if you agree about my point on the reaction regarding Zors claim....why aren't you voting Sparkle?
Thor > Twilight Sparkle.
Twilight still has the potential to do something (if Hito is telling the truth we should see a boost in their activeness and post).
Thor is too focus on defending himself and I can't see him getting out of that ruckus.
I see Thor having the better odds of flipping scum then Twilight
So Twilight it is then.
Nexus wrote: "I agree with Benmage" isn't really something which is helpful.
I disagree.
Setael wrote:
Raivann, post 766 wrote:@Mina- What? This will be your 3rd game we've played together now. First one I was town, second one I was scum.
I think you must have noticed that I don't post this much when I'm scum. I'm too scared I'll f up.
Surely town Mina would notice this?
@Raivann: I can't tell if your reason for posting this is to state that you think Mina is scum (as she would supposedly notice if she were town) or to try to get her to defend you? Elaborate, please.
Sure, I had some scum vibes from Mina.Twilight originally agreed with my case on Thor but then said I was suspect #1.
Twilight and BL both saying Thor is scum is making me rethink my stance on Thor.
Raivann is not diddin's partner. Raivann is not Stark. I'm pleased that Benmage took her lynch off the table for today, because the amount of people who are for her lynch despite the Raivann/diddin interaction D1 is mindboggling. Ghostlin will reply with something about bussing. Their interaction does not read like bussing, is what I'm saying.
Twilight Sparkle remains scum. Happy with my vote there. Would be happier if other people moved their vote there as well.
Am coming around to Nexus-as-scum.
Am coming around to Thor-as-town. His repeated "I haven't read the thread, nyeah nyeah," is annoyingly antitown, but just seems like one of those "Duh" things where I can't imagine Thor-as-scum saying to themselves, "I know! I'll claim I haven't read the thread, and then I'll start mocking everyone who calls me on it! Being a pest in a game where I know there's another killing faction that could shoot me seems like a great move!"
For those who are not voting Twilight Sparkle, I'd like to know if it's because a) you think they're town, or b) you think they're null-to-scum, but you have a larger scumread on someone else.
Magua wrote:Am coming around to Thor-as-town. His repeated "I haven't read the thread, nyeah nyeah," is annoyingly antitown, but just seems like one of those "Duh" things where I can't imagine Thor-as-scum saying to themselves, "I know! I'll claim I haven't read the thread, and then I'll start mocking everyone who calls me on it! Being a pest in a game where I know there's another killing faction that could shoot me seems like a great move!"
He seemed to get pretty quite after I linked his delayed reading to a KNOWN scum tactic of his.
"ITT Benmage is making Shakespeare look cool. I need to bring you to my high school." -Vi
"If i must blantantly follow somone a player cannot do better than blindly following benmage" - tubby216
Magua wrote:Raivann is not diddin's partner. Raivann is not Stark. I'm pleased that Benmage took her lynch off the table for today, because the amount of people who are for her lynch despite the Raivann/diddin interaction D1 is mindboggling. Ghostlin will reply with something about bussing. Their interaction does not read like bussing, is what I'm saying.
On a side note, I'm male. I know the "ann" on the end is a little confusing. Raivann= Nirvana (mixed up)
Benmage wrote:He seemed to get pretty quite after I linked his delayed reading to a KNOWN scum tactic of his.
Link to this game, please.
I thought I said it is from Zachs mountainous game which just recently ended. In the LG themed section..you can scroll down to find it. But the highlighted part is here:
His first post into the game:
Thor665 wrote:Greetings all,
As noted above I (and my awesome beard) are replacing Nikanor (whose beard is, at best, acceptable). When I replace in I read the thread and will post up vague walls of commentary text. This I feel is helpful as it will 1. help establish your attitude towards me as a player and 2. will possibly remind you of something interesting that already happened.
I do promise you that this slot will never again need replacement. I'll also promise superior scumhuntng, but find that's harder to ensure. I seem to average about 7-10 pages each catching up session, so probably will manage to be caught up by the weekend sometime.
Special greetings to everyone I've played with before.
Post time: Wed Nov 10, 2010 1:30 pm
Meanwhile, his first post in his scum daychat QT is:
"I'm going to start up my usual replace in methodology in thread. Probably I can use that to lurk through a fair chunk of the rest of the day and my brief glance made it appear you're not in any immediate danger of a lynch (which is very good)."
Post time: 11-10-2010 01:24 PM ET (US)
"ITT Benmage is making Shakespeare look cool. I need to bring you to my high school." -Vi
"If i must blantantly follow somone a player cannot do better than blindly following benmage" - tubby216
Raivann wrote:On a side note, I'm male. I know the "ann" on the end is a little confusing. Raivann= Nirvana (mixed up)
My bad, won't happen again. While I have your attention, though, thoughts on Twilight Sparkle?
