A Storm of Swords - Lay your swords down!

[Locke Lamora]

And get this: throughout the game, despite pushing for hasdgfas, DGB always kept her original random-stage vote on LynchMePls, who she never tried to push. Only now she moved her vote to Locke, and between him and zoraster, I'm more confident of Locke being town.

The more I read this, the less I understand why you have mentioned zoraster here. What has zoraster got to do with anything? The implication of this is that DGB is scummy because she's voting for someone who you believed was more likely to be town than someone else - have I got that right?

Bunnylover: do you think LMP is scummy after his last post?

TS: Zdenek already said that he has pretty much accepted me as cleared (albeit with a willingness to rely on the flavour knowledge of others that concerned me slightly).

[Twilight Sparkle]

Explain "Magua is sheeping MoI and Benmage" with the fact that I'm the first on your wagon, and I was the first to call you out yesterday.

I never said you were sheeping, I said you have no case and are using MoI and Ben as a shield to that. Being first on our wagon today has little to nothing to do with any of that.

Explain why you should be held to the same scumhunting standards as, eg, Raivann or Bunnylover.

Nice selective name plucking. Explain why we shouldn't be held to the same standards as Kast, Thor, DTMaster, LMP?

Basically I'm saying there is a difference between active lurking and being completely away from the game. A big difference.

~Sotty.

[Feysal]

And get this: throughout the game, despite pushing for hasdgfas, DGB always kept her original random-stage vote on LynchMePls, who she never tried to push. Only now she moved her vote to Locke, and between him and zoraster, I'm more confident of Locke being town.

The more I read this, the less I understand why you have mentioned zoraster here. What has zoraster got to do with anything? The implication of this is that DGB is scummy because she's voting for someone who you believed was more likely to be town than someone else - have I got that right?

DGB was scummy for not voting who she was pushing. She had suspected you all day, but she only voted you after Kast and zoraster had started a wagon on you. In addition, I could not see her having any reason to suspect you. And no, zoraster has nothing to do with that... he had just stuck in my mind with you since I'd read both of your posts in context, which is where I got my initial reads on you from.

[Twilight Sparkle]

So I really liked Setael's opening post into the game. The pressure on Feysal was pretty good I thought, but seeing her simply unvote almost right away looks strange to me. I really want to know what Feysal said that made her change her mind like that.

Chesskid had soft claimed Tywin Lannister, by saying his character had been the Hand before. The scum may have believed him and thought that Tywin would be a power role. If Chesskid did that on purpose, it was actually well done... he managed to draw a night kill, saving someone else and avoiding his own potential policy lynch.

This is when I started to get really bad vibes about Feysal. I think it was LMP that hit the nail on the head by commenting that it looks like that Feysal knows Chess was killed by scum. The tone of this, congratulating Chess, just feels off. Like he has inside knowledge of what went down over night.

Also looking back in post 1026 he talks about why he thinks there is only one scum team and the tone again just makes me think inside information. I currently have a weak scum read on him.

= = = = =

Magua looking back I see you were right and I did say sheeping last night in reference to your position on us. That is poor wording on my part. I agree you aren't sheeping but not just because you were the first vote on us, but because you haven't made any kind of case on us outside activity. I still like my shield comment though, it's like your using MoI and Ben to hide your lack of any real input towards us.

~Sotty

[LimMePls]

2) Are you suggesting that Chesskid was the Stark kill?

Of course. Who else? Unless you're suggesting we had a lucky doctor or role blocker, the Starks must have killed Chesskid. My theory is that they thought he was Tywin, and killed him thinking he would be a power role.

The fact that you say "who else" and then go on to list multiple other explanations for a Stark kill is hilarious. One of the (but certainly not the only) reasons I find your "theory" incredibly unlikely is because I can't fathom an anti-town faction EVER killing chesskid on N1. I find a doc protect on one of the "confirmed" players or a RB on the Stark killer much more likely.

Changing my vote due to the Hand's wishes.

So you are voting me only because Benmage called me scummy, and he has never even explained why?

Nice try, but no. My vote was on a player the Hand had said was off limits (ie a player they would use the governor power on). Therefore I moved my vote. But now that I've dug into your play some more its STARTLINGLY clear that this vote is infinitely better. Why are you trying to twist the events to make me look bad?

