The Mafia with the Hydras - Game Over!


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Post Post #200 (ISO) » Wed Mar 02, 2011 2:16 pm

Post by TheButtonmen »

The Top Of The Page Vote Count:

DaSpotthatkillsu (3) - Balam, Unicorn, Final Destination
Pathetric (2) - Beaver, Greymarble
Final Destination (2) - YosCayke, Frog Ergo Sum
Unicorn (2) - Reckamonic, DaSpotthatkillsu
Mrs Flay (1) - Mrs Flay
Frog Ergo Sum (1) - Untrod Stranger

Question for all of my players:

Do you prefer vote counts edited into the first post of each page or that they are in separate posts which will probably not be at the top of every page?
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Post Post #201 (ISO) » Wed Mar 02, 2011 2:32 pm

Post by Frogito Ergo Sum »

We are in favour of edited VCs.

@Greymarble, easy. Fate is very aggressive and active as town. Final Destination has not been aggressive or especially active. There's ample scum motive since his town style is hard to emulate and furthermore, we've seen him try to clean up his act in Wait your turn, Tex and the difference wasn't nearly as big there. So yep, that's a good meta-based argument.
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Post Post #202 (ISO) » Wed Mar 02, 2011 2:33 pm

Post by Frogito Ergo Sum »

Oh and more people should trust Yos' ability to read Ether.
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Post Post #203 (ISO) » Wed Mar 02, 2011 2:42 pm

Post by GummyBear »

Just checking in after catching up in another game. This one's next.

We like separate posts from the mod because then it's easier to ISO the mod for vote counts, etc.


Quick note about FES's meta on Fate: I've seen Fate very aggressive as scum, too. Though I agree with it being odd that he and AGM are so silent this game. AGM tends to sheep Fate, so I don't see why he would feel the need to pull back (unless he's learned from his mistakes with his Edge hydra :roll: )

-Singer

The FD meta change is too blatant to be a scumtell. It's clearly intentional, so it's null for me.

-quadz
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Post Post #204 (ISO) » Wed Mar 02, 2011 4:52 pm

Post by DaSpotthatkillsu »

I don't have my others' reads/case yet But I will say that any meta case on fate is bull-s***. In wait your turn tex, I saw a graduation from calm fate to rage-ragey fate. In this case it foolish to think he would go rage in the first place, he has a QT to do that in. Afterwhich all he'd have to do is to let AGM post a rough translation of what fate says with fate's approval.

Also I think I speak for my partner when I say we have a objection to the way FES has played the entire game thus far.

I DO HOPE THAT DANA POSTS SOMETHING IN THE QT SOON OR WE WILL HAVE WORDS.

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Post Post #205 (ISO) » Wed Mar 02, 2011 5:44 pm

Post by Final Destination »

Unvote:
Vote: FES


We've come to the agreement that Dana's STILL lack of reads is pretty scummy, but when all is said and done it might just be a lack of co-ordination in their QT. Which is almost exactly parallel to the situation AGM and I had the first few days. We'll be awaiting this promised reads and content finally, and have a keen eye still on Dana, but the FES wagon is where its at.

He, on the other hand, has no excuse for his minimal contribution to this game. He seems quite content to sit on our burned out wagon, citing the worst of worst reasons:
We are in favour of edited VCs.

@Greymarble, easy. Fate is very aggressive and active as town. Final Destination has not been aggressive or especially active. There's ample scum motive since his town style is hard to emulate and furthermore, we've seen him try to clean up his act in Wait your turn, Tex and the difference wasn't nearly as big there. So yep, that's a good meta-based argument.
Things wrong with this are as follows:

1. Besides using meta as the entirety of his case being extremely weak,
2. FES uses SOLELY FATE'S meta in his post. What kind of logical fallacy is this? That since Fate is part of the hydra, if it is not posting like Fate's "town style" it is scum. Seriously, AGM's name isn't even MENTIONED in this post.
3. Using other game examples of me "trying something new" to imply that unless I fail miserably at cleaning up my act I'm scum... as if it were impossible for me to improve. I'll admit I didn't give Tex's game HALF as much effort at this one D1, since I basically treated it like a marathon/mechanic based game and didn't take it seriously at all. This game isn't an attempt to "clean up my act" btw, as I said earlier its an attempt to apply my hydra philosophy (that both heads shoul dagree on everything before posting) to a HYDRA BASED game. This results in more thought out posts, less caps (hard to CAPS when co-writing something), and... yeah.

4. AGM wants to list a fuckton of my games where I emulate my town style, which is apparently "difficult," as scum. If you're going to use meta to sit on a wagon, at least
get it fucking right.




