Mini 1121: Nexusville Mafia.

[Setael]

@Setael: While I agree that lynching Saint could provide us with a lot of information—a Saint town flip would force me to rethink a number of my reads—you’re putting a vote on player without actually saying why you think that player is scum. The closest you get is saying that your reasons for not wagoning Saint weren’t that strong. If you think Saint is scum, why? If you don’t think he is scum, then why are you voting for him?

Good point. I should've elaborated on that.

This post is the first one of Saint's that gave me scum vibes:

With two townie deaths, and myself being a townie, perhaps it is best to massclaim at this point, as our power roles will begin to be sniped otherwise. I am completely for this.

In terms of who we should lynch, I believe we should follow InflatablePie's logic of either me or EMPKING today.
Therefore,

vote: EMPKING

He also gave a FoS of zdenek we should look into with his last post.

I don't like AT ALL that he starts D1 voting a claimed mason and his reason is "because Pie said we should lynch either me or Empking, so I guess it should be empking". Wha? Nothing has changed from yesterday's good reasons to not be voting a claimed mason except that the wagon we switched to ended up being a townie. I don't see townies voting empking right now. At all. I also don't like the suggestion to mass claim. Scum is likely frustrated they hit vanilla last night. They don't want that to happen again tonight. Of course they want a mass claim. Scummiest idea ever.

Yesterday, everything that was pointed out about Saint as a reason to lynch him I could see a townie doing. The main argument was that the way he replaced in was scummy which I never thought was a good reason since I can definitely see a townie replacing in and addressing the negative attention on their slot. And if it was in several posts, so? I don't see town being more motivated than scum to post in an organized way. And then I got a town vibe from most of his posts and a scum vibe from his wagon. Well turns out 2 of those on his wagon were townies so either 2-3 of the others were scum, or my Saint read was probably wrong. If 4-5 townies agree on someone being scummy, likely I'm the one whose read is wrong. So basically, Saint's flip will give me a much better idea of who I can trust.

[ICEninja]

@ICE: Has your read on Emp changed? IIRC, you were pretty against lynching him on D1, but #620 is the second time already on D2 that you’ve expressed (unprompted) suspicion of Emp.

I never said I wasn't suspicious of him, I just said that lynching him was a bad idea. I feel like I've made my point fairly clear in saying that I want to wait until day 3 or so, at which point it is much safer for a mason buddy to clear him, or for a cop to claim. Should Emp be cleared at day 3, that forces scum to decide who to night kill during nights 3 and 4, and forcing them to night kill Emp, which is good because then they aren't night killing a townie player.

Alternatively if he's scum, no one is going to be clearing him during day 3, as it is too early for scum to claim mason partner, as a cop investigate would result in netting us 2 scum. Therefore I feel it is pretty safe that we decide his fate during day 3.

As I said in my first post of the day, none of my reads really changed much. I still think an Emp lynch should wait, I still think implosion and Saint are scum, I still think you and Nameless are town. I had a null read on Pie, so I didn't mind him being NKed. I probably won't be changing any of those 5 reads unless a cop comes out and says something. At this point I'm assuming that we aren't going to have a cop claim day 2.

I understand Setael's reasons for voting Saint, but considering you had a town read on him yesterday, doesn't it seem sort of sudden to switch to a Saint vote based on what you just said? You're essentially supporting an information lynch.

I think I know who I'm going to be suspicious of now if Saint flips town.

[Setael]

unvote, vote: Iceninja

You've always been my #1 scum read, and I still think it was highly scummy that you jumped from finding Saint "mildly scummy" to being ready to lynch him within minutes. Your last post just cemented it (and also made me pretty sure you know Saint is town).

I understand Setael's reasons for voting Saint, but considering you had a town read on him yesterday, doesn't it seem sort of sudden to switch to a Saint vote based on what you just said? You're essentially supporting an information lynch.

I think I know who I'm going to be suspicious of now if Saint flips town.