Also, what about my Raivann case don't you agree with? As for diddin, I find that worthless. Seriously, you can't call someone scummy for having a correct scumread just because they were voting someone else they had a better case on. And considering that you were also voting Raivann, in fact you started that wagon, I don't know what you're suspecting me for.

LOL! People, please look at Feysal squirm here. He actually wants town cred for his play in regards to diddin yesterday. That play SCREAMED distancing scum. Go back and look at it, seriously. As for your Raivann case, it has been pointed out MULTIPLE times that the interactions of diddin and Raivann do not look scummy, and if you SERIOUSLY believe your 1 scum team theory, shouldn't that make Riavann less likely scum? Why do you keep ignoring this?

Apparently you think that having a town read implies inside knowledge of there being only one scum team. Really, I simply had a town read on Locke, based on some comments of his I liked. I never said anything about DGB's or zoraster's interactions making Locke town. I said that between zoraster and Locke, I was more confident of Locke being town, in other words, I found Locke more townish than zoraster, who I found scummy.

ONCE AGAIN YOU ARE TRYING TO DISTORT THE FACTS. Here are the posts one more time, in the order of their occurance:

And get this: throughout the game, despite pushing for hasdgfas, DGB always kept her original random-stage vote on LynchMePls, who she never tried to push. Only now she moved her vote to Locke, and between him and zoraster, I'm more confident of Locke being town.

Quick question – why so quick to assume Locke is town? Couldn't he possibly be scum of a faction different from DGB / Zoraster? Do you have reason to think we only have a single scum faction in a game this size?

I simply don't see where the scum reads on him are coming from. I'm leaning town on Locke, though it is not a strong read, his ISO is too short for that. If he belongs to any scum faction at all, I've not seen indication of that yet. I have no reason to believe there would be only one scum team either, in fact I find two more likely.

Oh, and I should probably explain why I think we only have one scum faction. Given the size of the game, I think scum factions would most likely have three members if there were two factions, four at most. We've had two Starks flip, both of them power roles. To balance that, the theoretical other scum faction should also have power roles. If factions had three members each, that would mean that the majority of the scum had powers, and if there were godfathers, there would be no room for goons at all. That is one thing. In addition, Brynden Tully seems to be a relatively obscure character, and if you had to pick three or four characters on the Stark side, I don't think he would make the cut. My conclusion is that there is only one main mafia faction, the Starks.

Now, where in that first post do you EVER state that your view on LL is NOT from the interactions with DGB and zoraster? Also, it DOESN'T MATTER if you claim you had a town read on him and it was then BOLSTERED by DGB/Zoraster interactions. The fact is that you IMPLY that interactions with DGB/Zoraster (who you are calling scummy) make LL more likely town. But that can only be true if you believe there is only 1 scum team, OTHERWISE IT WOULD MEAN ONLY THAT HE ISN'T PARTNERS WITH DGB/ZORASTER.

Feysal continues to dodge this point because he has no good reasoning for it. By simple fact if you think that Player A looks more town because of an interaction with Player B (who you think is scum), then by NECESSITY you must assume 1 scum team. Otherwise the interaction would only mean that Player A isn't scum WITH player B, not that Player A is less likely scum.

I guess I need to be clearer on this: I have never said that I would find Locke town based on any interaction with DGB or Zoraster. I had a town read on him independent of either of them, though not very strong, based on some of his posts that I liked. Part of why I found DGB and zoraster scummy then was because they were pushing Locke for no apparent reason, but that was not what gave me the town read on Locke.

The only time I ever mentioned Locke, DGB and zoraster in the same sentence was in my post #538. "Only now she moved her vote to Locke, and between him and zoraster, I'm more confident of Locke being town." Nothing there about what I found Locke townish for.

Straight from the horses FUCKING mouth! First, "I have never said that I would find Locke town based on any interaction with DGB or Zoraster" is a lie. We've all seen the quote, so I don't think I need to explain why its a lie. He still refuses to acknowledge that being "more confident of Locke being town" REQUIRES the belief of 1 scum team, yet on D1 he was specifically saying that he thought there were two teams.

