The Mafia with the Hydras - Game Over!

[Pathetric]

I don't really get the case on Fez. I think my other head will question them when he's not off playing chess.

Having said that, Fez's vote is most likely wrong.

Speaking of said reads, even Ether is hesitant to give a Yos a town slot, his play is just that off

Excuse me?

Is wary of putting vote on their own scum read. "Feeling weird focusing on one person" has never happened to me as town.

Okay. How do you propose to distinguish between {Balam, Flaygang, GummyBear, Mastin, Reckmon}, then, beyond requesting prods and waiting? At least two and possibly three of that group are the scum.

-Ether

[YosFlavouredCayke]

Ok, Yos, I will concede your point in which the wrong words were used. A better word would be condescending.

Meh. In any given mafia game on this site, something like 75% of the people in the game will act in a condescending way to someone else at some point. The other 25% are lurkers.

Despite that, youre ignoring the initial points that initally aroused suspicion on FOS in the first place aswell as the opinion thats others have since placed. Was that deliberate in your part, Yos?

(shrug) I don't agree with your initial points, but I didn't have any specific reason to jump in and defend Froggy on them at that time. Sometimes, it's better to let someone defend themselves, you get more information that way. I only questioned you about your later post since it seemed to be just flat out factually inaccurate.

However, since you ask, I'll be glad to give you my thoughts on your initial attack on froggy.

Youre all wrong. Frogito is your scum.

Look at their posts. All that Frogito has done is wait for bandwagons to grow just big enough to hop on unceremoniously. Has no strong opinions, but yet jumps on the biggest wagons at the time. The posts are clearly used to state that they are around, but not really contributing much other than a walking meatvote.

And the cincher is that insencere warning about the L-1. That line sounded like a surreptious invitation for someone to hammer. Notice he wasnt afraid of the quickhammer, otherwise he wouldnt have voted. So then why put up a warning?

Vote:Frogito Ergo Scum

Your first point seems to be that Frog is bandwagoning a lot. On day 1, I don't see that as a scumtell at all, especially since I more or less agree with his votes. A lot of people have the mafia-theory idea that it's good and pro-town to bandwagon pretty much at will on day 1, to get the game moving, to get information flowing, to get reactions. I don't see that as scummy at all, at least not in a vaccum.

Your second point, that he "has no strong opinions", doesn't seem to be correct. He clearly disagreed with Ether's gummy vote, for example.

Your third point, about the lynch -1 warning, is also kind of iffy. I generally think it's a good idea to make it clear when someone is at lynch -1, to prevent anyone from hammering accidentally. Even if you think the person in question should be hammered, the town gets more information from making sure that it's clearly established beforehand that the person who drops the hammer knew he was doing it.

All in all, I think your case on Froggy is weak and unconvincing.

We also notice that you also happen to be other group fixated on this Final D bandwagon and still has a vote there. Is that on purpose? Is this some kind of defense for the FOS? Doesnt this look a tad suspicious on your part? You fail to mention exactly why you wouldnt vote for FOS, why is that?

Huh? I explained why I'm suspicious of Final D, and all those reasons still apply. I think he's committed several scum tells, especially in the way both halves of the hydra reacted to pressure, and at the moment he's the person I'd most like to see lynched today. I'm not sure what that has to do with the froggy votes, especially since I was voting for Final D long before anyone voted for froggy.

Why put yourself out there with such an obvious link, Yos? Would this not look bad on you when FOS flips scum?

What the heck kind of question is that? If you want me to vote for froggy, you need to convince me froggy is more likely to be scum then anyone else. Trying to scare me into voting him with vague threats about spurious links to someone who doesn't look especially likely to be scum to me right now isn't going to change my opinion of him at all.

-Yos

[Pathetric]

Yosarian, you're gonna sheep on me when I vote the real scum, right? I mean, extracurricular activity is fine in the meantime.

-Ether

[YosFlavouredCayke]

I've been WAITING eagerly for what Yos would say after AGM finally got together and produced content:

Nothing. Not a single comment on our views of the game, our elaboration of our reads (and if Ether is that easily read as town, well I'll be having fun at Goofbash for one), and basically the extreme info dump on this thread we produced.

(shrug)

I think your suspicion of DaSpotthatkillsu is reasonable; I don't have a good vibe on him, mostly because I have disagreed with pretty much everything he's said and done so far this game. I don't find your case on Froggy to be convincing, but I figured it's be more useful to see what his response to it was then to jump in and defend him. Your unvote on Ether makes sense no matter what your alignment is, since you're obviously not going to get her lynched today. I'm glad you're posting and are active, but nothing you've said yet cancels out your earlier scumtells.

If you have anything specific you want me to respond to, I'll be glad to do so.

