A Storm of Swords - Lay your swords down!

[Benmage]

I was only matching the times for ya. Showing that he found it a tactic to be slow to read when scum.

[hasdgfas]

Cow

Vote Sparkle then please. He is among the acceptable lynches...Your not seriously gonna try and be as stubborn as dana on this...surely you can see some of the benefit of what I am doing.

Tomorrow will be a different day.

Today...make better use of that vote.

*points at Benmage*
*pretends to drum*

*points at self*
*changes fake drumming rhythm*

[Eddard Stark]

An error in the last vote count has been fixed, it should have read Feysal has been prodded, instead of DTM, in fact Feysal has now been prodded.

[Benmage]

Cow

Vote Sparkle then please. He is among the acceptable lynches...Your not seriously gonna try and be as stubborn as dana on this...surely you can see some of the benefit of what I am doing.

Tomorrow will be a different day.

Today...make better use of that vote.

*points at Benmage*
*pretends to drum*

*points at self*
*changes fake drumming rhythm*

Great you beat to your own drum got it.

1) You find it logical to have me use my gov shot on BL today stopping you from lynching him anyways...instead of just waiting till tomorrow?
1a) Most people wont follow this logical fallacy and therefore your vote will sit idly and not be a benefit to the town.
2) You feel so strongly about position 1, that you can't bend the knee enough to help the town with direction to attack your 2nd strongest scum read...?

[Zdenek]

DGB, would you explain why you think that only townies were on the Raivann wagon?

Ghostlin, I know MoI asked this already, but I don't think you answered: in reference to nominating Raivann, what did you mean by

if she's town, then maybe we can get something out of the deal that's not a bunch of sheep votes.

Magua, I would like you to answer the question I directed to you in post 1049.
Ghostlin, same thing.

Just saying that they're my second-tier scumreads.
...

Second tier is kast/lmp/nexus/mikujin. Those are players without too much content/hard to read/gut pings. I'm not willing to call "you're scum" on any of them, but I expect that at least one of the four is going to end up scum and I'm keeping an alert eye as to which one.

I asked because I wanted to see if you were also suggesting that there is a connection between these players. Your phrasing of: I expect to find one scum in these four, when there is no connection between the players bothers me. It feels like you cared more about making a post that sounded as though you were scum hunting hard, rather than one that properly conveyed what you wanted to say.

The problem comes from the fact that Stark-scum are more likely to turn on the 3rd party wagon for easier lynches then town.

Please explain this sentence.

There is also this,

1. Ghost: Nvm I see you put a BL case up.

The BL case is good. The key arguments that I like are:
a. The has vote. I need to look at that closer to verify but that's pretty damning.
b. Name cop slip (?).
c. Vote fails.

If the earlier posts are like this, then I change my Ghost read to a town read rather then initially seen as scummy.
...
6. I dislike Xvart because he attacks both Ghostlin and BL, but didn't take time to look at the full Ghostlin and BL interactions. This post is awful and makes me think that both addressed players are town while Xvart isn't really scum hunting. Xvart, considering that Ghostlin is attacking BL do you regard one of them to be scum or both?

Vote Ghostlin,

You dislike Xvart for attacking both Ghostlin and BL, but you think that the BL case is good and you vote Ghostlin.

[Ghostlin]

DGB, would you explain why you think that only townies were on the Raivann wagon?

Ghostlin, I know MoI asked this already, but I don't think you answered: in reference to nominating Raivann, what did you mean by

if she's town, then maybe we can get something out of the deal that's not a bunch of sheep votes.

Sure, let me give you some posts that struck me from Raivann's iso; this is ISO 21:

@Didden- I've actually got a town read on you. Please put you're vote somewhere better.

Can we agree on anyone?

How about Feysal?

What's you're views on xvart?

"Hey Diddin, can we agree on a lynch together? What about these guys?" The other thing about it is you can have it directed entirely toward town as a whole. It sounds like he's fishing for a wagon to join, hence sheeping.

ISO 25:

As for my zoraster vote...