This is so scummy. You start with "I understand Setael's reasons..." You have to say this of course because 10 minutes after I voted Saint you posted this:

Alright, I like the reasons for voting Saint. I'm on board.

Unvote, vote Saint

.

So how can you like my reasons for voting Saint and understand my reasons and yet think all my reasons boil down to an information lynch? You didn't express ANY suspicion of my Saint vote until after Darth did and then you give a post that is very obvious a "

Oh yeah, this is actually a good way to throw some suspicion at Setael. Why didn't I think of that?! Ah well, it's not too late!

" So then you set up lynches by stating you'll be suspicious of me if Saint flips town. That'll put the town in a great position - if Saint's town then scum NK a townie, the next day we mislynch me, the next night scum kill a townie and we have 6 dead townies before the town gets another chance to vote.

You're scum. I backed off because there was zero support so I started doubting my read, but I'm not backing off this time. You're today's lynch.

[Swiftstrike]

Ice I just read your above statement four times and I still don't understand it, please explain

I never said I wasn't suspicious of him, I just said that lynching him was a bad idea. I feel like I've made my point fairly clear in saying that I want to wait until day 3 or so, at which point it is much safer for a mason buddy to clear him, or for a cop to claim. Should Emp be cleared at day 3, that forces scum to decide who to night kill during nights 3 and 4, and forcing them to night kill Emp,

which is good because then they aren't night killing a townie player.

because reading the underlined you seem to suggest that scum killing EMP night 3 is them killing a non town player, in which case EMP is not town now, could you please explain this and why this then means he shouldn't be voted for now?

--
DarthYoshi

post 610

Swift replacing in and immediately saying that he doesn't like that

Empking was insinuating that he his is scum buddy

was anti-town, and it bothers me.
--Cut--

No I said I didn't like him insinuating I was his mason partner (as he had claimed Mason), so scum slip much there.

taken from Zdenek post 610

Zdenek post here talks about Empking being a scum buddy rather than a mason, now Zdenek offered his explanation as to why he said what he said but it is rather a strange switch of words to make here so I'm keeping my vote on for the moment. As to me it reads as him slipping that EMP is scum and Zdenek is his scum buddy (hence the addition of a FOS on EMP) and possibly in the post I pulled above there is looking like another something in reference to EMP.

[ICEninja]

you jumped from finding Saint "mildly scummy" to being ready to lynch him within minutes.

I did, hmm? How about we take a look at every single post I've made during day 2 so far:

Saint still looks like a fair lynch too, but I'm still favoring implosion. If implosion flips scum, I'm probably going to barrel down on Saint until he's dead, due to their day 1 interactions leading a connection that runs even deeper than Saint's scummy play.

We shouldn't be looking in to implosion because Saint and implosion are scum buddies, remember? Saint was actually on the implosion wagon, pushing quite hard, but fell off that wagon once town was distracted and never looked back. Coincidence? I think not.

Alright I reread nameless. He's pretty town. And he's probably right about Saint (who I believe is a likely scum buddy with implosion). I'm definitely not going to be voting Nameless today unless there is some significant information I missed. He was dead right about the mb wagon that sprung up. Sure mb wasn't the most town player, but he wasn't implosion.

Both Saint and implosion were on the mb wagon. He was the easiest non Saint/implosion person for scum to wagon, so this further supports my theory.

Alright, I like the reasons for voting Saint. I'm on board

So I went from thinking he's mildly scummy to being ready to lynch him in minutes? He went from being scum I wanted to lynch tomorrow to scum I want to lynch today. Big difference.

Yes, I agree that you HAVE reasons for lynching him (information is always good to have), but considering you had a TOWN read on him yesterday, the reasons you gave to justify voting him were bad. Basically, I liked your vote, but not your reasons for it.

Now your vote for me is bad and OMGUS.
Saint/implosion is still a better lynch though.

[Nameless]

Wow, Setael. You kinda wimped on that bussing attempt pretty quickly, huh?

