A Storm of Swords - Lay your swords down!

[Magua]

@Magua: What's the case on Twilight?

My case is laid out here. I'll quote it for your ease. "You" refers to "Twilight Sparkle".

I am finding you null-to-scummy at this point. Nothing to do with the governor -- I believe other people can legitimately disagree with me. The thing with you all is, you have posts, and the posts have content, but there's a complete lack of any of you pushing a lynch or trying to do something. You vote Shadow, but don't push; you vote ASoIaF, but don't push. This is doubly strange because not only are you not pushing on the ASoIaF/Thor lynch, it's obvious the lynch isn't going anywhere. xvart, diddin, Raivann, Locke Lamora -- you don't comment on *any* of these lynches, and you're not really trying to get *any* other lynches going.

Since I posted that, Twilight raised hasdgfas (after waffling on whether even having a governor was good for the town) and did their "ISO head to head", which has to be the most contentless ISOs I've ever read. A lot of IIoA (he did this, he did that). A *lot* of waffling (he did this, but I can see why he'd do that because of X). It doesn't even end up in a vote until *after* zoraster's claimed anyways -- so with all that ISO reading, TS still formed no opinion until the wagon was on zoraster anyways. Then they hop on.

In fact, the problem can be summed up as so: Twilight Sparkle is hitogoroshi, Mina, and Sotty7, three good players. It is D2, after a thousand posts and two scum flips. Tell me who they think the scum are.

Tell you what, let me walk you through the sarcasm - I can occasionally be a little too clever for my own good.

You need to watch your sarcasm around me. Magua does not have a sense of humor he is aware of.

@Feysal, Ghostlin, Bunnylover:

Do you think diddin was bussing Raivann through most of D1?

@Thor665:

You say (in 1006) that you want to lynch Raivann for the flip information. I'm curious what flip information you think you would get.

[hasdgfas]

@Feysal, Ghostlin, Bunnylover:

Do you think diddin was bussing Raivann through most of D1?

*raises hand*

[Benmage]

@Feysal, Ghostlin, Bunnylover:

Do you think diddin was bussing Raivann through most of D1?

*raises hand*

Yet you're voting BL.....which btw is not an acceptable lynch for today. Adjust accordingly.

[hasdgfas]

@Feysal, Ghostlin, Bunnylover

[/quote]

[Bunnylover]

@Magua: No. I think Diddin was just trying to join whatever wagon was available at that time. As Benmage pointed out, Diddin just didn't consider anything and join the wagon that looked like was going for the lynch for the day.

[Eddard Stark]

Vote count 2.4

Raivann (2) Shadow1psc, Feysal

Twilight Sparkle (4) Magua, MagnaofIllusion, Benmage, Raivann

Bunnylover (2) Ghostlin, hasdgfas
Setael (3) Danakillsu, DrippingGoofball, LynchMePls
danakillsu (1) Kast
Ghostlin (1) xvart

Not voting (8) Zdenek, Twilight Sparkle, Bunnylover, Nexus, Setael, DTMaster, Locke Lamora, Thor665

With 21 alive it takes 11 to lynch. No majority at deadline and there'll be no lynch.

Envoy to the Eyrie

[/u]

Setael (3) Magua, Benmage, Raivann

Bunnylover (4) Danakillsu, MagnaofIllusion, LynchMePls, xvart

Raivann (2) Bunnylover, Ghostlin
Zdenek (1) Kast


Not nominating (11) Twilight Sparkle, Shadow1psc, Nexus, DrippingGoofball, Locke Lamora, DTMaster, Thor665, Setael, Zdenek, Feysal, Hasgfas

With 21 alive it takes 11 to sent someone to the Eyrie

* I'll prd people Monday.
* Kast is on V/la. As is THE LOCKE. As is Nexus.
* Any mistakes in the VC point them out
*The deadline is two weeks and can be found here.

[Magua]

@Magua: No. I think Diddin was just trying to join whatever wagon was available at that time. As Benmage pointed out, Diddin just didn't consider anything and join the wagon that looked like was going for the lynch for the day.

So you don't think Raivann and diddin were partners?

