Execution Mafia GAMEOVER!

[Umbrage]

Since Exe is already making the night kill (or only needs one or two more votes), I think FF could be trusted to kill Umbrage tonight. Or SO, or charter even. Or me. I'd be fine with any of these.

Why SO?

execute amrun
night kill umbrage

What's with the sudden change of heart?

Umbrage, quote one post you've made that's been good scumhunting.

I take your resort to ad hominem as a sign that you can't properly defend yourself.

I could say the same thing about your answer. In fact, almost your entire defense was "attack the person" (ad hominem) over anything else:

AND YOU WOULD UNDERSTAND MY LOGIC IF YOU STARTED THINKING FOR A CHANGE.

Above statement is total bullshit. FF is trying to bamboozle you. Don't fall for it, please.

JUST BECAUSE YOU SAY IT DOESN'T MAKE IT TRUE!!!!!!!

FF: Hey, does anyone find Tragedy scummy?

Umbrage and a few other guys: Yeah, we do!

FF: Well, you're wrong because of this shitty logic that I just made up!

THE END

Also, I don't see how asking you to point out one time you've scumhunted as ad hominem at all.

MORE BULLSHIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! FF CAN'T RESPOND TO MY ARGUMENTS SO HE'S PLAYING THE OOH UMBRAGE LIKES TO POST IN CAPS LETS LYNCH HIM CARD!!!!!!!!!!!! AND YOU ARE FALLING FOR IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ISN'T THAT GREAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Final Fires]

MORE BULLSHIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! FF CAN'T RESPOND TO MY ARGUMENTS SO HE'S PLAYING THE OOH UMBRAGE LIKES TO POST IN CAPS LETS LYNCH HIM CARD!!!!!!!!!!!! AND YOU ARE FALLING FOR IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ISN'T THAT GREAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

More ad hominem. And there's nothing for me to respond to, because pretty all you said was, "Final Fires is a liar! Don't trust him or his logic!".

And still no quote where he had good scumhunting.

So basically... It's from Umbrage, TS, Exe, SO, SV, Amrun then back to Umbrage.
Apparently, I guess these changes were caused by TS, SO and somehow Umbrage. I just had recently noticed, but I thought Amrun wanted to execute SO...

Can you clarify what you mean by this?

[StrungOver]

What's with the sudden change of heart?

No change of heart, only stability of mind.

[Tragedy]

Original Executionees. People who were about to be executed and chosen to were on the big list.

Apparently, three people in the smaller list had somehow gotten those wagons derailed. And I don't get why.

[Umbrage]

OK. I was all set to just fuck this game and let you sheep kill me. But my damn conscience won't let me do it. I really want to win this. So here I am, trying to get you all to see reason.

Final Fires has not responded to my latest arguments in the least. Everything coming from him now is ad hominem, he thinks that by critiquing my play he can shift attention off of his own. His reasoning of why Tragedy is town is weak. Trust me, scum know they are the witches, and they know we are the puritans. What's more, he ignores the fact that since I claimed the right role name, I am town by his own logic, since I know what the town PM is like. I knew the role name, Tragedy knew the win con. There is no difference. Either we are both confirmed town, or neither of us are confirmed anything. And yet, Final Fires tries to have his cake and eat it too. He insists Tragedy is town, and I am scum. The logic applies to her, but it doesn't to me.

Final Fires, Exe, and now Setael have taken over this game. Nobody says poop without their consent. This allows players like charter, Ant, Cedricson, and Tragedy to get away with the bare minimum scum hunting. This is not a healthy environment. I have not seen a single case on one of the latter players that hasn't lost momentum and died, mainly because one of the big players says they are town, and nobody questions them. Take the current example, I was under practically no suspicion until I started to attack Final Fires. When Final Fires started attacking me in return, (OMGUS?) everyone jumped on the wagon. Just like how nobody dared question that Amrun was the kill for today. I think she should be the kill, but it is odd how nobody was defending her, and nobody was suggesting an alternative to killing her. Why? Because nobody wanted to go up against Setael. I originally mistook this sheeping for scumplay, which resulted in SV's death. I'm wiser now. This is a symptom of the town.