Seriously though, 'oh, 4-5 townies couldn't possibly be wrong!' ... is wrong, and a terrible excuse for shifting your vote. Especially since you misrepresented the case against Saint (there was much more too it) and defended his D1 play

in the same post

, and then immediately leaping back OFF the bandwagon to attack ICEninja who you claim has always been your #1 scum read despite having clearly been pushing for my lynch with no real mention of ICE during the last week of D1 or your opening D2 post.

If this sounds at all familiar, remember Setael started mb53's wagon in a similar manner; suddenly swearing mb53 was really his scummiest player despite not mentioning him for a while.

[KingTwelveSixteen]

Ice I just read your above statement four times and I still don't understand it, please explain

I never said I wasn't suspicious of him, I just said that lynching him was a bad idea. I feel like I've made my point fairly clear in saying that I want to wait until day 3 or so, at which point it is much safer for a mason buddy to clear him, or for a cop to claim. Should Emp be cleared at day 3, that forces scum to decide who to night kill during nights 3 and 4, and forcing them to night kill Emp,

which is good because then they aren't night killing a townie player.

because reading the underlined you seem to suggest that scum killing EMP night 3 is them killing a non town player, in which case EMP is not town now, could you please explain this and why this then means he shouldn't be voted for now?
...

I concur with this question, and I also throw in some suspicion of scumbuddyness on Ice/Emp.

[implosion]

Sorry, still really busy, posting to avoid prod >.>. I'll make a large content-filled possibly wall post tomorrow or thursday, whichever i can find time to.

[Saint]

I don't believe we should be mass claiming at this point after all day ones are more likely wrong lynches and we lost one player at night which should basically be expected so I don't see the dire need to mass claim

Saint would you explain why you see the need for us to mass claim?

considering two townie deaths, and the fact i'm a townie, it would really benefit the town to get all our cards out on the table, to properly lynch between counterclaims/the townie pool

EVERYONE needs to claim for this to work.

So as I was saying, VOTE: Saint and let's maybe not let the scum derail us this time.

More convincing post tomorrow when I'm not sleepy. Just for now: Saint is fishing for power roles to NK plus his sudden agreement with InflatablePie is kinda suss (but WIFOMy, yeah) or at least lazy. The statement we "need something to work with" is false and an attempt to handwave away his bad play D1 (wall of unacknowledged accusations etc). And Setael's attack on me for 'knowing' mb53 was town is still BS, the scum maneuvering was pretty obvious and I explained how I reached my assumption.

Are you scum, or terrible as town?
You have sheeped, bandwagonned, and even reading this post makes me realize how stretched out you are this game. Why so out of it, Nameless?

Though I despise Saint's last post I'm still leaning town. Nameless at the end of D1 pips King for the scummiest player.

Vote: Nameless

Well, I guess IPie was wrong. Nothing unusual there, he's terrible.

unvote; vote: nameless

guy loves to bandwagon, doesn't he? He also has been really wishy washy on who he wants to lynch (anyone other than him)

Swiftstrike:

I don't believe we should be mass claiming at this point after all day ones are more likely wrong lynches and we lost one player at night which should basically be expected so I don't see the dire need to mass claim

Saint would you explain why you see the need for us to mass claim?

^ This.

Saint is pretty blatantly rolefishing--a massclaim isn't going to help protect PRs in the slightest, and besides, as Set pointed out, a VT drew the NK, which tells me that the scum faction either hasn't picked up on any PR reads, or that their PR reads are incorrect. So I don't see the urgency either, and am finding said urgency fairly manufactured, honestly.

My top two suspects remain Implosion and Saint. I didn't much like Imp's vote of Mb53, it had wagonhopping written all over it, and when pressed by Mb, Implosion basically concedes sheeping his vote because:

Implosion

Like ISOs 34-36, they're all really vapid. That trend continues through his recent posting. There's just really little new information, a lot of restating what he's already said. That's basically it.