[Bunnylover]

@Magua: No. I think Diddin was just trying to join whatever wagon was available at that time. As Benmage pointed out, Diddin just didn't consider anything and join the wagon that looked like was going for the lynch for the day.

So you don't think Raivann and diddin were partners?

No, I don't believe they are partners.
I would have expected them to be partners if Diddin stayed on Raivann wagon longer instead of just switching off as he would know he was avoiding a mislynch (I believe he switched before the claim)
This doesn't exclude the possibility that Raivann is an SK/ or on another scum team.

[Ghostlin]

@Feysal, Ghostlin, Bunnylover:

Do you think diddin was bussing Raivann through most of D1?

*raises hand*

Possibly, to not arouse suspicion. Scum do cross vote each other all the time; it allows for cases such as 'I can't be scum, since he flipped scum and voted me. Why would he vote a buddy?'

Mod: I am feeling under the weather, I may be V-LA for the next day or two.

[Locke Lamora]

Looking at diddin in ISO, his attitude towards both DGB and Raivann is interesting. He starts the game saying DGB is town. Note his first post where he raises DGB on the basis of being a strong townread and tentatively enquires whether any other players feel this way: 'don't know about anybody else'. He later admits this is pretty much gut. He seems to downgrade DGB slightly in relation to Benmage, then he suggests that DGB wanting to vig GreyICE despite thinking he's town is a bad thing, but never seems to expand on whether he thinks this is scummy or not, just that Benmage's VI strategy makes more sense. then after DGB has been trying to get Hascow to break his restriction, he makes this comment:

Speaking of which I find DGB's suspicion of has to be a little odd. I understand how he could be scum based on the "things he can and can's say" argument, but I find her push to get has to break his PR to be scummy for reasons others have stated.

This strikes me as a bit of a lazy comment that's following the prevailing mood without really looking into DGB's play at all. This reflects the overall lack of substance in his comments about DGB's play, despite the fact he mentions her several times. I could see DGB as diddin's buddy, going from the early attempt to suggest her as a raise candidate and transferring into later calling her scummy when it seems convenient without really pushing it any further.

On Raivann:
Contrary to what I think some people have indicated, diddin's Raivann vote isn't much of an indicator about Raivann's alignment, due to the fact that diddin is one of the leading wagons at the time. Shortly after Raivann votes Zoraster, which is about when the Zoraster wagon starts to gain steam, he states that he likes Zoraster as a Raivann buddy but that he'd rather lynch Raivann first; not sure whether a buddy would be so likely to say this, although I guess it would make sense from the perspective of having an easy candidate to fall back on once Raivann was lynched, and in the event that Zoraster is lynched first, this 'link' is then removed, giving diddin an excuse to drop the Raivann suspicion. I would say diddin also makes a real point of wanting to lynch Raivann first, which pings my scumdar. His later attack on Bunny which is coupled with a downgrading of the Raivann suspicion gives me a worse impression of the Raivann slot, as it really looks like diddin's already thinking about who to set up for D2's lynch and he uses Bunny's poor posting to basically drop his 'favoured' candidate way down his scumlist in the space of a few lines. I would say that diddin's approach to Raivann overall gives me a scummier read on that slot.

More to come later.

[Twilight Sparkle]

In fact, the problem can be summed up as so: Twilight Sparkle is hitogoroshi, Mina, and Sotty7, three good players. It is D2, after a thousand posts and two scum flips. Tell me who they think the scum are.

Mina's been on vacation for a week; Sotty's been sick for just about that long. So really, it's been just me, one good player, trying to find time for this game in between illness of my own (it's making it very hard for me to sleep, which has been hurting me all week but actually helped tonight!), classes, and another game where I'm also not at full speed.

ISO Spectacular

danakillsu

The most interesting thing is the dana<--->mijukin interaction. He's been voting for mijukin for most of the game (in one memorable occasion, voting for mijukin while he was already voting for mijukin.)

His vote for him today was framed thusly:

I had this read yesterday, I still have it today. Vote: Mikujin

"I had this read yesterday" doesn't sit at all well with me. Scum are oftentimes over-focused on consistency over anything else, and that seems awfully much like "hey guys, look, I didn't change my mind." A mijukin townflip casts a serious shadow on dana.

