Cold War Mafia - GAME OVER!!

[ThAdmiral]

The tell doesn't have to be gloating necessarily. It is more just mentioning the nightkills at all or expressing surprise or dismay about the nightkills.

[Amrun]

Mentioning the excessive number of night kills makes me scum? Okay then. Whatever.

I've explained why I made the post.

[Furcolow]

unvote

Would someone quote where Amrun was supposedly gloating? I view that as a scumslip.

[Amrun]

It's been quoted like 5 times, so no, I won't do it again.

It wasn't gloating, either.

[bvoigt]

It's far from a towntell. Invoking sympathy never works.

It's pretty much null to me. With all that's been going on, I think you should be able to find a better reason to vote someone than that.

[Sathoris]

It's far from a towntell. Invoking sympathy never works.

It's pretty much null to me. With all that's been going on, I think you should be able to find a better reason to vote someone than that.

A drop in the bucket.

[Amrun]

And yet that's the only thing on Furc I saw you mention.

[InflatablePie]

The actual point of the post was a very serious question: What does being pulled from the bunker mean?

Methinks we shouldn't dwell on this.

Still like my vote.

[Amrun]

I didn't want to dwell longer than to determine if that meant he could come back or not. I have since concluded it means he's dead, so, that was the point of that post.

[DavidParker]

Ghostwriter was town? I am surprised.

[ThAdmiral]

Ghostwriter was town? I am surprised.

Yeah, I know.

[gonnano]

I'll look into some of Lowell's other games for myself.
Meanwhile, Amrun is still scum. I voted for PI before, then unvoted because the wagon speed made me uneasy. Amrun has done plenty since then to help me get over my discomfort. Most notably, the claim and how none of it is townie in any way.

I didn't specify a target ONLY because people told me not to

I missed that before.

On balance, I think it would be more valuable to the town to announce your target ahead of time for one night. Then you can prove yourself (or disprove yourself), and the town suffers very little damage even if everything goes wrong. Plus, there's still information to be gleaned from seeing whether scum choose to block you or not.

Frankly, I think tying up a roleblocker is more valuable (in the long run) than having a silencer anyway.

[Amrun]

Well, gonnano, you should have spoken up anyway. That's what I thought, but no one else seemed to think so, and you were around at the time.

You're manufacturing a case based on something you were fine with yesterday.

Gonnano is scum.

[bvoigt]

Meanwhile, Amrun is still scum. I voted for PI before, then unvoted because the wagon speed made me uneasy. Amrun has done plenty since then to help me get over my discomfort. Most notably, the claim and how none of it is townie in any way.

We've already talked about the fact that the claim is not a scumtell. Specifically, what are those other reasons for voting Amrun?

@LMP: It looks to me like Sathoris is trying to skate by, and posting very little good content. You've played with him before, right? What do you think?

[gonnano]

We've already talked about the fact that the claim is not a scumtell. Specifically, what are those other reasons for voting Amrun?

It is a scumtell, though. A weakened scumtell after the Che flip, admittedly, but still a scumtell.

Given the way the Cold War panned out, it's much more likely for us to be finding scummy-sounding communist roles that end up being townie than it is for us to be finding scummy-sounding capitalist roles that end up being townie. And if McCarthy isn't scum, then there's probably not an American scumteam. However, as it stands there seems to be a definite possibility that there

is

an American scumteam, which in turn means that there is an equal possibility that McCarthy is scum.

Poison Ivy's play is a large part of why I don't like the slot; Amrun's claim is still a scumtell, and other than that Amrun's defenses of herself have been coming off as a little too vigorous to me overall, like someone who is more worried about staying alive than getting information for the town.

--------------------------------------------------

Well, gonnano, you should have spoken up anyway. That's what I thought, but no one else seemed to think so, and you were around at the time.

You're manufacturing a case based on something you were fine with yesterday.

Gonnano is scum.

As I said in 1286, I missed the interaction between you and Thad until just now when I read your response to me, went back, and looked it up. So at the time, I assumed that your intentions were still to announce your target before night.

But if you really believed it at the time, why didn't you give the reasons that I just gave? From going back and reading, it appears that everyone would have been open to a reasonable, logical suggestion. In fact, Thad is the only person I saw who gave any kind of reason not to do it that way.

Now that I think about it, scum could have very easily taken that opportunity to not announce a target, and get an opportunity to talk it out overnight and decide who the best "target" would be. Your response to Thad seemed a lot like "Well, when you put it that way it makes sense" which translates to "Finally, an excuse to not have to help the town any more than I have to" in scumspeak.

[Amrun]

If I didn't want to help the town, why would I have made the announcement that I was going to do it in the first place?

