A Storm of Swords - Lay your swords down!

[Raivann]

And all scummy to boot!

[Thor665]

@Saetal - I was referring to Twilight and Feysal as the vote leaders, I hadn't realized Zdenek was a solid vote contender until that vote count post.
And, yes, the scumteam's plan was for me - the bastion of town energy - to blatantly tie myself to scumbuddy Feysal in order to clear him on Day 2. Yes.

@TwilightMina - I actually don't care one whit for the name (other than that the name was repeated) what I care about is the power and the nature of the claim. It's too sloppy and terrible to be a fakeclaim because...seriously. I'm pretty sure furcolow could come up with a better fakeclaim after an all night bender if the goal was to buy one more day. Plus, I've been in a game with scum Feysal and this doesn't feel like scum Feysal to me.

And Raivaan is angling for the lurker vote due to his constant repetition of "here's a list of lurkers, where are they? Huh? Harumph, harumph, harumph." I quoted two examples just a page or two back, but can dig them back up for you if you're desperate.

[Raivann]

Scum= thor/ ts

[Feysal]

I need to tiptoe really, really carefully around this, but I need to check out Consulmaker II to get a hint of how Feysal reacts to being wagoned as town.

That game won't help you I'm afraid, since it did not use votes, and I never was wagoned. The only game I can point you to is Halloween Saw-themed mafia, an off-site game, and the only time I've ever been this close to lynch. Oddly enough, I've never been lynched as town. The wagon on me occurs around pages 85-90.

On Thor: I cannot know why he is defending me like he is doing, but I can hazard a guess. As far as I know, he is more intimately familiar with my scum play than anyone else in the game. More I cannot say.

I think I'm going to shut up and let hito do the defending from now on. Otherwise, my posts will deteriorate into, "Anyone who was, is, or ever will be voting for us is stupid and sucks at Mafia, I hope you feel soooooooo guilty when we flip, and please DIAF." And then people will be all, "Look at the scum flailing! Her appeal to emotion

IS NOTED

." And then that will appeal to my own emotion of blind rage, and I'll end up arrested for manslaughter.

Reading this gave me some laughs. I'm glad to know I'm not the only one harboring violent fantasies about other players. Mine involve LynchMePls and sharp stakes. Not anyone else though.

[Magua]

Ah, Twilight Sparkle. I wrote two pages of replies to you, and ended up deleting it because I realized I could summarize it very easily:

If you think that my case has only been about your inactivity, then you've stopped reading my posts circa #1049. Furthermore, I really don't care about convincing you that I'm right and you're scum, since that's never going to happen, and at this point, neither is your lynch.

Mina's angry at me if I'm town. Trust me that the feeling is reciprocal. We'll find out soon enough.

[Raivann]

Magua's pwning scum!

[Ghostlin]

/picks up prod.

Guys, I'm not doing my 100% best with both games of the Larges I'm in, I'm have trouble catching up, and well, this isn't as fun as I'd thought it'd be.

That's my fault, no one elses, I didn't think the larges would be so problematic and I am sorry to inconvience anyone for it. I'd like to requst replacement, please.

[Raivann]

It's ok ghostlin, it's still fun. Just join me and Magua and Benmage. We gonna lynch some scum!
We'll leave you the hammer!

[Kast]

@DGB-
Switching to a number 3 wagon 2 days before deadline

in response to that wagon announcing it's going to switch at deadline

is equivalent to claiming preference for no-lynch over one of your top suspects.

@TS-
Wow, can't believe I read all that. I'm not sure I should have as it's mostly rehash.

Kast, you're working awfully hard to drive us off the zdenek wagon. But I see you called us "wasted voters" while NOT naming anyone else on the zdenek wagon as wasting their vote. Why is that?

Posts like this betray that you're not reading properly/carefully. I EXPLICITLY named Dana who was one of the 4 on the Zdenek wagon.

Feysal is another who will obviously not vote himself. BunnyLover is the last who is going to lose her vote come deadline.

Your vote was listed as wasted along with the others who were not voting a real wagon and had not named a preferred suspect of the two. I gave you an explicit and personal note with questions that very clearly and explicitly states why you should switch.

