Execution Mafia GAMEOVER!

[Umbrage]

SO could be scum, but I still read him as very poor town. Call it gut if you want. However this parroting of me is getting old. I'm fine with it if you want him dead, but he's not my first choice for a kill.

Am I the only one that thinks it seems like Tragedy has vanished?

[Final Fires]

SO could be scum, but I still read him as very poor town. Call it gut if you want. However this parroting of me is getting old. I'm fine with it if you want him dead, but he's not my first choice for a kill.

What happened to this?

If SV flips scum Tragedy should die, and if SV flips scum StrungOver should die.

[Final Fires]

Whoops, that second quote is supposed to read "if SV flips town SO should die". I copied and pasted it directly from Umbrage, but he later clarified that he meant town:

I'm for killing SO if SV flips town because it fits with my dual scum list theory, I'll get a clearer picture of who's who. Besides, he's not exactly adding much to the game.

[Umbrage]

That was before The Amrun Incident which tore apart the fabric of time and space and rendered everyone's previous scum and town reads useless.

[Haschel Cedricson]

If it was TS who suggested this, then I want TS dead before Amrun.

If Amrun is town, then scum would have voted him so he would kill vezok, and then Amrun would be an easy target today. Of course, if Amrun is scum, the same thing is true. But TS getting us to revote and save Umbrage, there's no excusing or explaining that.

Agreeing with this.

Also, I think we need to slow down. I can see Amrun being scum, and I can also see scum pushing an easy case on a townie. The wagon on Amrun built up REALLY fast. I'm not ready to decide which one it is today.

If Amrun IS scum, then TS also gets scumpoints for being so eager to volunteer to be the Amrun-Executioner.

FF: A daycop seems incredibly likely since vezok was concerned about living through a night.

1) Did you see in thread where FF was suggested as a backup?
2) If so, why did you not vote him when amrun declared she was going rogue?
3) If you had a problem with FF as the backup, why did you not state IN THREAD that you disagreed?
4) If you didn't see it, why are you just skimming the thread because it's there a few times.

1) Yes.
2) I forgot.
3) N/A
4) I've had a ton of essays for my graduate program. By the by, this week I'm going to have the same situation. My schedule should clear up significantly after that. I'll still be here, but don't expect any walls of text.

Tragedy, I was pretty clear about you being one of my top scum reads yesterday. Why did you vote for me specifically?

[Setael]

Haschel and charter both earn scum points for trying to derail the amrun wagon without giving any kind of reason why her move makes sense as town.

[Umbrage]

If Amrun IS scum, then TS also gets scumpoints for being so eager to volunteer to be the Amrun-Executioner.

I assume you mean if she's town?

Haschel and charter both earn scum points for trying to derail the amrun wagon without giving any kind of reason why her move makes sense as town.

FF did the same thing in ISO #66.

Also, we don't

know

that Am is scum yet. Is there a pretty good chance of her being scum? Yes. Do we know? Nope. When you say stuff like that it makes it difficult for me to get a read on you. Yesterday you knew that SV was going to flip town, and now you know that Am is going to flip scum?

[Setael]

@FF: Do you think TS' reference to pilgrims makes him more likely a PR or scum? I find is suspicious that you pointed that out if you don't think it's scummy. Why would you out a possible PR?

If Amrun IS scum, then TS also gets scumpoints for being so eager to volunteer to be the Amrun-Executioner.

I assume you mean if she's town?

I think he did mean scum, with the point being that TS' willingness to execute is hoping to get town points when amrun flips scum. I can potentially see this argument (that TS is bussing Amrun) first because it's a logical scum move at this point because she IS dying today. Second, TS' initial posts in D2 did not give the impression he was very upset with Amrun's move (not defending but more of a "bummer, man" that does not represent the frustration I felt at least). That alone wouldn't be such a big deal, but the way he has gotten more onboard with the Amrun wagon because of other players' posting could very well be a scum buddy realizing it's not the best move to defend amrun at this point - better to try for the town cred for bussing. Based on his early D2 posts, I don't think he'd have gone that route if the town didn't. I don't really have a problem with TS being the day executioner since if he doesn't kill amrun we'll lynch him tomorrow, but I do not think he should be the night vote.

[Twistedspoon]

I can potentially see this argument (that TS is bussing Amrun) first because it's a logical scum move at this point because she IS dying today. Second, TS' initial posts in D2 did not give the impression he was very upset with Amrun's move (not defending but more of a "bummer, man" that does not represent the frustration I felt at least).

