Newbie 1070 - Game Over

[T-Bone]

My role is buttered.

[T-Bone]

Hey since I played 10 marathon games and modded one, am I still a newb???

[T-Bone]

I'm French. Screw you Rain.

[T-Bone]

First, I was trying to come across my last post as a joke.

My thoughts so far. I think, in 2011, Voting for a No Lynch is no longer a scum tell. In all the games I have ever played, only once has I ever seen someone who is scum offer a no lynch vote. Why? Because people are scarred to throw out the "obvious scum-tells" for fear of getting lynched.

I agree with Jack slightly. We have a high percentage of chance of hitting town and going 5 v 2 in Day 2. However, I don't agree with saying "Well this day is stupid, NO LYNCH!" Jack, there's a deadline for a reason. Riding the pine till deadline and creating good discussion is a much better option. If we no lynch at that point, so be it. It's a No lynch well spent.

However, something that I've noticed that is becoming a scum tell to replace the voting no lynch one, is the people who jump on the player for voting a no lynch. Usually the second or third person. That would be Stels or Ellyssa. (Yes I'm aware Rain has a vote on Jack too, but his was pre-no vote. I'm also aware Quaroth has a vote on him too) However in this case I'm gonna Vote: Stels, because of the way he just slipped onto the bandwagon.

Vote: Stels

Separate line for you Mod. Aren't I great?

[T-Bone]

Guess we have our policy lynch...

This post really

really

bothers me.

Because he's....scum??

I'll get to you Day 2 bud. I think Stels should still be our Day 1 lynch.

[T-Bone]

Apart from my secret Day Cop ability, I've said what I needed to say. People keep saying "what do you got T-Bone?" I've said what I got.

Is my vote on Stels circumstantial? Kinda. If anyone actually read my post I debated between voting him and the person who voted behind him (name escapes me). Ultimately I went with Stels. Someone said, "well T-Bone is latching on to one scumtell", but isn't exactly what everyone was doing on Page 2? "Oh Jack voted No lynch, scumtell!" Now I realize since then the focus has shifted away from him, but still.

Unless I start double and triple posting, there's not much I can do to step up activity. I have to wait for the rest of you to post before I post again.

So here's where I'm at. Stels hasn't convinced me to remove my vote from him.I'm not advocating that we end the Day right this very second. I'm saying this is the lynch I believe in at the moment. I won't join a Day 1 bandwagon for the sake of joining a bandwagon.

Obviously I didn't like Muh's "lets policy lynch" idea, so I pointed it out. However, I don't feel it's best to try to accuse multiple players at the same time. Ultimately we can only lynch one person (or none at all) today. I'll be comfortable with a Muh lynch if I decide he suddenly becomes a better choice.

It's interesting to see how people change their playstyle once people start putting pressure on them. I've been reading the posts. I don't have an opinion of Quaroth. Talking in circles doesn't seem all that scummy to me.

And finally Ellyssa since I guess I'm addressing your questions, I don't even recall what barefoot did that warranted him the votes he got.

Just one final thought, I find that scum are more effective when they lead the discussion rather then lurk. Just something to keep in mind. Leading the discussion is just as scummy as lurking.

Aside: In light of new posts...nothing changes. Thought ya'll should know

[T-Bone]

@ Ellyssa, I considered Quaroth the first, since Rain's vote was cast during the RVS and thus could not be considered in my analysis of the voting pattern.

[T-Bone]

Can you explain to me Quaroth how you're contributing? Posting the same wall of information post after post is not "contributing". That is just posting for the sake of posting.

I keep seeing my name getting tossed out as "not contributing." Can someone explain to me how I am "not contributing?" Wait I get it, I'm not quoting people and typing huge walls of meaningless text. Got it. I need to do more of that.

Because I sure as hell am contributing more than you Quaroth. Hell, Spitfavle caught you in a contradiction. All you are doing Quaroth is throwing accusations left and right. That's far from contributing. Dare I say that's more along the lines of activity trolling, so people will say "that guy is so pro-town, look at how much he posts."

Honestly? Some people are looking more and more like they need my vote more than Stels does. Don't worry guys, I'm very generous with my vote. Just look at the love Stels has for me.

[T-Bone]

Debatable, on multiple points. Split didn't catch me in a contradiction.

I don't really have a good feel for you on pro-town or anti-town.

I still maintain a lynch on you is far better than a policy lynch on jack. I haven't waffled on this. That's not saying I think you *should* be lynched. I just think a policy lynch is the worst possible solution today.

As far an contributions go, sure I'm rather vocal about how I feel on people. I can post less if you'd like? If I see something I want to respond too, I respond to it.

At this point I would be quite surprised if split, ellyssa, or Jack turned up scum. Everyone else, not so much. I'm 80% sure that either rain or barefoot is scum. T-bone and muh316 are middle of the road, and wouldn't shock me either way.

Then I'm playing the way I want to play.

I'm not saying post less. I'm not saying "let's lynch this guy because he wants to lynch me".