---

dindin

With his stark flip, it's worth hunting for connections.

The weirdest thing about dindin is his hop off of Raivann right at the end. ISO 20 is the post to read. Zoraster lynch was more-or-less in the bag; why the awkward swap?

I have a theory. We can see in dindin's ISO 15 that he was building connections between Raivann and zoraster, but wanted to lynch Raivann first. If he was bussing Raivann, he would get a free zoraster mislynch to push with purchase. (Ythill once used the term "grooming a mislynch", and I like it quite a bit.) However, with the other end being tested first, suddenly it's better to stop the presses on that bus because it won't get you the free mislynch. With the pendulum swinging from Raivann to zoraster, I find his awkward hop makes most sense as "well shit, don't have to bus after all." Incidentally, this lends a lot of weight to Bunnylover-town, since dindin used BL as his scapegoat to exit from the Raivann wagon. Regardless of Raivann's alignment, blatantly using BL as his reason to leave the wagon makes BL seem very likely non-stark (and, since one-scum appears to be most likely, likely-town.)

Though, that being said, there's the issue of Raivann's blatant “I have a town read on you, move your vote please” to dindin. It obviously would makes sense as a code for “stop bussing me”; but it also feels a tad awkward for a scum to say to his buddy.

Raivann:

How many games have you played as scum on-site?

---

DrippingGoofball

Her big push that cow was faking a PR gets some townpoints from me. I was in exactly the same boat, and had exactly the same thoughts. You can tell in her posts that she's worried scum is faking a PR to coast effortlessly all game. And, to her credit, she immediately realized the vast shift in likelihood once the dayvig actually happened.

I think as the flips come through we'll be able to learn a lot more from her constant lynch-list posting. I have absolutely no interest in lynching DGB at the moment. She seems pretty likely town, and more importantly, if she's scum, I suspect it'll be much easier to discern as the game rolls on.

---

GreyICE/DTMaster

GreyICE

Won't spend that much time rehasing old points as to why GreyICE looked town. I've already got little enough time for this damn game as is. :/

DTM

Nothing from him yet. He'd have to be pretty damn scummy to get rid of my town read on GreyICE, though.

---

Feysal

Feysal's posts are fairly dense but I'm liking what I'm seeing. An exception would be his attacking Raivann for attacking ASOIAF 206 (the post that said “I love Ben's posts about killing VI's, also wut are VI's”); I agree that that post seems scummy and needs pressure. That being said, he's attacking for a more nuanced reason than that, and I'm kinda agreeing with his Raivann case even while I suspect the same person he did/does.

He makes good points that we likely just have Starks, but then I think I said that already.

Overall, Feysal is one of my stronger town reads.

---

Hasdgfas

I thought he was almost certaintly fakeclaiming, but after his shot actually went through, I'm calling him confirmed town.

---

Kast

Hard to read with his heavy use of @'s without quotes. I don't want to back-scroll and try to glean the context but without it Kast is a hard read.

Glad to see him easily switch on LL when faced with the new evidence.

Juries still out; we'll see what happens when he gets back.

---

Locke Lamora

Mostly-confirmed town now; highly doubt Gregor is anything but a Lannister. I could, however, see him as a sk (I don't have my books with me atm, lent them to a friend, but I remember Twyin saying something about him as a dog in his service that he doesn't associate with house Lannister...someone with the books please confirm/deny). But sk hunting is something to save for when we have more night actions/flips to work with. Right now we're scumhunting, and LL ain't Stark.

---

LynchMePls

I skipped him alpahbetically and left him for last. For whatever reason I'm finding it hard to get anything out of him. I'm a little unhappy with how quickly he's swapping his read on Raivann based solely on Magua's logic. As well, I'd really like to hear your reasoning for Raising Bunnylover.

Null with gut badtimes pings for now.

---

MagnaOfIllusion

MoI is the anti-Spyrex. I tend to read Spyrex as town regardless of his alignment because I always glean some measure of earnesty from his style. Conversely, MoI's posting style makes me think he's scum, but I know it's not based on anything rational and it's just a gut dislike.