Nobody is objective in this game. The mad rush on SO yesterday caused a panic in me. I went against the herd to try and slow it down, I didn't care about SO, I was worried about what was happening to everyone else. There always has to be someone playing devil's advocate. Someone against the lynch. Someone wondering if what we are doing is the best thing for the town. If we don't do that, mistakes are made. And we are forced to follow the leaders, leaders who may be scum.

I have put together a solid case on Final Fires. He's ignoring it now, hoping my quick death will be the end of his troubles. You are listening to him for no other reason than he is the town leader. He makes long posts and sounds smart. But his logic is flawed. I've pointed them out.

Honestly, at this point, who would I be partnered with as scum? I've attacked or been attacked by everyone here. Even my little parrot SO has turned against me, for no other reason than it's the way the wagon is headed, a wagon that has the blessing of Setael and Final Fires.

I don't care if you hate me, or my playstyle. But I do care if you lynch me because of it. Being condescending does not make me scum. Being brash does not mean I don't make good arguments. Sometimes I wonder if anyone bothers reading my posts. I suppose I could've been quieter, toed the line and kept any flaws with our leaders' play to myself. But that's not what you do to win. Winning is all that matters. Each post I made was what I thought the town needed. If someone was being unreasonable, I tried to slap them straight. If the town was chaotic, I tried to instill some order. These are not the actions of mafia. I ask you to read my posts, only my posts, and determine whether they are coming from scum or mafia. Don't listen to what Final Fires and Setael tell you. Their information is tainted. The only person you can trust is yourself. Make your own decisions.

[Final Fires]

Sorry for this long post. I'll address Umbrage's argument point by point:

Final Fires has not responded to my latest arguments in the least. Everything coming from him now is ad hominem, he thinks that by critiquing my play he can shift attention off of his own.

What points would you still like me to address? Most of the points you made against me in this post I've already addressed.

His reasoning of why Tragedy is town is weak.

It's not difficult to know that a vanilla townie is called. It is difficult to know what the town win condition is, unless you are in fact town. Especially in this game, because the win condition is different than a typical town win condition.

Trust me, scum know they are the witches, and they know we are the puritans.

There's nothing to deny about this; mafia is a game of an informed minority vs an uninformed majority. That's common knowledge.

What's more, he ignores the fact that since I claimed the right role name, I am town by his own logic, since I know what the town PM is like.

Claiming "vanilla townie" is not impressive nor does it confirm you as town. The main reason I asked was because a failure to do so

would

confirm you as scum.

Earlier you suggested that the witches have names with no flavor - that they're just called 'mafia'. If this is the case, then they would have even less of a problem coming up with a good fakeclaim. They could not however, produce a win condition. That's the difference between you and Tragedy.

I knew the role name, Tragedy knew the win con. There is no difference. Either we are both confirmed town, or neither of us are confirmed anything. And yet, Final Fires tries to have his cake and eat it too. He insists Tragedy is town, and I am scum. The logic applies to her, but it doesn't to me.

There is a huge difference, as explained above.

Final Fires, Exe, and now Setael have taken over this game. Nobody says poop without their consent.

This is just flat out not true. Everything people say is open to being asked questions. Just because I do ask people a lot of questions, and make cases against people does not mean that "I've taken over this game".

This allows players like charter, Ant, Cedricson, and Tragedy to get away with the bare minimum scum hunting. This is not a healthy environment

I can't help but notice that he left SO out of here.

And yesterday I suggested that some of the lurkers were scummy, but Umbrage called me scum for it. In fact, Umbrage tried to avoid starting conversation on lurkers at all Day One. Now that lurkers are not the center of the discussion today, and he's calling me scum for it. Double standard?

Plus blaming me for other players lurking is not a fair accusation at all.

I have not seen a single case on one of the latter players that hasn't lost momentum and died, mainly because one of the big players says they are town, and nobody questions them.

As far as I remember, there has not been a significant case made on any of the players that he mentioned. That's probably the first big reason that they lost momentum. And if there was, I had no part in it losing momentum.