My problem is, and I don't mean to pick on you, is that I've seen a lot of "T-Bone isn't contributing/T-Bone is lurking" etc. Which I don't get. It looks like to me "Damn, I need to put the heat on someone else. Hey, what about that T-Bone guy?"

It would be one thing if people were lurking. But all of us except the Mod and Barefoot have posted at least once in the last 12 hours. We're all pretty much posting pretty often. I don't get why people are throwing out "hey PLAYER is lurking. Look at him!"

6 pages in, with everyone posting...

NO ONE

is lurking. That's something I think should be made

clear

. People go offline. It happens.

[T-Bone]

Ah a new post. What's that, Quad posting lol?

What do I think Quar? It's not like we have more than two factions. I have a vote, and it's at where it is at for a reason.

[T-Bone]

Jack I have been posting a hell of a lot more than you. I've been playing a hell of a lot more than you, and MOST importantly, I've been contributing to the scum hunting more than you. It's your fault that you're not good enough to "read" me.

I keep seeing people bring up the point which is hilarious, because at this point the only people who have posted more than me are Quaroth, Ellyssa, and maybe Rain but I think I passed him. Like I said in another post of mine, NO ONE is lurking, and claiming that someone is lurking is a lazy way of saying "I'm not good enough to read that player."

So Jack you've admitted that you are not good enough to 'read' barefoot, splitfavle, Stels, and myself, because we've all been posting plenty.

Calling someone a lurker is the lazy way of saying "I'm not good at this". Which is fine, not knowing things is part of the game. But I'm starting to get tired of the same people using that as an excuse to not play the game.

Jack I don't mean to attack you personally, you're just the most recent example of this. I gather to think that despite this being a newbie game, most of us have at least played elsewhere first before coming here, so if anyone really is playing mafia for the first time, my apologies for assuming otherwise.

[T-Bone]

Well guys, here's my post lest I be called a lurker again. Since SOOO MANY PEOPLE posted in the last 24 hours since my previous post.

Come on guys... 3 people have posted a total of 5 posts in the last 36 hours? Are you all who are not Rain/Split suddenly have nothing to say? I understand we all have lives, but 36 hours is a long period of time. No one has ANY more thoughts?

[T-Bone]

@ Elly. No I don't think anyone is actively lurking. I stated my opinion of lurking and calling other people lurkers in post #146

I think now we've gotten what we're going to get out of the day phase. People keep throwing out a suspect list, so lets grab some common ground and get a lynch going.

Unvote

Vote: Muh316

I said I'd be okay with this vote. He and Stels were my picks for votes, at this point, I think Stels has redeemed himself enough for now. At least until the next phase.

[T-Bone]

EBWOP

Dunno why I typed 146. I meant #140.

[T-Bone]

...

[T-Bone]

Yay for posting.

@ Stels, by "redeemed" I mean you hadn't done anything since. That post was like 5 pages ago. You may have been on V/LA, but you still made a few posts.

@ Others Yay for posting! Yes I posted that twice, cause I'm excited.

@ Rain, sorry I don't post lists. I don't believe they help. You may disagree and have X amount of reasons, so if you want to teach everyone else why posting lists is important, but I don't feel em, so I'll rarely post em.

[T-Bone]

OMFGWTFBBQSAUCE JACK BANDWAGONED!

[T-Bone]

Bookmark this page and you won't ever have non-posting issues again.

[Alduskkel]

The tags are fine. You quoted too much!!!!

Vote Count

muh316 (4) - splitfarvle, T-Bone, Ellyssa, Jack Forman
Quaroath (2) - Rain, Stels
Stels (1) - Quaroath

Not Voting (2) - muh316, barefoot-fighter

With 9 alive it is 5 to lynch.

[T-Bone]

I didn't say anything in the last page. He just wants the heat off of him.

[T-Bone]

I don't have feelings for Quaroth, sorry Jack.

[T-Bone]

Because I'm a psychopath and keep all my feelings bottled up inside.

I think it's time for someone to drop the hammer. I think we've milked this Day phase for everything it is worth. Personally it's driving me crazy because I'm accustomed to 4 day deadlines and 20 page days for day phases. We've been at this for over a week. Posting has slowed down considerably. It's time to take the horse out to the back and shoot it.

[T-Bone]

@ Whoever, it's because I've gotten to the point where I'm comfortable to end the day. If the rest of you aren't so be it. Start Unvoting and let the game continue. I'm patient.

[T-Bone]

Yeah I'm hopping on bandwagons. The second vote is totally a bandwagon.

It is your fault if you guys can't get a read off of me. I'm not gonna say if I'm town or scum, because the moment you say you're town, you become a safe lynch at this stage of the game.

I've seen a bit of a theme "so and so wants to end the day because they wanna use their scum powers!" There are 9 players playing. At most, 4 players have night actions, at least, 2 players do.