Raivann

Raivann, upon second inspection is scummy. I feel like he's going for a sort of "hit and run" post style that keeps him under the radar yet active. Without reviewing anything, can you remember anything Raivann has said or what his positions are? No? Me neither, and I just reread his iso. Pretty reluctant to vote

This is total BS. Can anyone ISO me and not know what my positions are? How am I reluctant to vote. What a crock.

One thing is for sure: the Hand should be picked by at least a large plurality. We can't let it be picked by 2 or 3 people.

This is duh, scummy.

I decided to check out the Raivann and Zoraster connection, and I found this:

This post was on Wed Feb 16, 2011 10:19 pm

Raivann
Raivann, upon second inspection is scummy. I feel like he's going for a sort of "hit and run" post style that keeps him under the radar yet active. Without reviewing anything, can you remember anything Raivann has said or what his positions are? No? Me neither, and I just reread his iso. Pretty reluctant to vote

From Wed Feb 16, 2011 10:51 pm

If there was a good case against Raivann, I don't recall seeing it. I isoed you to come across your vote on Raivann, but it's not like that was gold scum hunting. You are the only person to have voted him all game, so I don't really get where you're coming from.

Cognitive dissonance anyone?

Anyway I stopped my exercise of looking at how they could be related after this because I know which one I'd perfer to lynch.

Unvote
Vote Zoraster

This is a good point.

Highlight mine. To summarize Raivann's Zoa vote: 1) Gets insulted that Zoa's voting him for accusing him of hit and run posting without content, but doesn't refute that 'anyone that can read my ISO can tell what my opinons are.' OMGUS.
2) Points out that Zoa pointed out the obvious and tried to make it scummy. Yes, if you had more than just this, you'd have a point here. Here, it looks like you're trying too hard.
3) Then sheeps Zdenek (you) pretty much in a contradiction of terms post as part of his proof. OMGUS Baa.

ISO 30:

zoraster lynch is a go!

This is cheerleading without really having to help the cause.

These are examples of what I meant when I said sheeping.

[danakillsu]

@ Benmage
Did you reply to my request that you give your read on me in simple terms?

[Benmage]

@ Benmage
Did you reply to my request that you give your read on me in simple terms?

Oh, no I dont think so.. I've had you town tho since I gave my list on the playerbase.

It remains the same. The whole time I've been calling you town and trying to implore you to use your town vote in a more beneficial way for the town.

...lol...it should've been relatively obvious.

My basis for why you are town stems from post 1016.

[hasdgfas]

1) You find it logical to have me use my gov shot on BL today stopping you from lynching him anyways...instead of just waiting till tomorrow

2) You feel so strongly about position 1, that you can't bend the knee enough to help the town with direction to attack your 2nd strongest scum read...?

*looks at nominate count*
*looks at vote count*
*contemplates*

unvote, unnominate

*hesitates*

vote: Twilight Sparkle
nominate: Bunnylover

[Benmage]

See how nice it is working together.

[hasdgfas]

See how nice it is working together.

*shivers*

[xvart]

Xvart have you been drinking? I ask because it isn’t exactly top level Cryptography going in in 973. The colors tie to the mod provided flip colors.

An astute observation on your part that was actually correct. Thanks for the decryption.

Xvart: I am voting. I'm voting the person you find scummy enough to nominate. I don't acutally have two votes, or I'd vote them both.

Thank you. I missed/didn't connect your first post of the day where you voted, so everything after that point makes more sense in the context of your posts I quoted.

Unnominate

I originally voted Song because she wasn't posting and was browsing the forum. I think she had 1 post when I voted her.

Yes, but didn't you jump onto my wagon and then bail and go back to aSoIF slot which had nothing of contribution. You also identified Thor as scum here, which is more than your vote on the basis of non contribution. Your votes and explanations are not jiving. Thor had one post after replacing someone who flaked out; a post of "hi guyz. I'm going to do a honking post."

Where did you get your scum read and why was your vote only for not contributing? And do you have some sort of evidence to suggest that he was viewing the thread because his last post anywhere was the same day as his last post in this game. You never said anything to suggest this.

@Feysal, Ghostlin, Bunnylover:

Do you think diddin was bussing Raivann through most of D1?

