Newbie 1072 - Game Over!

[Twistedspoon]

TS:

I agree with the premise that if you overvote, your vote loses pressure. This is a very town thing to say. GXW has one point, tho', out of the two reactions this illicted, you were the only vote (Charlie was a HoS) and GXW voted you, which makes this look like an OMGUS of sorts, even if the reasons were slightly scummy. I give you a nulltell.

you've got it all wrong mate

If you look back, I was the one who HoS'd him.

I Never voted, so it cannot be an omgus

besides, I picked up upon something scummy. That makes me scum? GXW is overreacting to my HoS and that's just silly. This isn't an OMGUS. It's another observation of a scumtell.

Vote:GXW

[FarmeriXi]

Hello newer players and you 2 not so new players. I'll be your IC for this game. I think of it as a fancy tour guide, as one who asks you not to do blatant silly things (such as self-voting) and to explain certain things (such as these abbreviations: VI, WIFOM, AtE).

Good readings are:

1) The first post of the game: here you will find important details of the game, which our mod will update periodically
2) The second post of the game: Rules are rules.
3) MafiaWiki, located here.

Please don't hesitate to ask questions in-thread. If you're doubtful of asking it publicly, you may PM the mod.

The Semi-Experienced players (SEs) are players without an obligation to teach, but they know the basic stuff as much as ICs.

We get the game going by either a random voting stage (RVS) or a random questioning stage (RQS)

Preview-edit: Looks like gxw kicked off the RVS with that post above.

Thanks for the info, I can tell you will be a great mentor for this newbie game, but with that being said.

Vote Farmerixi

@Ghostlin: OMGUS! (translated = oh my god you suck)

Hello all; it seems I'm an SE this game. All that means is I've played a few games here and have the gist of the goings on here. If anyone has any questions, the IC or me and the other SE will do our best to answer them and to help you guys with the game.

Vote: Farmerixi

: I don't like farmers.

When did Mute's learn the sign for Vote?

Unvote

Vote Mute

What's up Twisted! Hope your not scum this game. Not that you were last game, just saying, I'd hate to see another situation like our last game.(1050). Ohh, btw everyone. Yesss, I am an avid shoe wearer. Sorry for the spoiler.

Unvote

[KingTwelveSixteen]

...
When did Mute's learn the sign for Vote?
...
Yesss, I am an avid shoe wearer. Sorry for the spoiler.
...

What?

...

Wow, already declaring town and scum tells on the first page? Thats fast.

Worried?

Nah, its just the fastest out of RVS that I've ever seen before.

[Vel-Rahn Koon]

Vote Count 1.2

Twistedspoon - 2 (gxw, Dazzy)
gxw - 2 (KingTwelveSixteen, Twistedspoon)
Mute - 1 (Ghostlin)

Not Voting - 4 (Charlie, FarmeriXi, Forseti, Mute)

5 to Lynch.

Click for Deadline

[Charlie]

OK, looks like we have healthy activity thus far. My own experience tells me that this tends to simmer down as time goes by, but I'll worry about that later.

First up, I've got to let everyone know that my timezome is +8GMT. After about a year of playing here, I realize that the majority of players are around -5GMT-ish. So, my posts tend to be "delayed" as compared to other players. Thought to get that footnote out of the way.

I have been trying to figure out how to use the ISO feature and I can't seem to find it. Can you help?

KingTwelveSixteen and Ghostlin explained it correctly. To view posts in isolation (ISO) is done by selecting a name from the "Display posts by user:" dropdown selection at the bottom of the page and clicking "Go".

Additionaly, you may note the "Activity Overview" link at the bottom right of the page. This is a relatively new feature that is nifty for poking lurkish players.

I shall now address game stuff, below:

-----------

@Twistedspoon: Seems like it is not your first game here, do you mind telling how much experience of Mafia do you have?

What's so scummy about the rapid voting/unvoting in RVS? (Random Voting Stage).

Huh? I didn't say it was scummy. I said that I've seen it before and find it interesting.
Anyway. It is a strange thing to do, and I wanted gxw to explain why he did that (which he subsequently did)

@Dazzy: Random question for you; how did you feel when you got your Role PM?

Hmm well this is my first game on this site, and I've only skimmed through some other recent newbie/mini theme games so far, and I didn't see anything like this in those. I planned to do my first post like that as soon as I /in-ed the newbie queue, for the reason below.

To Twisted and Charlie:

I did the multiple votes thing in order to gauge reaction or lack thereof to it. Clearly I had some interesting results.

