Execution Mafia GAMEOVER!

[Tragedy]

Allow me to Steal a Quote and Post it here which was directed at Me.

So your lack of any reads day one actually made me think you weren't scum trying to slip under the radar but town having trouble scumhunting.

[Final Fires]

I still hold that killing a lurker is anti-town. Attacking someone who can't defend themselves is scummy. I'm not going to repeat myself, I've explained all my scum reads in the past. Although I will say that I found SV scummy long before he started lurking.

If killing lurkers is anti-town, why do you want to kill Tragedy and SO? If you already answered it and I missed it you can just quote it or direct me to the post number. Please don't say your dual-scum theory either.

This dependence on Amrun is not good for town, but if you're all too blind to see it, then I suppose I have no choice but to vote her.

I'm for killing SO if SV flips town because it fits with my dual scum list theory, I'll get a clearer picture of who's who. Besides, he's not exactly adding much to the game.

I know what your dual scum list theory is, but I don't understand how you got it. Why did SO go from being "not concerning you" to your top 5 scummiest reads?

Also, I think the dual scum list theory is extremely scummy. It's just one big attempt to line up lynches:

So I say we kill one person from one list, if they flip town, kill someone from the other list, if they flip scum, kill another from the first list. Either way, from my point of view, there's still one scum unaccounted for, so I'll be trying to figure out who it is.

So if charter is likely town, who's left?

And why do you suddenly think Charter's town too?

I've had no reason to believe TS is scum this game, although I should ISO him just in case.

Why didn't SO get this same treatment, considering you've defended him as town beyond a shadow of a doubt (to the point where everyone who accused him got on your scum list) the entire game up until this point?

[Amrun]

Tragedy, those are just excuses. You're not making much of an effort.

[Umbrage]

So NOW you think SO is scum, Umbrage?

I think he's the scummiest person we can agree on killing.

Why didn't SO get this same treatment, considering you've defended him as town beyond a shadow of a doubt (to the point where everyone who accused him got on your scum list) the entire game up until this point?

I've already said a million times that I was not defending SO. I see no point in responding to you until you read my posts.

[Amrun]

Whether you meant to or not, it really came off as defending SO, and the things you used to argue that he wasn't scummy / was town etc. were very selective, since you used opposite arguments on others.

I don't think all of that was your intention, but I do see why people are attacking that. You come off as genuine to me, but you have absolutely had faulty reasoning, which is a scumtell. I can't fault people for seeing it as scummy, really, even if I disagree.

[Ant_to_the_max]

If SV flips town, I am fine with no lynching. From the sound of things, some people might have more to say tomorrow anyways. If he flips scum, I think we totally should use our nightkill though. I still say Tragedy would be my proposed lynch

[Final Fires]

Why didn't SO get this same treatment, considering you've defended him as town beyond a shadow of a doubt (to the point where everyone who accused him got on your scum list) the entire game up until this point?

I've already said a million times that I was not defending SO. I see no point in responding to you until you read my posts.

You say that you weren't defending SO, but your actions speak differently. I was one of your top reads the entire game. I shed some suspicion on SO, and immediately I became one of your top scum reads. You also put every single person who accused SO into your scum reads. That's a chainsaw defense. You say that you defended because he was "inactive" and not able to post, but the problem with that is that SO's bandwagon didn't gain momentum until

after

he started to post.

I realize that you say it's because the SO wagon was "an easy wagon for scum to jump on" that scum would jump on, but the Tragedy, Vez, and SV wagons are just as easy (if not easier), and you've been pushing those.

Now please respond to the rest of my points on that last post.

So NOW you think SO is scum, Umbrage?

I think he's the scummiest person we can agree on killing.

You haven't thought he's scummy this entire game! You've been fighting that he's town nonstop, up until you put him in your top 5 scum reads in your duel theory post for seemingly no reason.

[Umbrage]

Either SO is town or scum. I don't know which. But I do think he's of opposite alignment with SV. I think SV is scum. That's the extent of my reasoning as to why SO is town. Therefore, if SV flips town, my logic needs to be reversed.

[Amrun]

I see no link between SV and SO. Care to elaborate?

[Final Fires]

Please respond to these points:

If killing lurkers is anti-town, why do you want to kill Tragedy and SO?

Why did SO go from being "not concerning you" to your top 5 scummiest reads?

And why do you suddenly think Charter's town too?

Either SO is town or scum. I don't know which. But I do think he's of opposite alignment with SV. I think SV is scum. That's the extent of my reasoning as to why SO is town. Therefore, if SV flips town, my logic needs to be reversed.

Again, this just seems like lining up lynches.

[Setael]

This is actually a really good point. Plus, if we do have two potential night kills (one for ___ flipping town, the other for ____ flipping scum), which one do we make claim before the execution? We don't know how the person is going to flip, and so we wouldn't know which of them needed to claim.