I'll answer this since I still think it is possible that they might be on a team together. I'll have to go back and check to see when diddin started pushing Raivann because if it is early enough he could have thought the wagon wouldn't go anywhere (when compared to other wagons) or if it is late enough he could be hedging his bets and trying to buy some town cred if Raivann is a simple goon (compared to his tracker). It also isn't out of the question that Raivann could be self aligned SK. Raivann's failure to provide legitimate grounds for the aSoIF/Thor votes is incredibly untown.

On Raivann:
Contrary to what I think some people have indicated, diddin's Raivann vote isn't much of an indicator about Raivann's alignment, due to the fact that diddin is one of the leading wagons at the time. Shortly after Raivann votes Zoraster, which is about when the Zoraster wagon starts to gain steam, he states that he likes Zoraster as a Raivann buddy but that he'd rather lynch Raivann first; not sure whether a buddy would be so likely to say this, although I guess it would make sense from the perspective of having an easy candidate to fall back on once Raivann was lynched, and in the event that Zoraster is lynched first, this 'link' is then removed, giving diddin an excuse to drop the Raivann suspicion. I would say diddin also makes a real point of wanting to lynch Raivann first, which pings my scumdar. His later attack on Bunny which is coupled with a downgrading of the Raivann suspicion gives me a worse impression of the Raivann slot, as it really looks like diddin's already thinking about who to set up for D2's lynch and he uses Bunny's poor posting to basically drop his 'favoured' candidate way down his scumlist in the space of a few lines. I would say that diddin's approach to Raivann overall gives me a scummier read on that slot.

If the chronology here is correct then pushing on Raivann after zoraster gains steam is exactly what scum would want to do. Get a solid push on a buddy when the buddy won't be lynched. And I know diddin knows this because in CoK I was on a team with diddin and I pushed hard on danakillsu D1 (accidentally) and when dana flipped Lannister the next day I was given a lot of not-Lannister cred because of that push.

This is an unacceptable lynch for TODAY. Look elsewhere. We can reconsider it tomorrow. But for today he gets a pass. I've already said this. So either lynch me, or look into the many people I've listed for today. Otherwise this waste of fucking time is anti-town.

This is just nonsense to me. Any lynch that can be "reconsidered tomorrow" is not a "waste of fucking time" today. Nobody gets a pass.

I'll govern it yes. If you can't wait 1 day to lynch Raivann...and actually want me to use my govern ability on some shit like that...Than now would be the right time for you to claim scum.

Why would you govern someone that you would be open to lynching one day later?

I will elaborate. I initially thought DGB was scummy. However, the interaction with GreyICE and subsequence actions make DGB seem more townish to me.

How does the DGB interaction with GreyICE indicate alignment?

Then xvart in post 320 says, "To clarify, the only reason I self raised was because I was just trying to blend in." No reason for town to try to blend in.

I was referencing the previous game. I never self raised in this game.

6. I dislike Xvart because he attacks both Ghostlin and BL, but didn't take time to look at the full Ghostlin and BL interactions. This post is awful and makes me think that both addressed players are town while Xvart isn't really scum hunting. Xvart, considering that Ghostlin is attacking BL do you regard one of them to be scum or both?

At the time I wasn't ruling out either as scum, but now that I realized I missed a post by Ghostlin (which made the subsequent posts I referenced make more sense) I think it is likely that Ghostlin is town. I think bunnylover is scum.

Nominate: Raivann

[danakillsu]

@ Benmage
Did you reply to my request that you give your read on me in simple terms?

Oh, no I dont think so.. I've had you town tho since I gave my list on the playerbase.

It remains the same. The whole time I've been calling you town and trying to implore you to use your town vote in a more beneficial way for the town.

...lol...it should've been relatively obvious.

My basis for why you are town stems from post 1016.

Fine. Your internal consistency has earned my trust for now.

unvote

I hope to find another lynch candidate within the week.

[Raivann]

Xvart- You're questions have become tiresome and boring.

