Open 272 - Near-Vanilla (Over!)

[Egg]

Unvote, Vote Andrew

So it's Andrew/Archer. K.

[lord_hur]

It' has nothing to do with the PM, it's what most VT's know once they get their role PM.

It's you who brought that up here :

Also and point of order to Consp who quoted my post. He missed my soft claim (which I did on purpose) which tells me since he received his PM just recently. He doesn't recognize a town PM.

You vote him for not recognizing the town PM, and now you say I'm stupid for saying yours doesn't even look like it? How can you attack someone for not comparing your soft claim with the town PM, when it doesn't look at all like said PM?

I'm not dead set on lynching you, I just want to make sense of your accusations and your defense. I was serious when I said I see things in your favor, but I also can still see things incriminating you that remain unexplained (like why you looked up Egg's identity when you had no town reason to), and I don't understand your points. So yes, call me stupid all you want, I don't care. But please make me understand.

Also, for some reason, seeing you giving up on avoiding to be lynched makes me sad. Good players don't give up, whichever side they're on, and you're a good player.

[Egg]

FTR, I don't think Farsidescum gets any more advantage knowing who I am than Farsidetown. The only reason to really know is to make sure people aren't joining games under multiple accounts, but I think the honor system basically covers that in non-newb games.

[farside22]

because if egg is aiming his jailkeep to protect, that post which someone said that the particular person has a 50% less chance of being mafia is false.

The motive for jailing is indifferent concerning its mechanism. There's no "jail to protect mode" vs "jail to prevent a kill mode", there's just jail. If there was 1 scum left, if someone is jailed and someone else is NKed, the jailed person is guaranteed town. Ok so far? Now, if there are 2 scums left, the kill can be done by either, so if the JK targets one of the scums, there is a 50% chance of having no NK. So, if there IS a NK, the JK probably didn't target scum : in other words, the jailed person is 50% less likely to be scum than the others.

I have to reread Egg but I'm sure after the JK was outed any mafia scum player worth their salt would have looked to see if Egg suspected them and if so had the other mafia team player to the kill. There is no way I believe the 50% chance.
Seriously haven't you ever been scum?

You vote him for not recognizing the town PM, and now you say I'm stupid for saying yours doesn't even look like it? How can you attack someone for not comparing your soft claim with the town PM, when it doesn't look at all like said PM?

I never called you stupid. Sorry if that is how you interrupted my post. I was saying your jumping to conclusions when my post is about what town knows. A player that just got a role PM knows what's about. I'm not saying people who are VT's but if Consp got a VT role PM he knows what he is good for in this game.
(puts egg debate on hold for now)
If I gave up completely I wouldn't have set a trap for someone I believe to be scum. Besides that I have a theory and if correct I'm smacking the mod later.

[farside22]

FTR, I don't think Farsidescum gets any more advantage knowing who I am than Farsidetown. The only reason to really know is to make sure people aren't joining games under multiple accounts, but I think the honor system basically covers that in non-newb games.

I'm just going to say I've had to check and it happens where some people do sign up that are not non-newbie games. Remember open games I get new players I never heard of join and check them to make sure it's not someone who shouldn't be on MS either.

[farside22]

Sorry for the triple post: Archer I put you on ignore because your repeating yourself and still making the same excuses for how you can post a case in one game but not in another. I don't believe you and all your comments is I changed my way and meta is stupid (in a nutshell).
If there is something important that is not about the above ^ that you feel I need to answer please repeat the question, because frankly the whole I changed that's why I'm not able to made a case is complete and utter bull shit.

[lord_hur]

[quote="farside22"]I have to reread Egg but I'm sure after the JK was outed any mafia scum player worth their salt would have looked to see if Egg suspected them and if so had the other mafia team player to the kill. There is no way I believe the 50% chance.
Seriously haven't you ever been scum? [quote]
This is WIFOM in its purest form and I'd hope Egg is smart enough to spot it and act accordingly, so I think my statistics hold. I have been scum 3 times, IIRC.

[ConSpiracy]

You remember the game you gave me as scum? You bussed a bit on others which is the same thing as you are doing with Archer. Is it strange Archer doesn't come off as town to me when I think you are scum?

So how is it that you think I as scum would be bussing Archer, but not AntB. Whyif I was scum and I do buss would I not vote for Batt's at the end of the day instead of AntB?