Hmm, interesting indeed. What do you say if I tell you that I think that you were told to do that in your Mafia Night-talk? (Night 0, or pre-game)

Wow, already declaring town and scum tells on the first page? Thats fast.

Well, for what its worth I've seen some players catching scum in Newbie games on the second page, long ago in my first game. I'd link to it if you want to see (Oh on that note, remember that you CANNOT link to ongoing games. It's against the rules and can get you modkilled).

My input on the GXW / Spoon debacle - pure silliness. I won't bother with commenting on it further than that as it is, as I said, pure silliness. Not going to put a vote down til I've solid/concrete reasons for doing so.

So you're being mute on the matter. Um hmm.

@FarmeriXi: Just a question out of curiosity: Do you normally post like that? I mean, multiple votes and unvotes within the same post?

[gxw]

Hmm well this is my first game on this site, and I've only skimmed through some other recent newbie/mini theme games so far, and I didn't see anything like this in those. I planned to do my first post like that as soon as I /in-ed the newbie queue, for the reason below.

To Twisted and Charlie:

I did the multiple votes thing in order to gauge reaction or lack thereof to it. Clearly I had some interesting results.

Hmm, interesting indeed. What do you say if I tell you that I think that you were told to do that in your Mafia Night-talk? (Night 0, or pre-game)

Like I said, I planned on doing it when I /in-ed the newbie queue. If you think I'm scum, then you think I'm scum. I can't do much to defend myself if you haven't put up a case against me. Speaking of:

My input on the GXW / Spoon debacle - pure silliness. I won't bother with commenting on it further than that as it is, as I said, pure silliness. Not going to put a vote down til I've solid/concrete reasons for doing so.

So you're being mute on the matter. Um hmm.

You have said very little about it too. What do you make of the situation?

And also,

Waitaminute. I'm sure I've seen this sort of thing before. You'd best explain before I go looking for it.

Do you care to explain this? You say you've seen this sort of thing, then think that I was told to do it in a private QT. Do you think someone else in this game did the same thing in a different game and told me to do it? I am actually curious to where else you have seen this, because I would like to see look at it too.

[gxw]

EBWOP: Last sentence should just be "because I would like to look at it too."

[Charlie]

Point taken on the first part. I asked an atypical question and received a typical response.

I agree that your involvement in taking the first step out of RVS is great for the purpose of getting the game moving, but I'm the kind of player who'll much prefer a "wait and see" approach before forming an opinion. It's a playstyle that some aren't comfortable with, but it works pretty okay for me.

I'm pretty sure I've seen the slew of votes within the same post done before (as a joke). My very first thought was "hey, this person here must have played before!" So I prompted a statement. I have a few ideas where to look for it, but I really think it isn't worth the effort over such a small matter. What do you think?

[Twistedspoon]

First up, I've got to let everyone know that my timezome is +8GMT. After about a year of playing here, I realize that the majority of players are around -5GMT-ish.

GMT for me. Yep, I'm English.

@Twistedspoon: Seems like it is not your first game here, do you mind telling how much experience of Mafia do you have?

Sure, I have no problem. Heck, It's even on my wiki page.

Newbie 1050
Open 283 - Masons and Monks
Mini 1130 - A Fishbowl Invasion by Ninja Monkeys!
Execution Mafia

a few here for you

To Twisted and Charlie:

I did the multiple votes thing in order to gauge reaction or lack thereof to it. Clearly I had some interesting results.

[/quote]
Care to share?

The only results I saw was myself commenting on what was a scummish way of voting and then being accused by you becuase I FoS'd you.

FoS'ing isn't a scumtell, but Double RVS voting is. In fact a similar situation is happening in my mini normal games, and that player seems almost certain scum (that's not to say you are though).

You just seem a little confused though as to what is and isn't scummish and that, despite being anti-town, isn't always mafia, so I'll unvote for now.

Unvote

Dazzy's quickness at jumping on the fastest wagon is interesting, although this might not actually be a scumtell since there was only one on the wagon so far, and Daz seemed to justify his vote, something which mafia would find harder to do since they usually don't care which townie dies on day1 .

@Farmer: Lol. But I hope you're not scum either eh? how do i know?

TS:

I agree with the premise that if you overvote, your vote loses pressure. This is a very town thing to say. GXW has one point, tho', out of the two reactions this illicted, you were the only vote (Charlie was a HoS) and GXW voted you, which makes this look like an OMGUS of sorts, even if the reasons were slightly scummy. I give you a nulltell.