We didn't like FES' position on our wagon, which scum definitely got a taste of. With Yosarian swearing on his life and FES encouraging his reads that Ether is town, we're forced to narrow it down to it being FES. This is the wagon today.

[AGM Approved]
Mod editied from the next post which was under the wrong account wrote:[AGM]
gummy wrote:Quick note about FES's meta on Fate: I've seen Fate very aggressive as scum, too. Though I agree with it being odd that he and AGM are so silent this game. AGM tends to sheep Fate, so I don't see why he would feel the need to pull back (unless he's learned from his mistakes with his Edge hydra
1) The "silent" argument is completely false - we have produced more content than more than half the playerlist combined. Untrod Stranger, Reckamonic, Balam, BeaverWesel, and Mrs. Flay … go read those people and get back to us on the "silent" issue.
2) Your reference for AGM sheeping Fate is like what, one game? Terrible meta tell.
3) We have already stated that we are taking a unilateral approach to this game. We discuss and agree on all posts before we make them. This necessarily leads to less posting because we have to both be on at the same time to talk before we can make a post.
4) You are refuting yourself. Obviously Edge was completely out of control, so it would logically make sense that Fate would try something different this time.

[FATE APPROVED]
Last edited by TheButtonmen on Wed Mar 02, 2011 6:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post Post #206 (ISO) » Wed Mar 02, 2011 6:02 pm

Post by AlmasterGM »

Mod edit: I'm putting this into the preceding post for ISO purposes.
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Post Post #207 (ISO) » Wed Mar 02, 2011 6:04 pm

Post by Final Destination »

[AGM]
gummy wrote:Quick note about FES's meta on Fate: I've seen Fate very aggressive as scum, too. Though I agree with it being odd that he and AGM are so silent this game. AGM tends to sheep Fate, so I don't see why he would feel the need to pull back (unless he's learned from his mistakes with his Edge hydra
1) The "silent" argument is completely false - we have produced more content than more than half the playerlist combined. Untrod Stranger, Reckamonic, Balam, BeaverWesel, and Mrs. Flay … go read those people and get back to us on the "silent" issue.
2) Your reference for AGM sheeping Fate is like what, one game? Terrible meta tell.
3) We have already stated that we are taking a unilateral approach to this game. We discuss and agree on all posts before we make them. This necessarily leads to less posting because we have to both be on at the same time to talk before we can make a post.
4) You are refuting yourself. Obviously Edge was completely out of control, so it would logically make sense that Fate would try something different this time.

[FATE APPROVED]

(re-post on proper account)
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Post Post #208 (ISO) » Wed Mar 02, 2011 6:13 pm

Post by DaSpotthatkillsu »

Here are our scum reads. Kc and dana approved.

Pathetric


Posts 0-14
Says little of importance, posts a lot of fluff, and says that meta has value.
Post 15
Hypocritically tells someone else to post who the scum are.
Post 16
Puts some quotes together and votes without reasoning. It would help to know what the quoted posts do.
Post 25
Brushes off what Fate says and tells him to elaborate, something that they haven't done themselves. Yet another hypocritical command.
Post 29
Is wary of putting vote on their own scum read. "Feeling weird focusing on one person" has never happened to me as town.
Post 30
Takes pains to make sure everyone knows they are "obvtown", which obvtown wouldn't need to do.

Frogito Ergo Sum


Posts 0-9
Tunnels on us.
Post 10
Suddenly changes their mind and says we were probably playing badly, not scummily. Only...there's no unvote.
Post 13
Unvotes and votes Final Destination, who they had not mentioned, simply because of some scumhunting someone else did. Adds nothing to the discussion.
Post 16
Tries to rectroactively give a little reasoning and comes up with meta and "their response reeked of scummy". Not convincing at all. Still looks like a bandwagon vote.
Post 18
Tries to explain why meta works here, and doesn't succeed, since Fate would normally be going crazy as scum, too.

We put in links because quote-striping is stupid. VERY stupid.

I would like to vote here, but We need a votecount first.

ALSO MOD WE STILL WOULD LIKE A ANSWER AS TO WEATHER OR NOT SCUM HAS DAYTALK.
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Post Post #209 (ISO) » Wed Mar 02, 2011 6:19 pm

Post by DaSpotthatkillsu »

OH SCRATCH THAT LAST LAST ONE ABOUT NEEDING A VOTECOUNT...

derp..

VOTE: FES
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Post Post #210 (ISO) » Wed Mar 02, 2011 6:19 pm

Post by TheButtonmen »

Mod Edit: I'm generally not in the handing out setup information whenever I'm asked and as such I neither confirm nor deny the restrictions on when scum can talk.
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Post Post #211 (ISO) » Wed Mar 02, 2011 6:21 pm

Post by DaSpotthatkillsu »

^^^ oh... well... thank you in any case.
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Post Post #212 (ISO) » Wed Mar 02, 2011 8:41 pm

Post by Unicorn Brethren »

Unicorn Brethren wrote:
DaSpotthatkillsu wrote:I called the UB scummier than us without voting them. That's because I don't find them to be the scummiEST.
Why don't you give us a list of who you think is scum
and who you think is town
, and why.

