A Storm of Swords - Lay your swords down!

[Bunnylover]

EBWOP: This is the Bunnylover case/ISO. Most of the analysis posted by this player is WIFOM, fishing blantantly for Locke Lamora's role, a vote for us to Policy Lynch someone with a post restriction while not making a case why he's scum, sheeping, somewhat untrue setup speculation, and is generally somewhere between scummy and unhelpful in general.

Wait what.
Fising for LL role? A person said they knew LL role (name) and I wanted LL to confirm that so in case LL is scum he fake claims something that Zoraster didn't say while LL had already agreed that that was his claim. I wasn't asking for powers or anything, I don't see how a name claim is harmful. For example if LL had said, "Oh Yes I am that person," when Zoraster had fake claimed the first time, we would have a confirm scum on our hands or maybe dead not sure how it would go down. Plus I wasn't the only one who asked for it.
Name claim =/= Role claim.
I explained why we should lynch Raivann and Hasdgfas (before the vig shot). Yes Hasdgfas was more on the PL line, but I explained why.
Sheeping what? Where have I sheeped?
Setup Speculation? If I'm speculating about the setup how do you know its untrue unless you have inside knowledge that would prove it untrue? Since your withholding that information would that make you anti-town?

[Magua]

Diddin's death seems to imply a third faction, something that was brought up before. We could have a Vig, sure, you've been pretty analytical Magua, what do you think there?

Hard to say. It's certainly plausible that there's a third faction, which is why my first post of the day said I don't think Raivann, MagnaofIllusion, xvart, or Zdenek are Stark, rather than "I think they're town".

I would certainly like to believe that diddin was a vig kill, but at this point, given the information we have, it doesn't matter. Some faction other than the Starks killed a Stark, which is good for us. Save the multi-mafia/SK/vig speculation for when we have more information about the nightkills -- D3 or D4.

@Ghostlin:

Do you think diddin was bussing Raivann through most of D1?

@Ghostlin, Bunnylover, Thor:

Votes please.

[Thor665]

@Magua - already outlined when I would.

[Ghostlin]

EBWOP: This is the Bunnylover case/ISO. Most of the analysis posted by this player is WIFOM, fishing blantantly for Locke Lamora's role, a vote for us to Policy Lynch someone with a post restriction while not making a case why he's scum, sheeping, somewhat untrue setup speculation, and is generally somewhere between scummy and unhelpful in general.

Wait what.
Fising for LL role? A person said they knew LL role (name) and I wanted LL to confirm that so in case LL is scum he fake claims something that Zoraster didn't say while LL had already agreed that that was his claim. I wasn't asking for powers or anything, I don't see how a name claim is harmful. For example if LL had said, "Oh Yes I am that person," when Zoraster had fake claimed the first time, we would have a confirm scum on our hands or maybe dead not sure how it would go down. Plus I wasn't the only one who asked for it.
Name claim =/= Role claim.
I explained why we should lynch Raivann and Hasdgfas (before the vig shot). Yes Hasdgfas was more on the PL line, but I explained why.
Sheeping what? Where have I sheeped?
Setup Speculation? If I'm speculating about the setup how do you know its untrue unless you have inside knowledge that would prove it untrue? Since your withholding that information would that make you anti-town?

1)...The Has case was weak to the point of nonexistant. You didn't bother to expand it any with proof of how/why he would BE scum. You just went 'bad post restriction is bad.'

2) My point is, why should LL have to claim

anything

seeing the 3rd party claim and LL wasn't a suspect?

3) You sheeped onto the Raivann wagon with kinda a 'lol, that post sucked', (I'm paraphrasing) didn't expand that at all, and indicated you'd jump onto a Zoa wagon once you found out the reason he lied. (You never did, but indicated willingness too.)

4) I didn't say the speculation was untrue, I said it was unhelpful: NK's are the most nebulous way to get information about a setup. The number of NKs should not been taken as a credible bit of information, and yet you seem(ed) to want us to take this as evidence.