Sotty and Mina both have more experience with MoI and I'm happy leaving the question open for them. At any rate, he's certainly a net pro-town force at the moment (though I would've told you differently in the heat of GreyICE vs. MoI), and we've got way too much tempo to mess around lynching helpful players because they might be scum. That's not the answer my primal gut wants but my primal gut is by and large pretty stupid.

---

Magua

He's a very deliberate player. His posts march in sequence like neat little soliders. Reading his ISO, it's really quite remarkable. He flows from thinking about governor to thinking about the vig to pushing zoraster, 1-2-3. It's a very good style for town to have, but unfortunately, it's also a good style for scum to choose (if they can muster the energy – it's hard to do) because a.) it looks hella town and b.) it lets you march off your fake thoughts in easy sequence.

That being said, in my limited (MoCo) meta experience, he posts like this as town, and he's looking pretty solidly town here as well. I will say that as scum, it's an easier style that most to fake looking town with, and depending on how the next couple days pan out it might be worth revisiting Magua-scum. But, as with MoI, we have too much tempo to bother with testing “what if pro-town high activity player x is a scum mastermind”.

---

Mikujin (and Setael)

Mikujin

Very little of substance. I mentioned it earlier with “If you're not voting, you're not caught up.” His vote on DGB is a very safe one. I could easily see this being a vote that, as Kast put it, is “placating the mob”. Then again, as an overwhelmed townie with no scumreads who just wants to vote

someone

, seeing someone demand that a PR modkill themselves would be a good choice.

Setael is not yet in-thread; we'll have to watch him to get an idea as to this slots alignment. A mikujin lynch at this stage would be premature, though raising him is a pretty solid idea.

---

Nexus

Not too much out of Nexus. That being said, his ISO 7 seems to me to be pretty townish – I don't see scum being so prolific. He abandons his first two votes for very good reasons.

Very curious to see how he votes when he returns from V/LA.

---

Percy (and Ghostlin)

Percy

Nothin.'

Ghostlin

I'm in a similar position as him (I'm basically 'replacing in' to this game) and I can sympathize with the unpleasant task he has. He hasn't made too many connections with other players, but it's unfair to expect him to have done so. After reading Feysal's posts, I realize that I'm giving Raivann too much credit just for sharing a suspect with me, and ghostlins suspicion seems genuine.

One thing, though: ghostlin: Look at dindin's ISO 20. How do you interpret this with regards to Bunnylover?

---

Shadow1psc

As I said before, I disliked his initial tone, but his sheer chattiness seems unlikely to come from scum. His day one morass, while not particularly helpful, has an eagerness about it that I find hard to attribute to scuminess.

His day two performance, though, is odd. Compared to his sheer volume day one, I'm not understanding why he's comparatively so silent. His Raivann vote is a “I haven't forgotten my case on” vote, which I don't like (see: dana).

Shadow, I know you haven't forgotten your case on Raivann, but let's suppose I have. Convince me.

---

Song of ice and fire (and Thor665)

A Song of Ice and Fire

I'll say it again, I have a serious problem with ASOIAF's . It smells to me awfully like Raivann totally caught her on that tell and she fearfully lurked until she replaced out.

Thor665

Okay. This is admittedly a bit personally biased, but I take serious issue with what Thor is doing. I've been behind on this game for a long time, but one thing I did not do – could not

think

of doing – is only reading 1/4th of the thread and then feeling like I could participate in any meaningful capacity.

Scum don't actually need to be caught up to converse on the issues of the day. Townies, though, need to be to say anything useful. I can't imagine anyone reading to page eight and thinking that who they think the town/scum are matters at fucking all. The interpretation that is easily the most sensible to me is that Thor-scum feels obliged to make his “catch-up's” wall-quoting affairs, but doesn't have the energy to do it. He doesn't want to flake out, so he's 'playing' in real time while promising himself he'll fake that big catch-up sometime soon.

---

xvart

oh jesus christers another wallguy!

Gets town points for his push on dindin. I really like his arguing without voting on GreyICE – the whole exchange smacks of reasonable-town vs. aggressive-town. I'm not that happy with his recent ISO 13, though. Call it null while I see a little more of xvart – you can only ever get the true feel of a quote wall in real-time.

---

Zdenek

Gets major points for pointing out the dindin-bunnylover connection in his ISO 12.