@Feysal's Claim-
I'm disinclined to believe Feysal's claim. If he thought he'd get lynched regardless of his claim, then lying to be a voyeur let's him potentially draw counter-claims. If he's unsure of whether his claim helps him, then picking Kast is pretty much the safest bet for someone unlikely to be targeted by anyone.

@BM-

I dont think most would call Seteal the most scummiest. (Maybe just noobs and scum…which are you again?) You, yourself put him in as acceptable lynch but not preferred. Inconsistent? Trying to make me sound meaner than I am?
- Backfired?

I never mentioned Setael as the most scummiest. This is a serious misrepresentation that's completely ridiculous given you quoted me immediately before explicitly naming the two players you protected who were top suspects for today.

Yeah...Curse giving people away the opportunity to catch up in thread! ( )

Damn the LMPv Feysal Sparkle V Zed cases.... ANTITOWN!!! All of it!

Tomorrow No speaking! Just VOTING! (sarcasm )

None of your sarcasm is relevant. If we successfully lynch anyone today, it'll be against all your best efforts to stop that. Tomorrow: don't be so anti-town.

@Dana-
The difference between you making a mistake and BM making a mistake is that BM has made it explicitly clear from the moment he became Hand that he has no interest in actually scumhunting or paying attention to this game OTHER THAN to make threats and watch everyone dance around to his tune. He's admitted he's not paying attention and doesn't care what anyone thinks of it. You haven't adopted the same attitude.

@Thor-
Pay attention to the game. Also, fix your vote. You're admittedly deciding between 2 or 3 of your top town reads. It really shouldn't matter that much which of them you vote; except that a vote for Zdenek is a vote for no lynch.

@TS/BL/Dana/DGB/Thor-
I'm realistically the only other player who is suspicious of Zdenek who is not currently voting him. CUT THE CRAP AND VOTE A VIABLE CANDIDATE.

@Cow-
You're a townie. Act like one. We have less than a day or it's no lynch.

@Shadow-
Thor's not getting lynched today. You're conflicted about Feysal, that's good enough for a compromise lynch. Move.

@Zdenek/Magua/Raivann/MoI-
The people voting Feysal are pretty convinced and unlikely to join your wagon. Our wagon is also bigger and more likely to succeed than yours. If you're waiting until the last moment to switch, it's here.

@BM-
Unless your plan was to ACTUALLY CAUSE A MISLYNCH, then put a vote on a candidate.

@Ghostlin-
If you're paying attention, we're at less than 24 hours to go, we are far away from any lynch, but Feysal is the closest with at least a few people who have said they'll join to avoid the no-lynch. Be one of those people.

[Twilight Sparkle]

If you think that my case has only been about your inactivity, then you've stopped reading my posts circa #1049.

I've been reading your posts. Your points are almost all "you should be more pro-town" (do you still think we are undercontributing?) or "I don't know who you think the scum are" (is this still the case?). About the only point independant of this is your dislike of my personal ISO Spectacular reads, which I've already addressed.

In particular, I read your 1321.

Here are some relevant quotes from 1321:

Twilight's case on Zdenek is exactly what I'm looking for out of that slot.

and:

Other than that, I like the case...but I'm not convinced by it. I could buy Zdenek as bussing diddin D1 where I can't buy diddin bussing Raivann. Twilight's suspicion of Zdenek is at least set-up for the last few days. But, I retain suspicion of Twilight Sparkle nonetheless. Call it lingering suspicion.

You like the case, but you're

not

convinced by it.

We also read your 1446. Here it is in all of it's manifold glory:

So, after ruminations, I've decided that I don't believe Zdenek is scum. Twilight's case on Zdenek is mostly "Here's a post-by-post analysis, and here's the scummy things I found" without tying it into, eg, actions that were taken and associations with already flipped scum. Rereading Zdenek's D1, I can see the possibility of the bus (unlike with Raivann), but it's far more likely that he's simply not scum.

My preferred lynch is Twilight Sparkle.
UNVOTE: Nexus
VOTE: Twilight Sparkle

I will vote Feysal near deadline to avoid a no lynch if necessary, but I'd rather by far lynch Twilight.