Take the current example, I was under practically no suspicion until I started to attack Final Fires. When Final Fires started attacking me in return, (OMGUS?) everyone jumped on the wagon.

-I was your top town read.
-I put a little bit of suspicion on SO.
- You lightly tried to stop me from putting pressure on SO.
- SO posted something very scummy. I called him out on it.
- Immediately you chainsaw defended him at all costs, to the point where

everyone

who accused him became one of your scum reads, and people who did not put pressure on him became your town reads.

The problem was not that you defended SO. It was how you defended SO. Townies don't defend one another the way you defended him.

Just like how nobody dared question that Amrun was the kill for today. I think she should be the kill, but it is odd how nobody was defending her, and nobody was suggesting an alternative to killing her. Why? Because nobody wanted to go up against Setael.

I don't know what others intentions are for not disagreeing with an Amrun kill, but I haven't spoken up because I don't think it's a bad move. I still think executing you or SO is a better move, but Amrun has a solid case against her right now.

I originally mistook this sheeping for scumplay, which resulted in SV's death. I'm wiser now. This is a symptom of the town.

If you thought scum were sheeping SV, why did you still push a lynch against him before it came down to you vs him for yesterdays lynch?

Nobody is objective in this game. The mad rush on SO yesterday caused a panic in me. I went against the herd to try and slow it down, I didn't care about SO, I was worried about what was happening to everyone else.

You did more than try to slow SO's wagon down. You tried to entirely derail it by attacking everyone who was suspicious of SO. Ultimately you were successful.

And according to the last post you made on SO, you still have a town read on him, suggesting you do care about SO more than you claim.

There always has to be someone playing devil's advocate. Someone against the lynch. Someone wondering if what we are doing is the best thing for the town. If we don't do that, mistakes are made. And we are forced to follow the leaders, leaders who may be scum.

True. However, the devil's advocate could always just as easily be scum as the leaders.

I have put together a solid case on Final Fires.

I'm pretty certain that I've addressed each point you brought up in this post before, so it's not solid at all. Are there any other points that I missed?

He's ignoring it now, hoping my quick death will be the end of his troubles. You are listening to him for no other reason than he is the town leader. He makes long posts and sounds smart. But his logic is flawed. I've pointed them out.

Just because you say my logic is flawed doesn't make it so. If you're referring to post #127 in your ISO, I've already talked about that. There's no way I can address what is essentially you saying "I think your logic is wrong!" if you don't point out

what

the flaws in my logic are.

Honestly, at this point, who would I be partnered with as scum? I've attacked or been attacked by everyone here. Even my little parrot SO has turned against me, for no other reason than it's the way the wagon is headed, a wagon that has the blessing of Setael and Final Fires.

If I were to assume you were scum for certain, this would be a good place for people to start bussing. SO's sudden turning on you doesn't make you look any more town.

I don't care if you hate me, or my playstyle. But I do care if you lynch me because of it. Being condescending does not make me scum.

Nobody is proposing lynching you because of your playstyle.

Being brash does not mean I don't make good arguments.

Nobody is proposing your arguments are bad because they're brash. They're bad because they've all been refuted.

Sometimes I wonder if anyone bothers reading my posts. I suppose I could've been quieter, toed the line and kept any flaws with our leaders' play to myself. But that's not what you do to win. Winning is all that matters. Each post I made was what I thought the town needed. If someone was being unreasonable, I tried to slap them straight. If the town was chaotic, I tried to instill some order.

Town needs scum hunting more than anything.

I'm going to ask you one more time to quote a place where you've had good, sound scum hunting. Please don't dodge this question again.

These are not the actions of mafia. I ask you to read my posts, only my posts, and determine whether they are coming from scum or mafia. Don't listen to what Final Fires and Setael tell you. Their information is tainted. The only person you can trust is yourself. Make your own decisions.

There's not much response I can give to this, but just to be fair I put it in here.

