Mini 1138 - Candy Zoo Mafia (Game Over!)

[Kalofer]

Kalofer, I assume that since my response post didn't get responded to, that I had an adequate defense? Or did you just miss it?

Adequate? I suppose. I'm still not liking (not in a personal sense) you that much though, mainly for your short posts, constant vote changing and aggressive behaviour, still I guess you are giving excuses for the vote changing and your aggressive behaviour is giving me town vibes. Also you do look like you're scumhunting. But I'm still keeping my eye on you.

Right now I'm kinda lost into thinking who is scum. The posts made against zyrc are good and logical, but I'd like to hear his response before placing a vote. Vezok strikes me as a strange individual, he's giving me null/scum tells. Amrun is giving me a null tell, she's been active but just posting what I see largely as irrelevant things I guess. Still she could just lurk like all the others so I don't know.

start thinkin he's just a VI

:3

not VI, just reckless townie

Don't worry, morth likes calling people idiots/morons

[Twistedspoon]

can I point out that Crazypianist hasn't posted since page 1

I'll request a prod if he doesn't post soon

[Twistedspoon]

Actually, can I add that I'm with Crazypianist in another of my games and he posted yesterday and today in that game.
It just this game he appears to be lurking in.
He's choosing not to post it would appear

Prod crazypianist

and if NS doesn't post again soon I'll request a prod for him too

[Charlie]

Prodding crazypianist1116.

Vote count 3

Zyrconium (4) - Stels, ToastyToast, mb53, Twistedspoon
Twistedspoon (2) - Hoppster, Hazard with a Glove
Kalofer (1) - crazypianist1116
Amrun (1) - Nobody Special
vezokpiraka (1) - Amrun

Not voting: Morthas, Kalofer, vezokpiraka, Zyrconium
With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch.

[Zyrconium]

@Stels: for both of our sakes, could you make a non-RVS vote or a case on me?

Anyway, everybody lynch TS now, it's already taken too long.

Right, because it hasn't even been a day since the game has started.

Unvote: Vote: Zycronium

This might actually be worth my time to explain, it was a somewhat unserious fashion of making sure everyone made their stance on the TS wagon clear, kindof a joke, but for a very specific purpose.

This is about all the defending I think the case deserves, Kalo, if you want more, make a better case.

(if you don't want more, make a better case elsewhere)

[mb53]

Ghaa, slept through our RVS
But glad to know this town is planning on taking it's time, even if scum has decided to make itself known...

if we're going to go into the psycology of smilies then yes, you could say I usually dissaprove of vote switching in RVS . You RVS for pressure - why would you destroy reasonless pressure on one person to push reasonless pressure on another?

1) And why would you NOT?(P.S. direct answer is so that someone else is feeling said "reasonless pressure")

anyone want to go RQS?

2) VOTE: twistedspoon
P-Edit: FUCK, there's more than 1!(or vezok is being a retard again, I'd give it even odds)
Vezok, don't ask retarded things like that.... and if you do, do it in PMs to the mod....

Ok so Zycronium's first vote and he is already attacking Twistedspoon. Since he claims that he slept through RVS, I think its safe to assume that he's voting TP based on his two points here. Point #1 is a matter of opinion. Point #2 is based on...suggesting to ask questions? How is that scummy? Also, his last line to Vezok is teaching. Vezok can ask as many retarded things as he wants if he's scum. He doesn't attack him but suggests that Vezok doesn't do so again.

And I found a way to break the game open.
Do evil people want to know your goodies? Y/N
Just answer and say nothing more. Everyone has to do this.

This is even worse role fishing btw, and it's role fishing that if vezok is town assumes the mafia are all really really retarded..... simple logic could turn this into a massclaim.
I STRONGLY SUGGEST THAT PEOPLE DON'T ANSWER THIS.

So at this point, Zyrconium has continued to go after vezok. Yet, he doesn't vote for him and suggests that it can turn into a massclaim. I'm pretty sure that everyone, scum and town alike, would vote that evil people want to know your goodies.

Anyway, everybody lynch TS now, it's already taken too long.

@ Kalofer: There is nothing that says he is joking. Also, if it were, why didn't he respond when to people voted for him? Contributing any comment to "jokes" is always a bad idea. Just as TP has been saying "oh, i just use WIFOM a lot! ignore it," leaving Zyrconium can say "TEEHEEE I wasn't ACTUALLY trying to quick-lynch!"

Now post 82 is too long to quote, but Zyrconium only says a grand total of 5 phrases! He simply divides up the same Twisted Spoon quote he referenced earlier, playing it off as a brand new point. The whole TP encourages rolefishing thing is BS. TP turns Vezok's rolefishing

towards

him, which is fitting given that he obviously suspects Vezok. As does Zyrconium, who has now completely abandoned the Vezok issue and is instead using Vezok's posts to hurt the now-under-pressure TP.

Then there is the Hoppster buddying issue, which I have ignored but figured it should be mentioned as part of a case on him.

Add, Ad hom to my loist of reasons.

Fair enough, but...

He's refering to MB, reread the sentance, it's kinda subtle, but it's the only logical conclusion.

Whaaa, whaa, you're picking on me for talking too much!

This is AtE... it's suprisingly effective on me, but when I notice it, it pissed me off even more, if you happen to be town TS, you're really really bad at it.....