(And, by the way: Yes, Ether is sometimes quite easy to read, especially face to face. The funniest example was back at one of the BeachBash meets, when I said "Ether, are you scum?" and she hesitated, and then said "...no?" Her scum play has improved somewhat since then, but when she's obvtown, she's obvtown.)

-Yos

[Untrod Stranger]

Wow Yos, are we talking about the same person? We ISO'ed Froggy yet again, and we dont see where this fabolous reasoning and Baman-like deductions are at; Were they posted under another name? The only time Froggy ever woke up was when we started shining a giantass spotlight on them. Even then, all they did was prattle on about AGM channeling some FATERAGE meta nonsense and the defensive equivalent of "Im not scum!"

And we never said hat Froggy was bandwagoning A LOT either. Nice attempt at misinformation there. He hopped on two wagons that were highly opportunistic. Thats more than enough to attempt to skim the surface and hide in the scummy shadows.

But even on top of all that, in our opinion, your basic defense of him is "We want to lynch Final D and so does he, so he clearly must be town". Since when did Froggy hire Yos to be his Johnny Cochran anyways?

The fact remains that Froggy is clearly the scummiest of them all here, its a just a matter of time for everyone else to realize and start voting. People that hesitate and start trying to misdirect the situation at this point are also likely scum.

FOS: Yos

[Balam]

This posting head received a prod and some death threats in our QuickTopic. Sorry. Give me a moment to catch up and I will give you our thoughts.

[YosFlavouredCayke]

first Cayke on FES: saying his jump was lazy but not scummy, offering NO INSIGHT why her vote was still on me,

My vote is on you because I agree with my partner and his read on you, i'm pretty sure he covered it too soooooo........

What more do you want from me?


@US 229: *facepalm.* Could you link me to what you're reading? Cuz i'm pretty sure its not in this thread.

~Cayke

[Pathetric]

This posting head received a prod and some death threats in our QuickTopic. Sorry. Give me a moment to catch up and I will give you our thoughts.

Yeah. Where the hell were you people?

-Ether

[YosFlavouredCayke]

Pardon me, UT, but, uh, was any of that post in response to anything I just said? Are you responding to some post you read in a parellel universe?

When did I say that Froggy had "fabolous reasoning" or "batman like deductions"? When did I say "we want to lynch final D and so does he, so he must be town"? What the hell are you talking about?

And this is especially bizarre:

Since when did Froggy hire Yos to be his Johnny Cochran anyways?

You go out of your way to ask me about what I think about your case on froggy, and then FOS me for responding? Your case against him was weak. Joining bandwagons on day 1 with minimal reasoning is not a scum tell, pointing out when someone is at lynch -1 is not a scumtell, and everything else you said was just bluster and BS. I was willing to let you run with it and see what happened, since this is day 1 and all, but if you ask me what I think about it, I'm going to answer you. And now you're FOSing me for honestly answering your question?

Do you honestly think you can just railroad, threaten, and badger me, of all people, into joining a bad wagon for crap reasons?

-Yos

[TheButtonmen]

The Not Top Of The Page Vote Count:

Frog Ergo Sum (4) - Untrod Stranger,Final Destination, DaSpotthatkillsu, Greymarble
DaSpotthatkillsu (2) - Balam, Unicorn,
Final Destination (2) - YosCayke, Frog Ergo Sum
Unicorn (1) - Reckamonic
Mrs Flay (1) - Mrs Flay
Pathetric (1) - Beaver

[Frogito Ergo Sum]

He hopped on two wagons that were highly opportunistic.

We were on the Spotwagon before the game started.

P.S. We approve of FEZ as an abbreviation.

[YosFlavouredCayke]

Ok. I realized I didn't actually have a read on half the people in the game, so I went through and ISO's everyone I didn't have a solid read on (which was like 6 people, mostly because there are so many damn lurkers in this game). So, here's my analysis of everyone in the game at the moment. (Standard disclaimer, this is based on just the first 10 pages of day 1, expect reads and opinions to change wildly in the future based on new information, hunches, wild mood swings, and whatever I eat for breakfast, ect ect.)

Frogito Ergo Sum-Leaning town. Bandwagony tendencies are what I’d expect from CES. Most of the posts so far feel more like CES then like Shanba, based on my rough meta of the two of them; if I’m right about that, I’d like to hear some more from Shanba.

Pathetric-100% superdupertriplelooper obvtown

Gummybear-Eh. Less scummy when read in ISO then I was thinking off the top of my head. Thing with Ether is probably just a theory disagreement, and is consistant with earlier comments about UB and such. Null. I really do want to hear a read from them, though; they’ve said nothing about who they find suspicious or who the find town-ish at all. They promised they’d do so soon, and I hope to hear from them about it.

Final Destination-scummy.

