Mini 1126 - Game over - Was Averagely Suspicious saved?

[RobCapone]

I wondered that myself and can only come up speculations

1. Mafia thinks there could be a doc
2. My play is so scummy they are banking on still getting me lynched
3. I was so far off on who I suspected they figured, I'd never catch them

the question I wondered is why Snake and Ash.

Clearly Zito is the "town hero" and a pretty damn good mafia player, good players with town cred are usualyy taken out early so Why are you not dead Zito?

I know if I was mafia, you would have been my target

just like in GLB, you are a threat to scum and need to go ASAP

[Papa Zito]

Yeah. I expected to be dead coming in. I'm not sure why I'm here. My best guess was actually one of yours, that they were comfortable letting me live because there were easy mislynch targets available + my reads were bad.

That said, I still want to see Bill swing.

[RobCapone]

Need more posting from Hiraki, EA, and penpen too while we are waiting for Bill/Barry

[subgenius]

I would add EA to the list of people I'm slightly surprised to see alive today.

The more I think about it, the surer I feel that we don't have a vig. Neither Ash nor SE strike me as great vig targets. I think either penpen or Bill would have been the clear targets for a vig. I'm guessing we either have two scum groups or scum + sk.

[RobCapone]

I disagree, but I never agreed with zito that EA was confirmed town.

Tbh I'm not sure what to make of the no kill flavor ad I have never really seen that before. There should be something to diferentiate the kills. As we have the normal mod playing ill bite my tongue.

[subgenius]

Actually, I just re-read the flavor from D1 and D2, and there is some info to be found:

There was a note found next to the nameless murder victim of N0 which read, "You're next." There was an identical note found next to Ashblade. There was no note found with Snake Eyes.

This would lead me to believe that Ashblade was the mafia NK and Snake Eyes was hit by either a vig, a serial killer, or a non-note leaving second scum faction. I'm guessing SK.

[RobCapone]

Oh damn I missed that, good catch.

examine note for fingerprints

I wish lol

[RobCapone]

The bolded was a joke post sorry, where I play on GLB, they use off the wall mechanics like searching bodies and what not

[mozamis]

looking at the grey ice lynch again. Are we just missing the obvious? penpen said "happy now zito" when he dropped the hammer. Zito was very keen to lynch grey ice.
It seems too dumb, but if penpen is noob scum, could he have blundered, in other words saying to scum partner zito "happy now"?
Or pen pen sheep townie and zito scum?
What say you zito? You seem to be sailing thorugh this game with a "of course i'm town attitude, everyone knows i'm town!"
But you were one of the main instigstor of the lynch.

[penpen]

I still think Papa Zito is scum.
So my vote stays right where it's at.

[mozamis]

also zito, why have been anti bill all game, but as soon as grey ice was on Lynch-2 you voted for him? and encouraged others to hammer quickly?
overly enthusiastic townie or scum?

[Dekes]

Vote count 2.2

Bill McQuill (L-2): Papa Zito, RobCapone, Erratus Apathos, Barry Allen
penpen (L-4): mozamis, bvoigt
Papa Zito (L-4): penpen, subgenius

Not voting: Bill McQuill, Hiraki

With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch and 5 to no lynch.

Deadline is

March, 15th, at 04:30 a.m. EST

[subgenius]

I still think Papa Zito is scum.
So my vote stays right where it's at.

Who else do you think is scum, and why? Work must be shown for full credit to be given.

[penpen]

I still think Papa Zito is scum.
So my vote stays right where it's at.

Who else do you think is scum, and why? Work must be shown for full credit to be given.

Well alright how about bvoigt, he seems to be doing the whole active lurking thing too. And I think his case on me and Barry are complete bullshit.

[RobCapone]

also zito, why have been anti bill all game, but as soon as grey ice was on Lynch-2 you voted for him? and encouraged others to hammer quickly?
overly enthusiastic townie or scum?

Good questions

[bvoigt]

@mozamis: Don't discuss ongoing games.

Actually, I just re-read the flavor from D1 and D2, and there is some info to be found:

There was a note found next to the nameless murder victim of N0 which read, "You're next." There was an identical note found next to Ashblade. There was no note found with Snake Eyes.

This would lead me to believe that Ashblade was the mafia NK and Snake Eyes was hit by either a vig, a serial killer, or a non-note leaving second scum faction. I'm guessing SK.

Good catch. IIRC, Papa Zito was saying that Ashblade was probably a vig kill, so this makes him very likely to be town.

Well alright how about bvoigt, he seems to be doing the whole active lurking thing too. And I think his case on me and Barry are complete bullshit.

Oh, really? Why?

[RobCapone]

No bvoight it doesn't make zito town. He could be mafia saying that too

[mozamis]

well, i was merely saying that we lynched a lurker who was townie-how is that detrimental to either this game or the other one? is the dont discus other games a rule or some nonsense convention?
also, why does papa saying he thought ashblade was a vig kill make him town?Why are you so quick to rule out the possibility that he could be scum just saying that?

lol rob just got there as i was postin gthis

[bvoigt]

He could, but it's not very likely.

I'm reeeeeally hoping Ashblade was a vig shot, because a vig would be welcomed re: penpen.

If he was mafia, he'd know that Snake Eyes was not their kill.

Preview Edit: It's rule #2 of this game.

[mozamis]

re: other games ah ok then my bad sorry

[mozamis]

yeah but he could just be mafia pretending not to know that...*runs around in circles*
i dont think it proves anything either way.
like to hear what zito has to say as to his keeness to lynch grey ice.
furthermore, didnt find his "i was drunk" excuse all that brilliant.