Since DGB is on Benmage's list of acceptable lynches, this might even have a chance of succeeding. My case on DGB follows.

I love how when you move your vote because of Benmage's requirement that is just fine, but when I did you try to tar it as some sort of scummy action. Hypocrisy FTW!

Disliking the recent post by LMP.
Twilight Sparkle is a Knight in shining white armor!
All TS did was answered a question that was asked at someone else. Never knew that was a tell of some sort. Especially since the answer was very obviously.
I'm just confused as to how this makes TS a Knight and give Scummy vibes?

Your comments on Feysal are blah. Backtracking I can kinda see where your getting that from. But from what I've read, this is how I processed it: "DGB is scum. Between Zoraster and LL: LL is townier then Zoraster." He doesn't compare DGB/Zoraster, so how exactly is that saying their is only one scum team? Should everyone never have any town reads because their are two scum team? No.

To me its seems like your trying to appear scum hunting, while you aren't. Your just trying to make things bigger then they are.

I have nothing nice to say about this post, so I'm just officially registering my frustration with it and going to refrain from saying the things I really want to say.

All the time I have for this thread has been spent reading it. I do want to unvote after Feysal's last post and remove him to the backburner for the present.

unvote, vote: Nexus

Welcome back from sick V/LA!

unnominate, nominate: bunnylover

WHY! What on EARTH was townie about that post, it was FULL of completely FAIL responses to the case! OMG I feel like I'm taking crazy pills.

re post 1253: I'm calling TS/Feysal scum team right now.

[danakillsu]

Miijukin is not suddenly not your main scumread nor your secondary scum read. Certainly I can understand cooperating with Benmage, but I'm not understanding how you being unable to vote for Mijukin suddenly made him two slots (or more?) less scummy.

Say what? I said I wanted to incapacitate my main scumread for the night. Therefore I nominate Setael, Mikujin's replacement. What's the problem, again?

[LimMePls]

A Dance With Dragons to be published July 12, 2011.

REJOICE!

[Twilight Sparkle]

Say what? I said I wanted to incapacitate my main scumread for the night. Therefore I nominate Setael, Mikujin's replacement. What's the problem, again?

I had the replacements lined up wrong. Scratch that. Apologies.

@LMP: Excellent news.

-hito

[Shadow1psc]

Chesskid had soft claimed Tywin Lannister, by saying his character had been the Hand before. The scum may have believed him and thought that Tywin would be a power role. If Chesskid did that on purpose, it was actually well done... he managed to draw a night kill, saving someone else and avoiding his own potential policy lynch.

This is when I started to get really bad vibes about Feysal. I think it was LMP that hit the nail on the head by commenting that it looks like that Feysal knows Chess was killed by scum. The tone of this, congratulating Chess, just feels off. Like he has inside knowledge of what went down over night.
~Sotty[/quote]

This is a pretty simple conclusion... unless you're trying to tell us you think Stark killed one of their own, it's pretty obvious CK was the scum night kill choice. I don't think Feysal's conclusion is anywhere near far-fetched.

[Shadow1psc]

A Dance With Dragons to be published July 12, 2011.

REJOICE!

NO. UNACCEPTABLE. I will not believe the book is out until I'm fucking holding it. BULL. I'll keep not getting my hopes up tyvm.

In related news, attacking Feysal for inferring CK being a night kill when he soft claimed Tyrion is stupid. Yes, CK is somewhat of a detriment to town if left alive, but he was not his usually anti-town self day 1. On top of potentially being power, I don't see why this was a bad choice at all. When CK isn't being a derp about how he acts, his reads tend to be decent, and I wouldn't be surprised if he was on to at least one other Stark.

[LimMePls]

Fuck it.

STARKS DIDN'T KILL CHESSKID, I DID. Discuss.

[Shadow1psc]

Fuck it.

STARKS DIDN'T KILL CHESSKID, I DID. Discuss.

ohai, vig.

[Shadow1psc]

Fuck it.

STARKS DIDN'T KILL CHESSKID, I DID. Discuss.

If that's true, btw, your attack of feysal is even moooooore off base.

[Setael]

I really want to know what Feysal said that made her change her mind like that.