Bussing on day 2? In this instance that actually does seem possible from your point of view. I probably wouldn't be clever enough to have thought of that anyways if i was scum :/
With your second point then I regret not showing my frustration as I do now. It took a while to realise what had happened. Also, I thought the day 1 Amrun seemed kinda town, so it took a while to sink in. What matters is now though and we must lynch our most anti-town players. Without a doubt, due to killing the cop, this is Amrun.

TS being the day executioner since if he doesn't kill amrun we'll lynch him tomorrow, but I do not think he should be the night vote.

I don't want the night vote, I want us avenge our cop today.
Actually, I don't care who is the executioner as long as we execute Amrun, I'd just have a sense of satisfaction in doing so.

[Tragedy]

@Haschel: Picking the Night Executioner was quite difficult, for it being it

was

possible that Amrun would suddenly pull off a different move instead of actually Not Killing somebody. (Dum-Dum-dee-doodle-lee-dooo..) Besides, you're quite an interesting pirate-wanna-be but yet, you seem focused in a good way... (I do sort of mind some disappearances, but..)

[Umbrage]

I think he did mean scum, with the point being that TS' willingness to execute is hoping to get town points when amrun flips scum.

Don't answer for other players please.

[Setael]

I think he did mean scum, with the point being that TS' willingness to execute is hoping to get town points when amrun flips scum.

Don't answer for other players please.

I thought it was pretty obvious that was what he meant, but I should've at least clarified that that was my interpretation of his meaning and if so, I agreed with it. Or I should've just waited until he responded. Point taken.

[Umbrage]

Even when I think I know the answer to a question, I ask it anyway. The best way to catch scum is to get them saying something bad. The best way to get people to say something bad is to ask the right question.

[Haschel Cedricson]

If Amrun IS scum, then TS also gets scumpoints for being so eager to volunteer to be the Amrun-Executioner.

I assume you mean if she's town?

No, I meant scum. If Amrun is scum, then TS looks like a scumbuddy who knows how the flip is going to go and wants to earn town points. I don't necessarily see why TownAmrun would indicate ScumTS, at least not strongly enough for you to reach that conclusion instead of what I described.

[Setael]

I'm having a hard time finding time to reread so rather than wait until I'm finished I'm going to post points as I come across them.

As exe points out (p 105), amrun's post listing her initial impressions is very safe, but I still think it'd be helpful to analyze what she said. Here it is:

Okay, now for my impressions:

Top scum pick: vezo.

"Oh, I wasn't fishing, I was... *wanders off*"

Scummy. Scum scum scum scum.

Shattered View Point is my #2. He's pushing the TS wagon so hard ... And so, so badly. All of his points are terrible stretches. Speculation is not rolefishing, but asking scummy fishquestions like vezo did is. There are reasonable reasons to suspect TS, but SV's reasons are scummy.

My other reads are less strong and belong in a different category.

TS... Eh, the wagon is really terrible, in my opinion, but that doesn't make him NOT scum. Exe's strange actions kind of sum up the wagon on him: "you're promoting bad tactics" (a little stretch, but a valid point) right along with "saying things I have said previously is mudslinging" (terrible point, horrible misrep). Ie, some points against TS are good, but none are damning yet and people need to hold their horses. Still, TS is on my suspects list as a distant third. I think it's not stronger because I'm getting huge scumvibes from veso and SV who are pushing the TS wagon.

Ant has given me both town and scum pings.

Charter looks like he's trying hard to appear pro-town with an absolutely minimal amount of content.

Tragedy: total lack of content.

Cooldog: coming off newb town at this point, but only gave reads when asked. A little scummy.

Exe: started off with a trown read on him that moved rapidly into a null tell and may descend further, depending on his actions. At first, his logic was solid. Then, he pushed his own plans hard and relied on the town's townread of him to pull off some scummy tactics (ie post your reads NOW or you're on my hitlist) and then degenerated into some terrible logic.


My most solid townread is FF and it's the only one I will trust at this juncture, so...

VOTE: FF

As exe mentioned, "after an entire post of not mentioning FF, she votes FF as her "only town read" ? Meh."

Definitely possible she wanted to firmly put a scum buddy as town so as to be able to avoid a wagon on him. It's definitely odd that she doesn't give her reasons for finding him so town.