While skimming the posts at work on my phone today ,I couldn't see name or avatars because I zoomed in, I read something and I was like"damn who's this scumbag..."
Twilight Sparkle wrote:
Magua
He's a very deliberate player. His posts march in sequence like neat little soliders. Reading his ISO, it's really quite remarkable. He flows from thinking about governor to thinking about the vig to pushing zoraster, 1-2-3. It's a very good style for town to have, but unfortunately, it's also a good style for scum to choose (if they can muster the energy – it's hard to do) because a.) it looks hella town and b.) it lets you march off your fake thoughts in easy sequence.
That being said, in my limited (MoCo) meta experience, he posts like this as town, and he's looking pretty solidly town here as well. I will say that as scum, it's an easier style that most to fake looking town with, and depending on how the next couple days pan out it might be worth revisiting Magua-scum. But, as with MoI, we have too much tempo to bother with testing “what if pro-town high activity player x is a scum mastermind”.
This analysis seems like it's coming from a scum perspective. " Oh, I'm scumhunting and he's town but I'm gonna try and plant a seed of doubt in town because Benmage and Magua are scary."
Benmage wrote:He seemed to get pretty quite after I linked his delayed reading to a KNOWN scum tactic of his.
Link to this game, please.
I thought I said it is from Zachs mountainous game which just recently ended. In the LG themed section..you can scroll down to find it.
Counterpoint to what you said: he replaces into Zach's game (as scum), and immediately (within 12 hrs) begins his reread and posting stuff from it. He continually advances his reading of the game as he posts. He mines his reading for people to attack. He does not go around poking wasp nests with sticks.
None of that I'm seeing in this game. His behavior in this game has been all about pissing people off. Could he be scum? It's not impossible. But especially given the people who are voting him (that is, Twilight Sparkle and Nexus), I'm leaning against the idea.
Come now. No 2 games are going to match identically. He finds value in delaying a read through. Because it gives him an excuse to coast. This case isn't the exact same. But here he concentrates on nothing...That he can excuse later when he finally does catch-up.
In both scenarios he benefits from the delay.
"ITT Benmage is making Shakespeare look cool. I need to bring you to my high school." -Vi
"If i must blantantly follow somone a player cannot do better than blindly following benmage" - tubby216
I'd like a Setael lynch. Why are we abandoning this ship?
Paraphrasing a role PM takes seconds, fabricating a good fakeclaim takes an eternity.
"Metadiving DGB is like playing Roblox" - T3
"She's sort of like a quantum computer, her reads exist in multiple states at once. u have to take into account the other dimensions." - Morning Tweet
DrippingGoofball wrote:I'd like a Setael lynch. Why are we abandoning this ship?
We are delaying that possibility for a day. Get with the program.
In the meantime. Bullet why you are for a Setael lynch.
"ITT Benmage is making Shakespeare look cool. I need to bring you to my high school." -Vi
"If i must blantantly follow somone a player cannot do better than blindly following benmage" - tubby216
Benmage wrote:He seemed to get pretty quite after I linked his delayed reading to a KNOWN scum tactic of his.
Link to this game, please.
I thought I said it is from Zachs mountainous game which just recently ended. In the LG themed section..you can scroll down to find it. But the highlighted part is here:
His first post into the game:
Thor665 wrote:Greetings all,
As noted above I (and my awesome beard) are replacing Nikanor (whose beard is, at best, acceptable). When I replace in I read the thread and will post up vague walls of commentary text. This I feel is helpful as it will 1. help establish your attitude towards me as a player and 2. will possibly remind you of something interesting that already happened.
I do promise you that this slot will never again need replacement. I'll also promise superior scumhuntng, but find that's harder to ensure. I seem to average about 7-10 pages each catching up session, so probably will manage to be caught up by the weekend sometime.
Special greetings to everyone I've played with before.
Post time: Wed Nov 10, 2010 1:30 pm
Meanwhile, his first post in his scum daychat QT is:
"I'm going to start up my usual replace in methodology in thread. Probably I can use that to lurk through a fair chunk of the rest of the day and my brief glance made it appear you're not in any immediate danger of a lynch (which is very good)."
Post time: 11-10-2010 01:24 PM ET (US)
Uh oh. Somebody either got overexcited or scumslipped. Last game, when I was scum, WE DIDN'T HAVE DAYTALK. I'm pretty sure everybody could have known that. Do you have reason to believe any different for this game, Benmage?
But if you are curious. I have theorized that scum would have daychat. 1 scum team..day chat...seems cool.