So, you don't think Zdenek is scum "after rumination." Why the rumination? You didn't think he was scum before - this post comes from the perspective of someone who voted Zdenek, but you didn't. You stumbled blindly onto Nexus without reasoning, went silent for four days, then stumbled back on to us. You didn't like that it didn't tie into "actions already taken" (what does that even mean) and "associations with already flipped scum" (absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, and anyway, you seem to dislike the primarily associative Feysal case). For that matter, what did you like about the case before that you don't like now? You seem to be implying that it once convinced you Zdenek was scum, and now does not, but that's a lie.

You justified your reasonless swap onto Nexus with "I did it to see if anyone would complain." This is terrible, awful, no-good-very-bad play for quite a few reasons:

• If you're voting insincerely, you should damn well explain the reasoning behind it clearly when the experiment is complete. Disavowing any responsibility to your Nexus vote is bad enough, but not saying so until pressured is even worse.
  
• As you've noticed, it's close to deadline. As you've also noticed, we're probably not getting lynched. So tell me, Magua, if we've always been the one you wanted most lynched, why sit idly on the Nexus wagon for so long?
  
• "I did it to see if anyone would complain" reduces down to "I did it to draw reactions"; the second on my list of Manchurian Candidate kill-phrases. Watch it catch Howard Roark scum here.

You're taking the position, basically, that you've always wanted us lynched the most. But that's not what 1321 reads as at all. And now you're dancing around the issue with cutesy non-answers like "I want you lynched cause you're scum lawl" and now "it's SO OBVIOUS why I want you lynched why should I say it?? Besides your lynch ain't gonna happen :'("

Furthermore, I really don't care about convincing you that I'm right and you're scum, since that's never going to happen, and at this point, neither is your lynch.

You're not stupid, Magua. Those two pages you "deleted" would have helped push our wagon and you know it. Your "case" on us is now covered with enough mold that scientists are discovering novel antibiotics on it. You're arguing that no, your case is not moldy, but you're still not going to post anything - while also complaining that we're not getting lynched today. We would be a far more likely wagon if you had taken the time to re-justify your case, and your continued unwillingness to do so suggests to me that I'm absolutely correct in my interpretation that the case is old news and you know it.

I'm also seriously unhappy with Raivann's shenanigans. He's cartoonishly mongering for our lynch and kissing up to Magua like there's no tomorrow. No justification of his reads at all, blatant acknowledgement that he feels no pressure to scumhunt if he's got the Hand's protection. But the best part - the absolute most wonderful shiny part - is that RIGHT NOW, even while he proclaims, "Just join me and Magua and Benmage. We gonna lynch some scum!", he's voting for Feysal,

who he has called town.

He can't even be bothered to keep his vote in line while he "scumhunts." (Mina has more to say on this.)

If you are similarly displeased with Raivann's antics, please sign the dotted line below:

Unnominate, Nominate: Raivann

Preview Edit:

Posts like this betray that you're not reading properly/carefully. I EXPLICITLY named Dana who was one of the 4 on the Zdenek wagon.

Feysal is another who will obviously not vote himself. BunnyLover is the last who is going to lose her vote come deadline.

You asked Dana in his own line if he would switch to Feysal come deadline. You then had a separate list of five players "wasting their votes". I don't think it's a stretch to say that this implies you are not counting dana as one of those players wasting their votes.

As for Bunnylover, I think it's fairly obvious that if a Nominate is triggered with less than a full majority at lynch, it would not ret-con the vote away and STOP the lynch. The lynch successfully resolving is the only reason the Nomination triggered in the first place, and so BL will not lose their vote if they are Nominated with less than a full majority.

You're right that we had neglected to remember that Feysal was a Zdenek voter who obviously wouldn't switch.

It's what, 22 hours to deadline? Yeah, Zdenek isn't getting lynched. Besides, our point regarding Zdenek's response to Ghostlin turned out to be a mis-interpretation. It's worth seeing him another day to see what he does when not tunneled on us (more on this tomorrow). Feysal's lack of a "these are my final reads, use them when I pass away" post is makin me itchy anyway.

