Open 274: Game Over!

[Alduskkel]

Confirm.

[Alduskkel]

Mod:

Setup is listed as having a Mafia Godfather instead of a Mafia Roleblocker at the beginning of post 2.
The first "your" of rule 4 should be "you."
And, most importantly, how long can a player be inactive before being prodded?

[Alduskkel]

Speaking of which, why so suspicious of me already, Hoopla?

[Alduskkel]

Mafia. It's on my wiki page FYI.

[Alduskkel]

Actually it's probably because I'm on Christmas vacation (although that will end very soon for me), so I have more time on my hands and thus this game receives more time as well.

[Alduskkel]

Last time I checked I've rolled Town 27 times.

So Hoopla, why the lie?

[Alduskkel]

Well, 28 with this game. 27 came from my wiki page, which does not yet include this game.

[Alduskkel]

Kuzco, I guess. But I just remember that because you asked me that same damn question in a marathon game. Then you claimed that was an obvious Goon favorite Disney character.

[Alduskkel]

I see you're trying to deflect from the original question with humor.

Why don't you just answer it?

[Alduskkel]

Yes, 'cause I'm stubborn like that.

[Alduskkel]

No no no no no.

I mean, why did you lie about your reason for your suspicions of me? You voted me in post 7 and then claimed in post 20 that the reason for the vote was because of something that could only be caused by my posting which had not occurred yet.

[Alduskkel]

So what, you voted me because I was scum in that one game?

[Alduskkel]

But Hoopla, here are 3 games that I know you've seen where I was Town.
https://www.mafiascum.net/archive/viewtopic.php?t=11087
https://www.mafiascum.net/archive/viewtopic.php?t=11084
https://www.mafiascum.net/archive/viewtopic.php?t=11081
If we follow BS statistics then you've seen me be scum 1 once and town 3 times. Therefore I am town 3/4 of the time, which is better than 5/7.

Also I can't find the game where you originally asked me what my favorite Disney character was. Was it a game from the shelter forum? Those links seem to be broken.

[Alduskkel]

Oh, I figured out where I went wrong with the links.

Also Fenchurch is browsing this forum. I expect posting. Surely there is something to say.

[Alduskkel]

Well, 28 with this game. 27 came from my wiki page, which does not yet include this game.

Did you have to go through your wiki and count before you made this post, or was the number in your head already?

I had to look it up.

[Alduskkel]

@Fenchurch: null on Hoopla ATM.

Mod:

You never answered my question about how long a person can be inactive before they are prodded.

Vote: ConfidAnon

. You just sort of joked around without kicking up dust (for the record, Hoopla joked around and kicked up dust) which strikes me as active lurkerish.

[Alduskkel]

@Hoopla: The ConfidAnon vote is better than a random vote, that's what I care about 3 pages into the game. Fenchurch is different than ConfidAnon because she is putting more effort into the game by asking questions.

ConfidAnon's post 49 is really just fluff, no substance.

[Alduskkel]

@ConfidAnon: reasons?

Slight town on andrew94 atm. His post #22 shows that he is paying attention to the game which is pro-Town.

Fenchurch's case is applying a double standard. andrew94 is scummy for having a crap case, but Hoopla is not scummy for it? All cases are kind of crappy currently.

[Alduskkel]

DMG: Why is Hoopla scum? What has she done to make "this game very difficult for town"?

[Alduskkel]

Town have to scumhunt, scum don't. So a given pro-Town player will probably pay more attention to the game in their attempt to scumhunt than an anti-Town player.

It's kind of like how lurking is scummy.

[Alduskkel]

Fenchurch's case is applying a double standard. andrew94 is scummy for having a crap case, but Hoopla is not scummy for it? All cases are kind of crappy currently.

It's not a double-standard. I have different expectations of a case and a vote right at the opening of the game, to those that come after. Is that not normal?

My point is simply this: given the information (available posts) at the time there were apparent inconsistencies in what Hoopla was saying vs. doing. andrew94 picked up on that.

Also, you seem to be implying that there was a significant time span between Hoopla's vote and andrew94's vote. It's only the difference between page 1 and page 2 (or page 3 depending on how you look at it).