I'm not here to make your ability to play easier Jack. If you think I'm scum, don't wimp out. Cast your vote. Don't "waste space" as you so eloquently called it by complaining "I'm not good enough at this game to make reads on other players unless they spell it out for me" with your posts. This has got to be the 3rd or 4th time you've complained that someone else isn't playing good enough. Don't blame your problems on other players.

I'm rushing the town? Really? Because we've had 4 posts in the last day. If I'm rushing the town, I'm doing a horrible job at it.

[T-Bone]

Cool guys, start talking before I go on vacation this week.

Mod, updated player list?

[T-Bone]

Huh?

[T-Bone]

Thanks Mod.

I'll be kinda V/LA Tues-Wed-Thurs. Spring break and such. Not sure how much internet time that'll allot me but alas, I am addicted so who knows? Point is, I'll be quiet for a few days, though thanks to the length of the day phase and the slow speed of the game I won't need to be replaced.

What part of "then you become a safe lynch" did you not follow? I realize that there are no 3rd parties. But what if I was a JoaT or something? I don't wanna be considered a safe lynch. (Yes I am well aware there are no JoaTs). And well that was my mistake on how I worded it. I meant to imply claiming vanilla, not just town. But I don't see a point in arguing theory. Doesn't help us scum hunt.

What I find convenient Ellyssa is that you immediately point out "Jack's dead, T-Bone's got the motive." Well duh, isn't exactly what scum would like? Then it becomes a game well that's what they want you to think, because that's what they want you to think, because that's what they want you to think, etc. etc. etc.

Now since Jack was town, he has no knowledge of who everyone else's alignment was. I wouldn't be considering his suspect list as the end all be all here. Goes back to the 'that's what scum want us to think, no they want us to think this" thing.

Now I know I'm not scum, so it wasn't a revenge kill on my part. So if scum wanted us to think "Bone did it! Bone did it!" you've planted those seeds quite nicely Ellyssa.

Anyway not everyone has checked in. I'm not gonna go rattling off that "so-and-so" is scum.

[T-Bone]

Just thought of this. One thing to consider about the night-kill.

We all pretty much wrote Jack off as town. The likelihood of Jack getting lynched Day 2 was low. With Jack alive, that was one less mislynch scum could possibly get Day 2.

It's an interesting proposition, and I think I know where my vote is going today. Just waiting on the last 4 people to check in.

[T-Bone]

Alright going on vacation, so here are my final thoughts. They echo pretty much what I outlined in my last post about some of the things Ellyssa was doing. Pointing out that Jack must have been killed by the person he was accusing. Frankly, that's some heavy seed planting. I don't like it. There is no reason for a member of the town to plant seeds. There's a different between asking a question to provoke discussion, and seed planting. In #227 you said "well you had motive to kill him T-Bone." Now one could argue that you didn't intend to type it like that and try to rub it off as your first time playing.

But every post you have made in this game has been concise and deliberate. I hazard to say you've been too careful to look scummy. So much that you look uber town. And that my friends is a dangerous thing. As a member of the town you should worry about making mistakes or looking scummy. Your goal isn't to survive, your goal is to nail scum. Meanwhile the mafia's goal is to survive.

Even though I didn't say anything, you have been the one person to stick out to me Ellyssa. I didn't say anything till now, because I wanted you to post carefree and see what would happen. Your first post in Day 2 gave me the answers I was looking for.

Vote: Ellyssa

The To Long, Didn't Understand version of this post: I feel she is scummy. Gut feeling and stuff. Bam I voted. Bye.


OOC Note:

As for my V/LA. Going on vacation with my special lady, so computer time will be limited. I'll at least be reading the game to try and stay in the loop. Maybe I'll make an activity post sometime this week. I trust you scummy people won't lynch me in the meantime lol. Cheers my frenemies, see ya'll at the end of the week.

[T-Bone]

I'm back. You guys can breathe again.

[T-Bone]

^^OMGUS!!!!!!!!

...

Ahem anyway.

I

[T-Bone]

Hmmm my reply is gone. That's weird...and sucks. Stupid quick reply box...

Sigh, I'll try again after work I suppose...

[T-Bone]

Christ I have a lot to type...again... But hey since I'm not using the quick reply box, maybe I'll toss in a few quotes since its the "town thing" to do.

Iiiincoming WoT! @T-Bone #242 Don't worry about answering this before you get back from the vacation. Enjoy it first! I mean you no harm, I just want to lynch you! I won't vote you before you get back and have a chance to reply to it at least, so there shouldn't be a quick lynch.

If this becomes relevant, this is my first game of Mafia ever, anywhere, though I have read a fair number (like 10) on Mafiascum. Now to my points.

Nope not relevant. You're not playing like a noob.

It seems to me you're using the Too Townie fallacy on me. I posted what I did as a straightforward analysis of the N1 and D1 flips, as what other new information IS there otherwise? Has anyone else come up with anything else? You have, but that was just about entirely OMGUS on my point because I shed light on you to begin the day, as it was either you or Rain from the connections I pointed out, and I had more of a scummy read on you at that point. And I do call it OMGUS because your second post reply (#232) fairly clearly indicated the upcoming accusation.