[Ghostlin]

@Magua: Vote on BL, Nominate on Raivann.

[Magua]

Thor, what is the point of posting:

I actually support the idea of flipping Raivaan at the moment but I'm pretty sure I ought to be able to come up with a better scum read than 'let's flip the other wagon for reads on who was on it' so at the very least I'm going to read up and see if I'm actually willing to call Raiv individually scummy before I vote him.

This post translates as "I support lynching Raivann but I don't actually I'm going to wait a bit." Why even write this? If you support lynching Raivann, vote her, if you don't, then I have no idea what your thought process was at this point and would very much like to know.

@Ghostlin:

Sorry, missed your BL vote.

[Thor665]

@Magua - my thought process is as follows;

Cheese, Cookies, Milk Beer, I like Christmas but find Thanksgiving more relaxing and enjoyable for the overall month...cheese.

My presented thought process is thus;

I want to lynch Raivaan for, and only for, the information gained by seeing that slot flip with a few of the hoppers towards the end of Day 1. I admit I don't actually have a scum read on him myself and announce I'm going to go read up and if I get said scumtell he'll be my vote. If I get a towntell he won't. I did this so people would have something to react to off of me, and also so I could flesh out my post in order to lure more people into commenting on it so I could start babbling at them and get some reads without having to read back since I find that part of the game tedious, not so fun, and generally only semi-useful for my own reads.

What of it?

[Bunnylover]

EBWOP: This is the Bunnylover case/ISO. Most of the analysis posted by this player is WIFOM, fishing blantantly for Locke Lamora's role, a vote for us to Policy Lynch someone with a post restriction while not making a case why he's scum, sheeping, somewhat untrue setup speculation, and is generally somewhere between scummy and unhelpful in general.

Wait what.
Fising for LL role? A person said they knew LL role (name) and I wanted LL to confirm that so in case LL is scum he fake claims something that Zoraster didn't say while LL had already agreed that that was his claim. I wasn't asking for powers or anything, I don't see how a name claim is harmful. For example if LL had said, "Oh Yes I am that person," when Zoraster had fake claimed the first time, we would have a confirm scum on our hands or maybe dead not sure how it would go down. Plus I wasn't the only one who asked for it.
Name claim =/= Role claim.
I explained why we should lynch Raivann and Hasdgfas (before the vig shot). Yes Hasdgfas was more on the PL line, but I explained why.
Sheeping what? Where have I sheeped?
Setup Speculation? If I'm speculating about the setup how do you know its untrue unless you have inside knowledge that would prove it untrue? Since your withholding that information would that make you anti-town?

1)...The Has case was weak to the point of nonexistant. You didn't bother to expand it any with proof of how/why he would BE scum. You just went 'bad post restriction is bad.'

2) My point is, why should LL have to claim

anything

seeing the 3rd party claim and LL wasn't a suspect?

3) You sheeped onto the Raivann wagon with kinda a 'lol, that post sucked', (I'm paraphrasing) didn't expand that at all, and indicated you'd jump onto a Zoa wagon once you found out the reason he lied. (You never did, but indicated willingness too.)

4) I didn't say the speculation was untrue, I said it was unhelpful: NK's are the most nebulous way to get information about a setup. The number of NKs should not been taken as a credible bit of information, and yet you seem(ed) to want us to take this as evidence.

1) It was a PL, yes, I already admitted that. I never said Hasdgfas was 100% scum, just don't want to wait till the 6th day with 6 people left and Hasdgfas is still their and were wondering is the cow scum faking a PR or what.

2) Did you not read what I posted? Yes its unlikely for that to happen, but always good to get even the smallest chance of something out of the way. I don't see the harm in one person name claiming, so I'm confused why this is bad? Did we know he was 3rd party? No we didn't. I hate that LL never had the chance to respond to the claim, but I saw no harm it could do for LL to name claim and if he had name claimed the first time Zoraster fake claimed, Zoraster would have been lynched sooner (be it like 8 post sooner, but still).