WHY! What on EARTH was townie about that post, it was FULL of completely FAIL responses to the case! OMG I feel like I'm taking crazy pills.

I haven't changed my mind. He's still my #1 scum read, but something I read in his post made me decide to put him in my pocket until tomorrow. If he continues to get minimal attention, this is where he'll stay and I'll share my reasons tomorrow. If people start actually reading and commenting on him (posts by TS and LMS since my unvote have made this seem possible whereas before all anyone wanted to talk about was TS), then I'll be sharing those reasons today since if everyone wants at him, I can hardly keep him in my pocket.

Feysal's post 538 looks sketchy after diddin's flip with the "And from diddin" stuck in there.

I can definitely see a scum buddy wanting to cover his bases by giving that little honorable mention (while staying off the wagon) where it looked at the time like diddin could have ended up as the D1 lynch.

In fact, an ISO of Feysal shows the only things he said about diddin at all were these 2 plus the first thing he said which was, "I have little love for diddin after his attack on Magua for his "contradiction". That's it. About the perfect amount for a scum buddy wanting to look clean if diddin's lynch goes through, but not wanting to push the wagon at all.

I had a scummy feeling from diddin, but I had actual cases on DGB and Raivann. I voted the one who seemed scummiest at the time, and who I still find scummy now. I invite you to find fault with that if you can.

Thank you for the invitation. Let's look at your play re: diddin D1:

You mention in passing not liking his attack on Magua. You then say you have a scummy feel about him but won't put a vote there until you've read the whole thread and you will have to ISO read him. In your next post, you say you're all caught up but you don't mention diddin AT ALL. Seems pretty clear you never bothered to ISO him. It'd be one thing if after your read you no longer saw him as scummy, but that's supposedly not the case. The next (and only other thing) you say about him is this post I find so scummy where you throw in the little honorary "And from diddin". At the time you made this post, if you still had a scummy feel from him, why is this ALL you've said about him? Why didn't you bother to ISO him? Why didn't you mention him at all once you'd finished the thread?

As I've said, I think the reason is you were covering your bases. Every time you mentioned diddin D1 you called him scum, but did nothing else. Kept yourself open to bus him while keeping your vote and "suspicions" firmly elsewhere.

So Feysal is scum and should be lynched. TS' white knighting Feysal when I started to question him about his assertion that the Chesskid kill must be the Stark kill is also relevant and means a TS/Feysal team is not unlikely.

re post 1253: I'm calling TS/Feysal scum team right now.

Hrm... I don't think either of these are strong enough to say definitively either way.

[Twilight Sparkle]

...Wait a minute. I thought your whole theory was that Feysal was scum because he'd slipped and revealed there'd been only one scumteam all along.

From your POV, it should have been obvious that there were two scumteams, because the Stark kill was missing.

(That explains your annoyance with hito correcting your "mistake," though.)

Also, why did you choose to kill chesskid?

[Twilight Sparkle]

^Mina, by the way.

[Setael]

LMP, are you claiming SK?

Fuck it.

STARKS DIDN'T KILL CHESSKID, I DID. Discuss.

If that's true, btw, your attack of feysal is even moooooore off base.

Shadow, what are your thoughts on Feysal's play re: diddin D1? The "attack" of feysal is certainly not solely based on night kill speculation, at least as far as I'm concerned.

...Wait a minute. I thought your whole theory was that Feysal was scum because he'd slipped and revealed there'd been only one scumteam all along.

Same question for you.

[Shadow1psc]

It's not, but if you're fishing for things you know aren't true at this point, there's something to be said about the validity of the rest of your statements.

[Setael]

Ok so what about MY statements? LMP is not the only one posting about feysal.

[Bunnylover]

@LL: Yes.

@LMP: Why the fuck did you claim.

@Everyone else: Should we assume now that their is two scum teams, and one of the teams where blocked?

[Eddard Stark]

Vote count 2.12

Twilight Sparkle (6) Magua, MagnaofIllusion, Benmage, Raivann, Zdenek, Hasdgfas

Bunnylover (3) Ghostlin, xvart, Danakillsu
Setael (1) DrippingGoofball
danakillsu (1) Kast
Ghostlin (1) DTMaster
Thor665 (5) Twilight Sparkle, Locke Lamora, Shadow1psc, Nexus, Bunnylover
Feysal (1) LynchMePls
DrippingGoofball (1) Feysal
Nexus (1) Setael

Not voting (1) Thor665

With 21 alive it takes 11 to lynch. No majority at deadline and there'll be no lynch.