Right because you shed light on me with your seed planting, I can't vote for you now whether I intended to all along. For the record I intended to come after you from the get go. The amount of time I waited to do so was insignificant. I wanted to give everyone a chance to check in first.

Frankly, that's some heavy seed planting. I don't like it. There is no reason for a member of the town to plant seeds. There's a different between asking a question to provoke discussion, and seed planting. In #227 you said "well you had motive to kill him T-Bone." Now one could argue that you didn't intend to type it like that and try to rub it off as your first time playing.

I darn well intended to type it like that. I don't see why not. He was at odds with you near the end of the day, you can't deny that, and I'm not sure whether to classify your seemingly overly defensive post as pure OMGUS or a panicked attempt to get me off your wagon. Maybe you don't like it because it hits too close to home? Pointing out a connection I observed is seed-planting, now? You do realise that's how almost every game on the site is played, looking at vote patterns and relationships (or lack of) between players in the game?

You act as if I was the only one at odds with Jack during Day 1. I defended his no lynch. He was brought to L-1 at one point. By this reasoning, just about everyone had motive to kill him. Why didn't you bring up the 4 players that voted him? Rain, Quaroth, Stels, and Barefoot all had a vote on him at one point. Didn't they just have as much motive to kill him as I did?

So if every game is looking at voting patterns and relationships, why did you only single out me and Jack?

(I assume you mean too careful to

not

look scummy, and as a member of the town I

shouldn't

worry about making mistakes, else I'm not quite sure what you mean in the first paragraph of this quote, sorry.)

Yeah you got it. I have typing issues sometimes.

My goals in the game so far have been to point at who I find most scummy. I was wrong in muh flipping scum, as was everyone else on the lynchwagon, but I'm satisfied that the reasons we lynched him were solid at the time. Yes I have been somewhat deliberate, I feel that way lends itself to less misinterpretation. I've tried to explain the reason everytime I swap or do not swap votes, for one, so others could decide if I were right and come on board too, or as Stels did recently, overturn/reopen my thoughts on barefoot. Do you prefer a haphazard method with mostly short posts and dubious voting reasons like you've done so far (I'll come back to this) instead? And we shouldn't worry about being scummy? Why not? That causes mislynches, my friend! How did that work out for muh and his unafraid townie vote on barefoot? Earned him the hammer vote from Rain.

Eventhough I was on the muh lynch, I'm not satisfied with the results since he flipped town. I don't see why you should be satisfied with a mislynch. I'm more concerned with what went wrong so we don't mislynch again.

Lessee. My starting post on D2 was made about 12 hours after day broke. Let's say I didn't make the post, or made some irreverent, cute comment like you did. And let's say from that you didn't attack me back. Let's see what OTHER content there has been up to this point. We're like 65-70 hours into Day 2 now depending on when I finish this post. So nearly the 3 day prod thing.
- You: Two fluff posts early, and one IIOA post later on (about Jack being one less mislynch cause he was totally townie).

Other than this post you are currently reading, I generally don't make large posts. So I posted two "fluff" posts at the beginning of the day. And? I was harming what exactly? Was I derailing all the early Day 2 discussion?

Really? And you're voting me for being concise (and deliberate). Right. You yourself talked about the slow speed of the game in #230 . Not to mention that's the exact opposite of a typical scum playstyle of coasting under the radar. I agree with Jack and Stels, you've been fluffing your post count with inane one-liners and sarcastic comments and "hurry hurry so I can get to night" posts, except when you've been attacked like now. Whereas refusing to do townie things like post your list of reads when asked - you want to know why that isn't townie?
- If you are town, and had gotten NKed, we'd have gotten a lot less info from your death. Look at this discussion that's started from Jack's list.
- There's an opinion that says that helps scum figure out who's townie and who isn't and thus who to target. That's a fallacy in small, open, clearly-factioned games, they're not complex enough for such a thing.
-

It lets you waffle about and coast through D1, and then fall on whatever side of the fence you choose that is more convenient for you, in subsequent days, when it matters.

That's not the only reason I'm voting you. I never once claimed I had a surefire 1000% correct reason, or even a good one. I just have a reason to vote you. It's only ONE vote. It's not set in stone.

- Well I wasn't expecting to get nightkilled so I'm okay anyway.
- There's an opinion sure. I don't share it.
- Show me an example of me fence sitting. Is my vote on you 'fence-sitting?'

About my point about your dubious reads point earlier. You have two votes so far this game.
- One was on Stels for being second to vote (discounting Rain's RVS vote) on Jack. Flimsy reason as hell.
- You then follow it up with a vote on muh, though coincidentally you are the second vote on this townie's wagon this time. So it's not okay when others do it for whatever legit reason they have, but then I get OMGUSed when I attack you partly for being on this wagon, and pooling that with other circumstantial evidence to make my case?