The general vibe I got from his reaction to Stefunny's questioning. Rubs me the wrong way.

This is very vague. Please elaborate, if you can.

I might be alone here but apart from this question I have not the first clue of what to do. And that's Hoopla's fault. That's also why she's scum.

Its Hoopla's fault because she's the one that begun oddly which has put me out of sorts. I've played Mafia before on forums, yes.

This is really lame. I don't see how Hoopla can possibly be sabotaging your ability to play. This sounds like just an excuse to park your vote somewhere and then not do anything else because the person you're voting for has somehow caused you to be unable to do anything else. Frankly if you're confused then it's your fault, you need to read and understand the game. It's not Hoopla's fault.

I will give you the benefit of the doubt for now.

[Alduskkel]

Unvote.

@andrew94: Why is ConfidAnon suspicious? Are you comfortable with the fact that you placed him at L-1?

@DMG: Have you been scum before? If so, can you link to the game?
How is it Hoopla's fault if you're forgetting that certain people are, you know, in the game? All I see is you trying to shift blame onto Hoopla, who you claim to be scum because she has confused you. But, first of all, this is built upon the presumption that you are pro-Town (as if Hoopla has confused a Scum-DMG then that's a pro-Town thing), so we cannot follow your case because we do not know that you are Town.

Can you identify what Hoopla did to confuse you, and why it confused you? How is this a failure on Hoopla's part and not your own? You raised the idea that, because you did not have this problem in other games, then it must be a result of Hoopla's actions. However, if that is so, then why does no one else seem confused? How do you know it was Hoopla and not someone else who confused you?

Some of these questions are redundant but I expect detailed answers.

[Alduskkel]

How is it Hoopla's fault if you're forgetting that certain people are, you know, in the game?

This is a seven player game. I'm forgetting them because everyone didn't begin the game on equal footing. Hoopla took pains to make it so that when day begun this was "The Hoopla Show" and as such the only people I can recall are those that were players in The Hoopla Show.

Then when on earth do you intend to update your memory? It's not hard to keep track of 6 other people. If you have a poor memory then that is your fault and you should remedy it by reading up on players who did not participate in "The Hoopla Show."

Can you identify what Hoopla did to confuse you, and why it confused you?

Her distracting pre-game play meaning the day begun partway through the day only that is (of course) impossible.

But if anything this is a good thing because it kickstarts the game and gets us rolling fast.

How is this a failure on Hoopla's part and not your own?

If it was me then I'd be confused in my other game. I might be the only person who can fall for Hoopla's trick. That doesn't change the fact that it was Hoopla's trick.

You have a sample size of 1 other game. You can't base anything off of that. Furthermore, Hoopla's "trick" is awfully specific if it only works on 1 player. Do you really think Hoopla went into this game thinking, "If I post a lot pre-game, that will cause other players to not remember other players who didn't participate in the discussion!"?

You raised the idea that, because you did not have this problem in other games, then it must be a result of Hoopla's actions. However, if that is so, then why does no one else seem confused?

Honestly I haven't seen CA and Stefunny play as well as I'd expect from other games (CA especially) so I don't really agree with your premise.

What about their play seems sub-par to you? I can guess on CA, but inform me with regards to Stefunny.

1. He helped Hoopla with her anti-town play.
2. Process of Elimination
3. Gut (he's too busy clarifying things so nobody can make a bad case on him.)

Well, I would argue that Hoopla was not being anti-Town, and therefore I was not either. Process of Elimination I cannot address, unless you tell me how you are eliminating people. And gut I definitely cannot address. I will say that there is a lot that needs clarifying at this point in the game, so I am trying to clarify it. If you're wondering what exactly needs clarifying, just look at what I ask questions about.

I read pretty null on Ald, I think his questioning of Hoopla was pretty legitimate but I don't understand the Confid vote, especially based off of only 4 posts.

The fact that CA has only 4 posts is practically a part of my case. That, and the fact that they are very worthless posts.

[Alduskkel]

@DMG: Starting the game earlier is better because then there is more time to talk. And talking is almost always pro-Town, the one exception being that if you are talking so much that other players are unable to keep up then that is anti-Town.