Overall, I'm getting a decent town-read on him.

My three favorite lynches are Thor665, Raivann, and danakillsu. Thor665 and Raivann are not scum with each other.

Beyond that, I suspect to find at least one scum in kast/lmp/nexus/mikujin.

Vote: Thor665

Raise: danakillsu

As a reminder, Mina is still gone (though returning today, I think.) Sotty is going to try to catch up tomorrow. This was 100% my personal reading of the game.

I'll probably respond to recent pages in a more linear style soonish. It's 5:20AM here, and I have a 8:30 class. Not sure if I want the two hours of sleep or if I'm going to soldier on. So I might post right after this post, or I might post tomorrow after class and a refreshing nap.

-hito

[Twilight Sparkle]

EBWOP: When I say tomorrow I mean today, but after a period of unconsciousness. The practically defined tomorrow.

[Thor665]

Scum don't actually need to be caught up to converse on the issues of the day. Townies, though, need to be to say anything useful. I can't imagine anyone reading to page eight and thinking that who they think the town/scum are matters at Smurfing all. The interpretation that is easily the most sensible to me is that Thor-scum feels obliged to make his “catch-up's” wall-quoting affairs, but doesn't have the energy to do it. He doesn't want to flake out, so he's 'playing' in real time while promising himself he'll fake that big catch-up sometime soon.

Town don't actually need to be caught up to converse on the issues of the day. Scum, though, need to be to say anything useful. I can't imagine anyone reading to page eight and thinking that who they think the town/scum are matters at Smurfing all. The interpretation that is easily the most sensible to me is that Thor-town feels obliged to make his “catch-up's” wall-quoting affairs, but doesn't have the energy to do it. He doesn't want to flake out, so he's 'playing' in real time while promising himself he'll make that big catch-up sometime soon.

Strangely enough I actually think mine manages to make *exactly* as much sense. Go figure.

Also - serious question - you're accusing Song of "lurking" until she "flaked"? Does that really make sense to you?

[Nexus]

I still have the residual of sickness, but I'll see what I can do.

Well, first. I don't understand why Thor is continually posting, but says he hasn't read from page 9. Surely the only way you're going to be able to contribute properly to the game is to read the entire thing?

Also Bunnylover has jumped out as scummy to me because of her contradiction about thinking someone is scum but not voting them. Surely you vote whoever you think is scummiest? I thought that was the rules of the game. Also, refusing to nominate. Nominating someone for this is a lot different to nominating someone to be hand. Still don't agree with the Hand election either.

I dunno what Benmage's case is on me, so I can't really answer it.

Raivann hasn't really done much to convince me of his townieness. "I agree with Benmage" isn't really something which is helpful.

Zdenek: It's not really a defence. I didn't think Diddin should've been the first lynch yesterday. I was merely stating fact. I would've got bitched out if I'd voted Raivann and ignored the Diddin case, and I get bitched out for mentioning it. There's literally one thing that's a "defense", which is "I agree with his GreyICE case." That's it. The rest I'm criticising him. Yes, he flipped as scum. So I made a mistake.

So yeah. I still think that Raivann is scum, and Bunnylover is my second bet. I've never really played with a hydra, so I'm gonna have to re read Sparkle again to see what I can get off of her.

Bunny was convinced that Hascow was faking his post restriction. She pushed this quite strongly, despite others pointing out how it probably was true. ISO #17 is pretty stupid thing to post. Also trying to get LL to claim against the now-fake claim of Diddin is :/worthy.

I'd rather lynch Raivann, so

vote: Raivann

nominate: BunnyLover

[danakillsu]

@ Twilight Sparkle
Pretty sure you have to actually say "nominate". But I do agree that a Mikujin townflip would necessarily make me look very scummy.
@ Zdenek
I like how you had to quote my first post to "prove" that I've been posting fluff.
@ Benmage
We gave you an ability (and I don't even know why we did that). We didn't tell you that you got to rule the town. I, for one, am not going to let you choose who I can attack and lynch.

[Locke Lamora]

More thoughts on reading back:

xvart's push on diddin seems very genuine and well-considered, so he's strongly on my non-Stark list.