MODs
Have either of you ever Modded a game where scum had daychat?
"ITT Benmage is making Shakespeare look cool. I need to bring you to my high school." -Vi
"If i must blantantly follow somone a player cannot do better than blindly following benmage" - tubby216
Can you bullet or restate the Miku/Setael lynch again please.
"ITT Benmage is making Shakespeare look cool. I need to bring you to my high school." -Vi
"If i must blantantly follow somone a player cannot do better than blindly following benmage" - tubby216
Benmage wrote:Come now. No 2 games are going to match identically. He finds value in delaying a read through. Because it gives him an excuse to coast. This case isn't the exact same. But here he concentrates on nothing...That he can excuse later when he finally does catch-up.
In both scenarios he benefits from the delay.
But in the first scenario he didn't delay. Despite his comment in the scum QT, he did not lurk anywhere near the start of the game. And his "lol I'm not going to reread" already has him halfway to being the lynch, which is the antithesis of what scum would be wanting in this situation.
I didn't read the Zach mountainous game, but I ISO'ed Thor in it, and I am not seeing similarities in playstyle. I don't really want to argue this with you, but I do want to get my opinion out there on the matter. That's it.
The Envoy will immediately lose their vote for the day. They will also lose any of their abilities until the beginning of Day 3, including the ability to speak in QT, if they have it.
If scum had daychat, then it would make more sense to have the person nominated to regain their abilities at the beginning of the night phase on Day 3. Otherwise they can just discuss everything before their power is gone which kinda defeats the purpose of making scum lose their QT.
Benmage wrote:Come now. No 2 games are going to match identically. He finds value in delaying a read through. Because it gives him an excuse to coast. This case isn't the exact same. But here he concentrates on nothing...That he can excuse later when he finally does catch-up.
In both scenarios he benefits from the delay.
But in the first scenario he didn't delay. Despite his comment in the scum QT, he did not lurk anywhere near the start of the game. And his "lol I'm not going to reread" already has him halfway to being the lynch, which is the antithesis of what scum would be wanting in this situation.
I didn't read the Zach mountainous game, but I ISO'ed Thor in it, and I am not seeing similarities in playstyle. I don't really want to argue this with you, but I do want to get my opinion out there on the matter. That's it.
Thats fine. I appreciate it. I myself prefer Twilight as well. I do think Thors play has been scummy. Yes...the negative attention his way seems to have finally shut him up. I would be surprised if he posts much more without finishing his read.
Thor hasn't claimed he wont read here.. He's just dragged his feet with it. And my only point is scumThor finds that a tactic. Whether he employs it or not. he recognizes.
"ITT Benmage is making Shakespeare look cool. I need to bring you to my high school." -Vi
"If i must blantantly follow somone a player cannot do better than blindly following benmage" - tubby216
Due to the interest of time I didn't finish my read on Day 1. However I skimmed over stuffs and picked out key things that I thought of while I mull over some reads.
1. Aside: I need to find the link Benmage but there was a self-aligned lyncher with a scum target in one of my older games. I'll pull it out.
2. I skimmed over Chess because from previous experience of OOT, he has very accurate scum reads. Out of his reads these players stand out:
Diddin - Dead and revealed to be Stark; Xvart; MoI.
Generally I'd thought that the noise of his play style would keep him alive a bit longer, but he must have struck a nerve somewhere. I'll do an indepth Iso read later of Xvart/MoI so for now I'll see how they come across at the moment.
3. A quick Iso skim of Diddin sez: He hated Ice but changed his mind later (so me). He actually Voted Magus, but in the process attacked Zdenek. Then he completely drops it for Raiviann. The link established between Maguna and Raviann (or replacees) seems to be wishy was. Finally he doesn't pursue BL.
If I had to assign distancing cases, I would look into BL and Zdenek. I'd strongly look into BL since Diddin focused on a "scum slip", but left it a float in favour for a Raiviann wagon. By association of Diddin's analysis, I'd consider Maguna and Raviann slightly more townie from not reading their posts. I'll get to that later to see what they do.
4. MOI: Impressions about the Envoy powers come across as pro-town. I was reading over Chess to see why he might have died (and saw lots of MoI where NK implications point to him). I mean, calling out DGB on meta information is pretty wacked for her.
5. BL: Has a pro-town ish argument about 3rd parties (even though it's more favourable for scum to back of the Zoraster wagon for numbers, it's just they can turn on it on a dime). The problem comes from the fact that Stark-scum are more likely to turn on the 3rd party wagon for easier lynches then town. It gives them the ability to actually scum hunt. So I'd consider looking at the people who blindly joined the Zoraster wagon rather then justify their answers.