[Eddard Stark]

Vote count 2.9

Raivann (1) Feysal

Twilight Sparkle (6) Magua, MagnaofIllusion, Benmage, Raivann, Zdenek, Hasdgfas

Bunnylover (1) Ghostlin
Setael (1) DrippingGoofball
danakillsu (1) Kast
Ghostlin (2) xvart, DTMaster
Thor665 (5) Twilight Sparkle, Locke Lamora, Shadow1psc, Nexus, Bunnylover
Feysal (2) LynchMePls, Setael


Not voting (2) Thor665, Danakillsu

With 21 alive it takes 11 to lynch. No majority at deadline and there'll be no lynch.

Envoy to the Eyrie

[/u]

Setael (1) Magua

Bunnylover (5) Danakillsu, MagnaofIllusion, LynchMePls, Nexus, hasdgfas

Raivann (3) Bunnylover, Ghostlin, xvart
Zdenek (1) Kast
Danakillsu (1) Twilight Sparkle
Thor665 (2) Zdenek, Benmage
Nexus (2) Raivann, Setael
xvart (1) DTMaster


Not nominating (5) Shadow1psc, DrippingGoofball, Locke Lamora, Thor665, Feysal

With 21 alive it takes 11 to sent someone to the Eyrie

* Feysal has been prodded
* Kast is on V/la. As is Ghostlin.
* Any mistakes in the VC point them out
*The deadline is two weeks and can be found here.

[Shadow1psc]

I'm here. This game moves at an intimidating speed, with quite a lot of players, but it feels like I'm just watching the same 5 people talk. I don't like how Benmage, unconfirmed, was both given governor and is now leading lynches, outright denying lynches of admittedly scummy candidates/players. I get that we shouldn't end day early and we need to promote discussion, but that doesn't mean we also can't grill the people we find most suspicious, and that they shouldn't be ruled out as lynch candidates. You're saying a lot we can save them for tomorrow while prodding other people to lynch, but again, why wouldn't we be bringing them to the forefront and dealing with them now, or at least concurrently? Direction is fine, but no one is confirmed. Hascow is the closest we've got (scum dayvig? I doubt it), and LL looks decent enough simply because of Zoraster.

Sorry, but this all stems from 'Raivann still looks bad', and I think needs much more pressure without hiding behind an equal/opposing lynch like day 1.

[Nexus]

Xvart- You're questions have become tiresome and boring.

Aka he's asked you a difficult one and you don't want to answer it for fear of looking scummy?

Xvart: I find anyone who gets that het up about personal attacks and suchlike has, in my experience, mostly been town. So, it's going from general experience on the site. No doubt you're about to tell me I'm completely wrong, but eh, what can I say?

mod: I'm still sick. It's not going away. Still semi-v/la until Monday because I have real life things to do as well. I should then be completely better.

[Raivann]

Yeah, thats it. It's not because DTMaster voted his townread.

[Twilight Sparkle]

This is Mina-head checking in, although I'm still not caught up and hate Mafia right now. And given the position I've found ourselves in, I feel overwhelmed and as though I'm fighting on a hundred different fronts. I'm not sure if I should be combing through ISOs looking for connections to diddin, or answering every single point that anyone has made against us.

But first, I am going to rant, because in my current mood, I find it much more therapeutic to call you all nasty names than reread fifty pages.

Okay. I think some of the points against us are reasonable, while others are ridiculous. (For example, WTF? How is hitogoroshi correcting LMP on who killed whom a scummy defence of Feysal? What kind of reaction was LMP even looking for from Feysal? Scum!Feysal would KNOW diddin wasn't the Stark kill, duh.) But I will be honest and say that I can see why we're drawing some heat. Yes, we've been scattered and slow to move votes, we didn't particularly attack any of the flipped scum, we haven't been a protown driving force, and we've been struggling to catch up for most of the game. And sorry, hito, but I actually see Magna's point on Shadow, because I don't agree with the psychology of newb!scum being MORE likely to be controversial than newb!town.

However, the next person who says, "A Sotty, Mina, and hitogoroshi hydra would be MUCH more protown than this" gets throttled through their computer screen.

If you read the sign-up thread, you'll know I wasn't even supposed to be playing now. Sotty and hito invited me into their hydra as a glorified cheerleader only because I've been looking forward to this game for months and was unhappy to miss it. I knew that if I actually played, I'd only have time to skim the thread for the first month or so. The bulk of my contributions was supposed to be an occasional post in the hydra QT. It is fucking unfair to penalize them because my name is in the sig, under the logic that three non-VIs > two > one.