And you haven't addressed my response to your case, either.

@Hoopla: What game are you comparing this one to with regards to Fenchurch's play? What makes you say Fenchurch is not trying to figure out alignment when she attacks?
---
Wish I could say I had a definite suspect ATM. ConfidAnon is not the most active guy from what meta I can recall of him, although that's not much of an excuse. And DMG could just be a confused townie; this is an odd play by him if he's scum.

[Alduskkel]

Backup claim sounds like a good idea to me. We get a confirmed Townie, and the only use I see for a backup PR is the 25% chance of Cop+Deputy. If we have a Doctor we're good to go on keeping that confirmed Townie around, and if we have Cop+Nurse then who cares much about the Nurse.

@DMG: Respond to my 142.

[Alduskkel]

DMG, it's still pro-Town. And you have not addressed my response to your case on me.

I must say that the hard part of buying your confusion is that neither I nor anyone else has experienced anything like that. I'd also like to point out that aside from attacking Hoopla for that, you've basically done little other scumhunting. All you really have is a generic ConfidAnon suspicion (which is now null because people who lurk for strategy reasons don't get replaced) and an unexplained suspicion of me.

@Mod: Deadline extension pending ConfidAnon replacement, please.

[Alduskkel]

1. He helped Hoopla with her anti-town play.
2. Process of Elimination
3. Gut (he's too busy clarifying things so nobody can make a bad case on him.)

Well, I would argue that Hoopla was not being anti-Town, and therefore I was not either. Process of Elimination I cannot address, unless you tell me how you are eliminating people. And gut I definitely cannot address. I will say that there is a lot that needs clarifying at this point in the game, so I am trying to clarify it. If you're wondering what exactly needs clarifying, just look at what I ask questions about.

So:
1. Can you explain how Hoopla was being anti-Town, considering that I have given a pro-Town reason for her actions?
2. How are you eliminating players?
3. What's scummy about clarifying?

[Alduskkel]

1. It confused me.
2. Town reads.
3, Its being over careful. More careful than how town would post.

1. We've been over this a billion times and no one ever convinces anyone else.
2. Yeah, well where the hell did you get those town reads? You can't just say that I look less town than other people without explaining why I look less town.
3. I quest for information. That is very typical town behavior. If I seem overly careful then I think it's more logical to think that that's just my playstyle. Feel free to meta me, I have a wiki entry.

And I am not the backup.

[Alduskkel]

Don't bullshit me DMG, in Open 209 I clearly asking for clarification in the follow posts (not quoted so as not to clutter the thread):
Iso 1 (2 times)
Iso 10
Iso 16 (2 times)
Iso 18
Iso 19
Iso 24
Iso 30
Iso 33
Iso 35
Iso 36
Iso 60 (4 times)
Iso 67
Iso 69
Iso 76
Iso 91

All of those posts are ones where I sought to clarify, which I defined here as "asking for an explanation."
Are you blind?

I eagerly await your post about how you've used process of elimination to find me scummy.

[Alduskkel]

First sentence should be "I clearly asked..." or "I was clearly asking..."

[Alduskkel]

I defined clarify as being like

You just sort of joked around without kicking up dust

Okay. Your definition of clarification is

wrong.

1: to make (as a liquid) clear or pure usually by freeing from suspended matter
2: to free of confusion <needs time to clarify his thoughts>
3: to make understandable <clarify a subject>

But let's just say for the moment that all this time you have, in fact, been accusing me of joking around without kicking up dust. Please identify any and all instances of me doing this. And, by the way, joking around in the RVS is not a scum tell, because that is the lighthearted portion of the game where little to no real scumhunting is occurring and everyone is mostly just screwing around.

[Alduskkel]

DMG, is English your first language?

[Alduskkel]

Oh, that was me being dumb and not remembering stuff either.

So since I've been misunderstanding your case for I don't know how long now I'll start over in responding to it.

For starters, quoting where I've been clarifying would be nice. For the one instance you quoted, I was drawing up a contrast between Hoopla (who some thought was scummy) and ConfidAnon. I will freely admit that I foresaw possible questioning about Hoopla vs. ConfidAnon and preemptively answered a hypothetical question. Could the part in parentheses have been omitted? Sure. I don't think it's scummy, given that if someone had questioned me about it then I would have given the same answer, only later.