(e.g. From a quick look Benmage is very vocal about this, so I wouldn't put him as scum under the above criteria)
6. BL: If we accidentally nominate a Town aligned player, the lack of votes doesn't matter. A townie would still pursue cases regardless of vote status. If someone just gives up, then I'd be more suspect of that player. Classic self incrimination. Your argument is off, here and makes me go wat?
I would call it an almost scummy argument just because good townies wouldn't give up now with our strong lead.
7. Ghostlin: The "bad = scummy argument" at face value is really bad. Since I don't have the background info at the moment the laziness of the argument is really strong here. If someone is just bad at this game, but shows determination to hunt scum that's not a scum player. Intention is key, not ability. I'd normally be all over this, but I'm going to hold back to make sure I get all the information correct.
8. Ghostlin: The change in stance is normal (ideas change, etc, etc) but your nomination and your voting status doesn't correct this. Had you questioned/attacked Raviainn to gain more information I'd be more sympathetic to your read. You're not looking good at the moment.
Non-Raviann arguments. I wantz them. You just nulled a bit of your case here.
9.Ghostlin: Wait where did your nonsensical-Raviann case go? There's a clear distinction between anti-town and scummy that you established earlier. But now it vanished and you're sticking to the Rav-scum case. Like, wut? What was the point in bringing up the crazy theory? I don't see any initiative from you in trying to dispel them, especially since they contradict parts of your case.
The Envoy will immediately lose their vote for the day. They will also lose any of their abilities until the beginning of Day 3, including the ability to speak in QT, if they have it.
If scum had daychat, then it would make more sense to have the person nominated to regain their abilities at the beginning of the night phase on Day 3. Otherwise they can just discuss everything before their power is gone which kinda defeats the purpose of making scum lose their QT.
Ehh that just means they, if scum, wouldn't be able to help advise their scum team direction during the night. Like who to NK. Who to attack. Plan things...etc etc. As well as obviously loose any PR they had.
I suppose also if we hit envoy majority early...that person would lose their vote today. Not too important. Nor likely to happen...Plus as someone I'm blanking mentioned about it interfering with VCA...that won't happen.
"ITT Benmage is making Shakespeare look cool. I need to bring you to my high school." -Vi
"If i must blantantly follow somone a player cannot do better than blindly following benmage" - tubby216
The BL case is good. The key arguments that I like are:
a. The has vote. I need to look at that closer to verify but that's pretty damning.
b. Name cop slip (?).
c. Vote fails.
If the earlier posts are like this, then I change my Ghost read to a town read rather then initially seen as scummy.
2. Note to self: Compare the ratio of fluff posts to content posts. The defense made me think of MD more then the game.
3. Magua: Leading into Day 2 pre flips, I assume you had a town read on Diddin?
4. I'm a bit of a sucker for frustrated posts. Hmmmmm... emotional anger is seeping through BLs defense. Possible positive feed back look of anger?
However to add: If you were following LAL and you caught Raiv lying, I'd expect a stronger conviction from BL. Self doubt isn't really a scum tell, it's just paranoia. Which is weird. But the constant attacks is revealing BL's thought process which I find kind of normal if you're frustrated. I'd say I agree with BL's statement about the circular logic in the face of that particular point. It gives her town points since emotional play is more of a townie characteristics (they are more emotionally invested in hunting scumz).
5. I like Magua's question to Thor. Taking the step to counter defenses is part of scum huntings. Lots of effort/work involved. Maguna gets town points for that.
6. I dislike Xvart because he attacks both Ghostlin and BL, but didn't take time to look at the full Ghostlin and BL interactions. This post is awful and makes me think that both addressed players are town while Xvart isn't really scum hunting. Xvart, considering that Ghostlin is attacking BL do you regard one of them to be scum or both?
Considering that you want to envoy one and vote the other, I get the impression you have scum reads on both. But their interactions suggest otherwise.
a. I'll concede though more context would help which is a fine point in the Ghostlin argument. Everything else is just parroting.
7. Uhhhh... huh. Progression of ideas = normal. Stretching the truth? Not normal. Thor, that's really self incriminating.
K that's it for today. Catchup later. Midtermz FTL
@DTM:
I would call it an almost scummy argument just because
good townies
wouldn't give up now with our strong lead.
Keyword is good townies.
I'm surprised that didn't cross my mind that Diddin didn't go after me nor that no one else pointed that out.
Would you then say that MoI is scum because he also acknowledge what Diddin said, but didn't go after me either?
Im confused on the "name cop slip"?
You'll note that if I don't agree with my lynch (their are times where I know it can't be helped that I have to be lynched because of my idiotness) that I get very frustrated and start typing in all caps.