Gonna go ahead and say it--pot, meet kettle. (and as an obligatory pre-empt to the "Mb flipped town, doesn't that mean Imp will flip town too?" argument, Mb then put his vote on Implosion, who had little chance of being seen as an 'easy lynch,' so while their behavior was similar, their voting patterns weren't, and right now, that is what I am really finding demonstrably scummy about Implosion.)

Vote: Implosion.

But I would be quite content with a Saint lynch as well. They're practically neck-and-neck right now.

I would consider joining you on implosion...
I was not rolefishing, I honestly want to create counterclaims, or a lynchpool from "townies"

Yeah, things haven't changed my mind much. We still really need to be lynching implosion. I'll take a good hard look at Nameless's end of day 1 play, however. If that comes up fishy, then I might be inclined to suspect him.

I'm still a bit worried about Empking, but if he's scum then he is guaranteed going to die before the game is over so he isn't a huge priority for me right now.

Saint still looks like a fair lynch too, but I'm still favoring implosion. If implosion flips scum, I'm probably going to barrel down on Saint until he's dead, due to their day 1 interactions leading a connection that runs even deeper than Saint's scummy play.

If implosion is town, however, I'm not sure where I'll go from there.

How could you want me lynched if implosion is scum? I would lynch his ass so fast. He is my #2 candidate right now behind nameless. I knew there would be a wagon on me, so I tried to be protown, but I guess you guys don't know what that really means.

I'm liking Neko and Zdenek's posts right after this one.

Saint remains a good lynch for these reasons:

* Upon replacing in, Saint very quickly and very obviously buddied up to several of the more townie players, then wondered out loud why they would vote him when he considers them town. Yet he later attacked mb53 for buddying.
* Saint's catch-up included significant hostility towards players who voted based on lurking - a heavyhanded attempt to dissuade players from bringing up his replacee.
* During his catch-up, Saint contradicted himself over mongoose's meta while shifting his predesecor's vote off mongoose.
* Saint accused Neko of being an SK with very little reasoning, then claimed to change his mind later without answering any questions from multiple players regarding the accusation.
* Saint's accusations in general have been very stretched, including accusing Neko of a scumslip for weak semantics and attacking mb53 for asking another player to explain themselves.
* Saint's only posts close to a defense are vague accusations that other players are pushing the easiest wagon or ignoring the meat of the argument, without any clarification.
* Saint ongoingly refuses to acknowledge virtually every accusation and question directed at him.
* Saint several times during the end of D1 promised another catch-up and serious scumhunting attempt, but never followed through.
* Saint claimed to be playing by staying out of the spotlight until needing to defend himself, but didn't defend himself when wagoned and even cried 'go ahead and lynch me' rather than do so. When called on this, he handwaved that he was shifting his playstyle and acted as if being suicidal was good townie play.
* Saint began D2 by fishing for power roles, and pretending that all of D1 was nothing to work with.

I don't see how I buddied anyone. I just went with my gut reads off replacing. I don't see how I antagonized lurking, but if I did, it was probably because I have been playing on Epic Mafia more... hence why I'm trying to create counterclaims, and a lynch pool, as I view that as a very proper way to play town now.
I did not contradict myself. Show me this.
I was gauging Neko's reaction. At the time, I had an SK role offsite, and I noticed similarities between my play as an SK and a post he made.
MY accusations have been stretched? you are a wolf in sheep's clothing!
I'm totally ignoring your case on me here. YOU'RE SO RIGHT. I'm not even defending myself.
Joke.
Um... I'm here... and I'm voting scum, you.
Yeah, I only say "I'm staying out of the spotlight" when I am a townie. Guess what I am here? Especially since I replaced in, and I don't have a 100% feel of this thread, being a townie... of course I'm not gonna spotlight.
Do you even know how to play this game as town? I guess you don't have to worry about that this game.
I wasn't "fishing" for power roles. I'm FISHING FOR A GOOD LYNCH.
I've changed my mind, though. I don't need a massclaim to lynch scum, and when you flip, I'll be clear.

