Mafia 126 - Lovers Mafia! [Game Over]

Purple Orange · Post Post #1400 (ISO) » Mon Mar 07, 2011 2:01 pm

@ Kise - I know you're not changing your mind about us. That's been pretty obvious since forever. If either your pair or the llama pair is town, and we end up verging on lylo, Espy and myself will need to die for the town to have a shot at winning. But we're not there yet. And if we hit a wolf pair, and it's bloody obvious Espy and myself can't be the partners, we might NEVER have to go there. So if we've got a free shot or two at hitting a wolf pair, I'd prefer to use them.

I'm trying to figure out if we should use one on you.

========
You honestly still think we should fast-pace quicklynch people? (I also read an implied "with no regard for what they actually flip...we just need to get this list of people out of the way before we can move on," due to the "order doesn't matter" part).

I think your plan sucks. Um...here. For others more than you, or maybe for town-you tomorrow if I die today.

* I'm coming from the perspective of figuring Espy and myself are going to HAVE to be the third lynch if scum isn't hit in the first two. And thus knowing that we've got only two mislynches to spare, not three. That's going to make me a bit more sober and careful about how we proceed than someone who thinks "woo, yay! three free mislynches, and this pair is DEFINITELY scum!"

* Every connection and every vote will count if we go into lylo. Especially if we don't flip another scum before then. I don't know if we have enough connections yet. But I

do

know the lynch method you're proposing will ensure that the minimum the amount of new connections and associations will be able to be drawn from each lynch. And if it's based in any way on community consensus, it also ensures that the minimum amount of responsibility is attached to each vote. I don't think this is a good thing. At all.

=========

Not sure how many ways I can say this. So this is more for others than for you. I never wanted to lynch 14 players in a row with no consideration of anything inbetween. Or even 14 players. Those were the 7 pairs that, due to me finding it damn hard to get a scumreads on Day 2, I was OK seeing one lynched so we could get SOME flip and move on. Again, I wasn't sure how picky I could afford to be that day. The fact I made a beeline for silavor the next day, and that by Day 4 I only had two pairs I felt comfortable lynching, I hope would speak to the temporary and circumstance-bound nature of that list.

I also disagree about the stagnation in the game -- I think we were stalled then, and I think we were stuck. We haven't been since.

SensFan · Post Post #1401 (ISO) » Mon Mar 07, 2011 2:04 pm

Hiraki replaces Thingyman, effective as soon as he picks up his PM.
As of now, there are

NO

more slots in need of replacement.
PrayPiotr has about 24 hours to pick up his prod and post, or be replaced.

Tragedy · Post Post #1402 (ISO) » Mon Mar 07, 2011 2:09 pm

~~Off-Topic~~

ZOMG IS HIRAKI.

>:O

xRECKONERx · Post Post #1403 (ISO) » Mon Mar 07, 2011 2:20 pm

SensFan wrote:Hiraki replaces Thingyman, effective as soon as he picks up his PM.
As of now, there are
NO
more slots in need of replacement.
PrayPiotr has about 24 hours to pick up his prod and post, or be replaced.

LOL MOD
L O L

Hiraki · Post Post #1404 (ISO) » Mon Mar 07, 2011 2:23 pm

Y'know what. Let's make this easy. Does anyone know, before I look, if anyone has done VCs?

Tragedy · Post Post #1405 (ISO) » Mon Mar 07, 2011 2:26 pm

VC's? Vanilla Claims?
It's a Lover's Game.
Town Lovers, Mafia Lovers and Werewolf Lovers.
...But we killed all the Mafia Lovers..

xRECKONERx · Post Post #1406 (ISO) » Mon Mar 07, 2011 2:48 pm

Vote counts?

Hiraki · Post Post #1407 (ISO) » Mon Mar 07, 2011 2:59 pm

xRECKONERx wrote:Vote counts?

I'll assume that's a no.

GreyICE · Post Post #1408 (ISO) » Mon Mar 07, 2011 3:01 pm

We is all playin by tells. You and your logical process :p

Hiraki · Post Post #1409 (ISO) » Mon Mar 07, 2011 3:07 pm

I can play that game, with a twist of course. I'm going to read the thread mow. See you all in a good 24.

Kise · Post Post #1410 (ISO) » Mon Mar 07, 2011 3:34 pm

Purple Orange wrote:Espy and myself will need to die for the town to have a shot at winning.