Meh, I looked it up. You were more serious on Archer than I could remember you were. I thought you were just a bit bussing on him here and there, but you had your vote on him and continued to question him when having your vote on him. Okay, a Batt-farside-Archer combination becomes very unlikely now, too.

And for the people who are nagging about the statistics:

Statistics

We have a JK. The jailkeeper can roleblock a mafia player and stop their kill from going through. In total we will have 10 players at night. (We won't be no lynching) We will have two cases: 9 townies 1 scum. 8 townies, 2 scum.
- With 9 townies 1 scum it is easy. The scum can't decide who will send it in, so the jailkeeper will undoubtedly roleblock scum (if he jails scum off course) We can say without a doubt that the one the JK targeted will be town if the kill still went through.
- With 8 townies 2 scum it is more difficult. 20% is scum, 80% is town. The chance scum is targeted is 20%, but the chance that the targeted scum also sent in the kill is 50% which gives us a total of 10% chance the jailkeeper targets the killsending scum. However, he can also target the other scum, which means the JK can still target scum without blocking the kill. That scum is in the remaining 10% of the scum not sending in the kill. So if a kill goes through the one being jailed can be 8/9 town (88%) and 1/9 (11%) be scum.

This applies when everything is totally random, what off course isn't in this game. These are the chances you were talking about so no discussion about this anymore, please.

[farside22]

I have to reread Egg but I'm sure after the JK was outed any mafia scum player worth their salt would have looked to see if Egg suspected them and if so had the other mafia team player to the kill. There is no way I believe the 50% chance.
Seriously haven't you ever been scum?

This is WIFOM in its purest form and I'd hope Egg is smart enough to spot it and act accordingly, so I think my statistics hold. I have been scum 3 times, IIRC.

How is this WIFOM? Are you saying as scum when a PR has been outed you never looked to see who they accused to work out night kills among each other?

Oh hell no way is Consp backing off that easy. I know you slipped and I'm not about to give you room to wiggle. You said AntB was town based on me scum, but said nothing about Archer who had the same thing going on with him. Then you come up with a lame ass attempt to say I'm bussing Archer after pointing out my lack of vote on Batt's day 1.
No way Jose.

@Archer: I recall without looking (No,I'm not going back and reading right now) that you also are bitching repeatedly about asking you a question about Nacho and your town read. When someone gets pissy about others who use gut to explain things and then decides to use it based on nothing inbetween, I'm going to call that pretty darn scummy.

[lord_hur]

How is this WIFOM? Are you saying as scum when a PR has been outed you never looked to see who they accused to work out night kills among each other?

Yes, but the PR knows he's been outed, so he can alter his behavior based on this knowledge. And then scum can target the PR's target because he thinks the PR thinks he will change targets. Etc. This is WIFOM.
When I'm in this situation, I randomize my target in a selection of players, so my action cannot be predicted as much.

[farside22]

How is this WIFOM? Are you saying as scum when a PR has been outed you never looked to see who they accused to work out night kills among each other?

Yes, but the PR knows he's been outed, so he can alter his behavior based on this knowledge. And then scum can target the PR's target because he thinks the PR thinks he will change targets. Etc. This is WIFOM.
When I'm in this situation, I randomize my target in a selection of players, so my action cannot be predicted as much.

How is it 50% chance that the person that Egg JK is town then?

[ConSpiracy]

FTR, I don't think Farsidescum gets any more advantage knowing who I am than Farsidetown. The only reason to really know is to make sure people aren't joining games under multiple accounts, but I think the honor system basically covers that in non-newb games.

That´s not what I meant about it.
- He used you being a noob as a reason to ask your night target.
- He knows you are an alt, not a noob.
- He made up his argument about you being a noob. <- scumslip

All VT's have is a vote. That's the point. It' has nothing to do with the PM, it's what most VT's know once they get their role PM.
I have a vote. If I was scum I would be soft claiming doc and outing the doctor.
Seriously LH catch up, we miss you.

This is not true. I can prove you aren't a doc and you know it. You made it unable for yourself to fake-claim doc.

Oh hell no way is Consp backing off that easy. I know you slipped and I'm not about to give you room to wiggle. You said AntB was town based on me scum, but said nothing about Archer who had the same thing going on with him. Then you come up with a lame ass attempt to say I'm bussing Archer after pointing out my lack of vote on Batt's day 1.
No way Jose.