Well, I guess IPie was wrong. Nothing unusual there, he's terrible.

Vote: Nameless

[/quote]

[Saint]

Alright I reread nameless. He's pretty town. And he's probably right about Saint (who I believe is a likely scum buddy with implosion). I'm definitely not going to be voting Nameless today unless there is some significant information I missed. He was dead right about the mb wagon that sprung up. Sure mb wasn't the most town player, but he wasn't implosion.

Both Saint and implosion were on the mb wagon. He was the easiest non Saint/implosion person for scum to wagon, so this further supports my theory.

OK
this guy is namelesses partner

[Nexus]

Votecount the Eighteenth:

Saint (3): nameless, KingTwelveSixteen, ICEninja
nameless (3): Empking, Zdenek, Saint
implosion (1): Darth Yoshi
Zdenek (1): Swiftstrike
ICEninja (1): Setael

Not voting: neko2086, implosion

With 11 alive it takes 6 to lynch. The deadline is at 9am (GMT) on the 21st March 2011.

Finally, I'm invoking the right to edit rules, and as such am changing the prod-limit from 72 hours and then 72 hours to post to 72 hours until a prod, and then 48 hours to respond before you are replaced. If anyone has a problem with that, let me know.

[Nameless]

Finally, Saint reacts!

You have sheeped, bandwagonned, and even reading this post makes me realize how stretched out you are this game.

Give examples, give examples and explain why they are scummy, and explain why that post was scummy. Respectively.

guy loves to bandwagon, doesn't he? He also has been really wishy washy on who he wants to lynch (anyone other than him)

No reasoning given here either.

How could you want me lynched if implosion is scum? I would lynch his ass so fast.

Saint, you express this kind of sentiment quite often and seem very determined that the scum haven't been and won't bus each other. Any particular reason?

Your list of answers to my list of reasons to lynch you is a little unreadable. Several of your paragraphs don't directly match up to any of the reasons, you miss at least one reason entirely (the 2nd), and I'm not even sure what your "Joke." line is supposed to be responding to. Please make them clearer next time. Meanwhile,

I don't see how I buddied anyone.

Does it make sense to you, then, that IceNinja is my best town read?

DarthYoshi's post at the top of 5, #101 I believe, is nearly perfect. Wonderful post, sir. Very glad that you are on my team this game, again, considering our last game together was a flawless win. Lets keep up the good work.

I completely agree with [Zdenek]. It is nice to see the town suspecting the same people I am suspecting.

Q.E.D.

I did not contradict myself. Show me this.

I also like your pressure of mongoose. Guy seriously lurks as scum!

Also, I've seen mongoose as scum in a mountainous game (modded by sotty7), and this was NOT his scum play.

DarthYoshi pointed this out ages ago.

MY accusations have been stretched? you are a wolf in sheep's clothing!

So instead of eg. defending or explaining the accusations I quote, you choose to attack me ... and

still

without any examples or reasoning.

I'm totally ignoring your case on me here. YOU'RE SO RIGHT. I'm not even defending myself.

Sarcasm isn't a defense, and this remains literally the first post you have started to do so. This despite saying you WOULD come out of the spotlight if you needed to defend yourself (and being wagoned during D1).

Yeah, I only say "I'm staying out of the spotlight" when I am a townie.

This isn't going to convince anyone. The frequency with which you needlessly reiterate you are townie in lieu of explaining your actions is scummy in itself.

[ICEninja]

There is so much wrong with Saint's last post, I'm feeling pretty confident of this one.

considering two townie deaths, and the fact i'm a townie, it would really benefit the town to get all our cards out on the table, to properly lynch between counterclaims/the townie pool

It also tells scum who to night kill. For the rest of the game.

EVERYONE needs to claim for this to work.

I assure you that you will not get support for this from everyone.

Well, I guess IPie was wrong. Nothing unusual there, he's terrible.