Exactly, town needs to lynch the wolves.

Purple Orange wrote:You honestly still think we should fast-pace quicklynch people? (I also read an implied "with no regard for what they actually flip...we just need to get this list of people out of the way before we can move on," due to the "order doesn't matter" part).

It worked with vezok. We found him scummy and cot damn did it work. I don't care if I'm threatened to be lynched at some point. I helped lynched the mafia pairs, but they weren't original cases of mine, I admit. My original cases fall in line with your pair, Reck/Nero, and Emp. Right now I'd hold it at just your pair, possibly Emp, and least likely but possibly Ashblade for something I went over yesterday that I've noticed in his posting.

Purple Orange wrote:I think your plan sucks. Um...here. For others more than you, or maybe for town-you tomorrow if I die today.

Wah!?!? Rephrase, please.

Purple Orange wrote:* I'm coming from the perspective of figuring Espy and myself are going to HAVE to be the third lynch if scum isn't hit in the first two.

No, the first lynch starting now. I've been trying to get this done since day 1, but this is how the game is played: You share your suspects, and help others lynch their suspects if you agree with the points or find the person in question to be scummy as well. Hopefully I get my turn today and Esp is lynched, FINALLY.

Purple Orange wrote:* Every connection and every vote will count if we go into lylo.

Your fear spreading antics do not work when I am under the protected of Athena's barrier.

Purple Orange wrote:Especially if we don't flip another scum before then. I don't know if we have enough connections yet.

I don't think anyone found a connection between vezok/Mist & KCD/BS, BUT HEY, we still got their asses strung up. I did drop the ball by saying KCD probably wasn't bussed, when in fact vezok voted him early on.

Purple Orange wrote:But I
do
know the lynch method you're proposing will ensure that the minimum the amount of new connections and associations will be able to be drawn from each lynch.

People can still be individually scummy is what I'm getting at.

Kise · Post Post #1411 (ISO) » Mon Mar 07, 2011 3:41 pm

Do I need to actually quote the simple shit in life that makes Esp scum, PO?

SensFan · Post Post #1412 (ISO) » Mon Mar 07, 2011 4:14 pm

Espeonage - 4 (Mariyta, Nero Cain, Kise, Dram)
Tragedy - 1 (Espeonage)

(xRECKONERx, EmpTyger, PrayPiotr, Hiraki, GreyICE, werewolf555, Ashblade, antihero, Purple Orange, Tragedy, Llamarble)

9 to lynch.

---

(1)You are entitled to request a prod on anyone that has gone 72 hours without posting.
(2)You are entitled to ask about the current status of any prods (ie: have they been picked up).
Otherwise, I will no longer be allowing any more talk about the potential replacement, or lack thereof, of any player slots. I did not wish to resort to this, but it has been made crystal-clear to me that you are not capable of keeping any objections you may have with my policies to a respectful and non-aggressive level. As of now, any talk of about replacements that does not fall strictly within the bounds of clauses (1) or (2) will be edited/deleted out on sight, and further action may be taken if required.

Espeonage · Post Post #1413 (ISO) » Mon Mar 07, 2011 4:30 pm

See this is why I hate multiquote walls. Apart from being unreadable people take the opportunity to take lines out of context without it actually being a fake quote.

EmpTyger · Post Post #1414 (ISO) » Mon Mar 07, 2011 4:32 pm

Wow. I'd forgotten what it's like to play with a partner.
Welcome, Hitaki. Going to wait until I've had a chance to confer before voting/pressing any case.

Mariyta:
Seriously, after 5 years you're still doing this? Remember Chrono Trigger? Remember Post-Restriction 3? You mind not giving up or making the town drag you kicking and screaming?

xRECKONERx · Post Post #1415 (ISO) » Mon Mar 07, 2011 4:38 pm

Oh look, the mod is threatening modkills for anyone who has a problem with his lack of modding. *sigh*

I'll be back tomorrow once I step away from this game for a bit.

Kise · Post Post #1416 (ISO) » Mon Mar 07, 2011 4:49 pm

You do realize that Purp did this to me at one time or another, Esp? That's why I'm tired of going into a quote-exchange with her because she's doing nothing other than wasting my time. She's not bringing up new points. If anything, she's aggravating me until I say something off-color to use against me.

