Mafia 124 - Dilemma Mafia (Day 6)

[Jahudo]

I ISO'd Bub and one thing that really stuck out that I hadn't noticed before was how he has had no solid suspicions since d1 and has wagon hopped freely.

On day 2 Bub voted for Llama once, and switched to Fate once. How is this considered "wagon hopping freely"? Did something about his llama vote on day 2 look bad to you? You say he had solid suspicions on day 1 so it that referring to the day 1 llama vote? Should he have handled the continuation of that wagon differently in your opinion? Should he have made more scum reads by day 2? I am having trouble figuring out why exactly you voted him.

[Aikage]

David, SWITCHED piles. He went from "YOU IZ SCUM FATE WHO WANTED BB LYNCHED THEN DBE!!!" off some random ass comment I made, but today

not only did he change his read on me due to POSTING style, he even called Yosarian scum on a possible roleblocker gambit.

That's part of the reason he's probably scum. I deliberately held back my claim for a while, in the hopes that it would make scum nervous, and in response you and him both started inventing BS reasons to suspect me, him especally. Neither one of you seemed to be trying to lynch me; it looked more like you both just wanted to plant some doubt about me in advance of my claim. It's especially suspect since neither one of you had any doubt about my claim yesterday. Now, I'm not confirmed town; I never claimed to be, and I don't expect anyone to treat me as such, but the timing of his "sudden realization" that "omg yos could be scum" is pretty hard to swallow.

One of the things that's made me doubt my read on you is his scummy "either Yos or Fate is scum" comment.

That really looks like scum trying to set up a false dilemma between two townies, and he never really explained it to my satisfaction.

It just dosn't make any sense; my information on you was correct, and proven so. So either you're lying town or you're lying scum. That's entirely based on whatever meta people have on you, and whatever is going on inside your head; once my results were confirmed by you, the fact that it was me who called you out became completely unrelated to your alignment.

He's really seemed to just drift with the wind. He was willing to follow me on a lynch on you, or you on a lynch of DBE, or whatever. All in all, he just feels really scummy to me.

FUCKING WHAT THE FUCK BOLDING?

How does this world view make sense AT ALL?

"Fatescumfatescumfatescum FATE IS SCUM NO ONE ELSE WILL GET HIM LYNCHED!!!"

*no one votes Fate*

...
>_>
<_<

"DP IS SCUM SETTING UP FALSE DILLEMAS BETWEEN TWO TOWNIES!"

Stretch anymore and you'll pull something, FFS.

[Yosarian2]

You do realize that I was starting to have some doubts about my read on you towards the end of the day yesterday, based on Jahudo's defense of you, and have more of them now, right? What part of "there's a 60% chance Fate is scum" did you not get?

Seriously, when did you stop reading my posts?

[Empking]

Vote Count 44

2. DarlaBlueEyes (4) - Aikage, Jahudo, werewolf555, Brokenscraps,
3. werewolf555
5. Jahudo
7. Fishythefish
8. Brokenscraps (2) - DavidParker, Fishythefish
9. DavidParker (1) - Yosarian2
10. Aikage
11. Yosarian2
13. llarmable

Not Voting: DarlaBlueEyes, llarmable

9 players left. 5 to lynch.

[werewolf555]

@Yos,
I know you want to lynch DP, but let's get scum DBE first

[werewolf555]

No ones claiming or hammering till Nikanor posts, I just remembered we were hydraing tohether oops. Ill repost this on the hydra.

Besides fishy, you act like my reads are less trustworthy cuz I lied. How's that mae sense? Lie or not I'm still town

are you in this game?

[Aikage]

He's kidding right?

[Aikage]

You do realize that I was starting to have some doubts about my read on you towards the end of the day yesterday, based on Jahudo's defense of you, and have more of them now, right? What part of "there's a 60% chance Fate is scum" did you not get?

Seriously, when did you stop reading my posts?

I stopped reading your posts when you became prob-scum and I had no interest in any of your manipulation.

I still read your posts, yeah I GOT the part of how flexible and wishy washy your reads have been lately, thats WHY YOU'RE SCUM DAMN IT.

Unvote:

This day isn't ending anytime soon.

[Yosarian2]

So...I'm scum because I'm not tunneling on you? Or I'm scum because I don't 100% know everyone else's alignment?

Seriously, dude, what the fuck?

[DavidParker]

As soon as we see a scum flip (ideally broken) i actually have a huge hunch indicating that Yos might be scum as well.

[Jahudo]

Llama, why aren't you voting Darla?

[DavidParker]

Llama, why aren't you voting Darla?

Because of at the time of his last post, a vote on Darla would have been a hammer? What do you think; you clown....

[Jahudo]

Oh right, 5 votes to lynch.

[DarlaBlueEyes]

@Jah

I think you're either misunderstanding that quote, or miscommunicating your question. First of all, please examine Bud's first 4 posts of the game

But...but... I still wanna confirm! /confirm

Now then,

6. Bob Bidderskin

Obviously Bub Bidderskin's evil twin brother has disguised himself as Bub. Don't worry real Bub, we'll save you.