I also don't like what she says about ant and charter (or rather how she doesn't provide examples or say how she got these reads).

I posted the whole thing here for those of you who also don't have time/aren't rereading amrun. Thoughts on this initial post? Where do you think she'd place her buddies?

So then Amrun in post 148 said "@tragedy: Content soon or your stalling will be a scumtell." There's no mention of other players who also weren't posting much content. Granted, Tragedy had just posted promising content so it was in response to that, but it would make more sense if she called out all the absentees, but she didn't. Scum are definitely more likely to notice and call out a scum buddy who's lurking (helps you bus if they never stop and it's easy to sweep under the rug if they become active.

What makes this even worse is that not long after tragedy posts a wall of question without giving a single suspicion, instead of calling her out for it (like exe did) she answered her questions without pushing her for real content. This makes it pretty clear that she didn't really want content from tragedy, she just wanted her to stop lurking.

[Umbrage]

Actually, that post makes me think HC is right, TS could be her buddy. She's very "well I don't want him lynched but I'm not saying he's town but he's not one of my top suspects" which is rather odd.

[Ant_to_the_max]

I have been sick all day today. Should be feeling better in the morning

[Final Fires]

@FF: Do you think TS' reference to pilgrims makes him more likely a PR or scum? I find is suspicious that you pointed that out if you don't think it's scummy. Why would you out a possible PR?

What led you to believe that I don't think it's scummy?

But yes, I do think he's scummy otherwise I wouldn't have pointed it out.

I did a (very) brief ISO of each person, and here's my revised reads:

Amrun:

Scummy, for obvious reasons. It concerns me a little how she has been used as an attempt to stifle discussion regarding the way SV was voted though.

Ant:

Most notable for his general lack of content; he's definately lurking. At the start, he spent time speculating on the setup. This post in particular concerned me (sorry for it's length, I tried to trim it as much as I could):

anyways, reading the posts Exe seems to have everything under control; his ideas make the most sense

Your blatant sheeping has been noted for later examination.

A lot of other people could also be called out for sheeping like this too...why just pick on him?

The case on twistedspork is: sheeping, rolefishing, and blatant buddying.

Sheeping like other people have, more speculation that rolefishing (which others have already done here, but not him), and buddying like others have done.

TS, you are pretty eager to point a finger at whoever you can find, aren't you?

this is not sheeping and I am? seriously. I just said that my ideas were similar to Exe's. It's useful to know the thoughts and ideas of the other players otherwise they might as well not be players.

Regardless of what is and isn't sheeping, this IS mudslinging.

But he wasn't pointing a finger. He was pointing out the fact that he was being singled out for something other people have done too in this game. How is that mudslinging?

LOL at SV's OMGUS.

I'm getting more certain of SV being scum. He's pushing the TS wagon too hard. I still read TS as newbie confused town, I see no rolefishing going on, and I think SV is really reaching.

Not only is Shattered Viewpoint pushing it hard, but Exe as well. Wait....add charter to that list as well.

Third, I'm pretty sure Axe is scum.

Could you explain this?

His frequent posting, but saying nothing, especially post 14.

Wait wait wait...have you been talking about me? O.o

Twisted is also scummy. I wouldn't mind him getting killed, either. After Shattered mentions his name and sheeping, he immediately accuses other players of sheeping. Pretty poor defense.

Seriously...wtf is wrong with people here.

I think we should elect Exe, kill TS, and then at night elect whoever is willing to kill Umbrage after TS flips scum.

Haschel and SV also look mighty town.

And what happens if he flips town?

Revelation.

/Unvote; Vote: Exe

Everybody else should do the same preferably in their very next post.

OMG LOOK!!!!!!
Do you guys want to accuse him of sheeping too?

As for my vote, I am not going to give it to Exe here. I am not feeling this wagon on twistedspoon at all.

Ant's early game consisted of a lot of defending TS (although to be fair, today he doesn't want to give TS the executioner role). When I reread through his ISO, it felt like when he called out Vez for role fishing, it was more of a chainsaw defense for TS than actual scumhunting. In fact, when you go through his posts there's almost no scumhunting at all, just defending other players, speculating on the setup, buddying, or OMGUSing (see post #23). Also, I noticed he conflicted in his views in post #28 to #29:

I think that vezokpiraka or Tragedy would be a good lynch for today. Vezo still for things I have said way in the beginning still apply, and for Tragedy I just feel is scummy from all her posts. The one good one isn't going to make up for the scummy 20 questions posts.