I wanted the town to come to a consensus on who to block, and almost no one payed attention. Then ThAd attacked the whole idea and I got a little less secure in whether it was a good idea at all.

No one said who they wanted me to target except Feysal, who said something I disagreed with, and no one disagreed with ThAd. Everyone was apathetic and I assumed tacit agreement with ThAd.

And plus, I decided that if I came out and said it in those exact terms that it would defeat the purpose. "If scum blocks me, then my projected target was scum!" That's probably the easiest misdirection technique ever and I'm sure scum would take advantage of it, probably even if I said nothing, but quite likely if I said something specific about it. It's not a good idea to plant ideas in scum's head about how to screw over town.


Your flavor argument is really terrible.

[DavidParker]

I'm gonna lean town on Amrun. I mean a town roleblocker wouldn't really roleblock a "silencer". I just don't think it's likely. Now if he's scum he shouldn't have been roleblocked at all. The only thing that makes some sense is a different scum group to Amrun's roleblocking him.

Basically I see one of two things happening:
Town Amrun got roleblocked by scum to set him up.
ScumA Amrun got roleblocked by ScumB to set him up.

First seems slightly more probable.

[gonnano]

If I didn't want to help the town, why would I have made the announcement that I was going to do it in the first place?

You would have offered to let the town pick a target in order to gain town cred and not be lynched. As scum, you would then jump at the chance to "assume tacit agreement with Thad" instead of doing what you know to be better for town.

And plus, I decided that if I came out and said it in those exact terms that it would defeat the purpose.

Not at all. The purpose was to prove that you were what you said you were -- which you haven't. And giving the sort of WIFOMY logic behind picking a target could only increase your chance of not being roleblocked (because even if you target scum there's now a chance that they will choose not to RB you), therefore helping achieve the real purpose of announcing the target, which is to verify part of your claim.

Your flavor argument is really terrible.

No it isn't. Even without Che, potential communist scum names are plentiful. It's going to be tough to find capitalist names to put on a scumteam to begin with (since the winners get to write the history), and not including McCarthy is like shooting yourself in the foot as a mod.

DP: Also, someone could have legitimately wanted to block Amrun's power, either because scum thought he was a town PR or because town thought he was scum. He could even be lying about his power.

[Amrun]

I disagree completely. I didn't want to give scum ideas and that's why I didn't come out and state explicitly. No one seemed to want to go along with my plan.

Your Che argument is still terrible.

[smargaret]

Nacho, look at Amrun's second post in the game. Do you see anything there?

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Amrun

[ThAdmiral]

I still think amrum shouldn't claim her target before night, especially now that I think amrum isn't scum.

Since llama and gw are dead I'm going to look at the people who pushed bunny over the apparent "slip".

[Amrun]

smarg, what about my second post?

[ThAdmiral]

Long post coming up....

Llama first brings it up:

GUYS WE ARE LYNCHING CLAIMED SCUM BUNNY NOW

My PM doesn't explicitly state whether or not there are town aligned players of different nationalities

, either. Moreover, I don't see why other role PMs should be any different since the rules regarding nationality and alignment are in the first post, or so, and they are clearly different concepts - something David doesn't seem to quite grasp, by his use of 'probably'. My feeling then, is that David is bullshitting in grand style.

@Amrun: Sorry I'm not good with history x-x.

My person is not of American or Soviet nationality

, I have no favor to back it up though. The favor I do have, anyone could have in their pm.

Let see.... JVW was replaced by fuzzy... who was replaced by bunny.

So bunny is "other" nationality, whos predicesors role specifically states is not told if they exist. I smell slip

Vote bunnylover

Amrum agrees:

I think that's one of several slips on this page by the jvw/fuzzy/bunny slot.

VOTE: bunnylover

Redcoyote agrees:

Absolutely agree with getting rid of Bunny.

Unvote

;

vote: Bunnylover

The interesting thing is that so far 2 of these are confirmed town, and the other is someone I consider very likely town. We continue...

LMP jumps on:

It's so funny. Everytime I have a thought in this game ThAd has the exact opposite. I swear to god...

Unvote
Vote: Bunnylover

DavidParker jumps on:

I look at these two wagons, and see more pro-town players on the Bunny wagon and more scummy players on the gonnano wagon.

Thus:

Unvote, vote: Bunnylover

LMP spots something odd about dp's vote:

Bunny-wagon prior to following DP posts:
Bunnylover - 4 - LlamaFluff, Amrun, RedCoyote, LynchMePls

I look at these two wagons, and see more pro-town players on the Bunny wagon and more scummy players on the gonnano wagon.