I apologize if I come across brash and condesending too, to any of the players in this game. It's not my intention to intimidate or bully anyone, I just have a gameplay that revolves more around interrogating others. Umbrage, I hope that you know I'm questioning you because I dislike you as an individual or because I dislike your gameplay, but rather because at this point you're my strongest scum read. I hope that you're not taking any of my cases against you personally, because that's not my intention at all.

[Final Fires]

Oops! This is supposed to read:

Umbrage, I hope that you know I'm NOT questioning because I dislike you as an individual or because I dislike I yoru gameplay, but rather because you're my strongest scum read.

[Exe]

OK. I was all set to just fuck this game and let you sheep kill me. But my damn conscience won't let me do it. I really want to win this. So here I am, trying to get you all to see reason.

Of course you want to win. Surprise surprise?

Nobody is objective in this game.

Oh my fucking god, will you stop with this argument? YOU aren't fucking objective. Welcome to the motherfucking club, yeah?
But let's show some examples!!

Everything coming from him now is ad hominem,

False.

I've attacked or been attacked by everyone here.

Not a good case for being anything really.

There always has to be someone playing devil's advocate.

LOL. This is your excuse for having shit cases and shit arguments all game? Got it.

I have put together a solid case on Final Fires.

This is subjective. And false.

Being brash does not mean I don't make good arguments.

But objectively, you don't make good arguments. See SV and Vezo for proof.

If someone was being unreasonable, I tried to slap them straight.

Subjective.

If the town was chaotic, I tried to instill some order.

Subjective.



LONG STORY SHORT, THAT ENTIRE POST IS JUST NOISE. I'm not letting your lies infect this town any longer Umbrage.

[Twistedspoon]

uh

can we move onto a vote for who to execute now that exe is executioner?

[Setael]

That's done. Amrun is going to be killed today. I welcome anyone's attempt at defending her, but no promises it will change my mind.

We're now discussing who should be night killed and who should be voted to do it.

I'm in support of voting FF to kill umbrage.

[Umbrage]

I'm in class now. I have been working on a response to FF on my home computer, and will send it later.

[Umbrage]

What points would you still like me to address? Most of the points you made against me in this post I've already addressed.

I made a post outlining how your logic regarding PMs was flawed. Instead of arguing the merits of the case, you started asking me for... posts where I was scumhunting? And flat-out disregarding my case. I'm not trying to find posts where you feel I was scumhunting when you can just yell 'speculation' at anything.

It's not difficult to know that a vanilla townie is called. It is difficult to know what the town win condition is, unless you are in fact town. Especially in this game, because the win condition is different than a typical town win condition.

I see. But what if, just like how the townie PM mentions witches, the mafia PM mentions puritans? Odds are that it does, mods like to keep the same format for both scum and town PMs. It's easy to assume the mafia were able to figure out that the town PM mentions witches.

Earlier you suggested that the witches have names with no flavor - that they're just called 'mafia'. If this is the case, then they would have even less of a problem coming up with a good fakeclaim. They could not however, produce a win condition. That's the difference between you and Tragedy.

It makes sense that the mafia wincon is in the same format as the town's. So the mafia wincon would say something about puritans. If I could figure that out, it's a certainty the mafia know about it.

This is just flat out not true. Everything people say is open to being asked questions. Just because I do ask people a lot of questions, and make cases against people does not mean that "I've taken over this game".

Whether or not you've done it intentionally, your voice carries a lot of weight. Just look at my wagon for evidence. But instead of checking who's scummy on the wagon, you are tunneling me, and not looking at the impact you are having.

I can't help but notice that he left SO out of here.

I did mention SO in that post. Either you missed it, which means you haven't read carefully, or you are misrepresenting me. Honestly, what am I supposed to think at this point?

And yesterday I suggested that some of the lurkers were scummy, but Umbrage called me scum for it. In fact, Umbrage tried to avoid starting conversation on lurkers at all Day One. Now that lurkers are not the center of the discussion today, and he's calling me scum for it. Double standard?

Encouraging activity is different than attacking lurkers. Maybe if vezok hadn't had the entire town against him, he could've claimed, could've done some scumhunting. I believe most of the lurkers are town. But they aren't contributing. The solution is not to say they are scum.