3) You didn't read my Raivann should be lynched before Zoraster post where I showed the scenario of what could happen for each flip. It made more sense to lynch Raivann. Raivann wasn't doing anything to help the town. Raivann was just here, made several unexplained votes, made that stupid post of "Don't vote me I got a town read on you," which is just ew. I had my own reason to vote Raivann.
Zoraster, yes I was going to join the wagon, but not till

I SAW HE LIED

. I go by the rule, lynch all liars.

4) This is what you had said

somewhat untrue setup speculation

. I didn't say, "HEY TOWN WE SHOULD ALL DETERMINE HOW MANY GROUPS THEIR ARE BY THE KILLS IN THE NIGHT." Thats how I do it, yes. I was asked by what evidence I was talking about, and thats the evidence I go by.

Your trying to make something I said that has no significant meaning into something giant. Their probably a lot of other things you can find about me to push your lynch on me without having to grasp at straws.

@Magua: Not sure where I'm going to put my vote. I'm debating with-in my head rather or not to vote Raivann, but if he town he just such an easy mislynch. I mean even I think he's scum, and I'm useless in my reads almost all my games except for three and one was with like 8 people left.

[Magua]

@Magua:

Not sure where I'm going to put my vote.

I'm debating with-in my head rather or not to vote Raivann, but if he town he just such an easy mislynch.

I mean even I think he's scum

, and I'm useless in my reads almost all my games except for three and one was with like 8 people left.

Do you see the discrepancy here?

[Magua]

I want to lynch Raivaan for, and only for, the information gained by seeing that slot flip with a few of the hoppers towards the end of Day 1. I admit I don't actually have a scum read on him myself and announce I'm going to go read up and if I get said scumtell he'll be my vote. If I get a towntell he won't. I did this so people would have something to react to off of me, and also so I could flesh out my post in order to lure more people into commenting on it so I could start babbling at them and get some reads without having to read back since I find that part of the game tedious, not so fun, and generally only semi-useful for my own reads.

What of it?

You had votes on xvart and on Mikujin D1. Do you not find them scummy anymore? Why would you propose a lynch on Raivann instead of voting one of those two?

[Thor665]

I never had a vote on xvart - my slot did. Difference.

Since the Mikujin vote 'things have happened in thread - like dead people and wagons that led to lynches. That changes the lay of the gamescape in my opinion and defeats the super solid and expansive Mikijun=scum case I had presented and pressed for earlier.

[hasdgfas]

Nominate: Raivann

Not too sure I am going to keep a nominated vote this day. The person who gets nominated if scum would have a perfect excuse to stay off the VC analysis (of course we will still ask them to vote, but come around day 5 if we get that far we aren't going to be going through each other ISO to see our votes, were going through the mod ISO to see the VC which they won't show up).
Although making them lose their power is a plus side.

vote: Bunnylover

*points at DTMaster*
*points at own mouth*

[Bunnylover]

@Magua:

Not sure where I'm going to put my vote.

I'm debating with-in my head rather or not to vote Raivann, but if he town he just such an easy mislynch.

I mean even I think he's scum

, and I'm useless in my reads almost all my games except for three and one was with like 8 people left.

Do you see the discrepancy here?

Basically I'm self doubting my read.
Yes I think he scum.
Looking back at my past game, my reads are usually wrong.
Should I follow my reads that are usually wrong or consider something else.
That why I haven't voted. Their no discrepancy, I just don't know if I should trust my reads.
Like I said yesterday if we lynch Zoraster before Raivann, Raivann will still be viewed as scummy while the other way around Zoraster wouldn't have. So should I go with my read even though my mind tells me scum didn't lynch Raivann because they knew they could lynch him tomorrow or scum didn't lynch Raivann because he part of their group.
Bah, I hate how my mind work =/.


And yes I agree with Hasdgfas, DTM needs to speak up more and gives his opinions (that is what your saying?)