[Vezok's soft claim] doesn't sit well with me, but then again I have to think about what happened in my last game. On D1 someone claimed a PR at L-3 or L-2 (very first wagon of the game too), then claimed what his power was (which he actually semi-lied about), and end the end turned out to be on the town side. Main difference here though is vezok didn't fess up a power. I think FF might have brought this up earlier, but the best course of action might be to let him live today and have him fess up tomorrow and we decide on him from there.

On #28 he says he thinks Vez should be lynched; in the next he says we should let him live for one more day. To be fair though, they were one day apart and I'm not sure what new points were raised between them. For now I'm leaning scummy on Ant, but he's not my strongest scum read.

Charter:

Looks very town to me now. Early on he defended SV, and I find myself agreeing with a lot of his scum reads now. I wouldn't mind if he was executioner today.

Exe:

Pretty much the same stuff as Charter. He defended SV, and now that some people have flipped I agreed with his reads. Likewise, I wouldn't mind if he was executioner today. Vez's certainty that Exe was town also plays a little into my read of him.

HC:

Is lacking in content, but I still have a leaning town read on him. He doesn't have a lot of scumhunting, but when he does I find myself agreeing with it now.

Set:

Difficult for me to get a read on. Seems mostly town, but her confidence in how people will flip concerns me.

SO:

There is absolutely no way that SO is town. He has not done a single protown thing throughout the course of this game. He is my top scum read right now, and I think we should seriously consider having him be NK'd tonight. Just read post #8 in his ISO and tell me that he's town. After he gave his initial scum reads, he spent the rest of the day begging us to kill Vezo. He flip flops between wanting to do a no kill so our PRs can gather info, and between us killing Vez, at the time our alleged PR. Seriously, just read his ISO. We would be making a huge mistake if we let this guy stay around much longer.

Tragedy:

I feel really confident that she's town, just because of one thing she said. I misunderstood what she was saying the first time around, but now I get it:

Meanwhile, there's only WITCHES, as some would obviously read and notice from their Role PM as well, amIRight?

This is an extremely bold thing to say, and I find it very hard to believe that scum would even dare say something like this, especially so early on in the game. This practically confirmed her as town for me.

TS:

Scummy. Pretty much all of my thoughts on TS have been said before in this thread by others, but if anyone asks I can echo why I'm suspicious of him.

Umbrage:

Still scum. I've explained why before, but if anyone asks I can reiterate why.

Also, quick votecount recap:

Vezok: 2 (Amrun, StrungOver)
Umbrage: 6 (Tragedy, FF, Exe, Charter,

Vezok

, Haschel)
Shattered Viewpoint: 3 (Umbrage, Twistedspoon, Setael)
Tragedy: 1 (Ant)
StrungOver: 1 (

Shattered Viewpoint

)

Take it for what you want. All of my top town reads now were on the Umbrage wagon, and SO was only voted for by a confirmed townie. For me, I can conclude that the Umbrage/SO wagon was definately not scum driven, where as now it looks like the SV one was. The final vote count:

Shattered Viewpoint: 7 (Amrun, Seteal, Twistedspoon, Umbrage, SO, Tragedy, Ant_to_the_max)
Umbrage: 6 (FF, Exe, Charter,

Vezok

, Haschel,

SV

)

[StrungOver]

Well first off there is NO doubt in my mind that vezo was the scummiest player in this game yesterday. The main reason I wanted him dead was because I'd heard that he looks scummy no matter what. So I figured we may as well get him out of the way so he doesn't interfere with our reads. Vezo's flip though does make me find Exe way more town, but still exe is 4th on my list. The other three are Stel, FF, and Amrun. I will post reasons tomorrow when I'm not in bed on my phone throwing up.

[Final Fires]

Well first off there is NO doubt in my mind that vezo was the scummiest player in this game yesterday.

The main reason I wanted him dead was because I'd heard that he looks scummy no matter what.

So I figured we may as well get him out of the way so he doesn't interfere with our reads. Vezo's flip though does make me find Exe way more town, but still exe is 4th on my list. The other three are Stel, FF, and Amrun. I will post reasons tomorrow when I'm not in bed on my phone throwing up.

So essentially, you wanted to set up the easiest lynch possible?

And what are you sick with? The flu? (This is relevant, I promise.)

[Twistedspoon]

Tragedy:

I feel really confident that she's town, just because of one thing she said.