1) I didn't vote him. your facts are wrong. I was the HoS
2)Explain how my reasons were scummy. They've worked well in other games at RVS stage. Double voting is usually a scum thing to do, and even if it may not be the case this time, especially in a newbie game, all i did was pick up on this and comment.
3) It's not just me who thinks that double RVS voting is a scumtell, one of the reasons I cited was a direct quote from anther player in another game of mine in a similar RVS situation.

Double RVS-ing tends to be a solid scumtell, since there's no point to it. You RVS for pressure - why would you destroy reasonless pressure on one person to push reasonless pressure on another?

explain why my theory was scummy and I'll give you a gold star.
my theory was spot on, regardless of if gxw isn't mafia in this game.

anyaways, that's my long post of the day.
Oh, and Charlie, I joined your theme game :3

[Ghostlin]

TS:

I agree with the premise that if you overvote, your vote loses pressure. This is a very town thing to say. GXW has one point, tho', out of the two reactions this illicted, you were the only vote (Charlie was a HoS) and GXW voted you, which makes this look like an OMGUS of sorts, even if the reasons were slightly scummy. I give you a nulltell.

1) I didn't vote him. your facts are wrong. I was the HoS
2)Explain how my reasons were scummy. They've worked well in other games at RVS stage. Double voting is usually a scum thing to do, and even if it may not be the case this time, especially in a newbie game, all i did was pick up on this and comment.
3) It's not just me who thinks that double RVS voting is a scumtell, one of the reasons I cited was a direct quote from anther player in another game of mine in a similar RVS situation.

Double RVS-ing tends to be a solid scumtell, since there's no point to it. You RVS for pressure - why would you destroy reasonless pressure on one person to push reasonless pressure on another?

explain why my theory was scummy and I'll give you a gold star.
my theory was spot on, regardless of if gxw isn't mafia in this game.

anyaways, that's my long post of the day.
Oh, and Charlie, I joined your theme game :3

First off, when I posted this:

TS: I agree with the premise that if you overvote, your vote loses pressure. This is a very town thing to say. GXW has one point, tho', out of the two reactions this illicted, you were the only vote (Charlie was a HoS) and GXW voted you, which makes this look like an OMGUS of sorts,

even if the reasons were slightly scummy

. I give you a nulltell.

I did mispost, which I then EBWOP (Edit By Way of Post). I will do that a lot. The HoS seems quite reactionary was all I'm trying to say is to that. The bolded part should read, 'even if the reasons for the initial vote seemed scummy to you'. However, the entire thing is a null tell on both of your cases; there's nothing compelling there to really make me believe 'YES, this person is scum'. I'm almost wondering if this isn't a town on town pileup.

[Ghostlin]

EBWOP : Forgot this since we're out of RVS on page 1, it seems.

Unvote

I don't have enough information to believe Mute is a scum.

Mod: Could you fix that for me...everything after 'I gave you a nulltell' should be in quotes.

Fixed?

- Vel

[FarmeriXi]

@FarmeriXi: Just a question out of curiosity: Do you normally post like that? I mean, multiple votes and unvotes within the same post?

No, I do not normally post in that manner. That was my short intro and jump into what little bit of RVS fun I would have. Now it seems the RVS ended very quickly and at this point I do not have any tells on anyone. I am more curious to see what will happen over the next couple of pages (some good discussions happening although I can't really find anything to que in on atm.)

[Twistedspoon]

there's nothing compelling there to really make me believe 'YES, this person is scum'.

obviously not

that would be near impossible this early on

My intention was to reveal how scummy that post appeared to be.
It was not an OMGUS, nor a conviction,
in fact my post was little more than an observation backed up by mafia theory and then an invitation to gxw to explain his post.

In short, The quoted conclusion was not the one I was aiming for so it seems a bit out of place so early into the game.

[Mute]

@Charlie: Not being mute about it (I C wut U did thar :igmeoy:). I gave my opinion on it.

Now,

No, I do not normally post in that manner. That was my short intro and jump into what little bit of RVS fun I would have. Now it seems the RVS ended very quickly and at this point I do not have any tells on anyone. I am more curious to see what will happen over the next couple of pages (some good discussions happening although I can't really find anything to que in on atm.)

Farmer, did you read what had transpired so far in the game before you posted that, seeing as you double voted after it'd been said that double voting during the RVS was a pretty solid by two other players?

[Mute]

...
EBWOP: As ghostlin and now I have demonstrated guys, it's usually a good idea to press Preview before posting.
the :igmeoy: I put was supposed to come out as the emote for the snarkiness of it. Who would'a thunk that u = you? >_>

[Forseti]

Aight, first up, excuse the late arrival.