[Bunnylover]

Actually Hasdgfas, I don't understand your vote on me. Can you bold what part of that quote is given you the reason to vote?

[Eddard Stark]

Vote count 2.2

Raivann (1) Shadow1psc
Twilight Sparkle (2) Magua, MagnaofIllusion
Bunnylover (2) Ghostlin, hasdgfas

Mikujin (3) Danakillsu, DrippingGoofball, LynchMePls

danakillsu (1) Kast

Not voting (12) Raivann, Zdenek, Benmage, Twilight Sparkle,Feysal, Bunnylover, xvart, Nexus, Mikujin, DTMaster, Locke Lamora, Thor665

With 21 alive it takes 11 to lynch. No majority at deadline and there'll be no lynch.

Envoy to the Eyrie

[/u]

Mikujin (1) Magua

Bunnylover (3) Danakillsu, MagnaofIllusion, LynchMePls,

Raivann (2) Bunnylover, Ghostlin
Zdenek (1) Kast

Not nominating (14) Twilight Sparkle, Shadow1psc, Nexus, Danakillsu, DrippingGoofball, Locke Lamora, xvart, DTMaster, Benmage, Thor665, Mikujin, Zdenek, Feysal, Hasgfas

With 21 alive it takes 11 to sent someone to the Eyrie

* No one due a prod yet (Obviously). Mikujin will be replaced.
* Kast is on V/la. As is THE LOCKE.
* Any mistakes in the VC point them out
*The deadline is two weeks and can be found here.

[/quote]

[Eddard Stark]

Setael replaces Mikujin, welcome her to the game! She'll be unable to post much untill Tuesday though. Also gonna be lenient on activity with it being the scummies/marathon weekend.

[Benmage]

Magua is gonna be someone I can appreciate this game.

Flavor says that Zoraster wasn't bluffing at the end.

Probably

hasdgfas and Locke are confirmed town, as far as I'm concerned.
Shadow remains a strong town read.

Agreed…I’ll tell you why shadow in a second.

GreyICE was a townread, but DTMaster, meh, not so much at this point.

This….Oh, dtm replacement..hrmm we’ll see.

I highly doubt Raivann is Stark. diddin rode her lynch over Zoraster's for a long time (till one hour before lynch, as it turns out).

I have a town read on Raivann…so you reason any way you can as long as it matches mine.

Actually, looking at the wagon on diddin yesterday, I am disinclined to believe that any of Raivann, MagnaofIllusion, xvart, or Zdenek are Stark.

Hmmmm…I’ll have to look into xvart and Zdenek.

VOTE: Twilight Sparkle

Nominate: Mikujin

Definitely the right course of action.

HEY MOI

…I could have cases now to lynch our VI’s but they’re town….so I can’t do it yet. Chesskid was obvtown but nonetheless whoever shot there…THANK yoU god!

Also good shot on diddin, but rather obvious scum.

Here’s our confirmed town VI’s:
In the midst of the worlds worst fakeclaim we have:

unraise raise: hascow

@ Benmage
Any reason you didn't want me to vote Zoraster?

No vote VI.

At this point, it would seem to me we test his claim, rather than lynching him.

Wants to test rather than easy lynch.

Unvote

Vote: MoI

it's not moving

Votes someone else.

@Zoraster: Is Petry not a Lannister? If Petry is, then I'm confused as to why LL wouldn't come out and say it. I'm confused =/.

Game above him.

So here is how our VI-Town reacted to the worlds worst fakeclaim. I’m sorry…but even scum VI’s are gonna hop on an easy mislynch.

So as far as I am concerned BunnyLover, Shadow, and Dana are ALLL TOWN. NONE OF THEM WILL BE LYNCHED TODAY.(Vig/SK soon to fakeclaim vig..Chess was acceptable, do not shoot these)

MoI

…See. This could’ve be spun for the worst. Not the best. This is a case for why they should live…but also why without this evidence they are POLICY LYNCHES! Next someone will talk they’re way out of being tracked to a dead guy.