Unfortunately, we've learned the hard way that believe it or not, a hydra composed of three time-strapped players is not a hybrid monster player who's greater than the sum of its parts. It's just three time-strapped players who have to check everything with each other before they can make a move. Part of this is time constraints, and part of this is because the three of us are too similar.

As a result, we've been a bit scattered in our suspicions on D1. I'll write, "Let's vote Kast, because his first post is scummy fluff!" in the QT, and Sotty will say, "What do you mean? I totally agree with him on the Hand and policy lynches, so he's my BFF." And then we all go, "Oh, shit, I can't vote until you agree with me," and then things stagnate, because we're all so behind that we don't have a full picture of the game, and no one is confident enough in a read to push it. And by the time we can decide on a compromise vote, the conversation has moved on.

The ironic thing is that I personally would have been bolder in moving my vote had I actually BEEN scum, because I could confidently push any logical-sounding case without worrying if it contradicted my other heads' reads.

That said, scum can also use being a hydra as an excuse to fence-sit. We should not be given a free pass, because it's our responsibility to pull our slot's weight. But sadly, this is the reality of a hydra composed of three slow and deliberate players who are struggling to catch up. All we can do is try to be more cohesive from now on, so that you aren't forced to lynch us eventually for being unreadable.

So all the lazy paranoia over Sotty-hito-Mina being scummy for not being the towniest player in the game is really getting on my nerves. hito put a shitload of effort into his ISO extravaganza posts while two of us were away, and I feel terrible for him that people are reading them with scum-coloured glasses. All of us are frustrated that we don't have the time and energy to play this game at our top level--which was the whole reason we're hydra-ing in the first place.

[Twilight Sparkle]

It's after 5 AM, so I'm too tired to answer all the outstanding questions to us. This is just a grab bag of general comments:

Re: Thor, I've said this on D1, but I'm baffled at his attitude regardless of his alignment. This wasn't his playstyle upon replacing in for either Zachtown in the Mountains OR ACoK. For the record, he said in the scum QT for Zachtown that he was deliberately mimicking his town replacement methodology. So I can believe that he's having a bad game as scum and doesn't have the energy to maintain the charade.

That said, something in Thor's defence. I agree with hito that scum are somewhat more likely to jump right in before being caught up than town are. That's exactly what I did in DEFCON 2.0, after only reading the game thread once. Like hito said, you feel naked for posting as town when you're not caught up.

BUT I remember that in ACOK, Thor voted after having read up to Page 10, simply because he had a town read on one of the wagons and decided to sheep his other two town reads on the other. So I don't think his incomplete/anachronic approach to catching up alone is a scumtell.

For the record, the most likely scum on my wagon is Zdenek (will explain more in another post), but I see-saw back and forth on Magna because the towntells and the scumtells counterbalance each other. (And yes, I have been probing you to see what turns up, because that's what townies do to players they're unsure of; hell, 90% of my town game is asking random people questions. What happened to treating every player who BUDDIED you as a scumtell?) I'm actually wavering on Raivann, not just because of his interactions with diddin but because he's been showing the occasional genuine stab at scumhunting--if this isn't multiscum, then he's unusually competent.

I'm currently bickering with hito on AIM about Bunnylover. (No, don't ask why either of us are up, now.) I think one of Nexus/Bunnylover is probably scum regardless of Thor's alignment. Hito is trying to sell me on his theory (of which I'm somewhat sceptical) that diddin was bussing Raivann and trying to frame zoraster, and wouldn't have called BL on making the Raiv wagon look scummy were they partners. I personally think that if anything, that makes BL more likely and Raiv less likely Stark, but I'll reread diddin myself to make my own mind.

I can barely keep my eyes open right now, so I won't elaborate more on these reads. I have actual answers to Magna/Zdenek/Benmage's posts (such as why our vote stayed on Shadow for so long), but I'll save them for another day. hito says he may get around to some of them as well.

[Twilight Sparkle]

(Oh, and obviously, the above two posts were from Mina, in case someone has no ability whatsoever to spot posting styles.)

