Cold War Mafia - GAME OVER!!

[Amrun]

Yes, I know. That's what makes me not believe you. I don't see anyway it could hurt you or him now that you have nameclaimed and he has fullclaimed.

[smargaret]

I'm gonna lean town on Amrun. I mean a town roleblocker wouldn't really roleblock a "silencer". I just don't think it's likely. Now if he's scum he shouldn't have been roleblocked at all. The only thing that makes some sense is a different scum group to Amrun's roleblocking him.

Basically I see one of two things happening:
Town Amrun got roleblocked by scum to set him up.
ScumA Amrun got roleblocked by ScumB to set him up.

First seems slightly more probable.

You're missing an option: Amrun is scum and lying about her power.

[Amrun]

If I was lying about my powers, I would have picked a less scummy power than silencing. Ugh.

[smargaret]

Sevei:

On my reread, the first thing to set me off about Sevei was her very first post. She tells everyone to forget about jam, which suggests that she was worried about how scummy jam looked. This comes in the very beginning of her post, which suggests that she looked at her predecessor before anything else. In other words, she's commited the AmishTell (explained here.

Sevei was scum in this game.

In Amrun's catch up post, the first thing she does is to make excuses for how scummy PI seemed. While Amrun was one of the leading wagons, she was nowhere near actually getting lynched (she had 6/13 votes on her at the time).

[Amrun]

Whatever. I was concerned with how extremely little sense PI's play made, yes. I attempted to offer what explanation about it that I could, since I alone knew her role.

I also gave an extensive read list. I don't see what I did as scummy at all. I think ignoring PI's baffling play would have been much stranger.

[bvoigt]

We've already talked about the fact that the claim is not a scumtell. Specifically, what are those other reasons for voting Amrun?

It is a scumtell, though. A weakened scumtell after the Che flip, admittedly, but still a scumtell.

Given the way the Cold War panned out, it's much more likely for us to be finding scummy-sounding communist roles that end up being townie than it is for us to be finding scummy-sounding capitalist roles that end up being townie. And if McCarthy isn't scum, then there's probably not an American scumteam. However, as it stands there seems to be a definite possibility that there

is

an American scumteam, which in turn means that there is an equal possibility that McCarthy is scum.

OK, fine. Even though we already had one scummy-sounding name flip town, I'll just concede this point and let everyone else take note that most of your scumhunting is based on flavor rather than actual play.

Poison Ivy's play is a large part of why I don't like the slot; Amrun's claim is still a scumtell, and other than that Amrun's defenses of herself have been coming off as a little too vigorous to me overall, like someone who is more worried about staying alive than getting information for the town.

The second point seems pretty hypocritical after you asked numerous times for a summary of the points against you.

[Sotty7]

Day 2, vote count 3

DavidParker - 1 -

LynchMePls

Furcolow - 6 -

Scott Brosius, DavidParker, XScorpion, InflatablePie, Beasts of the Sea, Sathoris

gonnano - 3 -

bvoigt, Amrun, smargaret

Amrun -2 -

gonnano, EGL

Not voting - 8 -

mothrax, ThAdmiral, Artem, Lowell, Nachomamma8, Stephoscope, Feysal, Furcolow,

With

20

alive, it takes

11

to lynch.

Deadline for the end of day two is Tuesday 23rd March @11am CST

Prod check tomorrow.

[XScorpion]

If I was lying about my powers, I would have picked a less scummy power than silencing. Ugh.

Stop polluting the game with your WIFOM trash.

[ThAdmiral]

ThAd, any thoughts about how DP's role supposedly confirms yours, somehow?

I have no idea.

[Scott Brosius]

I'm gonna lean town on Amrun. I mean a town roleblocker wouldn't really roleblock a "silencer". I just don't think it's likely. Now if he's scum he shouldn't have been roleblocked at all. The only thing that makes some sense is a different scum group to Amrun's roleblocking him.

Basically I see one of two things happening:
Town Amrun got roleblocked by scum to set him up.
ScumA Amrun got roleblocked by ScumB to set him up.