FML.

Now. Let us examine how a scum reacts to the worlds worst fakeclaim:

unvote, Vote: zoraster

. His claim is obv. scum. Bunny's slip has also been noted by myself and others and Bunny still wants Raivann lynch. That makes me lose quite a lot of faith in the Raivann case.

One post. One vote. No curiosity.

Also, I really doubt zoraster's claim is true.

Unvote, Vote: Zoraster

(L-3)

The better player plays it with a little more coy. But still. One post. No curiosity. One vote.

[Benmage]

Rough sketch looking at pg 1...decending from most town to least town lets see:

TOWN
Benmage -

Hand of the King

Percy Ghostlin
Locke Lamora
Magua
Bunnylover
Danakillsu
Hasdgfas
Shadow1psc
Raivann
MagnaOfIllusion

NEUTRAL

GreyICE

DTMaster
DrippingGoofball
xvart
LynchMePls
Zdenek

SCUM
Feysal
Kast

MORE SCUM

Mikujin

Setael
Nexus

Song of ice and fire

Thor665
Twilight Sparkle


(Lets not question the town reads...waste of time.)

[Benmage]

I gotta leave for a little ..hate going mid ballierness. Uhm. Yeah bbl.

Meantime follow along:

Vote Sparkle

Nominate Setael

[Magua]

Since the Mikujin vote 'things have happened in thread - like dead people and wagons that led to lynches. That changes the lay of the gamescape in my opinion and defeats the super solid and expansive Mikijun=scum case I had presented and pressed for earlier.

Since I consider Mikujin to be scummy (see my nomination), I am interested in hearing what has occurred that makes you think he is less scummy than you did earlier.

[xvart]

One of Twilight Sparkle and Mikujin are scum. I put my money on Mikujin.
One of these three is scum: Danakillsu, Locke Lamora, Thor665. I put my money on Locke Lamora.

Mikujin or Lock Lamora would make excellent lynches for today.

What say you to Zoraster being a lyncher? Do you think zoraster's target would be a scum member? I would lean believing that LL is town right now based on this information.

MoI - what is the color coding in your 973? I would think that hascow would be more likely town at this point based on the dayvig result. And what does blue mean?

Reading Rai's ISO, he may not be scummy (although I'd almost bet a cheeseburger that he stands a good chance of it);

What kind of fence sitting is this?

What's the Bunnylover case? Considering at lynch yesterday she opted *not* to hop on a obv. 3rd party for super easy town points I'm kind of wondering. My read is currently town.

How does Bunnylover not voting a 3rd party make her town? Scum wouldn't know that zoraster was a third party, so avoiding that lynch could simply be avoiding a lynch of someone other than her faction (if scum). I'm not following your logic here.

Nevermind; saw your 987, but I still think that is a bit ridiculous assigning town points for both jumping on the wagon and also staying off of it...

Oh, I'm pretty sure Raviann's scum.

Then why are you only nominating instead of voting? And how does this opinion mesh with your previous wishy washy statement )quoted above) about Raivann's scum likelihood?

And what is the point of your ISO analysis? No context is provided and even subtext of the ISO posts you are referencing is missing. With all those "contradictions" I would think you would be ready to vote.

VOTE: Ghostlin

Name claim =/= Role claim.

Well, maybe. But seriously? It is highly likely that name claim would give at least a little indication if that person is worthy of a NK or not.

Basically I'm self doubting my read.
Yes I think he scum.

Then what are you waiting for? What else is your vote for except to vote for people you think are scum? Are you worried that the solid scum read you are doubting might actually go through less than 48 hours after the day started?

Nominate: Bunnylover

[Thor665]

Since the Mikujin vote 'things have happened in thread - like dead people and wagons that led to lynches. That changes the lay of the gamescape in my opinion and defeats the super solid and expansive Mikijun=scum case I had presented and pressed for earlier.

Since I consider Mikujin to be scummy (see my nomination), I am interested in hearing what has occurred that makes you think he is less scummy than you did earlier.