Thanks in advance.
Unicorn Brethren wrote:Oh, and
be sure to include everyone in the game on your list, and comments for each.


And just to be very clear: Ambiguity on nearly every slot is not an option. You will die.
Because Dspot missed this, apparently.
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Post Post #213 (ISO) » Wed Mar 02, 2011 8:57 pm

Post by Greymarble »

Dammit Fate, stop stealing my thunder. I had a mild town read on FES, but no, he went and posted that.

Vote: FES


Did you even read post #142? Y'know, right when you mentioned them not being aggressive and all?

Though I do kinda find the hydra arguing with itself in thread hysterical in the right context
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Post Post #214 (ISO) » Wed Mar 02, 2011 10:28 pm

Post by Mrs Flay »

Responding to a prod. There's been a bit of in-fighting among our heads, we'll update you sometime not so skullfucking early in the morning
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Post Post #215 (ISO) » Thu Mar 03, 2011 12:24 am

Post by Frogito Ergo Sum »

Final Destination wrote:1. Besides using meta as the entirety of his case being extremely weak,
2. FES uses SOLELY FATE'S meta in his post. What kind of logical fallacy is this? That since Fate is part of the hydra, if it is not posting like Fate's "town style" it is scum. Seriously, AGM's name isn't even MENTIONED in this post.
3. Using other game examples of me "trying something new" to imply that unless I fail miserably at cleaning up my act I'm scum... as if it were impossible for me to improve. I'll admit I didn't give Tex's game HALF as much effort at this one D1, since I basically treated it like a marathon/mechanic based game and didn't take it seriously at all. This game isn't an attempt to "clean up my act" btw, as I said earlier its an attempt to apply my hydra philosophy (that both heads shoul dagree on everything before posting) to a HYDRA BASED game. This results in more thought out posts, less caps (hard to CAPS when co-writing something), and... yeah.

4. AGM wants to list a fuckton of my games where I emulate my town style, which is apparently "difficult," as scum. If you're going to use meta to sit on a wagon, at least get it fucking right.
1. That's not the entirety of our case, as should be evident from the way we phrased it. The main thrust of our case is #142, which is a weird overreaction that intentionally focuses on the weaker parts of the meta arguments and tries to dismiss the stronger parts by suggesting they must be similar.
2. We don't feel sufficiently familiar with AGM's meta to make that type of argument about him. Certainly the hydra nature of your slot makes meta-based arguments harder to apply, but when the difference is this big, they're definitely still applicable.
3. We're having a hard time believing there wouldn't be any room for a more boisterous Fate in this new framework. It is clear that part of the change is intentional; that doesn't fully explain your behaviour.
4. You can start by linking us one.
Spot wrote:Tunnels on us.
Someone doesn't understand early-game bandwagonning.
Spot wrote:Suddenly changes their mind and says we were probably playing badly, not scummily. Only...there's no unvote.
Shanba was not yet familiar with the ways of the hydra.
Spot wrote:Tries to rectroactively give a little reasoning and comes up with meta and "their response reeked of scummy". Not convincing at all. Still looks like a bandwagon vote.
I mentioned the defense as being weaksauce in the original voting post.
Greymarble wrote:Did you even read post #142? Y'know, right when you mentioned them not being aggressive and all?
#142 is the main reason we're voting for Final Destination. Seeing as it was made by AGM, I don't see how it would be relevant to our Fatemeta argument.
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Post Post #216 (ISO) » Thu Mar 03, 2011 4:22 am

Post by YosFlavouredCayke »

Its yos, you have to agree with him :roll:

All jokes aside, yes I agree that Frogito's jump onto the Final Destonation was opportunistic, but that's not always scummy. Lazy yes, but not always scummy.

I also agree very much with Yos' read on Ether. Ether doesn't say she's town unless she's town.

-cayke
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Post Post #217 (ISO) » Thu Mar 03, 2011 5:03 am

Post by Untrod Stranger »

We dont see post #142 as some wild scummy overreaction. If anything, its just AGM getting upset because people are trying to claim that he gets to sits in Fate's shadow as some bumbling sidekick. Which means that trying to lynch someone with 1 single point, and a weaksauce one at that, is pretty lousy and scummy.

Hey Froggy, being belligerent and insulting to everyone thats pointing out your scummy behavior isnt really helping your defense either. We can add that as argument as to why FES needs to hang.