Envoy to the Eyrie

[/u]

Setael (2) Magua, Danakillsu

Bunnylover (5) MagnaofIllusion, LynchMePls, Nexus, hasdgfas, Setael

Raivann (4) Bunnylover, Ghostlin, xvart, Feysal
Zdenek (2) Kast, Twilight Sparkle
Thor665 (2) Zdenek, Benmage
Nexus (1) Raivann,
xvart (1) DTMaster

Not nominating (4) Shadow1psc, DrippingGoofball, Locke Lamora, Thor665

With 21 alive it takes 11 to sent someone to the Eyrie

* Eddard Stark a top tier mod who's very good at votecounts.
* No one due a prod (Will edit if that is incorrect)
* Kast is on V/la. As is Nexus.
* Any mistakes in the VC point them out
*The deadline can be found here.

[Eddard Stark]

A Dance With Dragons to be published July 12, 2011.

REJOICE!

Back to the game

[Ghostlin]

Fuck it.

STARKS DIDN'T KILL CHESSKID, I DID. Discuss.

Wait, what? Chess was Lancaster aligned though; the only other flip was Stark, and I'd think you'd have a hard time convincing me the mafia iced one of their own.

The remaining possibilities are these: (Ordered in how feasible I like them.)

1) You are scum, soft claiming Vig/SK.
2) There's a protection role/RB role in the house (which, in that case, protection role,

do not claim

), and you are a town aligned Vig.
3) See above, replace the word vig with SK.
4) 2 or 3, only Starks didn't kill/can't kill last night (not likely).
5) More than one mafia group in this game and one of them was blocked from acting last night. (This is a combo of 1, you're soft claiming Vig, and telling the truth in a way we'd like to hear.)

I'm not sure how I feel about this yet.

[Feysal]

The fact that you say "who else" and then go on to list multiple other explanations for a Stark kill is hilarious. One of the (but certainly not the only) reasons I find your "theory" incredibly unlikely is because I can't fathom an anti-town faction EVER killing chesskid on N1. I find a doc protect on one of the "confirmed" players or a RB on the Stark killer much more likely.

In other words, I disagreed with you, and somehow disagreeing with you makes me scummy. Get over it. In my experience, doctors or role blockers are very rarely that lucky on the first night, and if Chesskid was not the Stark kill, there would be two unexplained deaths last night instead of one. The simplest explanation is most often true, and here the simplest explanation was that Chesskid was killed by the Starks.

If you knew all along you had killed Chesskid, what was the purpose of asking me about it? And by the way, you're being real funny accusing me of having inside information, when it was in fact you who had it.

Nice try, but no. My vote was on a player the Hand had said was off limits (ie a player they would use the governor power on). Therefore I moved my vote. But now that I've dug into your play some more its STARTLINGLY clear that this vote is infinitely better. Why are you trying to twist the events to make me look bad?

I'm not. At the time you voted me, you had not yet dug into my play, you just accused me of having inside information. The way you moved your vote to me looked like you were just using Benmage as an excuse.

LOL! People, please look at Feysal squirm here. He actually wants town cred for his play in regards to diddin yesterday. That play SCREAMED distancing scum. Go back and look at it, seriously. As for your Raivann case, it has been pointed out MULTIPLE times that the interactions of diddin and Raivann do not look scummy, and if you SERIOUSLY believe your 1 scum team theory, shouldn't that make Raivann less likely scum? Why do you keep ignoring this?

LOL! People, please look at LynchMePls resort to rhetoric here. He actually is dodging my question about him also voting Raivann. That play was only different from mine in that I noticed diddin also and he did not. Go back and look at it, seriously. As for the Raivann case, it has been pointed out several times that the interactions of diddin and Raivann do look scummy and there may have been bussing involved, and Raivann continues to look scummy for not having been able to explain his play. I have not ignored the counterarguments, I simply do not believe them.

Two can play that game.