I hadn't thought of that. It's a good idea to just pick a night kill based on SV flipping scum, and having a no kill submitted if he flips town. I still see vezok as a likely scum buddy. He's flown under the radar all day because he hinted at a PR. As I stated earlier:

Posts 201 and 204 create a definite connection between SV and vezok (SV says he needs to do an ISO of vezok and never does and then a couple of posts later vezok says he is leaning town on SV without giving a reason at all.

[Umbrage]

I've covered all those before. Tragedy and SO are active lurking, they can clearly post when they want. SO flat out refuses to provide content, which is the main reason I feel his death does not pose a significant loss to the town. Charter's been off my scum list for a while, basically because I can't see scum tunneling on one player for the entire game. At least, not outside a newbie game.

And if you want to find examples of lining up lynches, I suggest you take a look at this: forhttp://mafiascum.net/um/viewtopic.php?p=2814667#p2814667

[Amrun]

You have flip flopped SO much on StrungOver.

[Umbrage]

Hey, a pun!

[StrungOver]

OMFG KILL VEZO OR EXE OR FF OR SV ALREADY!

[Tragedy]

Dun rush it.

[Final Fires]

SO, who do you think is town?

[Final Fires]

I know a lot of this stuff is really old, but I did a quick ISO of TS and had a few questions. Also I've got one question for Exe and Umbrage. I'll put the post number it was in your ISO in case you need to remember the context.

I'm going to take a break before Godwin's law explodes.
but of course, taking breaks is for scum

(Post #10)

What exactly did you mean by this?

This is why even though Exe might be gunning for me, even

if

I die it might be in the interests of the town if Exe lives, and that's why I'm not interested in an Exe kill at this point, Just because he wants to kill me, It doesn't mean he's mafioso.

(Post #19)

This post was made after Exe's "daykill", but before Exe revealed that it was fake. TS, how did you know that Exe's daykill wasn't real?

What evidence do we have that he is mafia? Sure, he could have been lurkking/active lurking, but apart from this is seems a little Anti-town from the little game-related info he's provided us with. We don't know his opinions on anything yet :s

[Later in that same post]

It looks like we're all divided over an SO kill :/
I find it safer if we don't execute him today, but that's just my opinion, and I'm sure you have your reasons. He's certainly not the least suspicious player :/

I'd favour a Tragedy lynch, but wouldn't mind hearing more from our old friend SV

(Post #32)

Why was it anti-town to kill SO because he's a lurker, but you were ok with killing Tragedy? And now SV?

I've been meaning to give some attention to SO, but there's always been something more urgent. And I feel better making cases on people that I know will read them and respond, but hey. I'll give it a shot. [Later in that same post] This is why neither Exe or myself should be killed at this time.

(Post #21)

You said yourself you were going to give attention to SO earlier on for lurking. Why did this never happen? And when someone else did give them that attention, why did it seem scummy, if you were going to do it yourself earlier?

If we allow kills at night, then I feel that we leave the mafia a chance to say "well I thought this person was scum."
If we force them to no-kill, they don't get any options to have their way AND

we guarantee that any kills at night are made by scum

.

(Post #72)

Could you clarify what you meant by this?

[StrungOver]

I think ant umbrage and ts are town. Also the reason I refuse to contribute much is because I refuse to pretisipate in this wierd conveluded twisted long day that consists of 0 scum hunting any more but rather consists of speculation and speculation of speculations. This discusts me for 3 reaspns. The first is that it is long and pointless. The second is that it is killing my interest in this game and the third and most important is that we are giving scum the oppertunity to not only fly under the radar and hide between walls of text but we are also giving them way to much info and alsoooo we are giving scum a chance to not any push their wrong ideas of who is scum onto is but also to make us forget what we are really talking about and what the real first question we were talking about was . I have stated who I think is scum I have given reasons for them all and I have supported those reasons. That is all I as a town member can do. Vezo is obviously the passive scum who is flying low. FF is the scum who is being agressive and Exe is the scum hiding between FF's posts and people talking about vezo's lurking. Sv is simply a bad player who may or may not be scum, I don't think he is, but he is a bad player and some what anti- town. Now I know FF is going to pop in here and tear this post up and take everything out of context but hey whatever he is scum. what you gunna do? also I do feel I need to post my thoughts on umbrage. first off he agrees with me then FF SAYS i'm wrong and Umbrage is all like no he's not wrong and even if he is that doesn't make him scum. now how in the hell does that make him scum at all. first off he didn't deffend me he simply deffended his beliefes. i find it so scummy that FF is attacking him like that and misrepping him so much. now is this deffending umbrage? No! It is just 1 calling scum out on being scum and 2 deffending what I believe to be right. FF would be the towns best day kill for today.

[Final Fires]

I think ant umbrage and ts are town.

Could you explain what makes you think ant is town?

Also the reason I refuse to contribute much is because I refuse to pretisipate in this wierd conveluded twisted long day that consists of 0 scum hunting any more but rather consists of speculation and speculation of speculations. This discusts me for 3 reaspns. The first is that it is long and pointless.