~Mina

[Twilight Sparkle]

Alright, starting from 1075 and sculling through five pages to see what I can find. No guarantees I'll hit everything - requote if I missed something.

Spoiler: Ben 1099 gets its own Spoiler tag

**1. As Magua and MoI and I have said they aren't nearly the full frontal town force you'd expect from this three-headed monster.

Already covered, multiple times. This is not all three of us at our best at once. This hydra was a specific creation to let us play when we know we couldn't come in with our A game. As it turns out, Sotty got sick and I got busy turning the projected 2x B game to a 2x D game, but expecting 3x A is just silly. If we were charging in at 100%, we'd be three separate slots.

2. They being experienced...Plagiarized my sentiments on the governor...its weak..no strong stance needed on this...despite placing a town read on me they never raised me.

How was my stance not strong? I think governor is a bad role, and it's probably best used by trashing it. As Hand, I would hold on to it because people wanted it to "get reads", but my inclination is that I would never use it.

We didn't give you hand despite the town read. This is because we were worried you were going to try to be a bad-ass hero with it (see ISO 30) by doing shit like - well, like you're doing. (Even if all of the scum are on your "to lynch" list, it's still not a good idea to decree that some people are vote-immune.)

3. Minor bickering with MoI on fluff regarding me did appear like undermining as MoI suggested.

*shrug* delegating this one away to whoever actually got in with MoI about it. I think it was Mina and I think she mentioned it in the vein of "of course I'm asking questions", but I'm not gonna bend over backwards verifying.

4. Way to much non-confrontational coastage.

At least in my personal case, my biggest scumread was ASOIAF, and she flaked from the game. True point I should've had more than one scumspect. Truth is about half of the names just ran together in my head until I actually sat down and ISO'd every goddamn one.

**5. Ding Ding Ding. In 1016 I illustrate how scum reacted to Zor's claim. You can reference diddin's reaction and match it up nicely with Sparkles.

dindin posted words and was scum. Benmage, you're posting words as well. You're scum.

I see no reason to pussyfoot around voting for people who are obviously fakeclaiming.

Are you fucking kidding me. I am s.p.e.l.l.i.n.g. out how to act town here.

(that's the problem)

Hito, STFU and let him answer. Your defense of him before he could even respond is noted.

Scum are less likely to realize that scum would not kill members of their own faction. True or false?

Twilight, response to my response of your post?

You said you were feeling overwhelmed but would catch up. Either you will or you won't. No need to respond until I see which.

I don't think I've seen a case from you, just you saying "if Satael is town, dana is prob-scum".

Why would I need a case?

2)Are you suggesting that Chesskid was the Stark kill?

yeah obviously Brynden Tully was the stark kill, STUPID FEYSAL

-hito

nominate: Twilight Sparkle

Scum are less likely to realize that scum would not kill members of their own faction. *nods* or *shakes head*?

Raivann is not diddin's partner. Raivann is not Stark. I'm pleased that Benmage took her lynch off the table for today, because the amount of people who are for her lynch despite the Raivann/diddin interaction D1 is mindboggling. Ghostlin will reply with something about bussing. Their interaction does not read like bussing, is what I'm saying.

I disagree. I think there's a definite chance that their interaction was a bus.

It's already too late/early (class in four and a half hours...homework due for said class and not done) so I'll just give my favorite bit: When dindin left the Raivann wagon, he said it was because zorasters fakeclaim was bad AND because "bunnylovers vote was bad, less sure about Raivann being scum". zorasters fakeclaim is bad enough that both town and scum can vote him with impunity. So, if Raivann is town, why go to the trouble to burn bridges on your town mislynch? Occam says: because you don't want to go back over the river at all. zoraster was a strong enough PULLING force for a vote; to pick out a stooge and implicate them as a PUSHING force in addition to this suggests to me that Raivann is scum and the stooge (Bunnylover) is town.

While skimming the posts at work on my phone today ,I couldn't see name or avatars because I zoomed in, I read something and I was like"damn who's this scumbag..."