Tell you what, let me walk you through the sarcasm - I can occasionally be a little too clever for my own good.

Here's the sum totality of my case on Miku;

Will have a vote out at that time too just to toy with people's emotions when I place a vote without reading up on everything. Heck, let's do that now just for amusement's sake;

Unvote: xvart
Vote: Mikujin

Third leading wagon ftw. Totally serious vote.

Now, it is possible that when I talked about how vast and solid my Miku case was I *might* have been stretching the truth to some degree when I did so. I also *might* just be not voting right now because I'm still trying to get a more firm footing on the gamestate and most of the players because not all of them are hurling town tells other than the ones I've already noted. So, in conclusion, Miku is OBVIOUSLY waaaaaay less scummy than my initial, vastly researched and highly vitriolic case on him <--- hint of sarcasm winkie for help.

[MagnaofIllusion]

MODs – I’ll be V/LA from pretty much now until Monday morning for my normal weekend V/LA.

--

The only way you could attack me on this was either verbally splitting hairs or misinterpreting/representing what I actually said. You don't get to toss the defense back in my face for pointing out that I didn't say what you said I said. I can't defend something I didn't say.

Incorrect. I’m attacking you for taking stances that aren’t logically consistent in that post.

1. You complain about lack of meaty content to comment on.
2. You say you like Locke’s play, but he had two posts by page 8 consists solely of a RVS vote and a small comment on DGB based on loose meta. He certainly didn’t provide any ‘meaty content’ by that point.
3. You say you like Grey’s play despite his back-tracking and arguments that were repeatedly proven wrong or misguided.
4. You don’t comment at all about DGB despite him being the focus of your two Town reads above.

I don’t see the Town motivation for you to dislike DGB’s play but be afraid to voice your own opinion on it. It looks like you are happy to let others do the dirty work for you in that regard based on the difficulty of attacking DGB that you later state. Futhermore I find your explanation for your Town reads on those players to be lacking.

Until then - your current stated case as I am aware of it, is really weak. "They aren't townie enough" That's not a case.

Never said it was a case. You are the only one attempting to assert it is. My interactions and obeservations made Day with and about Twilight Sparkle are the base of my vote.

--

I would certainly like to believe that diddin was a vig kill, but at this point, given the information we have, it doesn't matter. Some faction other than the Starks killed a Stark, which is good for us. Save the multi-mafia/SK/vig speculation for when we have more information about the nightkills -- D3 or D4.

A good summary of why speculation at this point isn’t really worth the time.

--

Next someone will talk they’re way out of being tracked to a dead guy. FML.

Not likely since the two times we have seen it happen in joint games both players have been scum (ReaperCharlie in Supernatural and Maclock in Clash).

--

MoI - what is the color coding in your 973? I would think that hascow would be more likely town at this point based on the dayvig result. And what does blue mean?

Xvart have you been drinking? I ask because it isn’t exactly top level Cryptography going in in 973. The colors tie to the mod provided flip colors.

Red - Lannister
Blue – Stark
Green – Third Party

I mark Cow Red because he’s not Stark and unlikely to be third party giving up a kill to public scrutiny so easy Day 1. If the time comes we get evidence of another faction he goes back to basic black. For the reasons I have stated I’m doubting said faction exists.

[Ghostlin]

Xvart: I am voting. I'm voting the person you find scummy enough to nominate. I don't acutally have two votes, or I'd vote them both.

[hasdgfas]

Actually Hasdgfas, I don't understand your vote on me. Can you bold what part of that quote is given you the reason to vote?

*nods*

*points*

Not too sure I am going to keep a nominated vote this day.

The person who gets nominated if scum would have a perfect excuse to stay off the VC analysis (of course we will still ask them to vote, but come around day 5 if we get that far we aren't going to be going through each other ISO to see our votes, were going through the mod ISO to see the VC which they won't show up).
Although making them lose their power is a plus side.