Unvote, Vote: Feysal

-hito (with Mina's AIM approval)

[Eddard Stark]

Vote count 2.24

Twilight Sparkle (3) Zdenek, Magua, MagnaofIllusion
Bunnylover (1) Ghostlin
Ghostlin (1) DTMaster
Thor665 (2) Shadow1psc, hasdgfas

Feysal (8) LynchMePls, Setael, Kast, xvart, Nexus, Locke Lamora, Twilight Sparkle, Raivann

Zdenek (5) Bunnylover, Feysal, Danakillsu, DrippingGoofball, Thor665


Not voting (1) Benmage

With 21 alive it takes 11 to lynch. No majority at deadline and there'll be no lynch.

Envoy to the Eyrie

[/u]

Bunnylover (9) MagnaofIllusion, LynchMePls, Nexus, hasdgfas, Setael, Locke Lamora, Kast, Danakillsu, xvart

Raivann (4) Bunnylover, Ghostlin, Feysal, Twilight Sparkle
Thor665 (3) Zdenek, Benmage, DrippingGoofball
Nexus (1) Raivann,
xvart (1) DTMaster
Twilight Sparkle (1) Magua

Not nominating (2) Shadow1psc, Thor665

With 21 alive it takes 11 to sent someone to the Eyrie. When deasdline hits Bunnylover will be sent to the Eyrie at this rate.

* DTMaster is being replaced. Ghostlin is being replaced.
* Any mistakes in the VC point them out
*The deadline can be found here. DEADLINE IMMINENT

[Twilight Sparkle]

Mod: Raivann is voting for Feysal, not Zdenek.

[Eddard Stark]

Thanks.

[MagnaofIllusion]

I'll catchup later but don't think a No-lynch is a good plan ...

UNVOTE: Twilight Sparkle
VOTE: Feysal

[Shadow1psc]

It's ok ghostlin, it's still fun. Just join me and Magua and Benmage. We gonna lynch some scum!
We'll leave you the hammer!

What the hell kinda post?

Seriously, are people watching Raivann? It's like he's going "Nyah nyah, I'm not gonna be lynched today, I don't even have to try."

[LimMePls]

It's like he's going "Nyah nyah, I'm not gonna be lynched today, I don't even have to try."

It's not like that, IT'S EXACTLY THAT. We're like less than 24 hours to go, and he's on Benmage's "do not lynch list". He's not getting lynched today.

The irony of you describing Raivann's play that way is delicious. FUCKING SAY/DO SOMETHING USEFUL SHADOW! AT THE VERY MINIMAL VOTE A WAGON THAT ACTUALLY HELPS US. CAMPING YOUR VOTE ON THOR(2) WAGON IS SO TERRIBLE I DON'T EVEN KNOW WHAT TO SAY.

[Thor665]

@Thor-
Pay attention to the game.

Yes mom. You could tell me specifically where you feel I'm dropping the ball in a way that needs more attention though, unless all it is is the following, but your use of 'also' suggests it isn't;

Also, fix your vote. You're admittedly deciding between 2 or 3 of your top town reads. It really shouldn't matter that much which of them you vote; except that a vote for Zdenek is a vote for no lynch.

@TS/BL/Dana/DGB/Thor-
I'm realistically the only other player who is suspicious of Zdenek who is not currently voting him. CUT THE CRAP AND VOTE A VIABLE CANDIDATE.

I consider no lynch preferable to a town lynch at this stage and in this game. I am certain enough on Feysal I'm willing to gamble with that belief to try to force a lynch other than him. Asking me to vote for people I consider town "because we need a lynch" defeats the purpose of me getting town reads, of vote count analysis, and basically turns my vote into a policy lynch 'but everyone said so' whine fest. And I am against all three of those.

Nominate: Raivann

[Shadow1psc]

Ugh.

Nominate: Raivann

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Feysal

I don't think TS is scum. Feysal could be running a scum gambit, and has looked real flip-floppy with his logic, as has been noted quite a few times. It's not exactly win/win, but if he's telling the truth and we lose a voyeur, it's not the biggest deal. I left my vote on Thor because there were plenty of votes on Feysal, but now that the deadline is within reach, I've no qualms putting him at L-1 as he's out the door it looks like.