Balam-Don’t really have a problem with the vote on DaSpotthatkillsu, although I am wondering why, exactally; only thing he said was that thing about sigs, and that’s not exacatlly a scumtell. He hasn’t done anything since. Borderline lurker; just responded to a prod; expect to hear from them soon.

Mrs. Flay-Severe lurker. Has yet to make a useful post this game. Needs to post or die. Guys, I know there’s 4 of you, and odds are Flameaxe has probably already flaked, so I’m not surprised you’re having trouble coming to a consensus, but that’s ok; if any of you has any opinion on anything, just post it and we’ll move on from there, or just post both sides of a disagreement you have, or something. You guys need to get some thoughts down into the thread.

Reckamonic-I don’t really get the attack on Unicorn. I guess it was a joke vote, ish, but he’s kept it on all game, possibly because they've been lurking since rvs. Needs to get in here and post.

Greymarble- Leaning town. I like the reasoning on Final Destination, and his reluctant conclusion that UB is probably town in his ISO post 10 and 12 feels really town to me.

Untrod Stranger- Could be tunneling town at this point. I don’t get why he’s so uber-committed to getting frog lynched that he’s willing to overcommit so heavily to the wagon and willing to mow down everyone who’s even remotely in his way, pretty much without any regard to facts or reason, and it’s especially odd considering that his case on frog really isn’t strong. Still, town tunnel like that so often I can’t really call it a scumtell.

BeaverWeasel-Has been mostly useless. Has been voting Pathetic all game and I have no idea why. Has also been lurking. If there’s one lurkerscum in this game, it might be this guy.

Unicorn Brethren- I think they’re probably town. A bunch of different people posting from this account, but they all give good vibes, they all make sense to me, in different ways.

DaSpotthatkillsu- Borderline scummy.

Summery:
Town: Ether.
Leaning town: Greymarble, frog, unicorn.
Null-ish: Gummybear, US.
Lurking: Mrs Flay, Balam, Reck.
Lurkerscum: Balam.
Borderline Scummy: DaSpot
Scummy: Final Destiation.

-Yos

[Balam]

An explanation of our lacking presence: we had decided pre-game to have this hydra be a one head posts style hydra. Our inspiration for this was the high quality of play from copper, a well known hydra. We see now that it is not effective if the designated posting head is not guaranteed to be available at consistent times.

I am of the opinion that YFC, as Fate pointed out, is off. I dislike the feel surrounding the Y[os]FC / Ether buddying, and I get the feeling of YFC tying to latch on to a town Ether. Ethe likes being affirmed, so I feel the level at which Yos joined with Ether while not really talking about anything else and letting it slide by is suspect.

Currently of the opinion that these people are town: Pathetric (As yos said, easy to read), FD (Fate is easy to read when you've been in a few games with him, and his posting here is sincere), and DSTKU (meta, not particularly strong of a read and we aren't in agreement within the hydra about this).

Neutral / Null reads: Untrod Stranger (Some good posting, but not enough), GummyBear (Not enough posts outside the Ether / SS debate to tell, and that left a slight edge of scum for me and edge of town for the rest of the hydra), and Reckamonic (Not enough posts).

Scum reads: YFC and FES. YFC's recent posting makes my read here less certain, but I really don't like the feeling I get whenever I read Yos + Ether interactions earlier in the thread. FES has overall not much in the way of content as I look through their postings. I don't approve of the FD vote, but that may just be due to differing reads. There's very little to look at that makes me have good vibes with a lot of commentary that essentially does null to the discussion. This read isn't as solid amongst the heads as it is on the YFC read.

I'll go out on a limb and vote where my mouth is:

Unvote, Vote: YFC

[Balam]

Oh, I seem to have missed some people in the game in that list. Greymarble's a very slight town read based upon his end disagreement surrounding the FD lynch, which was rather good posting. Mrs. Flay is null until they do something. BW's also null due to lack of recent content with a slight town edge. UB is null for me, but there is disagreement amongst us regarding that.

[YosFlavouredCayke]

I am of the opinion that YFC, as Fate pointed out, is off. I dislike the feel surrounding the Y[os]FC / Ether buddying, and I get the feeling of YFC tying to latch on to a town Ether. Ethe likes being affirmed, so I feel the level at which Yos joined with Ether while not really talking about anything else and letting it slide by is suspect.

"Buddying" is a terrible scumtell. If someone is obviously town, and there's multiple people voting for them, I'm sure as hell going to say so. Giving reads on people who are town is a good idea anyway. In any case, pro-town people should work together, and when multiple pro-town people figure out each other's alignment and form a pro-town voting block, it makes it much harder for scum to win.

I don't know who ever came up with the idea "hey, whenever person A says person B is town it's scummy", but they were wrong. The whole taboo on defending someone or saying when you think they're town is just bad mafia theory.