What? Your entire reasoning for voting who you voted at the beginning of day 2 was you sheeping Pie. Now you're saying "oh he was wrong and terrible" without any actual new information added to the table. You've COMPLETELY undermined your own previous vote. This would actually benefit scum Saint, as Pie pointed you as a good lynch candidate, too. I think he was dead on the money about that.

He also has been really wishy washy on who he wants to lynch (anyone other than him)

Ahem. Pot, kettle, black, etc. Scum love to point out their flaws in other people. The mistakes are easier for them to see. I do this as scum, and I've caught scum on this before.

I would consider joining you on implosion...

Let me show town exactly what you're ACTUALLY saying:

How could you want me lynched if implosion is scum? I would

lynch

bus

his ass so fast. He is my

#2 candidate right now behind nameless

back up lynch to gain town cred if things go wrong

. I knew

there would be a wagon on me

town caught me

, so I

tried

to be protown

(only scum has to try to)

, but I guess you guys

don't know what that really means

aren't falling for it

.

It also seems awfully convenient that the 2 people you want to lynch (Nameless and implosion) are the ones that are most likely to be lynched besides you. You started off at the beginning of day 2 wanting to lynch Emp, who originally looked like he'd be the most likely person to be lynched that isn't you. If an ICE wagon got support, I bet you'd hop right on to that just to save your own skin, wouldn't you?

This thread needs more implosion, Emp, and Zdenek. And votes for Saint.

[Empking]

I think one of Saint and Nameless needs to be the lynch today. They're both being very scummy but it certainally does not feel like bussing. I'd like a Nameless lynch because not only is he the scummiest but his flip give a larger amount of information with regards to King.

[KingTwelveSixteen]

I think one of Saint and Nameless needs to be the lynch today. They're both being very scummy but it certainally does not feel like bussing. I'd like a Nameless lynch because not only is he the scummiest but his flip give a larger amount of information

with regards to King.

@Saint: Your post is terrible, for all the reasons that have already been listed and likely several more. For instance, saying that other people don't see you at town because they are bad at the game? Yeah, no.

...
I knew there would be a wagon on me, so I tried to be protown, but I guess you guys don't know what that really means.

This part in particular is just

terrible.

You only

tried

to be pro-town because you thought you were gonna be lynched? As in, if nobody had put pressure on you you wouldn't have even

attempted

to be pro-town? And then you say that town is just made of bad players as the reason that people are pushing you.

Alright I reread nameless. He's pretty town. And he's probably right about Saint (who I believe is a likely scum buddy with implosion). I'm definitely not going to be voting Nameless today unless there is some significant information I missed. He was dead right about the mb wagon that sprung up. Sure mb wasn't the most town player, but he wasn't implosion.

Both Saint and implosion were on the mb wagon. He was the easiest non Saint/implosion person for scum to wagon, so this further supports my theory.

OK
this guy is namelesses partner

Why?

[DarthYoshi]

@Setael: Something about your explanation isn’t adding up to me. You posted twice in between Saint’s initial D2 post and your vote on Saint, and neither time did you express any suspicion for a post that you claim you did not like “AT ALL.” You also neglected to mention said post when you voted for Saint. If you were so vehement about not liking the post, why keep quiet on it until I asked, after you had posted three times?

Also, you come back and say that ICE has “always” been your #1 scumread. Okay, that’s fine, but then why didn’t you vote him at the outset of D2?

In other news, ICE’s recent case on Saint is fairly persuasive (and entertaining—I actually LOLed at his redaction of Saint’s words at the bottom of #637). Nameless’s, too. To my eternal chagrin, I can only vote for one of Saint or Implosion. I still feel pretty strongly about Scumplosion, but if support for his lynch continues to be a mile wide and an inch deep, I’ll reconsider.

@Empking: How would a Nameless flip inform us re: KTS? I don’t disagree that a Nameless lynch could be quite informative, but I’m not seeing the KTS connection jump out at me.