I'd love to say it was because I'm fashionable, but to tell the truth I was just hella busy yesterday, so, hey everyone.

This would be my first MS game, in case anyone asks, however, I have played a hell of a lot on other sites, I'm sure the more experienced crowd understand what that means, 3 day phases instead of 3 weeks.

Anyway, since you guys seem to have got right down to it...

I personally didn't think much of gxw's multi-vote post itself, because I've done something like that as a joke.

I WAS intrigued by the fact that he says he aimed to use it to reaction-fish though. I've never seen anyone do something like that as anything more than a joke, personally. Curious to know how others see that, because I've always treated RVS as a fluid phase that generally get ended by accident, and in general have never been fond of seeing it forced to an end artificially, particularly not at a point where very few others had checked in at all.

I guess that depends on how much value should be placed on looking back at RVS at a later stage once there's been a couple of flips and there's a lot more open info, I think there is a certain amount of mileage there and it may be lost later on because of this.

Regarding Twisted, you know, maybe it's just because of the style of play I'm used to, and the fact that most of my games have topped 20 players, but my general reaction when I see someone make a case as to why something is scummy and then delay a vote (as in your case, dropping the HoS instead) is generally questionable. I'm all for the not devaluing a vote (Personally, I don't think gxw did this, if he was changing his vote every post for a string of posts, that's devaluing, what he did was a player run-down and land on the last name of the list, as set out by the mod in the pre-game, I'm personally operating on the policy that 8 outta 9 of those votes may as well just have never happened), but I also think that it devalues a vote just as much to leave it lying fallow when you think you have a case to place it down.

I don't yet consider this voteworthy myself, ironically, it's an early observation, and I'm also somewhat hesitant to put a guy at L-2 lightly at this point.

And being Scottish (though ex-pat, I'm on GMT -5 these days if we're trading timezones) it's possible that you being English is colouring my judgment on you anyway. *grin*

Anywhos, that's some opening thoughts on those two, more to come as more comes to me.

[Twistedspoon]

it's possible that you being English is colouring my judgment on you anyway. *grin*

[insert predictable joke about bagpipes and haggis]
JK

scottish people are cool. Better than the Welsh anyways.

but I also think that it devalues a vote just as much to leave it lying fallow when you think you have a case to place it down.

this makes sense. However my style is to usually HoS then vote if they're still scummy
Besides, when would we ever HoS? We'd all have justifications for votes as we have justifications for HoS's so HoS's would become irrelevant

I find my HoS similar to Charlie's response in that gxw's post was questionable, but not vote-worthy

hope that clears things up for you

[Dazzy]

So, going back over TS's posts, I've noticed several things which stand out as being small scum-tells, at least for me.

1) The initial over-reaction and subsequent semi-OMGUS HoS (see my previous post for a sub-par analysis on that lol).

2) The waffling on gxw's scumminess/vote since that time. TS has:
HoS-ed with what I see as an over-reaction/OMGUS he claims is based purely on theory which didn't really apply in context
Voted when asked to put his vote where his mouth is (not explicitly)
Unvoted soon after

We've been discussing the value of votes, and TS has been an advocate of their power, which is why I find his waffling strange. Of course, it's completely reasonable to take your vote off of someone you no longer find suspicious/scummy. But then:

3)I've seen no scum-hunting by him beyond his initial "attack" (I use this term loosely) on gxw's RVS. Lots of defending himself, which is reasonable, but no really valuable work done imho.

@TS, since you no longer seem to feel gxw to be the scummiest of players, can you tell us who you

would

like to vote for, and why?

@ Charlie

I find your question to be a bit loaded. Giving my deep reaction to my role PM would most likely be as good as a role claim to an experienced player, and so I will not go any further than to say that I was genuinely excited to begin my first game of Mafia. Hopefully this game will continue to get more interesting as more people post their own thoughts.

Regarding time zones, I am EST myself, which I believe is -5 GMT. My posting habits will be somewhat haphazard, however, as I am frequently up late, and will do my best to check this game whenever I can.

This concludes my thoughts so far, hopefully I'll have more material to post on tonight.

Cheers

[Twistedspoon]

@TS, since you no longer seem to feel gxw to be the scummiest of players, can you tell us who you

would

like to vote for, and why?

Woah, where did this come from?

one step at a time mate.
When did i say this?