By the way people, the deadline is set for 72 hours after ConfidAnon is replaced. Since he hasn't been replaced yet, we've got a bit of time. Also ConfidAnon is not scummy because he was not lurking as a strategy.

Also Empking = DMG? Alright then. Mind if I ask why you used an alt for this game?

[Alduskkel]

194 and 195, are you even reading the thread?

[Alduskkel]

Well if cautiousness is the only accusation being lobbed at me then I will just leave it to other people to decide whether or not that has to do with my playstyle or my role.

Anyway, to answer Fenchurch, I do not have any good scum reads ATM. One problem is that I have spent too much time arguing with DMG and waiting for CA. When I find the time I will read (or at least skim over) the game again.

The Hoopla case is very silly without any scum tells to back it up. The argument is that Hoopla is scum because she hasn't given off any town tells. But I can make the same argument in reverse: Hoopla is town because she hasn't given off any scum tells.

[Alduskkel]

Will reread and post on Saturday, but today I have no time to post. Sorry.

[Alduskkel]

DMG - I feel that to a certain extent in the early game he was deliberately playing dumb, trying to get some newb-slack, to the point where Ald asked if he english was his first language.

My questioning was more of a misunderstanding on my part than an error on DMG's part. I don't know if DMG ever got any newb-slack, I think he was playing for Confused-By-Hoopla-Slack.

Hoopla - Nothing helpful I can say; the last post seemed townie, but I know she's fooled me before.

I hate how open to backtracking this sentence is. To be blunt, it's scummy. And anyway, the thing that bothers me about your vote on me, Fenchurch, is that even if you believe Hoopla's PoE on me, then you still need to examine possible pairings with Hoopla herself, which you failed to do.

Also,

Vote: Aldusskel

That puts you at lynch minus one if you want to claim.

Are you going to offer any reasoning for this vote? All I see here is a bandwagoning L-1 vote with no justification, and again if you believe Hoopla I want to know how you eliminated Hoopla herself from being scum.

There's little I can say to Hoopla's PoE post, but I think the rapid last minute bandwagon on me does say something. The only person offering any resistance to my lynch is Empking, so if you believe I am scum with him then sure, whatever, but if you think I'm scum with someone else then it gets a little weird to think about why there is so far no one else protesting my lynch.

So in terms of individual scumminess I have been accused of coasting/not really scum hunting. All I can say is that real life has been affecting my play quite a bit, and I think you can see the quick decline in my activity after Christmas break ended, as I noted. One other problem is that I have too many town reads, but that's just an explanation and not an excuse, I know.

If you guys want me to claim, I will. I'll hold off on that though because no one has indicated that they are going to hammer me. If someone does, then I will claim.

Now I am going to start rereading to actually get some scum reads.

By the way, Hoopla, for the quotes in your PoE post could you provide post numbers? I would have a lot more to say about it if there was context to your case.

[Alduskkel]

Ald: Why isn't your vote on Fritz?

Don't know, guess it should be considering I know I'm town so lynching anyone else is better and also because of Fritzler's bandwagoning/sheeping.

VOTE: Fritzler

[Alduskkel]

Fenchurch, what specifically made you change your mind about me? It strikes me as a bit random because I don't think I said anything very compelling.

[Alduskkel]

I find it interesting Ald didn't claim at L-1.

Interesting how?

[Alduskkel]

Fenchurch, what happened to your vote chart? It was pretty useful.

[Alduskkel]

If andrew94 is scum, then why would he suggest that the backup claim? I don't see any scum motivation behind that. So andrew94 is very town to me.

[Alduskkel]

Bleh. Mostly necessity. But CA was active lurkish even before he decided to just quit, and Fritzler hasn't even really constructed a case. So far he has not stated why I am scummy to him either, despite the fact that he put me at L-1.

[Alduskkel]

As for the lack of partners, I am currently rereading so I'll get back to you on that.