But wouldn't that just be the perfect tactic for scum? Get a town read from one bold statement and then:

Am I the only one that thinks it seems like Tragedy has vanished?

town read forever?

anyways, I agree with the exe read.

I assume the conclusion you're getting at with your final vote count is that Umbrage is scum since 2 confirmed townies and your top town reads all voted umbrage?
The case against me? shrug. I wanted a majority should we decide to execute umbrage. How was I to know 7 people would all pick SV?
as for the rest I've seen no-reason why I've acted anti-town, but I'm not interested in talking about my townieness. I am the only confirmed townie I know, and there's no point me talking about it

I want to hurry up and decide on who we want to execute today. Let's vote and make it official.
gtg for now; school
~Twistedspoon

[Exe]

but exe is scum

Vezo's flip though does make me find Exe way more town, but still exe is 4th on my list. The other three are Stel, FF, and Amrun. I will post reasons tomorrow when I'm not in bed on my phone throwing up.

SO is so scummy it hurts. But that's nothing new.


Some important things to note:

1. Setael was the one who orchestrated the SV instead of Umbrage lynch. It's not damning, but it's worth noting.
2. Not a single person is discussing the SV flip, as a result of Amrun's actions. I'd be willing to bet that a portion of the people who started the initial Amrun-die discussion are scum as a result.
3. I have doubts on Amrun's scumminess. Not enough to give her any sorts of free pass, but enough that I am not ready to see her dead without some time for her to interact. I just can't seem to place her in the scum-teams I suspect.
4. There are clearly liars in the Night-Vote count, unless 3 people that claimed they voted Amrun were scum. Also, it is somewhat odd the number of people that voted for someone other than Amrun or FF.
5. I strongly feel like a lot of what is going on at this point is just noise. It's just a gut feeling, but something is off with the amount of discussion.
6. I'm getting bored and would like to see some crazy shit happen, so I may do something crazy. This is just a random note/warning.

As for today's plan: I think we should make me or I guess FF executioner, and then I will show exactly what went wrong last time.

Vote: FF

since I can't vote for myself.

[Twistedspoon]

4. There are clearly liars in the Night-Vote count, unless 3 people that claimed they voted Amrun were scum. Also, it is somewhat odd the number of people that voted for someone other than Amrun or FF.

this

since I can't vote for myself.

actually you can

[Setael]

I don't think there's much info to gain from SV's wagon due to the inside information I have on the main person who wanted SV lynched instead of umbrage (that person being me and that inside info being my alignment). At least one townie saw SV as a lot scummier than umbrage and since I was wrong, as a townie, the others voting SV may well also be townies who were also wrong. Because we don't know umbrage's alignment we can't know if there was any scum motivation to move from one wagon to the other. Drawing any conclusions would be assuming umbrage is scum. It does make sense, however, that scum may have stayed off SV's wagon because they knew he was about to flip town (whereas there would be no immediate info about umbrage). I'll look into that when I have a minute.

Everyone else should be looking into SV's wagon, I suppose, because they don't have this inside info about me.

[Umbrage]

town read forever?

Tragedy's a slight scum read of mine.

I can kind of see where Exe is coming from. We need to decide:

Who will die if Amrun is town?
Who will die if Amrun is scum?

I could care less who the executioner is. I think we've made it clear: if you fuck up, we will kill you. No excuses. I doubt scum will try and pull any more shit.

I still can't shake a gut read of town for SO. I would prefer a Tragedy kill, she's done even less than SO.

Everyone else should be looking into SV's wagon, I suppose, because they don't have this inside info about me.

Well I won't, I know the vote was between two townies. Scum had no more reason to attack SV than me. In fact, scum is most likely the people who tried to avoid making a choice between us, so they wouldn't be under suspicion. I should look at that... Anyway, I see no reason why TS would push for a revote as scum, it wouldn't make much of a difference. In fact, TS eliminated vezok as a potential kill, something scum wouldn't like to do.

Whoa. Whoa. I just got a massive jolt of clarity.

Why would ScuAmrun want to disrupt the plans for the NK? Because they were headed in a direction that was bad for scum. If Amrun is scum, she knew SV would flip town. As I recall, if SV was town, the plan was to kill SO. What if Amrun ended the day prematurely and killed vezok to save her scumbuddy from certain death?

I need to reread to see if it makes sense with last day's play, but an Amrun/SO team is looking pretty good right now...