[subgenius]

Good catch. IIRC, Papa Zito was saying that Ashblade was probably a vig kill, so this makes him very likely to be town.

Hm, I find myself agreeing with you. The whole issue with Zito neglecting to even entertain the possibility that SE was a vig kill makes more sense as town than scum. It could be a purposeful trick, but it would be fairly subtle and rely on us eventually reading the flavor correctly and then coming back to notice his tell. It doesn't confirm him as town, but I do find it fairly compelling. If I'm wrong, hats off to you Zito, you're a devious son of a bitch.

So, I suppose I'll have to move my vote.

I'm really disliking Bill's play right now, but I can't say I have anything more than a null read on him. There just haven't been enough posts from him.

unvote

VOTE: Barry

I find it suspicious that he takes so much time to cast his vote each day, yet reliably ends up on the biggest wagons after waiting for others to cast their votes. 5th vote on EA, 4th vote on me, 5th vote on GreyICE, and now 5th vote on Bill. The only exception I'm seeing is when he sat on Bill for awhile after my wagon dissolved. Yeah, he's given reasons for each vote, but it's easy to manufacture reasons, especially on a wagon that's already started.

I'm also still confused by his counter-wagon defense from ISO 34. His choice to label the votes against him as a counter-wagon clearly implies that he thinks that his wagon was a scum driven attempt to distract attention from a wagon on one of their partners. The fact that he asked for credit for his 'scum-hunting' proves that he was consciously accusing his attackers of being scum:

This and Rob’s later post are awfully convenient. If we are looking for a counterwagon, I believe we’ve found it. If you wish to follow it, remember who took you there.

When asked to stand behind these accusations, he refused, claiming that any such accusations would be OMGUS. In my book, it's not OMGUS if you think you've caught some scum. Also, his refusal to make accusations out of fear of committing an OMGUS scum-tell is pretty suspicious. A townie would happily build a case against someone who is voting against him if he sincerely thought he had hooked a scum.

TL;DR
1. Pandering for town credit.
2. OMGUS defense with a refusal to follow up, which shows he probably lied about thinking his case was a counter-wagon
3. Refused to build cases because he didn't want to commit a scum-tell.
4. Consistently on the tail end of BW's.

[Hiraki]

Vote: Erratus

His vote on Bill is crappola.

[Barry Allen]

I find it suspicious that he takes so much time to cast his vote each day, yet reliably ends up on the biggest wagons after waiting for others to cast their votes. 5th vote on EA, 4th vote on me, 5th vote on GreyICE, and now 5th vote on Bill. The only exception I'm seeing is when he sat on Bill for awhile after my wagon dissolved. Yeah, he's given reasons for each vote, but it's easy to manufacture reasons, especially on a wagon that's already started.

You are being a little contradictory here...you note my vote D1 on Bill as being late to the BW, then note I stayed on Bill when the wagon on you dissolved, then try to place me as late to the party today when I'm

still on Bill

. As for why I wasn't earlier with my vote...maybe it had to do the

fact that I was V/LA

.

This and Rob’s later post are awfully convenient. If we are looking for a counterwagon, I believe we’ve found it. If you wish to follow it, remember who took you there.

When asked to stand behind these accusations, he refused, claiming that any such accusations would be OMGUS. In my book, it's not OMGUS if you think you've caught some scum. Also, his refusal to make accusations out of fear of committing an OMGUS scum-tell is pretty suspicious. A townie would happily build a case against someone who is voting against him if he sincerely thought he had hooked a scum.

Let's get this straight. You did not ask me to "stand behind my accusation" - your REAL challenge to me was why I didn't change my vote to one of the folks who started the BW on me. I didn't and don't think OMGUS votes help the town...it just turns into "No YOU are scum" and "No YOU are scummier". If you have a problem with that, fair enough - but I am not going to OMGUS just for you and your outdated guide list for scumhunting.

TL;DR
1. Pandering for town credit.
2. OMGUS defense with a refusal to follow up, which shows he probably lied about thinking his case was a counter-wagon
3. Refused to build cases because he didn't want to commit a scum-tell.
4. Consistently on the tail end of BW's.

1. Not true - I've seen penpen try it, and others try it, but you have not given a single example of me "pandering". You may not like my votes, but this is simply not true.
2. I did not OMGUS defense, instead I defended NOT using an OMGUS vote - please keep that straight.
3. This is out and out false - I have stated my case on each and every person for whom I have voted, usually in the same post as my vote.
4. This is a modified JEEP's guide argument again, and it is as outdated now as it was before. If I were hammering for no reason (like our VI/Scum penpen) or if I threw in votes for no stated reason, I would get your point...but again I have stated my reasons for every vote and don't agree with your analysis. But, simply stating what number vote I was doesn't make me town or scum. Again, I've not sheeped and I have stated my reasons prior to voting each time I have voted this round.

As for my vote on Bill, it stays. It is not simply his absence - an inactive hunt is rarely helpful. It is the timing of his unresponsiveness - fading away when the heat goes up, showing back up only when called out for absence - that adds to what we have already discussed about him D1 (and of course, this on again/off again behavior also occurred D1).

[Barry Allen]

Well alright how about bvoigt, he seems to be doing the whole active lurking thing too. And I think his case on me and Barry are complete bullshit.

Hold on there, penpen - don't try to buddy up to me here. I still think you are either VI or scum.

btw Sub - THIS is pandering on penpen's part...trying to bring me into his argument like I'm going to back him up now...