[Alduskkel]

Also andrew94's plan to have a confirmed innocent is pro-Town because, from his perspective when he was considering the idea, if the confirmed townie was an otherwise scummy player then that would save us a mislynch, and possibly force the scum to NK that person, and even then they might fail. The only downside is that the scum are just slightly more likely to NK our PR.

Granted, Stefunny was never particularly scummy or anti-Town but the point remains.

[Alduskkel]

I don't understand what you find scummy about andrew94, Fenchurch. Also, now that I think about it, your vote on me and subsequent unvote was a really weird 180. You go from saying "Yesyesyes" to being totally unsure about my lynch.

[Alduskkel]

The only major mention of andrew94 being scummy seems to be Fenchurch's suspicion that his attack on Hoopla in the early game was bad and not genuine.

Pretty weak if you ask me.

[Alduskkel]

In case it wasn't clear, this is what I'm starting to get from my reread.

DMG did almost exactly what I predicted he would do: focus on Hoopla and do almost nothing else in terms of other scumhunting. We've got some scum hunting directed at me and a CA vote that was only justified with PoE. As an added bonus, he really hasn't been working towards getting the person he thinks is scum (Hoopla) lynched. He isn't trying to convince anyone, and hasn't except Fenchurch briefly.

Hoopla's PoE post seems well thought out and pro-Town, and in general whenever Hoopla decides to make a large post it comes out that way. So I'll tentatively declare a town read on Hoopla.

Fenchurch could be scum with CA/Fritzler, especially because Fenchurch is the only one who has not held a vote on him for a significant time (only 29 minutes, in fact). But the situation currently means that DMG is probably not scum with Fritzler.

So if we rule out myself, Stefunny, my two town reads, and the scumpair DMG - Fritzler, that leaves:

Fenchurch - Fritzler
Fenchurch - DMG

Unvote, Vote: Fenchurch

. I'm still shaky on this, but I think I will go with this PoE.

Now, since this puts me right on the chopping block and there are less than 5 hours until deadline,

I will claim: Full Power Role

.

I don't know if it makes any difference whether or not I am the Cop or the Doctor to the Town. So I will hold off on claiming that.

[Alduskkel]

Hopefully that's a scum lynch. I probably won't see you guys on Day 2, good luck.

[Alduskkel]

Argh. I forgot about the Roleblocker. Been a while since I thought about this game, gotta get back into it I guess and not be worthless save for being confirmed.

My first thoughts are maybe DMG or Fritzler? This game is more than a little confusing.

[Alduskkel]

I need not remind you that we are in lylo, andrew. But if the game is not over when all players have checked in then I guess it will be time to decide specifically between andrew94 and Fritzler.

In some ways Hoopla makes great points. As always I have to remind myself that she goes into it assuming that she is town but I cannot assume that. As an analysis from a Hoopla-town PoV, it works quite well, but I find myself doubtful because Empking's raises a very good point in 375. Is it truly believable that the two major wagons at the end of Day 1 were town driven? Possibly, if we're stupider than we think we are. Another problem is that andrew94's backup claim idea is a large town tell for him, but Hoopla's analysis implicates him.

Maybe one problem is that the primary scumhunting technique right now seems to be process of elimination instead of the normal searching for scum tells. Sure, with only 3 unconfirmed (from everyone's perspective but mine) and 2 scum it's highly tempting. Yet there must be individual scum tells out there to pick up on.

I have a 3 day weekend coming up which I will use to reread/skim the game and iso the living players (again).

The NK speculation on Stefunny doesn't roll with me. I feel like Stefunny may have been perceived as a better player than me (not saying she's not, but there is no objective test for that) because she had been confirmed for longer than me. A whole lot of people labeled me as lurky/cautious/indecisive, while Stefunny was not criticized. So the scum general opinions about our playstyles may have been the deciding factor.

The Fritzler slot is frankly hard to read due to a lack of info. But I'd say a scum read on him. Fritzler is decently active but does not actually make any cases on anyone, and if he expresses suspicion there is little to nothing to back it up. In fact, his votes on me and Fenchurch both read as straight up bandwagons.

[Alduskkel]

Errr, sorry for my absence.

Post upcoming.

[Alduskkel]

First of all, Fritzler's meta seems to match up with what he said just taking a cursory glance at this game.