Twilight Sparkle's post has encouraged me to look back at Thor's ISO, which is actually quite amazing. He's managed to look like he's posting a decent amount of content without having read over 20 pages of the game or actually analysing anyone's play other than his own for most of it. As far as I can tell, the majority of the recent posts have been bickering with Magua/Magna/Benmage/TS over various points made against him. For this spectacular lack of scumhunting, combined with the fact that he's obviously more concerned with appearing as though he is doing something than he is with catching up with the game, I will:

Vote: Thor665

Nexus: what makes you think Bunnylover is scummy rather than a VI?

[Nexus]

I can't see a town reason for not believing in your own convictions and therefore voting for them.

Saying "I think this but I'm not gonna vote yet" covers BL's ass if BL needs to jump on that wagon, or allows BL to change tack and attack someone else instead without seeming to vote hop.

It's more of an ass covering tactic, and it's quite a good one if it's not picked up on. Generally VIs just vote whatever they want, screw the consequences.

[Thor665]

In this game I am learning that apparently the only town thing to do is post nothing until you have read up.

Which is silly.

@Locke - I've also started calling MoI scummy which is in addition to my earlier stated town reads. I bet there's at least 5 players in this game that I have now actually made more reads than and done equivalent amounts of scumhunting to even with my abbreviated iso.

[Locke Lamora]

Let me put it like this: you have spent far more time rebutting points made against you and your cases (whether you think that those points are scummy or not, it's still all focused on you) than you have looking at the play of others independent to your own, whether in the present or through reading back. Isn't most of your MoI suspicion based on apparently flawed points he made against you? Would you agree that you've spent far more time defending yourself than you have actively looking for scum?

[Thor665]

I'll agree I've spent more time reacting to stuff about myself - but without a backlog of awareness one is obligated to be a reactionary player. Also, even when I am caught up I tend to evoke reactions via my own actions and read them more than looking at people's reactions to others. Reacting to people's actions to yourself is not inherently a lack of scumhunting, but rather a narrowed focus of scumhunting. The question is - can you see how I've been getting reactions from people, pointing out those reactions, and declaring them as tells of one sort or another. If you can say yes to that then I am still scumhunting, just not on a scope you would prefer.

Would you rather I have not posted anything at all today other than "still trying to find time to read up, lol" is *that* better scumhunting and pro-town play? Because that's what I would have been doing if not this.

[Thor665]

Oh, and I will add I did do the MoI/Twilight thing that isn't about me. Apparently it was chainsaw - but ::shrug:: that's what happens when you talk about people that aren't you.

[Locke Lamora]

Well, I'd rather that you had read up, but offered the choice between the two, I'd rather you were familiar with more of the game and posted less right now than trading shots with the likes of Magna and Benmage - as, let's face it, you could do that all day, and it's not going to tell us much about your or their alignment. What bothers me is that there's this whole portion of the game you haven't even read, let alone commented on, and that in turn leads to the absence of the 'backlog of awareness' you refer to. Without that, we can't infer anything from your actions in relation to anything players said or did on those pages, and if we do, you can say 'oh, I haven't read it yet', which is not an excuse any player should have let alone for that large a portion of a game. What if you're town and you're missing several contributions from someone that would completely change your read on them? What if you're scum and your buddies did a couple of things that you think are really scummy, so by not reading the game you're not having to comment (or avoid commenting)?

Finally, I don't see every post you're making to be all about getting reactions in order to scumhunt. There's one where you explain your sarcasm in a bit more detail, for instance. Have you worked out anything about Benmage's alignment by pointing out flaws in his case against you? Have you got a read on Twilight Sparkle by rewriting that portion of their post? If so, I don't see the evidence of it. Maybe this is just because you're spending a lot of time defending yourself, but one of the main reasons you're doing that is because you haven't read all those pages in the first place.

[LimMePls]

@Magua:

Not sure where I'm going to put my vote.

I'm debating with-in my head rather or not to vote Raivann, but if he town he just such an easy mislynch.

I mean even I think he's scum,

and I'm useless in my reads almost all my games except for three and one was with like 8 people left.

This. Great catch Magua.