First seems slightly more probable.

You're missing an option: Amrun is scum and lying about her power.

Even if Amrun is lying (about having this power) which seems unlikely, we will be able to confirm that tomorrow or the next day in the VC. Amrun should not be the lynch today.

[gonnano]

I disagree completely. I didn't want to give scum ideas and that's why I didn't come out and state explicitly. No one seemed to want to go along with my plan.

It doesn't matter if you "give scum ideas". The point of announcing your target is to help clear your name, and some limited information is just a bonus. And I didn't see too many people against your plan, either. If you really thought it was good, why didn't you bring it up again?

Your Che argument is still terrible.

I don't want to get in another back-and-forth over flavor where we both say the same thing ten times, but I do want to say that I've given reasons why my statement is at least plausible, while you have yet to point out the flaws that you say you see in it.

I still think amrum shouldn't claim her target before night, especially now that I think amrum isn't scum.

Why do you still think that announcing the target is a bad idea? Even if Amrun is blocked, the town doesn't lose much (chances are she won't be targeting scum, especially if she's scum herself), and it could potentially give the town some information.

OK, fine. Even though we already had one scummy-sounding name flip town, I'll just concede this point and let everyone else take note that most of your scumhunting is based on flavor rather than actual play.

So are you going to say that every scummy name from now on is guaranteed town? Even disregarding flavor entirely, Amrun's slot is still one of the scummiest in the game.

The second point seems pretty hypocritical after you asked numerous times for a summary of the points against you.

It's fine for Amrun to defend herself and it's fine for me to defend myself. Sometimes the only way to do that is to get people to make an actual case. However, Amrun's responses have seemed to me like they were not geared towards processing information in a logical manner, but rather towards shifting the blame as quickly as possible. I don't believe that I've been guilty of this anywhere close to the extent that Amrun has, and therefore I don't consider my statement hypocritical.

Even if Amrun is lying (about having this power) which seems unlikely, we will be able to confirm that tomorrow or the next day in the VC. Amrun should not be the lynch today.

That's a decent point... I'm still concerned that everyone is going to forget how scummy the Amrun/PI slot is, though. And if we decide publicly that the only reason we're keeping Amrun around is to figure out if she's lying or being RB'd, it defeats the purpose.

------------------------------------------------------

I was looking back over D2 and thought this was interesting

And I don't know if I was roleblocked, gonnano. I figured I probably would be, to be perfectly honest. Your vote is probably still good.

This comes IMMEDIATELY after I vote. Before the next vote count even shows up, Amrun is scrambling to say that she was probably roleblocked. Sounds like someone knew for sure that my vote was going to be showing up on that vote count.

[bvoigt]

OK, fine. Even though we already had one scummy-sounding name flip town, I'll just concede this point and let everyone else take note that most of your scumhunting is based on flavor rather than actual play.

So are you going to say that every scummy name from now on is guaranteed town? Even disregarding flavor entirely, Amrun's slot is still one of the scummiest in the game.

When did I ever say that every scummy name is guaranteed town? I do think that some scummy names will be town, based on the flips so far. But there's a big difference between what you're implying I said and what I actually said. Scumhunting based on flavor is not a good strategy for this game.

[ThAdmiral]

I still think amrum shouldn't claim her target before night, especially now that I think amrum isn't scum.

Why do you still think that announcing the target is a bad idea? Even if Amrun is blocked, the town doesn't lose much (chances are she won't be targeting scum, especially if she's scum herself), and it could potentially give the town some information.

Because I believe amrum is town, and that if the mafia want to tie up the roleblocker targeting her each night that's fine by me.

[gonnano]

bvoigt: I didn't mean to imply that you had actually said that. I was trying to illustrate the fact that scummy names are still scummy, and even if not all of them are actually scum there's a good chance that most of them will be. What's the point of having a theme if there's no correlation between flavor and role? I agree that flavor isn't enough by itself, but I also think that if you take out flavor entirely Amrun's slot is a strong contender for the scummiest player, and with the scummy flavor and role it just makes sense to lynch her.