Hoopla: How do you reconcile this quote:

From my perspective, at least one Fritz/Fenchurch is scum - as there is no way the Alduskkel-wagon leading up to deadline was all town.

with your current stance? Walk me through what made you change your mind.

Also, why would scum andrew94 suggest the back-up claiming idea?

Empking even going so far as to sheep off my Day 1 logic of believing Andrew to be town, despite not actually acknowledging these are his explicit beliefs too. This is very subtle and canny play by Empking, when he was guiding me with my process of elimination case late on Day 1.

Can you give me the relevant posts regarding this?

Alduskel: Do you think that Hoopla forgot about the Alduskel wagon she lead or hoping that you won't realize how much that ridicules her argument that only talks about the Fenchurch wagon?
Secondly, I'm pretty sure you at least were aware of my belief that Andrew was town due to it being my main reasoning for putting you as my third suspect.
Thirdly, do yuou think Hoopla is arguing in good faith when she said myself and Andrew could "choose" what happens? (bearing in mind that Hoopla chose what happens.)
Fourthly, according to Fonz and others when you're dealing with Hoopla level players you can basically judge their alignment by the results of their actions. In Hoopla's case her actions resulted in... the best (reasonable) possible situation for scum.
Fifthly, the Fenchurch weagon came out of nowhere. I strongly doubt such a wagon could lead to a lynch so quickly without some of the players working together (i.e being scum.)

1) Hoopla is obviously not bothering to mention herself. I don't expect her to, it is the rest of the players' responsibility to figure out her alignment. That's why she doesn't address herself in her PoE post. So I don't think Hoopla "forgot" about it, just that it's not her place to analyze it. (Seriously, are you asking someone to construct a case on themselves?)
2) Yes.
3) Hoopla's point as I understand it is that since you and andrew94 were under little to no pressure, you could play safely as scum. The reasoning there is solid. I'm not sure what you mean when you say that Hoopla could choose what happens.
4) Being wrong is not a scum tell.
5) Fair point, but a looming deadline can galvanize the town into action without scum needing to necessarily lift a finger.

andrew94: Why is Fritzler scum?
Fritzler: Why is andrew94 scum? Why haven't you voted for him?
Hoopla: Why haven't you voted for andrew94?

[Alduskkel]

andrew94, from my perspective, why is Fritzler scum instead of

you

? Of course from your perspective he's obviously scum, but you need to help me make the right choice (or fool me if you're scum).

[Alduskkel]

@andrew94: Usually in lylo if there are two people up for a lynch then those two people try to convince whatever other people there are that the other one is scum. I'm not asking you to do all the work, but if you think I'm just going to automatically vote for Fritzler then you've got another thing coming.

@Hoopla: Not buying it. DMG had plenty cause to believe andrew94 is/was town. You believed it too. I believed it. DMG just seems confident in his reads, I respect that. So his sureness that andrew94 is town is not scummy to me.

Also, you didn't actually answer my question: what is scum-andrew94's motivation for the backup claim idea? I understand why you changed your mind, but I want to hear why you think andrew94 did that.

@DMG:

Do you but Hoopla's argument that she eliminated Andrew before I did (bearing in mind the conversation we had.)?

Well, I don't know what conversation you're referring to unfortunately (maybe I'm just tired -- writing this at about 1:00 A.M.). But Hoopla has been saying that andrew94 is town longer than you have, if that's what you mean.

Secondly, why do you think CA wasn't lynched?

Now that you mention it, probably because Hoopla moved to Fenchurch with me instead of hammering Fritzler. Then it was Fritzler and Stefunny who moved to lynch Fenchurch.

A scum team of Hoopla/Fritzler could work if 349 is Hoopla saying, "Fritzler, help me lynch Fenchurch." Just a possibility. Fritzler is correct that from my PoV the most obvious scum teams are Hoopla/Fritzler or andrew94/Empking.

@Fritzler: As with andrew94, you've told me why from your perspective andrew94 is scum, but not so much why from my perspective I should believe that andrew94 is scum. Oh, and why is DMG suspicious to you?
---
I think I'll actually do that reread/iso this weekend instead of slacking off. TBH I always hesitate to post in this game since it's kind of intimidating to try to figure out who's scum here. I guess my consolation is the 50% chance regardless of what I do that I'll be right.