- Never claimed it was a good reason. What may not be a good enough reason for you to vote was good enough for me. It's subjective.

And yes, it's OMGUS (at least the way I see it currently, lacking supposed evidence from other days, even though I haven't voted you yet. Reason I haven't is we're still waiting for barefoot's replacement to make a post. And you're away now.

Here's a question for you then. I'd like to hear why your vote was

not

OMGUS.

Because it isn't? As we see a post later, you're voting me now. Tell me why YOUR vote wasn't OMGUS?

Lastly, a good chunk of my opening D2 post, about your #211 quote, was directed to the last question thrown your way just before D1 ended, just to make sure it didn't get swept under the carpet, since it did not get answered then. Your logic works in more complex setups but totally breaks apart in this newbie game's open one, which was why you were called on it by more than one player. Plus no one HAD brought up claiming up till that point.

Wait, why is my philosophy on how to play important to the game in any shape or form? I'm not the IC player. I don't understand how it's relevant or why it's a part of your reasoning for voting.

Three people who I won't allow to be lynched today are Elyssa, Stels, and Quaorath. They are my three strongest town reads, and I'm fairly sure they are town. I don't approve of T-Bone's case on Elyssa, mainly because he's saying Elyssa framed him with the nightkilll and is too townie to be scum. From personal experience, I can mention that scum rarely are the first to point on their own framejobs; saying something like that draws attention, and scum would rather watch two townies battle it out than have to mislynch that townie themselves. I would like T-Bone to explain his other suspects, though. I feel this response might be tainted a little bit by OMGUS, so it'll be beneficial to see his cases on everyone else.

My other suspects? As in a list? I'm not going through this again. Clearly Ellyssa is my suspect, because that is where my vote is. Why would I have multiple suspects? There are only two scum in this game, and we can only lynch one at a time. Nothing else has happened to warrant me to change my vote. When and if that point happens, you'll know. IF I had a case against someone else, wouldn't I have made it by now and voted them instead?

I also like that you've already decided that 3 people aren't getting lynched. What if one of those people turn out to be scum? That's a pretty bold statement to make. Shouldn't you be open to all possibilities? You've already made it clear that you're gonna tunnel on Rain, Split, and myself. Thats some pretty narrow minded thinking.

Even though Ellyssa already addressed this, I want to emphasize that T-Bone seems to be accusing her of things that he's doing as well minus the uber-town part. Further, many of his posts on D1 are either contentless defenses about his posting frequency and posting style, tips about playing the game, or votes that go nowhere because there's no followup pressure.

Fair enough.

But here has been the post I have been waiting for.... Just one thing. If you intended to vote for me, why did it take you three posts of building a case on me to do so? We're you hoping that other people would say "yeah that T-Bone fellow might be worth lynching" before you cast your vote? Did you see that Nacho might be persuaded to vote me, so you felt more comfortable casting your vote? Yes I did wait to cast my vote to, but that's slightly different. Not everyone had checked in, and no one had even considered a vote on you until I did.

@Split and @Quaroath and lists: Yeah, I did half expect to not survive the night, for about the same reasons you all mention. That partly contributed to why I immediately brought the NK up to start D2. It links to the pro-list argument I made in that post to T-Bone - I disagree lists are bad in small/non-complex games, because I'd think that the Mafia would be able to pick out who the townies considered most townie anyway, since people are always declaring who they feel are most townie or obvtown. I got onto Quaroath's case a little bit for that in D1 when he singled me out in particular as obvtown in D1, but he wasn't the only one who did.

I feel lists are good because they make it so that people have to list their suspects too - Like, it draws negative attention to everyone in turn, from the players they suspect, so there's no hiding and coasting along by simply neutral-reading everyone, with no chance of offending anyone. It seems in many other games, everyone's been asked to put forth their town/scum lists and from that scum is caught when their play later on is noticed to be inconsistent with their reads. Though of course opinions change over time, too. But the earlier those lists go down, the harder for scum to hide and the more explanations they must make to get onto a lynchwagon, and easier for people to find contradictions on who others support vs their actual actions.

Back to the list thing again. Fine, you like lists and find them productive. More power to you. Why is that one of your selling points for your case against me?

Plus Rain started the lists to jumpstart discussion to try to boost the level of activity, which T-Bone had been understandably complaining about too (lack of activity) at the time, but then went 180 degrees and flatly refused to participate in it. It's like he first says he likes short, quick games (implying lots of quick activity flow), but then doesn't want to post actual content that may out himself in the future. But of course everyone else should post more, so he can play judge and jury.

Oh you mean that time where NO ONE HAD POSTED CAUSE THE DAY JUST STARTED?? How horrible of me to mention I'm going on vacation and I want to play a bit before that happens.

I am satisfied with Nacho's first post for now. It's obvious he did do a read, but did not fall into an interesting scumtell trap that I would have voted him for. (I prefer not to mention what it is, till after the game if desired or it's triggered, since it may still come up in the next couple posts -- no pressure ). Now that both him and T-Bone are around and have posted (briefly, at least) and T-Bone is in no danger of being lynched yet, I can put my money where my fingers are:
VOTE: T-Bone.