Vote: Bub Bidderskin

If you coming to save me, then why are you voting for me to kill me? This apparant contradiction can only be the spawn of scum.

Vote: Jahudo

This game's gonna be easy if the Mafia are stupid enough to have leaked their presence to the press!

---

vote: Final Fires

I get the feeling that he voted Yos and the he looked back on his vote and thought that it looked scummy, so he had to invent a BS reason to unvote.

But regardless of whether or not Final Fires is town, he did generate some interesting reactions...

um, it's RVS, SO SHUT UP

Allow me to paraphrase: "No! We spent so much time laying down our scum-plans and now you have to go and ruin everything during the RVS!!!"
Pom, why did you say that? You didn't give an opinion on Final Fires, you didn't tell how saying the things he did say was making him more scummy, not less, and you didn't ask him a question either, to try and get more info. It was totally pointless for game purposes, so why post?

Though I am getting scummy vibes off that entire post, I want a little more evidence before I throw in a vote and make a bandwagon. Though he's at the top of my list already.

Why hold back your vote? Only two people had voted for him and seven would be required for a lynch. Like pom's post, this comment is kind of pointless. "I think he's scummy, but I'll let everybody else do all the work. ho hum."

I'm not getting a scummy vibe off Final Fires right now. Trying to take the lead and be proactive comes across as a natural townie response, even if his suggestion of grouping people together and lynching based on that is really flimsy reasoning for lynching.

He said this after giving some pointers to Final Fires. Jahudo, if you think that Final Fires is not scum, then what do you think of Pom and Darla?

---

Vote: Jahudo.

Don't worry Fires. I believe you.

Do you have a reason for voting Jahudo?

Wouldn't a long, drawn out post accusing others of being scum look much more scummy than simply voting for yos? My motives weren't to look 'less scummy', but instead point out an observation I made, for what I thought was a better vote.

At this stage, a vote on Yos to get a bandwagon going isn't scummy at all, but a long drawn out post (like yours) is pointless this early becacuse there is so little info to go on.

Honestly, I simply meant to tell you to stop being so serious, and although it may have seemed hostile, it wasn't meant to be. I have a null-overeager-newb read on you ATM.

If you view Final Fires as town, then does that make the people who vote for him scummier, even if just by a little bit?

@ Bub Bidderskins
Why did you point out what DarlaBlueEyes had done, but give no attention to MoreWhisky who had done basically the same thing?

I should have asked him as well, but I missed him. Sorry, my bad.

Ender, wtf? Vote, unvote, vote. You shouldn't be scared to run somebody up if you think they're scum, but I get what you were saying with your unvote. I do not like your re-vote, however. That "happy now?" sounded like you just re-voted because somebody asked you to.

FOS: ender

---

Even though ender looks scummy, Darla looks like scum.

unvote; vote DarlaBlueEyes

That's two back-to-back mini-wagons that she said "oh, he looks scummy, but I'm going to reserve my vote" that kind of hesitancy with her vote indicates scum to me. A townie wouldn't be afraid to vote for somebody he or she thinks is scum. Essentially, she said she approved of the wagons, but didn't get on them.

that's the first four posts he made. In order. Hopping on with each wagon as it bloomed, and giving nothing else. Then on d2 he coasted between the two biggest wagons, and gave almost no input at all. Granted I was absent and not very helpful when I myself was here, he didn't have the excuse of a family emergency for his lurking and low-content giving. That combined with me still being unsure about Fate over all, (my opinion keeps changing, and I hate uncertainty) I felt Bub by his play was a much better lynch.

[Llamarble]

Yay, it's catch up night.
If Darla is scum with DP then both DP and his predecessor bussed her. I don't think Flinter would have bussed DBE. DBEscumbuddies would likely be one or both of Yos/Broken, with Jahudo a decent possibility for a "vote scumbuddy but don't try very hard to get her lynched" approach. DBE's initial wagon appears to have been almost entirely town. While she can usually explain herself she hasn't really gotten into melee. During her ISO flurry, she covers players who are now confirmed townies & Rekirts/DP (likely not her buddy). There's a lot of aspersion-casting from her and not much pushing, which makes sense considering two townies (me and bub) yowling for each others' lynches gives scum a substantial incentive to simply stay out of the way. Her D2 votes for me and for Bub both seem opportunistic & justified rather than read-driven. Yes, Bub was wagoning, and I was in strong agreement with Fate. But giving only those reasons feels like she went through to find a good excuse and then put it down and voted. Saying "why aren't we lynching llama" at the beginning of today is scumplaining.

I have no idea how to catch serial killers beyond the fact that they really really don't want to be seen defending scum, so they don't put themselves on the line for anyone, ruling out Fate & Fishy. DBESK could have flaked or doubleshot FF N1 and Bobsnox N2 for the "I wanna vig Darla," but then who are the scumteam?

By the way, Yos isn't a confirmed PR; there remains the unlikely but certainly not unbelievable Yos/Fate bushappy scumteam possibility.

I guess I should consider the "Suppose DBE were town, then what" possibility before running ahead with a lynch though.

