Barry Allen (L-6): subgenius
Papa Zito (L-6): Hayker

Not voting: bvoigt, wikkiden

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch and 7 to no lynch.

and than we get to the one where you are finally leading the wagon, 4 full days later after being 2nd on the wagon for the previous vote counts

Vote count 1.4

subgenius (L-2): GreyICE, Ashblade, RobCapone, Barry Allen, Bill McQuill
Bill McQuill (L-5): Hiraki, Snake Eyes
bvoigt (L-6): Papa Zito
Barry Allen (L-6): subgenius
Papa Zito (L-6): Hayker
wikkiden (L-6): bvoigt
Hayker (L-6): Erratus Apathos

Not voting: wikkiden

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch and 7 to no lynch.

so really, try and come at me again bro because your response to my case just got disproven.

[Papa Zito]

My biggest beef with Bill is his chronic active lurking. 15 posts in 25 pages isn't terribly impressive, especially when a couple of those are from our fun pre-game show, and others are just excuses about not posting.

Of the posts that he did deliver, we have:

1. A vote on EA's terribad bandwagon. Arguing against the vote while making it.
2. Admitting that he's going after easy targets
3. Pushing the subgenius wagon to L-1 for "welcoming pressure" when that's a perfectly legitimate hunting tactic
4. Accusing others of nitpicky posting when doing that himself

If you can call Bill pro-town after what he's done thus far this game then Cirque du Soleil has a place for you.


You asked about your Barry case - I'm assuming that's iso 126 (holy crap)

1. EA vote, granted I'm suspicious of everyone on that wagon but I don't see "caution" as a scumtell. He's explained why he thought the guy was at L-1 already and I don't have an issue with his explanation.
2. His second vote on subgenius is suspicious but not for the reason you raised. I'm more concerned with the false dichotomy he presents in which Bill and Sub are the only possible lynch candidates.
3. Moving his vote from subgenius to Bill isn't really telling. He just got through saying his top two were Bill and subgenius, and in that post he explains his shift.

So yeah.

The two were valid because it wouldn't be the first time I've caught someone with no idea who their vote was on. Sure, like 1% chance, but miracles happen.

?

Help me understand why you stopped everything you were doing for this 1% chance.

Eventually he'll get a scumgame out of all the ways people catch him) but people aren't down with lynching the claimed PR this time around, so w/e.

FTR Tracker is a really terrible claim to make, especially in a Normal.

I just confirmed in on my first official Newbie game yay!

Good luck!

OK...penpen is looking like one of those players who always survives to endgame because the town won't lynch him, and scum won't NK him. I don't know about anyone else, but I'm going to tell you right now that if we were both in 3-person LyLo, I would vote for him (assuming nothing drastic happens, but you know what I mean). We're going to have to lynch him eventually, so why not today?

Worst post in the game.

[Ashblade]

And time's up.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Bill

[GreyICE]

Help me understand why you stopped everything you were doing for this 1% chance.

I stopped everything you were doing because you were a short skirt and two pompoms away from role claiming cheerleader.

You're now providing good input and taking good stances, but dear lord I had no idea why everyone had you on a town read, and whenever everyone's doing that without reason on a player of your experience level, I wig.

I wig a lot, yes. Hazard of the job.

[GreyICE]

so really, try and come at me again bro because your response to my case just got disproven.

Not really, I'm going to ignore you. I don't seem to have six others game for lynching you today, and I'd rather find your buddies then sit around and get baited. I admire running cover for them in this circumstance, I really do, but I don't feel like playing.

[GreyICE]

FTR Tracker is a really terrible claim to make, especially in a Normal.

Dude, his last fake claim in a mini normal?

BOMB

Then he discovered we deal with bombs by arguing about who to throw on them until he gives up and claims scum in the thread.

Tracker is like three steps up on the fake claim ladder.

[RobCapone]

FYI bill is L-2 I think

[Ashblade]

The reasons I actually still think Barry is scum is interesting, in fact it doesn't exactly have that much to do with my case anymore, but more of his reaction to it. He explained some of it to my satisfaction (like not reading a post before he posted, I could see that happening). But then he called it a counter wagon to Rob's.

and then made this gem of a post.

As for not voting Ashblade or PenPen - I also do not believe in OMGUS votes. If you will note my original vote on EA was based in part on the OMGUS, and in part on claiming there was a case posted when in fact that wasn't a real case (at least not from my read). So to summarize: Yes I think this looks like a counterwagon, and no I'm not OMGUS'ing or voting a role claim even though that would be easy to do. I'm leaving my vote on someone I've suspected of being scum for quite some time, and I am comfortable with leaving my vote there.

Counterwagons are usually scum biased if another is scum... just...

...however the more I think about it (had all of last night to do so and I read your reply post to my case just this morning) the more I actually could see someone town writing this... so meh.

Also Bill's failed to do anything remotely useful.

If you can call Bill pro-town after what he's done thus far this game then Cirque du Soleil has a place for you.

lololololol

[RobCapone]

so really, try and come at me again bro because your response to my case just got disproven.

Not really, I'm going to ignore you. I don't seem to have six others game for lynching you today, and I'd rather find your buddies then sit around and get baited. I admire running cover for them in this circumstance, I really do, but I don't feel like playing.