Yeah, well no. You are pretending that you were attacking AntB as much as Archer which is definitely not true. I only thought you mentioned Archer in just a vote and just a few posts, just as you did with Battousai and with SP and bv310 and DGB in the scumlink you gave us. My bad that you had a go on him for like 10 posts in a row.
On top of that, you know that you can't make anything out of this.
Let's say you are town:
- I mention Archer as a must be town when farside is scum <- invalid
Let's say you are scum:
- I mention Archer as a must be town when farside is scum <- true. But I can't be his scumbuddy anymore since there is one scum left.

I like your trying to get me lynched, but you are only digging a deeper hole for yourself, scum.

[inHimshallibe]

Deadline will be extended 48 hours. Wednesday the 9th at 11:59 PM GMT-6. No later.

[inHimshallibe]

Official Day 2 Vote Tally

11 players remain; 6 votes needed for a lynch.

farside22 (4)

- AntB, ConSpiracy, lord_hur, Archer

ConSpiracy (3)

- brokenscraps, Magua, farside22

AntB (2)

- Bella, andrew94

lord_hur (1)

- Looker

andrew94 (1)

- Egg

Yet to vote (0):

[AntB]

So basically I'm scum in several peoples eyes but I'm town if they're scum...

Are these reads 2 way at all? IE if I flip town, person X is obviscum?

[ConSpiracy]

Are these reads 2 way at all? IE if I flip town, person X is obviscum?

*pretending as if farside isn't already obvious scum*
If AntB flips town, farside will not become obvious scum.

[farside22]

Are these reads 2 way at all? IE if I flip town, person X is obviscum?

*pretending as if farside isn't already obvious scum*
If AntB flips town, farside will not become obvious scum.

As I said and proof above I was correct. Once I flip town you were going to attack AntB.

This is not true. I can prove you aren't a doc and you know it. You made it unable for yourself to fake-claim doc.

Seriously can I please be a double voter in this game mod!!
So as scum you see that I would stop a someone I think is scum from fake claiming. Your seriously saying as scum I wouldn't wait to have AntB claim his VT role instead when I pointed out something before hand?

Yeah, well no. You are pretending that you were attacking AntB as much as Archer which is definitely not true. I only thought you mentioned Archer in just a vote and just a few posts, just as you did with Battousai and with SP and bv310 and DGB in the scumlink you gave us. My bad that you had a go on him for like 10 posts in a row.
On top of that, you know that you can't make anything out of this.

If you actually read the game instead of just the iso, you would have noted that I voted for my scum buddies when they were under pressure in that game, but when the town decided to switch votes to someone else I was more then happy to help them lynch that person. IE: I'm not going to keep a vote on my scum buddy as scum if the town wants to lynch someone else. But as you only looked at the iso you missed that part.
Also I have attacked both AntB and Archer today.

I already figure I will be lynched. But I'm making damn sure tomorrow when your around and my flip happens as town your are put in a corner you can't get out of.

[Archer]

Sorry for the triple post: Archer I put you on ignore because your repeating yourself and still making the same excuses for how you can post a case in one game but not in another. I don't believe you and all your comments is I changed my way and meta is stupid (in a nutshell).
If there is something important that is not about the above ^ that you feel I need to answer please repeat the question, because frankly the whole I changed that's why I'm not able to made a case is complete and utter bull shit.

I'm sorry for repeatedly answering your repeated accusations/questions. Really, this is hilarious, you calling me out for repeating myself when I only did it because you were repeating yourself. Would you prefer I put you on ignore too? Oh look, you repeat yourself again! But dont worry, I wont answer for the 6th time, wouldnt want you to ignore me again.

@Archer: I recall without looking (No,I'm not going back and reading right now) that you also are bitching repeatedly about asking you a question about Nacho and your town read. When someone gets pissy about others who use gut to explain things and then decides to use it based on nothing inbetween, I'm going to call that pretty darn scummy.

And here are my questions to you that you ignored.

Finally, how did you go from labelling me as scum to "almost certain?" Heck, in post 721 you even have me higher on the list than AntB, so why are you voting for AntB and not me?

Again, Farside, why were you voting AntB post 727 (who is lower on your suspect list) instead of me (second on your list)? And then what changed between that vote and your vote for me in which AntB is now town? Too much hopping, too little reasoning (that I can see anyway).

One new question, pretend that I'm town (since you obv think I'm not) and that I get lynched today. What suspects would you then have?

[ConSpiracy]

As I said and proof above I was correct. Once I flip town you were going to attack AntB.

Nice twisting of words. If AntBtown doesn't imply farsidescum, then farsidetown doesn't automaticly imply AntBscum. And again a lame attempt to let me come across as scummy.