Thad: That makes sense, but don't you think it might be worth trading one night's worth of RB-tying-up for a chance at substantiating Amrun's claim to be a silencer? Even if you have a town read on her it could be useful to see.

[bvoigt]

bvoigt: I didn't mean to imply that you had actually said that. I was trying to illustrate the fact that scummy names are still scummy, and even if not all of them are actually scum there's a good chance that most of them will be. What's the point of having a theme if there's no correlation between flavor and role? I agree that flavor isn't enough by itself, but I also think that if you take out flavor entirely Amrun's slot is a strong contender for the scummiest player, and with the scummy flavor and role it just makes sense to lynch her.

Eh, I just think that flavor

was

your main argument for most of Day 1.

[Amrun]

I did actually refute your argument extensively, yesterday, gonnano. I don't feel the need to repeat myself, especially since my side was validated by Bunny flipping town.

[Beasts of the Sea]

@BoS: Where did my post imply that at all? Also, how would you even infer that? Llama was my biggest supporter. If I was on a scum team, how do you imagine we would come to the conclusion to kill him?

Furcolow actually DID say he was a veteran, by the way.

My apologies. I deleted the wrong part of the quote. It should have been this:

What does "removed from the bunker" mean?

Anyways. Fucolow must have spelled it differently the first time around because I used the search for "veteran" and didn't find it.

I disagree. Llama dropped hints that he had a Vig shot. If you were a Vig and had a feeling that somebody was dropping breadcrumbs for a later fakeclaim of your role, wouldn't you shoot them?

Not if I was an odd-night vig. Odds are there is probably an even-night vig as well. Dropping vig tells isn't really a good reason (as the sole reason) to shoot someone as vig when you are alternating nights.

I'm soviet, basically, from Azerbaijan or whatever. My guy was friends with the Democracy in Russia, so he is on the good side, if one so exists.

Neutral role, then? Are you a survivor?

Regardless of Amrun being RBed or not, the role ability is inherently not a town ability. She is still scum.

So Fucolow is the neutral survivor or something along those lines. He needs to die sometime but I am willing to let him slide another day.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Amrun

[Amrun]

And yet the Che Guevara Roleblocker was town.

Flavor arguments are bad at this point. If you're going to vote for, build a case based on my gameplay.

[Beasts of the Sea]

And yet the Che Guevara Roleblocker was town.

Flavor arguments are bad at this point. If you're going to vote for, build a case based on my gameplay.

I'm not arguing flavor. I'm stating the fact that vote removers are scum roles period. It has nothing to do with your name or anything flavor oriented. Town roleblockers are not common but not unheard of either.

[Amrun]

Town silencers are also not unheard of.

I understand what you are saying, though, but my role is what it is. You'll be shocked later, I suppose.

[InflatablePie]

If I was lying about my powers, I would have picked a less scummy power than silencing. Ugh.

Stop polluting the game with your WIFOM trash.

Occam's Razor.

[ThAdmiral]

Thad: That makes sense, but don't you think it might be worth trading one night's worth of RB-tying-up for a chance at substantiating Amrun's claim to be a silencer? Even if you have a town read on her it could be useful to see.

I feel that eventually one of three things will happen:
1) mafia will decide not to block her on their own terms
2) the mafia roleblocker will be lynched/killed
3) the mafia will kill amrum

Basically I am happy to wait and let everything come out in the wash.

If I was lying about my powers, I would have picked a less scummy power than silencing. Ugh.

Stop polluting the game with your WIFOM trash.

Occam's Razor.

This.

[InflatablePie]

@Mod (and players): I will be semi-V/LA from Friday morning until Sunday night (EST) due to working three back-to-back double shifts. I'll try to post, but I can't guarantee I'll have time.

[DavidParker]

InflatablePie wins the thread.

Also, we can give it another day at least to test amrun's power.

[Amrun]

I WILL announce my target this time, now that all of that mess is out in the open. If gonnano lives today, it will probably be him again.