Ashblade · Post Post #1417 (ISO) » Mon Mar 07, 2011 8:22 pm

No complaining? Alright. There is more than 1 way to skin a cat, every time wolfy goes over 3 days (I was hoping it was 2 and thought it was 2 before I checked the rules) we'll prod request (I know I will). I hope you all will join me in this task.

With that said... VOTE: Espeonage

His play and hunting has the luxury of being there without being there to me. Yeah he thinks Tragedy and Mariyta are scum, but that's about all I can really make out of it besides some words on Kise (I don't think he's shared why Kise is scum either). Personally I also think PO is stretching Kise's points to anti-sugar coat this wagon as much as possible (instead of making good reasons why she shouldn't be lynched, she's more suggesting why she shouldn't be lynched quickly.)

So, I'm happy to start pressing. Runner up wagon is Mariyta/Tragedy for their berserk buttons over small things and the like. Mariyta may do this often but there is something fishy feeling there.

Also...

dramonic wrote:Ashblade is basically a blessing to his loverteam, he feels incredibly protown too

You're too kind Mr. Owl.

xRECKONERx · Post Post #1418 (ISO) » Mon Mar 07, 2011 9:03 pm

Also, allow me to explain part of my bias, for full disclosure:

This is the last normal game that I'll be playing. I decided to retire, and I've signed up for one or two mini theme games, but after that, I'm done. And this is the last game dramonic signed up for with me, and I refuse to believe fate is such a cruel bitch that we ended up opposite alignments in our final game together.

This, plus my town read on him, makes me unwilling to lynch dramonic.

SensFan · Post Post #1419 (ISO) » Mon Mar 07, 2011 9:20 pm

Llamarble has gone 72 hours without posting, and so has been prodded.

Llamarble · Post Post #1420 (ISO) » Mon Mar 07, 2011 9:33 pm

VOTE: Espeonage
I've been suspicious of them for a long time & my lover has reached the same conclusion. Most other loverpairs are townreads. I think the Kise pair may be bussing them due to their unsalvageable situation, but need to look more carefully into previous days' behavior, which I am too tired to do right now.

Purple Orange · Post Post #1421 (ISO) » Tue Mar 08, 2011 12:34 am

@ Kise. Nothing's preventing you from ignoring me, especially as you say your mind is made up. (And while I'd love to ignore you, I can't, because I think you might be scum).

I think you're scummy because of your quicklynch proposal

. That's the long and short of this for me. The rest is details, and me trying to figure out if I'm onto something or completely off my rocker.

Spoiler: Kise stuff. Because textwalls shouldn't make more people's eyes bleed than necessary.

Kise wrote:Do I need to actually quote the simple shit in life that makes Esp scum, PO?

Um...that would be pretty pointless, wouldn't it? You say yourself that there's no way I could ever change your mind, and that'd be the only reason for you to talk to ME about the ways you think Espy is scummy. Though if you think it could make a whit of difference, be my guest. I can object to bad data like I did with Nero the other day, but interpretation is an iffier matter.

Kise wrote:Wah!?!? Rephrase, please.

"Here's why I think your quicklynch idea sucks and is anti-town. You probably aren't going to listen to me, so at this point I'm directing this section to others. Still, if you're town, I hope you'll reconsider what I say here if Espy and myself die today."

Kise wrote:I don't think anyone found a connection between vezok/Mist & KCD/BS, BUT HEY, we still got their asses strung up. I did drop the ball by saying KCD probably wasn't bussed, when in fact vezok voted him early on.

Err...

I

voted for him because I thought he was the best remaining possible partner for kcdaspice. And because they didn't vote for kcdaspice on Day 1. And because vezok bussed kcda shortly before Baby Spice did on Day 2. I'd call those connections, and I wasn't the only one citing them. I don't know how many people would have still voted for them without that. But the case wouldn't have been that strong, and I highly doubt he would have gotten lynched as quickly as he did. Also, see below.

Kise wrote:It worked with vezok. We found him scummy and cot damn did it work. I don't care if I'm threatened to be lynched at some point. I helped lynched the mafia pairs, but they weren't original cases of mine, I admit. My original cases fall in line with your pair, Reck/Nero, and Emp. Right now I'd hold it at just your pair, possibly Emp, and least likely but possibly Ashblade for something I went over yesterday that I've noticed in his posting.