I said that his first post could be seen as scummy due to it's parallels with mafia theory.
This led to my HoS
I then unvoted because I felt that his post and his subsequent ones were not enough to deserve a vote. He seemed more confused town to me after he explained that he had tried to use his scumtell to fish for scum. This is why I unvoted.

However I never said that I don't feel gxw to be 'the scummiest of players' as you put it. Just not scummy enough for a vote. In fact at page 2 I don't even want to have to choose who is and isn't scummy, which is why I'm not voting yet. Also to keep the power of the vote and such..

3)I've seen no scum-hunting by him beyond...

Incorrect. I've given my opinions on the actions of other players that have been signifiacant to me.

Dazzy's quickness at jumping on the fastest wagon is interesting, although this might not actually be a scumtell since there was only one on the wagon so far, and Daz seemed to justify his vote, something which mafia would find harder to do since they usually don't care which townie dies on day1 .

Here's a point I brought up about you, so don't accuse me of tunneling now.
Also, I haven't done too much scumhunting in your opinion because we're on page 2 still, however I'm pleased with my contribution so far.
Maybe when you guys give me some breathing space and stop being at my neck I can get to some scumhunting.

1) The initial over-reaction and subsequent semi-OMGUS HoS

HoS means nothing at the end of the day. I merely wanted more info from gxw in the same way that Charlie did.
I just made my intent more official with a HoS

2) The waffling on gxw's scumminess/vote

Either this or RVS.
And i think it's in the best interests of the town to leave RVS ASAP
Oh, and it wasn't waffling on, it was justification.

hope this clears things up for you now

G'Night all

[KingTwelveSixteen]

...
I WAS intrigued by the fact that he says he aimed to use it to reaction-fish though. I've never seen anyone do something like that as anything more than a joke, personally. Curious to know how others see that, because I've always treated RVS as a fluid phase that generally get ended by accident, and in general have never been fond of seeing it forced to an end artificially, particularly not at a point where very few others had checked in at all.
...

I see that as a bit scummy, forcing RVS to end by making a "trap" like that in order to attack the first person who questions it isn't very townie play. Townies would just wait for somebody to mess up all on their own from the pressure instead of trying to pull a bizzare gambit thingy to end RVS faster. Ending it faster with a "trap" would just mean that the only things that could be talked about early in the game would be the person/people who "fell" for the "trap" and the "trap" itself, thus stifling debate, thus scummy. It was a bit more scummy in this case since the people who talked about the voting didn't even make this huge deal out of it or anything scummy like that, but gxw acted like they did.

[Dazzy]

Just wanted to address a couple of things before bed.

@TS, since you no longer seem to feel gxw to be the scummiest of players, can you tell us who you

would

like to vote for, and why?

Woah, where did this come from?

one step at a time mate.
When did i say this?

This comment was based on what I suspect is a difference in our playstyles. I made this assertion in the mindset that my vote will almost always be on the person I find scummiest. I made an assumption which was apparently wrong.

Also, I haven't done too much scumhunting in your opinion because we're on page 2 still, however I'm pleased with my contribution so far.
Maybe when you guys give me some breathing space and stop being at my neck I can get to some scumhunting.

This is a very valid point and I actually want to apologise for calling you on a non-issue like that. I guess the transition from reading a full game at once to having to wait for stuff to happen was a bit bigger than I expected. My over-zealousness is something that will most likely continue throughout the game . Page two is nowhere to start saying an active player hasn't done anything.

I've admitted these points because I feel they have been legitimately matched by TS, and admitting my mistakes is something that I will also try to do. However, TS is still the most suspicious of the lot (if only for lack of much activity so far), so my vote stands for now.

And i think it's in the best interests of the town to leave RVS ASAP

I agree that your involvement in taking the first step out of RVS is great for the purpose of getting the game moving...

...
I WAS intrigued by the fact that he says he aimed to use it to reaction-fish though. I've never seen anyone do something like that as anything more than a joke, personally. Curious to know how others see that, because I've always treated RVS as a fluid phase that generally get ended by accident, and in general have never been fond of seeing it forced to an end artificially, particularly not at a point where very few others had checked in at all.
...

...
I see that as a bit scummy, forcing RVS to end by making a "trap" like that in order to attack the first person who questions it isn't very townie play. Townies would just wait for somebody to mess up all on their own from the pressure instead of trying to pull a bizzare gambit thingy to end RVS faster.
...