[Empking]

@Empking: How would a Nameless flip inform us re: KTS? I don’t disagree that a Nameless lynch could be quite informative, but I’m not seeing the KTS connection jump out at me.

Its probably more informative to me personally rather than general. If Nameless flipped scum then (due in part to the wagons they support) then I wouldn't settle for anything other than a King lynch. If Nameless flip town then I should probably reevaluate my reads.

[Swiftstrike]

ICENINJA

You haven't responded to this, I don't know if you missed it or are ignoring it but could you please reply to this. The quote of yours is taken from post 636

Ice I just read your above statement four times and I still don't understand it, please explain

I never said I wasn't suspicious of him, I just said that lynching him was a bad idea. I feel like I've made my point fairly clear in saying that I want to wait until day 3 or so, at which point it is much safer for a mason buddy to clear him, or for a cop to claim. Should Emp be cleared at day 3, that forces scum to decide who to night kill during nights 3 and 4, and forcing them to night kill Emp,

which is good because then they aren't night killing a townie player.

because reading the underlined you seem to suggest that scum killing EMP night 3 is them killing a non town player, in which case EMP is not town now, could you please explain this and why this then means he shouldn't be voted for now?

[Nameless]

Empking: Reasons?

[Empking]

Empking: Reasons?

As yesterday along with the hint of knowledge of mb's alignment yesterday.

[Zdenek]

Your last post just cemented it (and also made me pretty sure you know Saint is town).

Explain how you get this from ICE's post.

Since Saint is Furclow, I will not vote him unless someone can point out something scummy that he's done that has clear scum motivation. Because of meta, asking for the mass claim doesn't count; I was in a game with him when he was town and proposed that we no lynch a day early because of set-up speculation.

This thread needs more implosion, Emp, and Zdenek. And votes for Saint.

Why did you leave Implosion off the list?

[neko2086]

Zdenek-- seriously? Massclaim is not the only thing that has been mentioned about Saint. Nameless has given a pretty substantial list of reasons that Saint has responded to minimally, and Ice has pointed out a rather obvious contradiction in terms of basing his play on Pie's final words. Did you not read any of this, or how might you explain that based on meta?

Emp-- earlier you said you were still leaning town on Saint, now you say either he or nameless needs to be lynched. Why the sudden change in reads, when you seemed so positive he was town yesterday?

Saint- still wondering what you think about looking into swiftstrike based on mb's last post. I'm also now wondering why your opinion of Pie has changed so drastically.

All--sorry I can't post more right now. Sucky week.

vote:Saint

. This seems to be the way to get a response from you.

[KingTwelveSixteen]

...

This thread needs more

implosion

, Emp, and Zdenek. And votes for Saint.

Why did you leave

Implosion

off the list?

Um, what?

[Setael]

Ok, Ice, we have a problem here because now you're saying:

Yes, I agree that you HAVE reasons for lynching him (information is always good to have), but considering you had a TOWN read on him yesterday, the reasons you gave to justify voting him were bad. Basically, I liked your vote,

but not your reasons for it.

(emphasis mine)

So you don't like my reasons for it. And yet right after my vote you SPECIFICALLY said you liked my reasons for voting.

I like [Setael's] reasons for voting Saint.

and then this too:

I understand Setael's reasons for voting Saint...

It was followed by you setting up my mislynch:

You're essentially supporting an information lynch.

I think I know who I'm going to be suspicious of now if Saint flips town.

which considering I think you're scum made me quite worried you know Saint's town and might just be able to pull off 2 town mislynches just from my Saint vote. THIS is what caused me to want to jump off Saint's wagon immediately. Ice slipped up. He said he liked my reasons and then as soon as Darth questioned it he saw an opening to paint me scummy. Nameless either backed him as a buddy or fell for it as town with that nice jab accusing me of a "bussing attempt".

So I went from thinking he's mildly scummy to being ready to lynch him in minutes? He went from being scum I wanted to lynch tomorrow to scum I want to lynch today. Big difference.