Our vote stays.
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Post Post #218 (ISO) » Thu Mar 03, 2011 6:15 am

Post by DaSpotthatkillsu »

Our agreed-upon townreads are Final Destination, Untrod Stranger, and probably Gummy Bear. If you think we're going to give more reasons for those than you yourself are willing to, though, you're dead wrong. We'd rather not give scum any more hints, if that's quite alright with you. And we're also not going to try to give an unambiguous read on every slot in the game, because that's just dumb, and nobody does it.
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Post Post #219 (ISO) » Thu Mar 03, 2011 6:17 am

Post by YosFlavouredCayke »

How was froggy being "beligernt" or "insulting"? He responded rationally and logically to the (fairly weak) case against him. You need to explain this to me, untrod, because I don't get what you're trying to say.

I honestly don't understand your vote for him at all. You don't agree with his meta read on Fate, so that makes him scum? I can understand you not being convinced by it, but it seemed rational and reasoanble, especally as a part of a day 1 case. And now you're voting him for being "insulting"? Who did he insult? DaSpot, for misunderstanding an early day 1 wagon vote as being a "tunnel"? I don't get your point here, UT.

-Yos
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Post Post #220 (ISO) » Thu Mar 03, 2011 6:40 am

Post by Untrod Stranger »

Ok, Yos, I will concede your point in which the wrong words were used. A better word would be condescending.

Despite that, youre ignoring the initial points that initally aroused suspicion on FOS in the first place aswell as the opinion thats others have since placed. Was that deliberate in your part, Yos?

We also notice that you also happen to be other group fixated on this Final D bandwagon and still has a vote there. Is that on purpose? Is this some kind of defense for the FOS? Doesnt this look a tad suspicious on your part? You fail to mention exactly why you wouldnt vote for FOS, why is that?

Why put yourself out there with such an obvious link, Yos? Would this not look bad on you when FOS flips scum?
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Post Post #221 (ISO) » Thu Mar 03, 2011 6:56 am

Post by Final Destination »

I've been WAITING eagerly for what Yos would say after AGM finally got together and produced content:

Nothing. Not a single comment on our views of the game, our elaboration of our reads (and if Ether is that easily read as town, well I'll be having fun at Goofbash for one), and basically the extreme info dump on this thread we produced.

My read? YosCayke can't attack it. He finds no flaws that he can elaborate on and push anymore, since his latest reasoning "lolufind etherscum? u are soooo scum" has grown outdated and irrelevant. That hydras newest focus, first Cayke on FES: saying his jump was lazy but not scummy, offering NO INSIGHT why her vote was still on me, and then Yos-who I was in particularly waiting for since he posted extensively elsewhere before coming here, all of which give us really bad vibes.

Then when he does post, what is it? Him not "seeing" UStranger's case on FES? For all his "not seeing" he sure does a lot of "not showing" where is own reads stand. As far as I can tell, he he has Ether as obvtown and us as obvscum, but has dodges responding to any of our posts, which would further the case on us which has become so unpopular.

We'll see what AGM says on the matter, but as it stands I'm still content with FES wagon since I'm sure at least one of Yos/FES is scum.
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Post Post #222 (ISO) » Thu Mar 03, 2011 6:58 am

Post by Final Destination »

Also, I find his lack of "Why is FD town?" remark in response to Ether's latest reads (one would think if they were BOTH town they'd be more willing to form a bloc. Speaking of said reads, even Ether is hesitant to give a Yos a town slot, his play is just that off) particularly scummy.

So how about it? You're obvtownbuddybuddy target has declared this slot town Yos, why are you not willing to contest her on the issue and instead go off on side-tangents with FES v. The World?
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Post Post #223 (ISO) » Thu Mar 03, 2011 7:30 am

Post by BeaverWeasel »

So I have access again.

Not sure where my other head went.

Will catch up when I am not running out the door for work.
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Post Post #224 (ISO) » Thu Mar 03, 2011 10:12 am

Post by Ether »

I don't really get the case on Fez. I think my other head will question them when he's not off playing chess.

Having said that, Fez's vote is most likely wrong.
Post 222, Fate wrote:Speaking of said reads, even Ether is hesitant to give a Yos a town slot, his play is just that off
Excuse me?
Post 208, DaSpot wrote:Is wary of putting vote on their own scum read. "Feeling weird focusing on one person" has never happened to me as town.
Okay. How do you propose to distinguish between {Balam, Flaygang, GummyBear, Mastin, Reckmon}, then, beyond requesting prods and waiting? At least two and possibly three of that group are the scum.

-Ether
As I move my vote
Towards your wagon, town is taking note
It fills my head up and gets louder and
LOUDER

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