ONCE AGAIN YOU ARE TRYING TO DISTORT THE FACTS. Here are the posts one more time, in the order of their occurance:

Now, where in that first post do you EVER state that your view on LL is NOT from the interactions with DGB and zoraster? Also, it DOESN'T MATTER if you claim you had a town read on him and it was then BOLSTERED by DGB/Zoraster interactions. The fact is that you IMPLY that interactions with DGB/Zoraster (who you are calling scummy) make LL more likely town. But that can only be true if you believe there is only 1 scum team, OTHERWISE IT WOULD MEAN ONLY THAT HE ISN'T PARTNERS WITH DGB/ZORASTER.

I am not trying to distort the facts, but you apparently are. Whether that is out of malice or incompetence remains to be seen.

What you're saying there is completely unintelligible. That first post of mine did not say that my view of Locke would not be based on interactions with DGB or zoraster. It also did not say I would not like to eat peanuts. The way this works is that you need to prove that I said something and explain why it is scummy. I do not need to disprove something I never said in the first place.

I have never said or implied that my town read on Locke would have anything to do with either DGB or zoraster.

Straight from the horses FUCKING mouth! First, "I have never said that I would find Locke town based on any interaction with DGB or Zoraster" is a lie. We've all seen the quote, so I don't think I need to explain why its a lie. He still refuses to acknowledge that being "more confident of Locke being town" REQUIRES the belief of 1 scum team, yet on D1 he was specifically saying that he thought there were two teams.

Yes, you do need to explain why it is a lie. You keep saying I have lied, but that don't make it so.

You need to prove it.

I love how when you move your vote because of Benmage's requirement that is just fine, but when I did you try to tar it as some sort of scummy action. Hypocrisy FTW!

I made a case. You did not. You just sucked up to Benmage and voted me without saying why.

WHY! What on EARTH was townie about that post, it was FULL of completely FAIL responses to the case! OMG I feel like I'm taking crazy pills.

Great, more rhetoric. I can do that too. Your case on me is pure fail, and it looks like you took those crazy pills already. See how much use saying that was? No? Me neither.

I'm calling TS/Feysal scum team right now.

If you want to embarrass yourself, go right ahead, don't let me stop you. Whether you succeed in getting me mislynched or not, my opinion of you will suffer from this. Fact remains, your case is about you not believing I would be competent enough to have the opinions I have without inside information, while at the same time accusing me of not playing at my fullest potential. The first point is insulting, and combined with the second it is ridiculous.

You mention in passing not liking his attack on Magua. You then say you have a scummy feel about him but won't put a vote there until you've read the whole thread and you will have to ISO read him. In your next post, you say you're all caught up but you don't mention diddin AT ALL. Seems pretty clear you never bothered to ISO him. It'd be one thing if after your read you no longer saw him as scummy, but that's supposedly not the case. The next (and only other thing) you say about him is this post I find so scummy where you throw in the little honorary "And from diddin". At the time you made this post, if you still had a scummy feel from him, why is this ALL you've said about him? Why didn't you bother to ISO him? Why didn't you mention him at all once you'd finished the thread?

There seems to be something amiss here. I did mention diddin in the post where I said I was completely caught up, that was the "And from diddin" post. Reason I did not say anything more about him was that while I still found him and zoraster scummy, I found both DGB and Raivann scummier, so I focused on the one I found scummiest.

As I've said, I think the reason is you were covering your bases. Every time you mentioned diddin D1 you called him scum, but did nothing else. Kept yourself open to bus him while keeping your vote and "suspicions" firmly elsewhere.

One question about this, would this not be something town could do as well? Do you expect me to push all of my scum reads with equal fervor, regardless of how scummy I find them? I pushed my main suspect and left my secondary suspects for later.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Looking at the player list DTM and Kast really need to pick-up their contributions to the thread.

--

LMP, are you claiming SK?

I doubt it. He’s claiming a killing role. If he is a SK outing himself like that would be very foolish, and border on not playing to win, IMO.

--

@Twilight Sparkle

– If you haven’t already please answer the following question posed by Zdenek –

Why would Kast cease to be scummy if there is more than one scum team?

In other TS posting –

If you're curious, the specific thing that pinged my gut was the Lite-Brite comment (well, that whole argument, but that's a handy keyword for it) to GreyICE.