Nope. Monday at 11:59 p.m. you said "I think Saint is mildly scummy" and at 1:52 a.m. you said "I'm totally fine for a lynch of either Saint or implosion." Less than 2 hours later. That's what I'm talking about.

Seriously though, 'oh, 4-5 townies couldn't possibly be wrong!' ... is wrong, and a terrible excuse for shifting your vote.

Agreed. Good thing I saw the error of my ways, eh? It seemed reasonable at the time.

Especially since you misrepresented the case against Saint (there was much more too it) and defended his D1 play

in the same post

,

As I stated, I didn't find any parts of the case very convincing yesterday, both on my first read of the thread (when it WAS mostly the way he entered the game that was being called out) nor anything added after.

and then immediately leaping back OFF the bandwagon to attack ICEninja who you claim has always been your #1 scum read despite having clearly been pushing for my lynch with no real mention of ICE during the last week of D1 or your opening D2 post.

Do you really see nothing in my reason for switching from Saint to Ice? Why are you only concerned with the jump, and not paying attention to my reason for doing so? Why the refusal to see that Ice may be scum? This is part of why I didn't push with my Ice read yesterday. I was the only one seeing it, it clearly wasn't going to happen without more info so I had to look elsewhere.

If this sounds at all familiar, remember Setael started mb53's wagon in a similar manner; suddenly swearing mb53 was really his scummiest player despite not mentioning him for a while.

Yeah, that's the "looking elsewhere". I had a town read on Saint and didn't want emp lynched. I had already tried Ice and got no support and I hadn't found anything further on neko or Pie either who were my other 2 scum reads. I looked elsewhere and mb looked scummy.

@Setael: Something about your explanation isn’t adding up to me. You posted twice in between Saint’s initial D2 post and your vote on Saint, and neither time did you express any suspicion for a post that you claim you did not like “AT ALL.” You also neglected to mention said post when you voted for Saint. If you were so vehement about not liking the post, why keep quiet on it until I asked, after you had posted three times?

It was the very first time I felt scummy vibes from Saint and when I first read it I didn't think that much of it, since I can also see a townie thinking (erroneously imo) that a mass claim at this point is a good idea. When I voted for Saint, as you've noticed, I didn't think to go into detail at all why I had decided his lynch would be acceptable. I didn't think to do so until you asked about it.

Also, you come back and say that ICE has “always” been your #1 scumread. Okay, that’s fine, but then why didn’t you vote him at the outset of D2?

Nothing had changed re: him since I first entered and not a soul found him scummy. No reason to think it would be any different at the beginning of D2.

[Setael]

Saint, I'm not defending you. I think mb's lynch is optimal since he's scummy, and if he is indeed scum, I think it will shed some light on both you and implosion, thus the information to be gained is significant. Yet, I still find you scummy, and if the town thinks you're the best lynch, so be it. It will still be far superior to an Emp lynch.

It probably won't surprise you that I think yours is the scummiest vote on mb's wagon. What light would you say mb's flip shed on Saint and implosion?

Zdenek-- seriously? Massclaim is not the only thing that has been mentioned about Saint. Nameless has given a pretty substantial list of reasons that Saint has responded to minimally, and Ice has pointed out a rather obvious contradiction in terms of basing his play on Pie's final words. Did you not read any of this, or how might you explain that based on meta?

Emp-- earlier you said you were still leaning town on Saint, now you say either he or nameless needs to be lynched. Why the sudden change in reads, when you seemed so positive he was town yesterday?

Saint- still wondering what you think about looking into swiftstrike based on mb's last post. I'm also now wondering why your opinion of Pie has changed so drastically.

All--sorry I can't post more right now. Sucky week.

vote:Saint

. This seems to be the way to get a response from you.

So... your reason for putting Saint at L-2 is to get a response out of him? Really?

My question for neko is, are you able to talk with Ice in your scum QT during the day or just at night? *watches for eye dilation*