We've got some differing opinions here. From what I've seen, the general consensus is that it is better for the town that discussion is not delayed needlessly. I feel that the RVS can be useful, but I also think that anything that can get us moving in a meaningful direction is better than "Lol votez on u!". In this case, I would say that while gxw's "trap" could have been better timed (ie when more people had checked in), it was a legitimate attempt to get discussion going which would appear to have succeeded. King, you mention that town should wait for someone to mess up all on their own from the "pressure", but I'm curious as to how any

real

pressure is created without plays along the lines of that used by gxw. RV's are just that, random and meaningless (for the most part).

@Forseti: Would you have preferred a longer RVS in this case? Do you feel that gxw's action has got conversation going as well as a "natural" exit from RVS would?

@King: How would you prefer to create pressure on the mafia (not a random player), rather than a play designed to catch scum?

[KingTwelveSixteen]

...
@King: How would you prefer to create pressure on the mafia (not a random player), rather than a play designed to catch scum?

Well first off, I don't really think of those traps as containing any real evidence of the person falling for them being scum, since the only ones I've seen have been rather silly...null tells on them, to be precise.

But I would say a bunch of people vote for each other wily-nilly until somebodies like "why you votin' this guy" and the other guy gives an explanation and it all ends up snowballing from there into some real discussion, or something along those lines. If you do it that way everybody has a chance to say stuff about what is going on (and possibly incriminate themselves), and we can analyse their posts to move forward in the day from there, but if you just make a trap thing or something like that to end it quick nobody makes those posts, and there is much less to analyse at the start of the game. 'Cause like I said, all we really have available to talk about is the trap now, instead of various wagons and votes and ect.

[gxw]

I want to make this very clear: I would never vote for someone purely because they voted me (much less Hos me), especially if I made a post to gauge reactions. That's just plain dumb. Furthermore, it wasn't just because we was the first "victim" to respond to my "trap". It wasn't a trap. I made the post merely to look at the reactions of people. It actually was an RVS vote, and I voted Twistedspoon. I just put it at the end of a long string of votes and unvotes. If people didn't like it then that's ok, and I would've moved on. Even if they voted for me because of my post, I would be fine with it. It's because of what he said IN his post that I went after him.

The reason I voted for TS is because of this:

GXW, your post is scummy in that it completely denies the point of the RVS. You're supposed to start a wagon going by placing a vote on one of the players. If the player is (bad)scum then they should react badly to it and crack under the pressure.

I did exactly what he said one should do in RVS. I placed my vote on a player, even if I did it multiple times, I still placed my vote on a player. I also felt like he was correct in saying that a bad scum should react badly to it. And it seems to me that he reacted badly to it, HoSing me, making a considerably substantial post about it, and calling it "very scummish".

That's why I voted for him

Ok, onto other things:

I have a few ideas where to look for it, but I really think it isn't worth the effort over such a small matter. What do you think?

I'm not sure what you are asking. Are you asking what I think about going to find where else it has happened? Or something else?

Care to share?

The only results I saw was myself commenting on what was a scummish way of voting and then being accused by you becuase I FoS'd you.

A lack of reactions to my post are results too.

[Charlie]

@Twistedspoon: Do you realize that you've made an error in your #33? Read my #29, the response below the quote of KingTwelveSixteen. Be more careful next time.

FoS'ing isn't a scumtell, but Double RVS voting is.

Mmm, I don't agree with this and you've said things which you cannot prove, like "you're almost certain". Anyway, the whole post strikes me a bit odd. Call it gut if you will, but I believe this is deserving of a vote.
VOTE: Twistedspoon

This is L-2. That's 2 more votes to lynch, so be careful when placing new votes on him. A premature lynch does not benefit anyone but Mafia.

I'll have to look again at the later #43. After reading that once I've mixed reads...

@Forseti: Good to see you arrive, why are you hesitant to place TS at L-2? Do you believe he's Mafia?

@Dazzy: So you have a case on TS, which I like. Your answer is satisfactory, so I have nothing else to say about it.

I have a few ideas where to look for it, but I really think it isn't worth the effort over such a small matter. What do you think?

I'm not sure what you are asking. Are you asking what I think about going to find where else it has happened? Or something else?

I'm seeking your agreement that looking for the source of where I've seen that weird style of voting is not worth the effort.

[Forseti]

Dazzy: I don't particularly care about the length of RVS, per se. My issue with gxw's "trap" is much as you described in your response what King said. The closure felt premature, and it feels like that premature snap cost us an opportunity.

Charlie: Not enough to take it to L-2 at that stage, no. Counter question to you. Would YOU have placed that vote if I had and taken it to L-1? Or were you trying to make a point?