I understand your frustration at the long day, but we have a lot of decisions to make and a lot of information to process. It's day one so we don't have much to go off of; although I wouldn't agree that there's 0 scum hunting. No matter how frustrating or annoying this long day is, it's in everyone's best interests if you don't stop participating.

Now I know FF is going to pop in here and tear this post up and take everything out of context but hey whatever he is scum. what you gunna do?

As far as I'm aware, I haven't taken anything out of context throughout the course of this game. Can you quote any place I've done this?

first off [umbrage] agrees with me then FF SAYS i'm wrong...

If I see something scummy, I call it out. Townies are able to defend their stances on positions, and can give good reasoning why they posted what they did. When I pointed out several flaws, contradictions, etc in your argument, you brushed off almost all of my questions. If you had a good reason for saying something, you would've been able to address my arguments.

...and Umbrage is all like no he's not wrong and even if he is that doesn't make him scum. now how in the hell does that make him scum at all.

Umbrage never said you weren't wrong. He said that he "wouldn't support your flawed arguments". What's scummy is that he doesn't agree with what you've posted, but says has defended you because you're "an easy target for scum"; however he's gunning for SV, Tragedy, and Vez, who are all just as easy. Plus he's suddenly lined you up to be lynched if SV flips town; we're still awaiting an explanation on his reasoning behind it.

first off he didn't deffend me he simply deffended his beliefes.

It's the exact opposite. Umbrage has ONLY defended you, and not defended your beliefs whatsoever; which is why he looks scummy. Quote one place where he's defended your beliefs.

i find it so scummy that FF is attacking him like that and misrepping him so much.

Again, quote any place that I've misrepped him.

now is this deffending umbrage? No! It is just 1 calling scum out on being scum and 2 deffending what I believe to be right. FF would be the towns best day kill for today.

Your only reasoning that I'm scum is because you've somehow linked me with Exe. Every other argument that you've made against me has been addressed.

@Umbrage - Could you respond to Am's question on post 833?

[Umbrage]

You said yourself you were going to give attention to SO earlier on for lurking. Why did this never happen? And when someone else did give them that attention, why did it seem scummy, if you were going to do it yourself earlier?

Because I'm lazy? Sorry, I'm trying to keep up in this game, but there's been a lot of school shit going on. From my point of view, the initial questions on SO weren't scummy. The scumminess came from the amount of bandwagoners that suddenly appeared, and how FF, Exe, and Amrun, suddenly all agreed he was scum.

I see no link between SV and SO. Care to elaborate?

SV's first post when returning from his absence was to vote for SO to die. This was after Exe, FF, and Amrun had started attacking him. It's an obvious bandwagon, and one of a main signifier to me that something was up. When scum distance each other, it's usually with some venom, so when their partner flips scum, there's no way anyone could consider the other anything but town. SV was more neutral about it, he didn't care if SO died, but he didn't really think he was scum. I read them as opposite alignments.

[Exe]

@FF, regarding post 72. If all townies had agreed to no-kill at night, we would know that someone dying meant that scum had taken the kill.


This day is dragging on. Amrun should make the kill and then no-kill at night.

[Umbrage]

@ Exe: Say we go through with your plan, but someone still dies. Amrun claims she was not elected killer. Would you want to kill Amrun?

[Umbrage]

@ Exe: Say we go through with your plan, but someone still dies. Amrun claims she was not elected killer. Would you want to kill Amrun?

Actually, I'd like everyone to answer this question.

[Twistedspoon]

I'll answer your questions FF, they all seem reasonable and I have the answers

I'm going to take a break before Godwin's law explodes.
but of course, taking breaks is for scum

(Post #10)

What exactly did you mean by this?

This post was taken early in the game I seem to remember. Exe was intent on upping the tempo of the game as it was going a bit slow-paced. Here I was making a joke that I needed a break and therefore must be scum as Exe said that scum hate a fast tempo or something like that.
Basically It is a joke out of context. I guess it does seem a little ominous here though.

This is why even though Exe might be gunning for me, even

if

I die it might be in the interests of the town if Exe lives, and that's why I'm not interested in an Exe kill at this point, Just because he wants to kill me, It doesn't mean he's mafioso.

(Post #19)

This post was made after Exe's "daykill", but before Exe revealed that it was fake. TS, how did you know that Exe's daykill wasn't real?

I didn't know it wasn't real and even now still find it hard to believe so
I just said I didn't want Exe dead because that would be an anti-town thing to do; something I wouldn't want as it would harm my win condition. I had no pro-town reason to want Exe dead, so i concluded I had no logical reason to want him dead and therefore didn't want him dead

Why was it anti-town to kill SO because he's a lurker, but you were ok with killing Tragedy? And now SV?

Because I had reasons to believe that they had both acted scummish. SO i did not.
I hoope that clears things up for you FF. I'll finish reading the rest of the thread from your post now