[Alduskkel]

@Hoopla: When you unvoted in post 149 why didn't you revote ConfidAnon/Fritzler?

In posts 345 and 347 you suddenly switched to Fenchurch after I claimed. Why Fenchurch over Fritzler, when you had expressed suspicion of the Fritzler slot previously but little of Fenchurch?

Scum team is obviously one of:
andrew94 - Fritzler
Fritzler - Hoopla
andrew94 - Empking

I say this only because Hoopla inexplicably listed Fritzler - Empking as a possibility. Speaking of which, what made you say that was possible, Hoopla?

Also are you guys seriously going to sit here while I just sort of blandly mull over this game a bit? I'm both annoyed and surprised that andrew94 and Fritzler have done almost nothing to try to convince me that the other is scum.

[Alduskkel]

Uh, I'm not asking you guys to do all the work, I'm just annoyed that you guys are asking

me

to do all the work. It shows a lack of pro-Town motivation on both of your parts, that you do not particularly seem to care if I just might vote for you and cause the Town to lose!

[Alduskkel]

...

Vote: andrew94

I'm just trusting that the amount of effort into PoEing scum into a corner put out by Hoopla is an indicator that she's town. Also fair point, andrew94 and DMG haven't done a whole lot to consider each other as suspects.

Some things do bother me as Hoopla:
-Her smiley at Fenchurch's death. Friendliness, or the ol' "OH NOES SOMETHING ANTI-TOWN HAPPENED, I AM TOWN AND UPSET!"

I will vote Andrew now, since it looks like Alduskkel is going to be the deciding player at the end of this. Take your time, ask questions and try to figure the game out from a scumteam perspective. I think you will see the truth if you try to figure it out this way.

A lot of Captain Obvious here. Take your time, ask questions. Sound advice, but very easy to dish out as scum and not actually affect a whole lot while looking pro-Town.
-andrew94's back-up claim idea is still a town tell overall.

Anyway the game is stalling, I'm being Captain Obvious here by saying that, so I'll just hope that I'm write. 50% chance minimum.

Good job, whoever is scum. This game is nearly impossible to puzzle out, at least to me.

[Alduskkel]

So we win? Sweet. Though TBH I felt like I was almost flipping a coin when I voted. Didn't feel satisfying when andrew94 flipped scum since I was so unsure.

Anyway, great game by andrew94 for that backup claim idea for townie points. Was that intentional? Empking was good too, though maybe you two should have bussed more. IDK.

Nice playing with you all, and thanks to BlakAdder for modding.

[Alduskkel]

Which is exactly why Hoopla never hammered Fritzler.

[Alduskkel]

God damn. Well played, that was some scum play. Was it fully intentional though? I would love to hear more post-game thoughts from you guys.

I find it funny how much I stressed over lynching the right person when I had a 100% chance of lynching correctly. Also, Hoopla, I don't blame you, I probably would have hammered Empking faster than you did.

[Alduskkel]

I was well aware that I was up for the lynch if the votes didn't swap around a fair bit.

[Alduskkel]

To be honest, I don't know, I've forgotten my thought process back then. It might have been that I simply didn't think about that, my post where I voted for you was based off of PoE.

Hoopla's post detailing her further case on you made so much sense to me that I was rather shocked when you flipped town, too. It seemed like the puzzle pieces fit, that your actions were all an attempt to stop me from claiming.

I don't think you could have left your vote on me, I think there was too much time left on the deadline clock for that to be reasonable (not sure though). You definitely could have moved to Fritzler if you were scum, though.

Considering you were a mislynch Fenchurch, if I were you I wouldn't expect the "logic" leading to your lynch to make perfect sense, especially not in hindsight.

[Alduskkel]

Might want to PM Hoopla to get her to notice the thread, if you care enough to do that.

BTW was I really soft claiming? I don't think I would have reacted differently as another role. My current theory stance is to only claim if you're about to be hammered, and being at L-1 is not necessarily the same thing.