So I disprove your statement and now you just go back accusing me of scum, you don't even admit that u f
got caught in a lie, or atleast say you were mistaken.

You just ignored the truth

[GreyICE]

*Sigh*

Bill hasn't done anything pro-town. The problem is, I have a suspicion he will flip town. He's not helping himself or us by lurking, but anti-town != Scum.

If we're going to lynch someone on the principle that they're scummy and generally useless, my vote will be on the penpen wagon in about 0.5 heartbeats. He's 100% guaranteed to be alive at LyLo unless we lynch him or he gets vigged. Given his cases so far, he's just going to run in and throw down a random vote... if he's town. If he's scum, we'll never know, because my comprehension of his posts is subzero - I just cannot understand what he's thinking when he posts. And Wikki's "I didn't know how many votes were on the six vote wagon" defense was bizarre, to say the least.

[Papa Zito]

so really, try and come at me again bro because your response to my case just got disproven.

Not really, I'm going to ignore you. I don't seem to have six others game for lynching you today, and I'd rather find your buddies then sit around and get baited. I admire running cover for them in this circumstance, I really do, but I don't feel like playing.

This is a bad answer.

subgenius (L-2): GreyICE, Ashblade, RobCapone, Barry Allen, Bill McQuill

Please explain where this came from and why it was sufficient to answer Rob's point.

Tracker is like three steps up on the fake claim ladder.

If he's not a tracker then he'll be easily caught.

What's penpen done that's been scummy?

[RobCapone]

Going on record now if Bill is town, ice is confirmed scum

ice voted bill earlier (claims to have started the wagon on him based on his own statement he has started the 3 wagons in this game) and now bill is L-2 and he thinks he is going to flip town

[RobCapone]

The first one was on town. And there's more town than scum this game.

What I think isn't the point tho. The point is that you think the subgenius wagon was bad because there was no counterwagon, but then there's a counterwagon on Rob. So doesn't that make the subgenius wagon a good one now?

This just hurts my head. First, lemme see:

-I've said Subs latest posts have me feeling more town than scum
-The period the subgenius wagon was ongoing was quite substantial, with no counterwagon arising
-I started the bleeding counterwagon

I mean seriously the only person I'd look at if Sub was scum out of that incident would be you, because of your wonderful IoA "lets see if the town will enjoy shiny thing X" style post, and actually the general volume of IoA that's floated out of your posts.

I'm not happy with Rob's recent posts, and I don't know how I feel about lynching claimed power on day 1. I've done it and had them flip power, I've done it and had them flip scum, I've backed up and had them flip scum anyway later. I've backed off, watched em provide jack, and get lynched two days later because "they weren't NKed" and had them flip their PR. But if someone starts a different wagon, I fucking want SOMEONE ELSE TO START THE WAGON. If we count the EA wagon from my offer of prizes pre-game, I started ALL THREE wagons this game. PEOPLE ARE BEING LAZY. THIS FUCKING SUCKS YOU LAZY TOWNIES.

quote to remind people of the most epic fail post this game

[GreyICE]

If he's not a tracker then he'll be easily caught.

What's penpen done that's been scummy?

Fine, we can catch him when he outs one of our PRs. Woo hoo. A fake tracker claim can work for a while, especially because when in doubt they can just fakeclaim results on scum. I don't know why it's 'so easy to out.' It's not the most provable damn power role on earth, and it makes a good fakeclaim because it's not doctor/cop level of stupid. Watcher? Now that's a terribad fake.

As for PenPen, as far as I can tell, he's done exactly what Bill has (to quote: "My biggest beef with Bill is his chronic active lurking.") Penpen active lurking? Some small examples:http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... lect=15279

That's his ISO.

1. Cases that make no bloody sense:
2. Great voting logic.
2a. Earlier
2b. Even earlier
3. Where his vote is right now

I swear unto god most of his posts are either him tentatively feeling around for wagon possibilities without starting anything, or HIM BREAKING MY BRAIN.

And I'm gonna wagon Bill for:


1. A vote on EA's terribad bandwagon. Arguing against the vote while making it. (

Penpen hasn't made a vote that made a lick of sense

)
2. Admitting that he's going after easy targets (

Penpen is doing what now?

)
3. Pushing the subgenius wagon to L-1 for "welcoming pressure" when that's a perfectly legitimate hunting tactic (

that reads like frustrated town to me. Like "You welcome pressure, scum? WELL GET IT."

)
4. Accusing others of nitpicky posting when doing that himself (

yay, inconsistency, a sure scumtell

) (

check penpen's brain-breaking Rob unvote for inconsistency

)


So yeah, If I'm fucking wagoning Bill, I'm fucking wagoning penpen first.

I don't like this wagon.

[RobCapone]

I'm not dumb enough to out a PR

sorry you don't beleive me but I AM the tracker and I am not mafia.

[RobCapone]

Grey your case on penpen sounds awfully familiar to what I try to do when I want to get rid of a VI

penpen's iso if I closed my eyes, I swear it was a drmyshotty alt.

He is playing useless townie, while annoying as fuck, it isn't a great reason to lynch when others are doing far worse things like promising content and not delivering (bill and hayker) or absolutely lying and got caught for it (you)