Wait, without making a massive post, what is your case on me? Because here is what I got, and you can let me know what I missed

- I don't like lists
- I made some weird and badly worded comment about mafia philosophy that not everyone liked
- Because I'm suspicious of you
- Because I think you were seed-planting and breadcrumbing my lynch, and you contend that you weren't
- Because I "OMGUSed" you, since you were breadcrumbing my lynch even though that's a bad reason for me to vote you
- Because I make one or two line posts commenting on a single thing?
- Because I don't post massively huge posts like this?

I really don't understand what I did wrong to warrant the vote.

I'm gonna lay it out simple for anyone who asks "why are you voting her T-Bone lol?". Yes I found Ellyssa's posts in Day 1 suspect. No that's not my end all be all reason for voting. It's just something I put out there.

What set me off was the seed-planting she did. "lol T-Bone you had motive to kill Jack". Yeah me and everyone else currently playing. So there that's my reason for the vote. I feel fairly good about it. And then of course breadcrumbing that she was gonna vote me, but denying she was doing so, only to reveal that my vote was an OMGUS of her not-actually-breadcrumbing, only to have something in her satisfied enough to finally cast a vote. Honestly? I'm just plain confused by all this.

Christ I'm not doing one of these again for along time. Too long of a post for my liking. I was tempted to pull a Quaroth and triple post, but I thought better of it.

NEW POSTS WHILE I WAS TYPING!

@Split - I don't think we need to get hung up on what everyone feels about mafia philosophy. Jack had a "scummy" and "incorrect" philosophy and he flipped town.

Who do I think is scum? Why our handy-dandy Mod has posted a vote count recently and its got my vote. I have another idea floating in my head, but for now its not relevant enough to what I'm doing.

[T-Bone]

If no one reads that, I won't be offended. Honest.

[T-Bone]

*grabs popcorn*

[T-Bone]

I'm not tunneling. I am 100% willing to lynch whoever I think is scum. Right now that happens to be Ellyssa. But, you see, I have this handy ability to move my vote around. It's generally called 'unvoting'.

But, if you must know I am considering the Rain vote myself. But for now, I don't need to move my vote from where it is.

Since Ellyssa will use this short post as another part of her evidence, I'll get to your massive post(s) when I have more time then just a few minutes to glaze over the thread.

[T-Bone]

Alright, Ellyssa you officially post too much for me to keep up with. You can rebuttal all you want. I made a read on you, and you don't like it, fine. Who's to say I'm not correct? I still don't get why I'm scum, other than my naturally scummy play style.

As for my suspicion of Rain, it's just something I'm keeping in the back of my mind. I echo the sentiments that have been said about him thus far. Fair points have been made about him. I don't need to repeat them.

Let's see who else has addressed me. Give Ellyssa a break because going back and forth with her shall get us no where.

@Stels. If I haven't done anything, then you've certainly done less. Tell me oh great one, what have you done? Gone on vacation? Check. Placed a couple of votes while echoing what other people are saying? Check. Doing everything but scum hunting? Check.

Honestly, I

think he's just begging to be lynched with his stuck-up attitude.

He hasn't done anything this entire game, except chase after you, which ATM is quite stupid seeing as how

you're such a pro-town force

. The fact that he always wanted to vote you from the start and "the perfect time" to wait and vote for you doesn't stick well with me. It's like saying "Hey! I eat babies even though I am a vegetarian."

I bolded two states here. The first one, nice way to brush off an excuse to add your vote to my looming bandwagon. I imagine you will vote me, and when I come back town you'll use the excuse "Well he's posting like an asshole anyway". Great way to scumhunt right there buddy.

I bolded the second part, not too attack you Ellyssa but to muse about this bold statement. Ellyssa is a pro-town force? Because she posts massive posts and breaks down everything everyone says word by word? How does that make her town. Couldn't scum just as easily do the same thing? What you're basically admitting is that Ellyssa is in control of the town. Giving one player 'control' is pretty dangerous. 'Control' is exactly what scum want. No, I'm not saying that she's scum because she's in control.

@Rain - Wow. You just did the same thing Stels did, two posts later. "Oh I'll vote T-Bone if the bandwagon forms." Nice way to scum hunt brother. My reasons for Ellyssa don't make sense to you, and that's fine. But here you use that as a pre-excuse to eventually hop on my bandwagon.

@Split - Actually I'm much more okay with your vote then Stels and Rain's prevote. Unlike them, you're taking responsibility for your vote. When I flip town, it's gonna make everyone who lynched me look bad. But, as a member of the town you shouldn't worry about that. I like it. Not so much the vote on me, but actually having the conviction to do so.