[Yosarian2]

Well, if the choices today are Darla and Broken, I think I'd rather lynch Broken.

unvote

Vote:Broken

Anyway, to make sure I get a claim off before someone ends the day, let me say this: I investigated Llama last night, and he didn't go anywhere. I did this partly because I think he's scummy, partly because there's no way any scum group would send Fate out last night after everything I said about him, and partly because he's a claimed vanilla, so I knew that if I saw him do anything at all, I'd catch him in a lie.

This defiantly rules out Llama being a SK, and it also probably rules him out as being any kind of scum power role. He could still be a goon who didn't get sent on the kill, of course.

[brokenscraps]

So. Moderate scumread on Darla. No other scumreads to speak of, but I've got a bad feeling about DP I must investigate.

Jahudo made a good point on broken yesterday – he epically avoids committing to anything, keeping a lot of low level scumreads simmering. See Jahudo’s 954. My gut is screaming that broken is scum.

Why does your gut go from having nothing to speak of to screaming because of a post you read yesterday? Inconsistent, inconsistent.

Torn between a vote for DBE and a
VOTE: brokenscraps

This post also continues the "darla is scum" cries while conveniently setting up a darla counter-wagon in me. Also "name partner as suspect, vote someone else".

As soon as we see a scum flip (ideally broken) i actually have a huge hunch indicating that Yos might be scum as well.

Mind sharing some of these apparent association tells so I can't point out their bullshit? (I'm taking the rubbish bit to be me and Yos are scum together, Yos could still be scum but I have nothing to do with it)

I have no idea how to catch serial killers beyond the fact that they really really don't want to be seen defending scum, so they don't put themselves on the line for anyone, ruling out Fate & Fishy. DBESK could have flaked or doubleshot FF N1 and Bobsnox N2 for the "I wanna vig Darla," but then who are the scumteam?

In terms of not wanting to be seen defending scum that could fit with Darla not wanting to commit to scum/town tells at the start of day 1 (in regards to FF and ender), although could also be mafia feeling out the defending/attacking of a newb-townie. Either way doesn't seem too town.

[Empking]

Deadline in 1 Week (Its been shortened due to the lack of activity)

[Fishythefish]

So. Moderate scumread on Darla. No other scumreads to speak of, but I've got a bad feeling about DP I must investigate.

Jahudo made a good point on broken yesterday – he epically avoids committing to anything, keeping a lot of low level scumreads simmering. See Jahudo’s 954. My gut is screaming that broken is scum.

Why does your gut go from having nothing to speak of to screaming because of a post you read yesterday? Inconsistent, inconsistent.

I reread, focusing on you.

Torn between a vote for DBE and a
VOTE: brokenscraps

This post also continues the "darla is scum" cries while conveniently setting up a darla counter-wagon in me. Also "name partner as suspect, vote someone else".

Really, this is just assigning an arbitrary motivation to my actions. What makes you not believe that I just find you both scummy?

[DavidParker]

Broken is really making a huge stretch on his semi-case on Fishy. Seems very desperate at this point.

Anyone else notice how CONVENIENT IT WAS that Yos tracked a claimed VT?!??! He won't be producing info that he can get caught out in a lie using because he tracked a claimed VT. I'm really liking a Yos lynch at this point.

[Yosarian2]

Broken is really making a huge stretch on his semi-case on Fishy. Seems very desperate at this point.

Anyone else notice how CONVENIENT IT WAS that Yos tracked a claimed VT?!??! He won't be producing info that he can get caught out in a lie using because he tracked a claimed VT. I'm really liking a Yos lynch at this point.

I had good reasons for tracking a claimed VT, obviously. Tracking a claimed VT is the right move for a tracker to do, if you think he might be scum; your odds of catching scum that way are muh higher

Also, you realize you're totally contradicting yourself here, right? Last post, you were pretending you thought I was a scum tracker or a scum roleblocker who could thus accuratly fake tracker results by just saying I tracked whoever I rolebloked . Now you seem to be claiming that I don't have any results. You don't even care about making sense at this point, so long as you can invent BS reasons to suspect me, do you?

Can someone (some who's not Fate, obv) please explain to me why we're not lynching David today?

[Empking]

werewolf and Aikage have been prodded

[DavidParker]

Oh, my current opinion is you are a scum roleblocker. You chose to say you tracked a claimed VT because if you say you tracked someone else, ie: someone who might be a PR, they can turn around and say, "hey i should have gotten results last night but i didn't, i must have been roleblocked.. oh and hey, here's this scummy guy who targetted me".

[Jahudo]

What makes Yos scum though?

My order of preference is still 1. Darla 2. broken 3. David, and I'm ready to hear a Darla claim too.

[Aikage]

Besides all the reasons he was scuum before?

Tracking a claimed VT is the "right" thing to do? HORSESHIT.

What kind of VT claim by scum performs the NK AFTER THE TRACKERS BEEN OUTED ALREADY?


Like I said before, Yos is scum because there's no way his town play is this shit.

Nikanor stil hasn't fucking caught up yet.