If I had mentioned everytime you pinged my scumdar... Needless to say you are in my top 3-4 atm. And this isn't an OMGUS. Just something I hadn't decided to point out as of yet, because there's scummier people to lynch.

So let me get this straight, you want to join a wagon that has Amrun (someone you've been pushing as scum all day) and me (someone you just said is in your top 3-4) because it has more town reads (althought you have a scum read on half the players) and the other has more scum reads? Yet you've pushed Amrun-scum all game and now you declare I'm in your top 3-4!? THIS DOES NOT COMPUTE!

The amount of mental acrobatics required in order for DP's thoughts to be town are staggering. DP's derailing of the ThAd wagon is completely suspect now.

Unvote
Vote: DP

bvoigt jumps on:

Good catch. This does look like a slip.

UNVOTE: gonnano
VOTE: Bunnylover

Smarg jumps on:

my role pm states that i am a town-aligned player from a non-US, nn-USSR country. thus I can dedduce that ther are other such players in the game because if the mod made it so i was the only one, thta'd be bstard. jvw/ffuzzy/bunny's slip is legit imo.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: bunny

Lowell jumps on:

unvote, vote bunny

gonna must be houdini or something.

nacho jumps on:

Unvote, Vote: Bunnylover

For refusing to give flavor

Furc jumps on:

dislike the roleblocker claim

unvote;
vote: bunnylover

sure, i've seen roleblocker as town, but i've seen it as scum 10x more

IPman jumps on:

Basically, the Che Guevara from the Cuban Missile Crisis would be one of the worst threats to peace imaginable, but in light of his later rift with the Soviets, I have trouble seeing him allied with anyone. The fact that Bunnylover gave his nationality as Cuban instead of Soviet also suggests this. The role sounds like it could be third party more than anything else.

Good point.

Unvote, Vote: Bunnylover

'sides, I would rather lynch a roleblocker than McCarthy, believe it or not, just based on flavor. I *can* see how a town silencer would be useful (being that scum's votes are typically more important because there's less of them), and I can also see how a Town RB is useful, but so much bothers me about the claim: the flavor name, the role itself, the fact that such a famous figure has "only 8 words of flavor"... something's up. Maybe it's even just me being flavor-biased (McCarthy being American and Che being non-American). I don't know if the slip is actually a slip or not, but something is bugging me about Bunny's claim.

Gonnanno jumps on:

"When forces of oppression come to maintain themselves in power against established law, peace is considered already broken."

That means that he considered his rebellions an effort to restore peace.

Also, he considered the United States an exploitative nation, broken beyond repair, that also happened to have nuclear weapons and wanted to attack Cuba. So of course he would want to use the missiles in defense of Cuba.

Look, you don't have to convince me that he's scummy. I was trying to decide which one could possibly be connected to the "threat to the peace" wincon, and it was an easier jump to make for Guevara than McCarthy.

None of it matters anyway, because Bunny is now basically the only viable lynch.
UNVOTE:
VOTE: Bunny

EGL hammers:

unvote
Vote: Bunnylover

Hammer.

I want to make sure we get some kind of flip and info today.

On a town wagon of this size there has to be scum on it. I think the scummiest votes are the ones without any extra information that either simply agree with the flip or don't mention anything at all. These are the votes by LMP, bvoigt, smarg, lowell. Note that bvoigt, smarg and lowell votes came consecutively. They were also the 6th, 7th and 8th votes on (or 5th, 6th and 7th if you include lmp's switch to dp). It is extremely unlikely that a wagon could have got to its 8th/7th vote without scum jumping on, therefore I would say it is extremely likely that there is scum within the bvoigt, smarg and lowell group.

I also included lmp's analysis of dp's vote as it is indeed a seemingly inconsistent thing to say from davidparker.

Other things of note are gonnano's vote when he seemed to be far more supportive of an amrum lynch, and EGL's hammer when he also was far more supportive of an amrum lynch. These, however, don't ping my scumdar as much as a bunny lynch was more or less inevitable at this stage and scum would not feel compelled to jump on if they wanted to fly under the radar.


IN CONCLUSION:
- I think there is a VERY high possibility of at least one scum in the

bvoigt

,

smarg

and

lowell

group.
-

DavidParker

's reasoning for his vote was inconsistent with what he had said previously, and therefore he could be scum.

I'm going to look at bvoigt, smarg and lowell and will probably place my vote on one of them.

[Amrun]

ThAd, any thoughts about how DP's role supposedly confirms yours, somehow?

Still waiting for explanation on DP for that one.

[DavidParker]

Why are you waiting for an explanation? I've clearly stated I have no intention of giving one.