If a vezok or silavor style lynch is what you're talking about, I don't have as much of an issue. If we get lynched quickly, we get lynched quickly, and people give their reasons, and that's that.

What I did NOT want to see is 3 to 4 pairs lynched one after another, with little or no regard for what one of them actually flipped before the next one bit the dust. And certainly not voted for with reasons the equivalent of, "Vote: Maritya - next scummy pair on the list, let's get this over with so we can get to the real game." Which I think is a horrible and bad and complete responsibility-shirking type of vote...but if the consensus becomes that we just need to lynch XYZ pairs, and get them out of the way before the game can move on -- then there's zero reason anyone can ever be held accountable for casting votes like this. Unlike, say, what happend with vezok/Mist. Who COULD be held accountable and nailed for THEIR opportunistic sheeping votes, because the consensus was that people should actually be giving real reasons for voting for someone.

THIS is what I'm afraid of, THIS is what I saw you promoting with your "quicklynch a couple so we can move on, order's not important," and THIS SHOULD NOT HAPPEN. And it's what I thought you were damn scummy for proposing.

Kise wrote:People can still be individually scummy is what I'm getting at.

No argument there. But again, part of the reason we thought vezok/Mist were individually scummy were because of crud sheeping votes. Which is one thing, among others, that I thought/think your quicklynch process could deprive us of being able to observe.

tl;dr

* Wouldn't talking to me about Espy be a bit pointless, given your present convictions?
* See point 2 inside for the rephrase.
*

I

voted for vezok/Mist due to connections.

* Lynches that happen to proceed quickly =/= what you were proposing (or what I thought you were proposing).
* What you were proposing would decrease our ability to identify even some of those "individually scummy" things.

Hiraki · Post Post #1422 (ISO) » Tue Mar 08, 2011 12:53 am

How is Espeonage still alive, and why are we voting Reck.

Unvote

Not done yet, btw

Purple Orange · Post Post #1423 (ISO) » Tue Mar 08, 2011 1:29 am

Ashblade wrote:Personally I also think PO is stretching Kise's points to anti-sugar coat this wagon as much as possible (instead of making good reasons why she shouldn't be lynched, she's more suggesting why she shouldn't be lynched quickly.)

I'm arguing with Kise because I think his quicklynch-in-a-row proposal is damnedly antitown, and indicates he's scum. THAT'S why I've been making a big deal about people being lynched quickly. The person currently being lynched happens to be myself/Espy, but that's honestly tangential to the matter at hand. (And if you want a more detailed look at this, read the longest section in the spoiler section below). I've spent all yesterday arguing with and at him trying to figure out if this is a valid lead or a misinterpretation and dead end on my part.

Present conclusion =

Vote: Kise

I've tried to deal with specific concerns. But I can't convince someone I honestly forgot there were nightkills if they're convinced I'm lying. I can't convince someone I was doing precisely what I said I was doing on Day 2, if they're convinced I was doing something evilly sinister. At some point all I can say is, "Sorry, you're wrong." And Lord knows, when

I

don't even know what Espy is doing half the time, I'm not exactly sure how to defend HIM. (He gave his reasons for wanting Mariyta lynched, and they're there if you bother to ISO him. He hasn't even told ME why he thinks Kise is scum. I'm assuming because I give in and tell everyone the "why's" we talk about, and "spoil things" for him).

EmpTyger · Post Post #1424 (ISO) » Tue Mar 08, 2011 2:37 am

PO:
Who is Kise's partner?

Kise:

Kise wrote:I don't think anyone found a connection between vezok/Mist & KCD/BS, BUT HEY, we still got their asses strung up.

Speak for yourself. I wonder what would have happened had silavor & Charlie not had that perfect storm of imploding just as I was at my most self-doubting.

dramonic:

xRECKONERx wrote:Also, allow me to explain part of my bias, for full disclosure:

This is the last normal game that I'll be playing. I decided to retire, and I've signed up for one or two mini theme games, but after that, I'm done. And this is the last game dramonic signed up for with me, and I refuse to believe fate is such a cruel bitch that we ended up opposite alignments in our final game together.

This, plus my town read on him, makes me unwilling to lynch dramonic.

What is your reaction to this?

Hitari:
You weren't voting anyone. The mod hasn't had the most accurate votecounts, though it looks like it's been corrected.