I think that anyone who haughtily refuses requests to be more readable is very likely scum

. But from what I've seen of you, you'd do that regardless of alignment.

Bolded for emphasis – that’s bullshit. My posts are no less readable than any other players who post in dense style, several of which are in this game. I don’t request that you stop flooding the thread with My Little Pony pics or didn’t request GreyICE stop any Caps Lawk activity. I don’t find those make posts more readable myself.

As for the Lite-Brite comment – GreyICE was quite frankly being a loudmouth prick. As I stated before I tend to respond to players like that in-kind. If you think that is scummy that’s your choice.

We think Thor has a very large chance of flipping scum, we think Raivann has a fairly large chance of flipping scum, and a scumflip on one virtually confirms the other as town. There's no contradiction here.

Why does it confirm the other as Town? Wouldn’t it confirm the other as “Not Stark / Whatever faction the first flips” aligned? That doesn’t make sense to me.

--

@MoI- Ok fine I'll answer your disingenuous question- No, I wasn't scared. I wanting to know and maybe put in my 2 cents.

I never said you were scared so why are you making a point that I suggest you were. I specficially was showing how your reads appear borrowed and fake. Hint – questioning your play isn’t being disingenuous.

--

@MOI: Also, why is Feysal better for a vig than lynching? We have pretty clear meta and in game behavioral reasons to think he is scum. While I certainly sympathize with the TS wagon, why is it so much better than Feysal?

From the standpoint of the information available before you dropped your ‘Info’ bomb just now I have thought that TS (and Thor and Nexus and Bunnylover) have been more suspicious than Feysal directly. I’m never going to directly press a lynch driven mostly by Meta (strong as it might be) over in-game scum play. Of course now I am going to have to re-evaluated Feysal’s statements in context of your info.

I will say it is suspect that Feysal suddenly springs to life and starts posting right after his scum-meta is voiced.

STARKS DIDN'T KILL CHESSKID, I DID. Discuss.

I pray to God you know what you are doing. That said the concept of a Serial Killer or second Mafia group looks to be more probable if you are claiming Town aligned killer and diddin not being your kill.

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I wouldn't know, I've never read the books.

Supplementing your theory with skimmed knowledge from a wiki with no direct source material knowledge is pretty bad play, IMO.

Of course. Who else? Unless you're suggesting we had a lucky doctor or role blocker, the Starks must have killed Chesskid. My theory is that they thought he was Tywin, and killed him thinking he would be a power role.

My question about your thoughts – they all sprung from one of Raivann’s WIFOM “Why was Chesskid killed” posts. If your suspicion of Raivann of scum is so high why would you answer his post directly as opposed to questioning his possible scum motivation for bringing up the Nightkill speculation?

The last person I saw making this argument was town, and also wrong. He went on to mislynch the player accused of undermining an obvtown player, and the obvtown player was indeed scum. In other words, no one is above suspicion, at least not reasonable suspicion.

1. You say ‘the last person you saw’. This indicates you have seen others making that argument. What were the outcomes of those.
2. Benmage made that exact observation in Clash and was dead-on. Additionally I see it elsewhere on site on a regular basis. Is your theory that an isolated incident that went the opposite of expecations should weigh more than other examples?

Besides, both are being suspected for issues not directly related to their play, Twilight Sparkle for not living up to expectations from a hydra with three strong players, two of them on V/LA, and Thor for posting without being entirely caught up after replacing in.

Twilight Sparkle is being suspected for more than just that. This attempt to minimize the rest of the case against them is noted.

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@Everyone else: Should we assume now that their is two scum teams, and one of the teams where blocked?

You should not assume anything. Assuming LMP isn’t lying (and I have no reason to think he is) you should keep your mind open to multiple possibililies like –

1. There are two full fledged Scum teams and one (the Starks) had their kill blocked or protected against.
2. That the Stark kill was redirected and hit diddin.
3. There is one Mafia team and multiple Town / 3rd Party killing roles.
4. That the Starks also targeted Chess and the lack of kill flavor covers up the overkill.

There are many other possible options also. Deciding you know what actually happened Day 2 based on very limited information is not smart Town play.