As far as I remember, there has not been a significant case made on any of the players that he mentioned. That's probably the first big reason that they lost momentum. And if there was, I had no part in it losing momentum.

So you see my point. Whether or not this 'leader' system is your fault, it's causing problems. One of the main reasons I think you are scum with Exe is because although you two disagree a lot, you don't attack each other, or call each other scummy.

The problem was not that you defended SO. It was how you defended SO. Townies don't defend one another the way you defended him.

I really can't respond to this. I don't know how you think townies are supposed to defend each other. I've given my reasoning for my defence of SO, and I still believe it was the right thing to do.

If you thought scum were sheeping SV, why did you still push a lynch against him before it came down to you vs him for yesterdays lynch?

I meant that SV was sheeping Exe and other players.

And according to the last post you made on SO, you still have a town read on him, suggesting you do care about SO more than you claim.

I have a gut read of town on him. I know he's done scummy things, and I can understand the case against him, but every time I ask myself whether he is town or scum, I have to answer town. I mean to say that I don't care whether he lives or dies. My gut could be wrong, and he's no big loss to the town.

Just because you say my logic is flawed doesn't make it so. If you're referring to post #127 in your ISO, I've already talked about that. There's no way I can address what is essentially you saying "I think your logic is wrong!" if you don't point out what the flaws in my logic are.

More deflection. I have explained the flaws in your role PM logic.

If I were to assume you were scum for certain, this would be a good place for people to start bussing. SO's sudden turning on you doesn't make you look any more town.

So if anything this is a reason to kill SO. Your main point on me is how I defended SO. But these are only points against me if SO is scum. So why not lynch SO?

I'm going to ask you one more time to quote a place where you've had good, sound scum hunting. Please don't dodge this question again.

No. I will not do so. My ISO is there for everyone to look at. If there's something you think has not been good scum hunting, feel free to point it out. I am not digging out old posts for you to say "sorry, no".

STUFF

I understand that I cannot be fully objective, but can you name a player who has been more objective?

LONG STORY SHORT, THAT ENTIRE POST IS JUST NOISE. I'm not letting your lies infect this town any longer Umbrage.

Everything coming from you now is 'just noise'. Are you done posing for the cameras now, Mr. Pro-Town Superhero?

[mallowgeno]

Vote Count 2.3

Twistedspoon (2)-Umbrage, Twistedspoon

Exe (6)-Ant_to_the_max, Final Fires, Charter, Exe, StrungOver

Not Voting (4)-Haschel Cedricson, Amrun, Tragedy, Setael

The Townsfolk cry "We want Amrun's blood!" so they elect Exe as their executioner.

Exe, you now have the green light to execute at will!

Deadline is March 26th!

[Twistedspoon]

???

I thought I voted Exe, MG

[mallowgeno]

???

I thought I voted Exe, MG

You thought wrong

[Twistedspoon]

VOTE: Exe
meant to have done that yesterday

yeah, upon ISO'ing myself, I did vote Exe

MG missed me off the votecount though

[Twistedspoon]

MG

post 1026

I voted EXE

[Amrun]

VOTE: Exe

Why not.

[mallowgeno]

MG

post 1026

I voted EXE

Vote Count is correct

[Amrun]

Oh, a vote tampering ability...?

Why would someone have a vote tampering ability in this game?

That's quite interesting.

I don't even know what to make of it.

I have no idea what alignment it would be. Hmm.

[Tragedy]

A scum-faced one, obviously.
Or a politician, who knows.

The culprit would be

Umbrage

, by the way...

[Amrun]

Why would it be Umbrage?

If Umbrage had an ability, I doubt TS would be his target. He's been pushing FF and Exe too hard to target some random.

But then again, maybe he would, as I can't make hide nor tail of the ability itself.

[Setael]

Terrible poker face, Amrun. You very clearly know something about it.

[Tragedy]

Do you not remember how Politician's ability works, I wonder..?

[Umbrage]

A scum-faced one, obviously.
Or a politician, who knows.

The culprit would be

Umbrage

, by the way...