This is not true. I can prove you aren't a doc and you know it. You made it unable for yourself to fake-claim doc.

Seriously can I please be a double voter in this game mod!!
So as scum you see that I would stop a someone I think is scum from fake claiming. Your seriously saying as scum I wouldn't wait to have AntB claim his VT role instead when I pointed out something before hand?

Since you can't see it yourself, I will show you:

Why farside can't be the doc

She said this to AntB

I want to remind people in case AntBscum tries to fake claim what he said earlier in the game.

I will happily die (and even self hammer) if my flip will provide sufficient information, and even as scum if I feel it will throw the trail off my scumbuddies. However, my death now will provide nothing but a lot of "meh!"

This was so the doc didn't have to counterclaim because she has proof AntB is a VT. If farside was the doc herself, she didn't have to post this. She could have come up with this piece of evidence before the doc (she) counterclaimed herself.

If you actually read the game instead of just the iso, you would have noted that I voted for my scum buddies when they were under pressure in that game, but when the town decided to switch votes to someone else I was more then happy to help them lynch that person. IE: I'm not going to keep a vote on my scum buddy as scum if the town wants to lynch someone else. But as you only looked at the iso you missed that part.
Also I have attacked both AntB and Archer today.

You think I am that stupid to only read your ISO? I won't read all of the 30 pages you were around, because that takes too much time, but I at least make sure I read the important posts in context + at least the votecounts when you voted.
bv310 was not having any vote or pressure on him
SocioPath was not having any vote on him (some even called him town)
What you said only applied to DGB -> Great. I am accused of something wrong again.

I already figure I will be lynched. But I'm making damn sure tomorrow when your around and my flip happens as town your are put in a corner you can't get out of.

That is fine with me, you will flip scum anyway.

[farside22]

Finally, how did you go from labelling me as scum to "almost certain?" Heck, in post 721 you even have me higher on the list than AntB, so why are you voting for AntB and not me?

Your obviously not reading the game. At this point I have you and conspircy as a scum team.

Since you can't see it yourself, I will show you:

Why farside can't be the doc
She said this to AntB

So as scum you see that I would stop a someone I think is scum from fake claiming. Your seriously saying as scum I wouldn't wait to have AntB claim his VT role instead when I pointed out something before hand?

IE: I already pointed out what you were going to quote but nice dodge of my question though.

That is fine with me, you will flip scum anyway.

It's the bitch in me that enjoys seeing people get their comeuppance.

[Magua]

Jailkeeping and statistics: This is a whole bunch of busy-talk to make it look like people are saying things when they're not. The only real fact is, if we lynch scum today, jailkeep to roleblock. Outside of that, knowing if Egg is trying to jailkeep to protect or jailkeep to roleblock, and who he might target in either situation, only helps the scum and doesn't help us *at all*.

I bristle at people trying to get information out of Egg about this. I *really* bristle when it's two of my townreads. This info isn't going anywhere, because Egg isn't dying tonight. Let's move on.

I don't like this whole back-and-forth between Conspiracy and farside. It goes off into the weeds so easily on things that are so...bizarre...like Farside saying, "If I were scum, I'd be softclaiming doc", and Conspiracy replying with evidence from D2 that Farside wasn't softclaiming doc. Which just makes me go WTF? It reads to me like Conspiracy is simply going through Farside's post, and grabbing everything that could be taken as even remotely scummy, and throwing it into the mix. "Farside is scummy for calling Nacho obvscum D1, but then pressuring other players." Seriously? The aforementioned "There's no way Farside could be softclaming doc." The picture it puts into my mind is someone who has a predetermined goal in mind -- "Farside is scum" -- and is then simply looking for things that confirm this.

It's four and a half days until deadline. We're not lynching AntB. Bella and andrew need to get their votes onto someone who could be scum. We're not lynching Lord Hur. looker need to get his vote onto someone who could be scum.

[andrew94]

egg would you suggest why you are voting me?

[Looker]

• UNVOTE: VOTE: Egg

[andrew94]

• UNVOTE: VOTE: Egg

lo

[farside22]

• UNVOTE: VOTE: Egg

unvote:
vote: looker

I would seriously do this if I didn't feel with every fiber that Consp was scum with archer right now. But seriously your 3rd scum suspect on my list.

unvote:
vote: Consp

@Consp if you truely believe I'm scum then who is my scum partner in your view and why?