@Nacho - I guess the same holds true that I said last time. The difference between what I'm doing and what you're doing, is that I'm willing to lynch whoever I think is most scum. Right now Ellyssa is it. Day 2 is young, that could very easily change. What I still have a problem with is that your 1st post in the game you've already decided "I'm gonna vote T-Bone or Rain, depending on who's bandwagon starts rolling." I don't get how that's pro-town play.

Now I'm going to do something shocking and change my tune a little bit. I am much happier with your rebuttals than your original post. Do I think you were seedplanting? 100%. Do I think you were breadcrumbing a vote on me? 100%. But like Split you are taken responsibility for your vote, and part of me doesn't see scum doing that. After these last few posts by Stels, Nacho, and Rain, you're looking like a less desirable lynch.

@ Everyone. That's about as good of a list from me as you're gonna get. Am I finally "doing it right?"

[T-Bone]

EBWOP

@Quaroath/Stels/Rain What is your read on T-Bone? Do you think he's top two scum from my arguments? I don't think you three have said anything about him or this little war in Day 2 yet. He's obviously scummy to me and I'd like to know if I can get the support for a lynch or if you all are set on killing Rain or barefoot (though Stels is voting barefoot now for a comment he made to T-Bone, he didn't actually address T-Bone or my points againts each other).

Sorry gotta pull a Quaroth here and double post. This last quote bothers me slightly. It reads to me "Hey guys how willing are you to support my lynch on Bone?"

If they had opinions, couldn't they express them on their own? Why do you have to solicit a response? I don't see any other player doing this with as much frequency and blatantly as you are. Why do you have to ask if others are willing to support my lynch? What if they all came back and said, "No we want to lynch Nacho!" Would that give you a pretext to go... "Alright guys, I'll vote Nacho too"

P.S. As an aside. Goddammit guys stop making me quote so much!

[T-Bone]

Hold it, hold it Rain.

So you're saying because I think Ellyssa is scum, that makes me scum? In what universe does that logic work? Looking pro-town and being town are two mutually exclusive things. Unless you know for sure she's town because you're scum that is, and are buddying up to her.

As for her partner, it's a hard choice since all of you have your heads firmly placed...you know the rest.

[T-Bone]

@Rain. Whoa whoa. That's a mighty fine fishing pole you're considering whipping out. There's no reason for me to consider a Cop in this equation, because there's no reason for a Cop to out themselves to protect a townie.

@ Quaroth - I'm sorry. CONFIRMED TOWNIE? The only people who 100% know who is town, is the mafia. So, was that a Freudian slip? Gonna kill Ellyssa tonight so that she flips town, so you can come back Day 3 and say "see I knew Ellyssa was town!"

Unvote

I think Ellyssa with so many people "knowing" that you are 100% town, that some of them are scum buddying up to you so that they can look more town. The thing is people keep making statements that they know you are 100% town, and the only people who know that for sure are the mafia. So here's the deal. Why you claimed that putting pressure on you was pointless, I got a lot of people to reveal some interesting things. So why I don't know for sure if you are town or not, I'm feeling more comfortable with lynching someone "confirming" you as town, then you.

See what a little discussion gets us guys? People like Quaroth "confirming" other players based on no actual facts. Quaroth, that's not called "confirming" that's called buddying. Same thing for you Rain, you don't know that Ellyssa is town, unless YOU are scum. However, other than that comment I like the rest of Quaroth's points, so maybe he made a legit town mistake. I don't know.

Side Note: I apologize for the everyone having their heads up Ellyssa's butt comment, I think that was a little too out of line to get the point across.

[T-Bone]

2 points. One, Jack wasn't confirmed ON Day 1. Two, I thought you were referring to Ellyssa being confirmed town, not Jack.

@ Split - So I didn't attack Ellyssa in that one post. See most posts before that. Do you want to be attacked? Why do you care if I attacked you or not? Had I attacked you, you would have posted something along the lines "T-Bone is only attacking me because I voted him" and DON'T pretend for one second if I nitpicked at something you did you wouldn't pull something like that out. As it turned out, I didn't see anything worth attacking. Your vote on me has NOTHING to do with my scum hunting. It's not my fault you're voting incorrectly.

Truth be told, if/when I get lynched, it'll tell a lot about the people voting me, and the town might have a chance come LyLo Day 3. Those who were giving excuses to justify when they jump on by bandwagon later. If those people making excuses to vote me later really think I'm scum, why aren't they voting me now? Why haven't I been lynched? Because they realize I'll flip town and they'll be in hot water come Day 3?

[T-Bone]

EBWOP

Oh I see what you mean Split. I was not doing what I accused Quaroth of doing. I never said "Split IS town". I wasn't inferring that I know that you are a member of the town, I don't know that. I was inferring that IF you are town, then you have nothing to lose by putting yourself out there.

Gosh I'm pulling Quaroth's left and right now

[T-Bone]

OMG YOUR RIGHT! I LACK THE ABILITY TO CHANGE MY MIND! MUST VOTE ELLYSSA AGAIN!!

...

Wow, your astute accusations are amazing Macho.