[Nexus]

I have a question for Ben, if he gets here before day ends.

Are you planning on giving us an arbitrary list of lynches tomorrow, or are we allowed to lynch freely?

[LimMePls]

TOWN
Benmage
MagnaOfIllusion
Hasdgfas
Locke Lamora
Magua
Kast
xvart
Setael
Zdenek
DTMaster
Nexus
Shadow1psc
Raivann
Thor665
DrippingGoofball
Danakillsu
Ghostlin
Twilight Sparkle
Bunnylover
Feysal
SCUM

[Feysal]

Feysal's lack of a "these are my final reads, use them when I pass away" post is making me itchy anyway.

I've been pressed for time, to the point that I've been neglecting another game in favor of this one, and with no one listening to me anyway, I've had trouble summoning the energy to put my reads together. But if you want them, here are some.

Bunnylover

Town. And

not

a village idiot. Her thoughts and opinions have been few, but I've liked most of them, and diddin's attacks on her in posts #887 and #938 are a dead giveaway that she is not a Stark. All the more embarrassing for all those currently nominating her. She could be a valuable player if she got over her self esteem problem and stopped being afraid of making mistakes. Those happen, to everyone, they are part of the game. I for one have seen enough of her play to say that calling her a village idiot is not helping her improve, and doing her misjustice to begin with.

Setael

Town. Definite town, as much if not more than Locke. This is the third time I'm saying it, and I want it to be absolutely clear that no one has an excuse for having missed this if they ever

think

of voting her. This is the reason why:

Ok so what about MY statements? LMP is not the only one posting about Feysal.

@LL: I resent you giving full credit for the Feysal case to LMP. I'll let it slide this once. /partial sarcasm

No scum in their right mind will demand recognition and credit for their contributions to a mislynch. Therefore she

must

be town.

Thor

Town... though this read is considerably weaker than the above two. I thought about his defense of me, and given how many people are already suspecting him, putting himself on the line is too brave a move to come from scum. I'm sure he knows that me flipping town would not earn him town credit, but rather people would suspect him only more for supposedly having inside information of my alignment. Therefore he is town.

DrippingGoofball

Who the hell knows. I wrote a case on her in post #1238 about her odd suspects and votes during day one, and about her lurking day two. Since then I've seen more strangeness to add to her case.

#1339 - DGB defends me with meta, but from where? She has never actually seen me lynched.
#1347 - DGB gives me a town read.
#1377 - DGB explains her town read of me with me sounding honest. Okay. She also claims having been told by the mod that both Benmage and DTMaster are town. Err... what?
#1393 -

DGB votes me. Despite having a town read on me. Because, as she says, the wagon on me is "full of wholesome townie goodness". My wagon consists of LynchMePls and Setael, both of them her scum reads until a few posts ago, and Locke, who she called scum until she was confronted with that not making sense. What the hell?

#1465 - DGB calls me town again. Calls attention to it even.
#1466 - DGB unvotes me and votes Zdenek.
#1521 - When I suggest using my power to confirm her claim, DGB claims having been told the result from someone else's action. Backtracking?

So, DGB would have us believe that someone investigated Benmage and DTMaster in one night, and sent both results to her. Right. The only reason I'm not calling her obvious scum is because this is DGB we're talking about, and I have seen her reads change at the drop of a hat as town. But even for her... this is a bit much.

Raivann

I explained my case on him in detail in post #811 on the first day. He could never provide a reasonable explanation for his actions. He voted Song/Thor basically without reason, and then tried to make up a case around his vote. It could not look more fake. Today he has exploited his pass from Benmage to do nothing. He has coasted all day, and when confronted about it his posts have reeked of AtE (#1525, #1592) instead of him actually

doing something

. And of course, he calls me town in post #1546 and votes me in his next post #1592. Blatant sheeping of whereever the wind is blowing.

Why Raivann has been allowed to play like this unfathomable. I consider him obvious scum. I look forward to seeing how Benmage explains his town read on him from post #1349 (contradicting yourself is whimsical town?) and LynchMePls from post #1437 (can't remember Raivann doing anything quite as scummy as Bunnylover? Do you remember

voting him for it?