Magua
He's a very deliberate player. His posts march in sequence like neat little soliders. Reading his ISO, it's really quite remarkable. He flows from thinking about governor to thinking about the vig to pushing zoraster, 1-2-3. It's a very good style for town to have, but unfortunately, it's also a good style for scum to choose (if they can muster the energy – it's hard to do) because a.) it looks hella town and b.) it lets you march off your fake thoughts in easy sequence.

That being said, in my limited (MoCo) meta experience, he posts like this as town, and he's looking pretty solidly town here as well. I will say that as scum, it's an easier style that most to fake looking town with, and depending on how the next couple days pan out it might be worth revisiting Magua-scum. But, as with MoI, we have too much tempo to bother with testing “what if pro-town high activity player x is a scum mastermind”.

This analysis seems like it's coming from a scum perspective. " Oh, I'm scumhunting and he's town but I'm gonna try and plant a seed of doubt in town because Benmage and Magua are scary."

So, no justification for the vote when you gave it, but when asked by Magua you respond "Gee, Magua, my biggest problem with Twilight is that when he has a town read on you he doesn't have it HARD ENOUGH."

Spoiler: MoI 1170 gets a spoiler block too!

My suspicion begins with the Shadow vote. It appeared as a simple early bandwagon vote but when questioned on it TS attempts to justify it by saying that inexperienced scum tend to be argumentative and aggrevating on purpose. That explanation doesn’t make sense and the justification is defense beyond what was necessary at that juncture.

Not quite argumentative. It wasn't a true argument, it was just random trolling, and I'm of the mindset (apparently the only one) that scum are more primed to be unhelpful to the town and thus more likely to troll.

I over-justified it because if I was right lots of pressure out of nowhere would make shadow-scum slip.

But yes, it did languish overly long. I wanted to gauge shadows reaction, but it should've switched sooner. There just wasn't a good mutual scumspect that anyone felt comfortable moving to.

The post in question by ASOIAF was on page 9. By this point Benmage has at least 20 posts and they certainly don’t all revolve around policy lynching. It’s a misrepresentation to say that ASOIAF liking Benmage’s multiple posts means she must support policy lynches on VIs and not knowing what one is means she’s contradictory.

They didn't all support policy lynches, but that is his main stand. Take out the policy lynching and there isn't much to Ben at that point; certainly not enough to explain liking his posts. The contradiction isn't that she must support policy lynches on VI's; the contradiction is that missing that information, she shouldn't have found Benmage to be townie and raise-worthy.

I’m not overly impressed with the ISO spectacular catch-up posts – there is lots of careful positioning language in those posts (example – Locke is pretty much confirmed Town but could be a Serial Killer) that I see as high level and well disguised fence-sitting.

It's not fence sitting, it's lack of omniscience. Locke is pretty much confirmed town, although he could be a serial killer. We'll be able to make a better judgement as the game goes on. Do you think differently?

I also find the “MoI is the Anti-Spyrex” explanation that hito finds my playstyle inherently scummy as a possible way for the hydra to move off the suspicion that Sotty and Mina have indicated.

I said that I'm mostly deferring the read of you to those two. If you think that it was the first act of a drifting away from the stated suspicion, why the hell didn't you wait to see what Sotty/Mina posted?

I asked because I wanted to see if you were also suggesting that there is a connection between these players. Your phrasing of: I expect to find one scum in these four, when there is no connection between the players bothers me. It feels like you cared more about making a post that sounded as though you were scum hunting hard, rather than one that properly conveyed what you wanted to say.

It did properly convey what I wanted to say. There is a list of four people, and I expect that at least one of them will be scum. Nothing about connections, as can be clearly divined by reading the relevant ISO's. I don't know how you managed to misread it, but it's pretty unambiguous.

Fine. Your internal consistency has earned my trust for now. unvote

Why did you unvote here?

Sorry for that wall.

-hito

[DrippingGoofball]

Twilight Sparkle is town.

[Benmage]

DGB see if you can actually do less this game.

I'll address that AtE wall later tonight when I get outta work....it was fun being sick.

[Locke Lamora]

Twilight Sparkle is town.

DrippingGoofball is scum. Are you ever actually going to clarify why you downgraded your suspicion of me at the point you did and not after Zoraster's claim and flip?