-Yos

[YosFlavouredCayke]

Also, I've always found it amusing how absolutely predictable it is that, whenever I call out a bunch of lurkers, one of them almost always suddenly appears out of nowhere within a half hour of being called out and votes for me.

-Yos

[Balam]

It is less your level of saying Ether is town and more the wholesale agreement with pretty much everything Ether was saying at the time regarding FD without giving anything more than glazed commentary on things not spoken about by Ether (at the time, not as of current).

Preview Edit: I didn't notice the time. Thanks for pointing it out. We've actually had this belief since the FD discussion but had been waiting for the posting head to have time to post. Needless to say, they haven't, so I've started posting as well.

[Pathetric]

Ethe likes being affirmed, so I feel the level at which Yos joined with Ether while not really talking about anything else and letting it slide by is suspect.

That's a funny story. Yosarian was indeed acting kinda weird toward me early on, and that's

why

I decided he's probably town.

-Ether

[Frogito Ergo Sum]

I've been having the issue that every time I see something I want to post, either CES is not there for me to run it by or he's already posted something about it, leaving only redundancy in his wake . He's kindly deigned to let me take this one, though.

The yoshate is as distinctly bad as the FES hate.

FES has overall not much in the way of content as I look through their postings.

is pretty hilarious really. I'm extremely surprised that he'd choose to attack yos and not us, given there's already a wagon on us, and his reasoning is distinctly weak - people always call ether obvtown cause she IS obvtown most of the time. I'm not really feeling it yet - still don't think her vote on gummybear was particularly good - but CES thinks she's town so you know whatever.

[Pathetric]

We've actually had this belief

waiting for the posting head to have time

...

[Pathetric]

I'm not really feeling it yet - still don't think her vote on gummybear was particularly good - but CES thinks she's town so you know whatever.

Ohhhhhhhh Shanba. Poor paranoid little man.

-Ether (that last post was also Ether as usual)

[Yosarian2]

It is less your level of saying Ether is town and more the wholesale agreement with pretty much everything Ether was saying at the time regarding FD without giving anything more than glazed commentary on things not spoken about by Ether (at the time, not as of current).

Meh; at the time, I was basically just looking for a wagon to join, something to get the game moving. You don't need much of a reason to join an early day 1 wagon; the town's got to get started somewhere. Her arguments against gummy seemed reasonably logical; and even better, they were funny, which is a huge town-tell from Ether.

The way FD responded to pressure was what really gave me a stronger scum read on him; the early meta case against him seemed valid to me, but if it was just that, I might have moved on to a different vote by now.

I'm not really clear why Ether has decided FD is town now. If she wants to explain, that's cool; otherwise, like I just said to Cayke, let Ether wander off and be a loose cannon pointed in one direction, we'll wander off and be a loose cannon pointed in the other direction, and the scum's got to start falling out of the trees one way or the other.

-Yos

[YosFlavouredCayke]

bah, I keep doing that. I'll try to repost stuff I post with the wrong account here to make it easier for people doing iso's.

It is less your level of saying Ether is town and more the wholesale agreement with pretty much everything Ether was saying at the time regarding FD without giving anything more than glazed commentary on things not spoken about by Ether (at the time, not as of current).

Meh; at the time, I was basically just looking for a wagon to join, something to get the game moving. You don't need much of a reason to join an early day 1 wagon; the town's got to get started somewhere. Her arguments against gummy seemed reasonably logical; and even better, they were funny, which is a huge town-tell from Ether.

The way FD responded to pressure was what really gave me a stronger scum read on him; the early meta case against him seemed valid to me, but if it was just that, I might have moved on to a different vote by now.

I'm not really clear why Ether has decided FD is town now. If she wants to explain, that's cool; otherwise, like I just said to Cayke, let Ether wander off and be a loose cannon pointed in one direction, we'll wander off and be a loose cannon pointed in the other direction, and the scum's got to start falling out of the trees one way or the other.

-Yos

Oh, on an unrelated note; Balam, would you mind telling me who you're a hydra of, if you haven't already? Knowing that might make you easier to read.

[Pathetric]

Basically it is partly that AGM's fury makes a lot more sense in light of Greymarble claiming to have made shit up, and partly that it is very obvious that there is a crowd of lurkerscum and we have to make them die.

-Ether

[Balam]

We've actually had this belief

waiting for the posting head to have time

...

The Former Designated Posting Head speaking here. This head wanted to catch up in the game before posting the other heads' thoughts to ensure that the will of all the heads were incorporated, but as it turns out, I took too long. I'm still not caught up, actually, but we agreed that we needed to get a move on, and I've proven myself to be rather unreliable.

Balam, would you mind telling me who you're a hydra of, if you haven't already? Knowing that might make you easier to read.

Anonymous hydra. Since you asked, however, I'll see what the others say.