). Raivann has had his chance. Now he has to die.

More later, maybe.

[Kast]

You asked Dana in his own line if he would switch to Feysal come deadline. You then had a separate list of five players "wasting their votes". I don't think it's a stretch to say that this implies you are not counting dana as one of those players wasting their votes.

This is a load of BS. You just didn't read carefully. It's EXTREMELY and EXPLICITLY clear that the reason Dana is on his own line is because he HAS STATED SUSPICION OF FEYSAL. The rest are in a different line because they had NOT STATED SUSPICION OF FEYSAL. I EXPLICITLY singled YOU out since DESPITE not suspecting Feysal, the only other option is yourself. There's NOTHING ambiguous about any of that in my post. Your objections only make any sense (and not much at that) when you pick and choose bits while ignoring the lines right above and below.

Good voting.

@Thor-
You said you think all three candidates are town. If you seriously intend a no lynch, then why the hell are you voting one of the candidates you think is town?

@MoI-
Good voting.

I have a question for Ben, if he gets here before day ends.

Are you planning on giving us an arbitrary list of lynches tomorrow, or are we allowed to lynch freely?

I get the point of your question but really it's unnecessary. Tomorrow, if BM pulls the same BS that he did today

EVERYONE IGNORE HIM

.

@Feysal-
Goodposting though I disagree with most of your reads.

BL-Strong disagree. She's been worse than Raivann in terms of actively abusing her immunity today. At least Raivann pretends he's trying to help; BL just keeps throwing up the VI shield which is tantamount to admission that she knows her ideas/actions are bad but is doing them anyway.
Setael-You lose credibility when you claim a weak town tell is equivalent or better than a confirmation via third party flip and mod revealed info.
Thor-Your read ignores the very real possibility that we get a no lynch and learn nothing. If that's Thor's aim (which he's CLAIMED) then your argument does not apply.
DGB-If you didn't notice from playing this game or from people mentioning her meta, she's NOT a highly analytical/logical player. She frequently gets by with gut and relational/emotional play. It can be a valuable second opinion. Focusing on her obvious bluffing as if it's true is wasted effort.
Rest assured, Raivann's blatant scumminess isn't being ignored (despite BM's best efforts). He's definitely one of the players who will get attention tomorrow.

@Non-Feysal Voters-
I didn't want to raise this since it should be obvious and included in your thoughts regardless, but have you considered that a town PR

may have

targeted me last night and just doesn't want out himself to counter-claim Feysal since Feysal should be getting lynched anyway?

It's L-1 and we have 11 hours. Someone fix this. I'm actually partially relieved that we haven't seen a hammer jump in; this is an asymmetric situation in which any Feysal scum-buddies are likely torn between finishing him off or pretending they're MIA and hoping the no lynch saves their buddy. Non-Feysal scum have less incentive to keep Feysal alive since it's an easily defensible hammer and as long as Feysal isn't a buddy there's no real need to keep him alive. Townies have no incentive to allow the no-lynch.

[Thor665]

@Thor-
You said you think all three candidates are town. If you seriously intend a no lynch, then why the hell are you voting one of the candidates you think is town?

I've already answered this and never claimed (or backpeddled - better's choice) that I called Zed a town read.
Or you can just keep running with the theory that I have no internal consistency at all in anything I post, I know some people are excitedly sniffing about that but it's all smoke and mirrors.

[Kast]

@Thor-
You are flat out lying.

I have an exceedingly minor town read on Zdenek

You EXPLICITLY admitted a town read on Zdenek and initially claimed (in that same post) that you were willing to lynch Zdenek

BECAUSE

it would be preferable to your stronger town reads.

You later changed/updated/modified (whatever you want to call it) your intention from trying to lynch an alternative to Feysal to simply aiming for a no lynch. This is what I was directly responding to. If that is true, then vote for no lynch.

Again, pay attention, it's not complicated or hard to follow.

[Kast]

@Thor-
Please link to any games where you've similarly taken the position that a no lynch is preferable to a lynch of an unconfirmed player on D2.