@ Rain - Meta? Alright. Here's a "meta". I play scummy whether I'm scum or not. So

[T-Bone]

I missed you guys.

Guess the only problem I have with the most recent posts is Rain. At least make a case on Stels. Geez.

[T-Bone]

What is the case on Stels exactly?

@ Split, the simple answer is I haven't decided yet.

[T-Bone]

Oh whoops my bad. No one had any new thoughts and neither do I, so I didn't post.

[T-Bone]

Well I'm torn between Rain or Stels, so that kinda blows a few theories about a me and Rain/Stels pairing huh? So who's my scum partner then if it isn't one of them? Unless...I don't have one.

I'll drop my vote before the deadline. I'm in a grey area in terms of who is playing more like scum.

This doesn't mean I think the rest of you are town, that's far from the case. File you guys under, a little less likely to be scum.

[T-Bone]

WTF DOES ISO MEAN???

No one will answer in my other game either.

Yep you caught me, I contradicted myself it looks like. Whoops.

[T-Bone]

Oh that's cool.

[T-Bone]

Honestly I made a mistake. I was reading how I'm scum with either Rain and Stels, but I'm willing to lynch them just the same as everyone else. That's where my thought process was.

[T-Bone]

Oh I like this one. I was waiting for you Stels. "Oh he's being a pain in the ass VOTE!" You've been complaining about my play for a couple of posts. I was waiting for you or Rain to try and justify your pre-vote. Yes I knew you were going to eventually vote me, and yess I'm 100% going to vote you for it. You're making excuses to lynch me, your case is as weak as anyone else's, you were just waiting to slip onto the wagon. Don't try to spin it any other way, you made it clear you were going to jump on my bandwagon as soon as it was convenient for you.

You guys know what you need to do on LyLo tomorrow. Or rather the town among you need to know what to do tomorrow.

Vote: Stels

Because OMGUS is an obvious scumtell. You or me buddy, we're both at L-1.

[T-Bone]

Right....that's why I pointed it out a week ago.

It's up to Nacho at this point methinks. If I get lynched, it'll only strengthen the town cause when I flip town since everyone has been against me at some point this day phase, it'll be easier for the real members of the town to pick the scum off.

Though I walk through the shadow of the valley of death or something like that. I don't know where I was going with that. Oh well, already typed it too late now.

[T-Bone]

Stels, you've been called out by thee expert breadcrumber here.

[T-Bone]

I wouldn't mind a Rain lynch. I'd like to see a Stels lynch before him (not withstanding me, I don't mind my own lynch either) because I think we learn more from a Stels lynch at this point. We learn about Rain (because I think either Rain or Stels), and depending on the flip we learn about the people on my bandwagon (or his).

I think we learn less about my lynch because everyone has attacked me at some point. Plenty of people have voiced that they think Stels is town, but not one single person has voiced that they think I am town. Therefore when I flip town, what are you guys doing to do?

[T-Bone]

@ Everyone. Nacho recently posted in another game we're both in that he'd be out till Saturday. I don't know whether that will be before or after that deadline so someone might have to flip. However this is not an ideal situation, I think it will be much better for us Day 3 if the battle lines stay drawn.

I'm not self-hammering by the way.

[T-Bone]

If you want to claim it don't matter to me. I'm vanilla. But scum could say that too, so unless you're gonna claim something other than vanilla, claiming in a newbie game isn't much of a point. Scum can claim vanilla too.

[T-Bone]

No. The idea of breadcrumbing is to mention something in passing from time to time to get people to think about it. And then it's something strong you can fall back on later. So you could go "see? I intended to to do all along."

For example. Say I wanted to claim something like lie detector. I might say things like "we'll know if you're lying or not soon enough." Or I might say things to hint that I could be the lie detector.

That's not to say breadcrumbing couldn't be done in other ways, that's just the easiest example I can think of.

[T-Bone]

Can't afford the mislynch tomorrow guys, good luck.

Personally I hope I get vindicated and Ellyssa turns out scum. Then you'd all look like fools.

Bye guys.

[T-Bone]

I **** KNEW IT!!!

Let that be a lesson to everyone. Wall posting does not equal town. Though kudos to Ellyssa as she was able to cover her mistakes enough to fool everyone else.

I'll give a more constructive analysis later. Just wanted to come and say I told you so.

Love you guys.

[T-Bone]

Can I coerce anyone to replace into a game for me?

Anyway. Yes Ellyssa you did indeed fall into the Too Townie thing. You were trying too hard I think. As town you obviously have little to lose with your death, that you can be aggressive and stuff. I find players that come across as scummy are town who realize that they have a job to accomplish. What stood out to me is your concern about making sure everything you said was consistent. To me, your posting looked a little OCD.

Though you did play great. You pretty much controlled the other players so that when I stood against you Day 2, and Split Day 3 it was too little too late as you had everyone under your townie spell. As scum it is important to control what the town thinks and does, which is what you did all game. MVP performance.

[T-Bone]

You missed a couple of players