Basically I'm self doubting my read.
Yes I think he scum.
Looking back at my past game, my reads are usually wrong.
Should I follow my reads that are usually wrong or consider something else.
That why I haven't voted. Their no discrepancy, I just don't know if I should trust my reads.
Like I said yesterday if we lynch Zoraster before Raivann, Raivann will still be viewed as scummy while the other way around Zoraster wouldn't have. So should I go with my read even though my mind tells me scum didn't lynch Raivann because they knew they could lynch him tomorrow or scum didn't lynch Raivann because he part of their group.
Bah, I hate how my mind work =/.


And yes I agree with Hasdgfas, DTM needs to speak up more and gives his opinions (that is what your saying?)

So Bunnylover wants to distance himself from his own opinions, but DTM needs to speak up more and give his opinions. Nice double-think.

Bunny's wishy-washy attitude with this fake scum hunting is scummy.

Oh, and I should probably explain why I think we only have one scum faction. Given the size of the game, I think scum factions would most likely have three members if there were two factions, four at most. We've had two Starks flip, both of them power roles. To balance that, the theoretical other scum faction should also have power roles. If factions had three members each, that would mean that the majority of the scum had powers, and if there were godfathers, there would be no room for goons at all. That is one thing. In addition, Brynden Tully seems to be a relatively obscure character, and if you had to pick three or four characters on the Stark side, I don't think he would make the cut. My conclusion is that there is only one main mafia faction, the Starks.

This stinks of inside information.

Chesskid had soft claimed Tywin Lannister, by saying his character had been the Hand before. The scum may have believed him and thought that Tywin would be a power role. If Chesskid did that on purpose, it was actually well done... he managed to draw a night kill, saving someone else and avoiding his own potential policy lynch.

1)Why was this a soft-claim to Tywin? Tyrion had been the hand as well, so it was more just a soft claim to his role. I thought he might be setting up a fakeclaim, since I was of the opion that he was scum.
2)Are you suggesting that Chesskid was the Stark kill?

LynchMePls

I skipped him alpahbetically and left him for last. For whatever reason I'm finding it hard to get anything out of him. I'm a little unhappy with how quickly he's swapping his read on Raivann based solely on Magua's logic. As well, I'd really like to hear your reasoning for Raising Bunnylover.

Null with gut badtimes pings for now.

If by "raising" you mean "nominating", it's cause I think he's scum.

Changing my vote due to the Hands' wishes.

Unvote
Vote: Feysal

@Benmage: Why exactly are Bunnylover and Mikujin bad lynches?

[Thor665]

@Locke

Re: my read on Benmage - actually he ducked away from me, which made me suspect he was testing me and wasn't so excited about the answers I was giving. Overall I give that a town tell from him, because considering some of the other general support a Thor lynch is getting I would have expected more screaming and finger pointing if he was interested in getting through a mislynch.

Re: my read on Twilight - I don't have a read on TS yet because a) It's a hydra and those are obnoxious to read and b) it hasn't actually responded back to my snark yet. Really I'm hoping to get more Mina and Sotty eventually, as I know them better as players than hito and will be able to read them better. I personally find his issue with me about as insightful as what you initially posted, but until I can get some more reactions I can't draw a conclusion from that alone. I'll admit my immediate knee-jerk is to think of them as town simply because of the MoI read I'm getting, but I am giving him the benefit of the doubt till I actually see the case he's posted.

Re: Me posting without reading all of thread yet - eh, I can see your point. But if I actively participate I don't get caught behind the rolling end point of "I read five pages, but everyone generated five pages, net gain zero" problem that I have when I've been in a larger game to read up on with limited reading time. In the past I would have just focused on reading, but having been caught by that before and being well aware the limited time I'd have for catch up reading I decided to try an alternate method. At the moment I'm liking parts of it and disliking parts of it - but I'm amazed how many strong players treat it as inherently scummy play when I really do not see that angle. I agree it's inherently 'hard to read' play - but no way I chose to handle it the length of my reading catch up would change that aspect in any way.

[Thor665]

@Locke - actually, I may reverse my Benmage position, because looking back he just recently still listed me as a top suspect on his 'approved attack list' and yet he didn't come galumphing back at me.

@Benmage - how come lack of attack back at my responses to you? I get lonely and confused when that happens.