Add Ad hominem to my list of reasons. And hypocrisy.

Twistedspoon seems town to me >_>

How about offering me the same courtesy you requested and explain how you ended up with a town read on TS?

I can't even find said "courtesy." Nevertheless, you are dodging both mb53 and myself via placing more attention on TS. I don't like how Zyrconium has ignored the two votes on him, whether or not he finds them to be illogical.

I have found significant evidence against TP at this point, but it by no means makes TP our only suspect. He's just going with the most popular lynch, he only briefly talks about VEZOK-scum before turning it against TP, and has otherwise contributed very little.

[Kalofer]

*sigh*

Well I don't think that's all the defending the case deserves, especially after the case has managed to get you to L-2. I'd like to know what you think of MB's accusations of you sheeping. Despite this however I'm just not feeling you as scum.
And since I'm not feeling anyone as scum I might as well vote a lurker for now till something new crops up, but I would vote for you as long as it immediately kills you just as long as we get to see what you are to make sure, but after it still being day one and relatively early considering the short posts, I guess I'll wait a bit for some of the lurkers to come back.
For now VOTE: crazypianist

[mb53]

(Also note that nobody special was posting other places than here last night as well)

Oh and

I suppose. I'm still not liking (not in a personal sense) you that much though, mainly for your short posts, constant vote changing and aggressive behaviour

That is just how I roll =)

[Zyrconium]

@Kalo: L-3, one of which is RVS and one of which is OMGUS(if TS was playing better it'd be worth counting)...

I did accidentally attribute some of the TT stuff to mb, so perhaps that's worth addressing, of course I hate his posts for the exact opposite reason he stated he hates mine(this is terrible misrep, or, exageration for humourous effect in an attempt to make this activity seem less like work, please choose only 1), wall posts with little mini walls among them all.

[Hoppster]

shrug

it says my alignment is town, and that's what matters

Huh. I think I've found a tell of yours.

shrug

how can I scumhunt when I'm defending myself.

Anyways, scum would want me to defend myself; it distracts me from scumhunting.

shrug

i don't have to defend myself 5 pages into the game.
I don't see what your point is

A 'shrug' immediately preceeds a post where you are under-pressure, being attacked, and grasping at straws. I would say it sets out a 'panicky' mindset. Largely what follows a 'shrug' post is a load of nonsense.

What's odd is that all that provokes this 'shrug' post is:

That sounds like a scummy role, tbh.

This somehow makes him revert to the 'shrug' mindset - panicking. This only really makes sense if he were scum - and I think it's very possible that he is scum who, upon being requested for a claim, panicked, and claimed his scum role except town-aligned (which is why he panicks yet again when Amrun points out it makes more sense as a scummy role).

I am strongly inclined to believe that the candy 'taking' mechanic, if it exists (which I believe it probably does), will be scum-aligned.

To be specific, there's no doubt in my mind he's telling the truth about his role, his alignment however is still questionable.

Sums up my thoughts perfectly.

She is a zoo visitor and the flavor in the beginning makes it seem like one of the zoo visitors are the murderers.

Just FYI, I disagree with this reasoning. The 13 suspicious characters refers to all of us, regardless of whether we're zoo visitors or candy animals.

I believe twisted's claim. Multiple reasons. One, is I doubt scum would be able to make up such a role. Two, my gut town read. Three, I re-read the thread, and found that zyr's vote on TS is even more bullshit than I thought it was.

I'm not following you here.


1) Scum might not have to make up such a role. It could genuinely be a scum role.


2) This is very, very dodgy. Firstly, I'm pretty sure this is confirmation bias: "I reckon he's town, so his claim must be true." Perhaps if your town-read was supported by evidence and was reasoned, but a gut read? No. It also contradicts your earlier,

non-gut

stances on him:

Dropping my town read down to a could-go-either-way read (null).

Meh. Less than adequate defense. Keeping you at null.

TS is getting scummier by the post >_>

Pretty much the only thing to come up since then has been Twistedspoon's claim. Why has his claim made you revert to your gut read over your reasoned read?


3) This is not even a reason for believing Twistedspoon's claim.


I want to see how the lurkers react to the Twistedspoon case and other stuff, and I think we need to explore the mb53 avenue. I think it will also help to see how Twistedspoon reacts to it.
UNVOTE:
VOTE: mb53


@ Toasty: Did you really intend to hammer before we'd heard back from everybody?

[ToastyToast]

I believe TS claim. It certainly sounds like a great fake-claim though, so I could be wrong.

Ironically, I agree with Zyrconium in 218
We should definitely keep an eye on him.

@Hoppster: No, I planned to sleep and vote in the morning. That would've given enough time for everyone to say their thoughts. Turns out I was tired and just saw the claim this morning anyway

[Twistedspoon]

you're looking too deeply into my shrugs

I always post shrug, just look at our PMs or some games where I flipped town.
It's a habit and has noting to do with my Role PM which states I'm town and that's what matters at the end of the day to fulfil our win conditions

anyways, I believe that If i take candy It will be useful for me to create a pro-town item which candy animals cannot take themselves. That's my take on my role.

[Amrun]

Hoppster: I re-read OP and agree with you. All 13 are suspicious.

I just re-read my role PM and decided something.

VOTE: twistedspoon

I believe his claim, all right. I believe that it's scum claiming his real role and attaching green text to it.

If twisted flips town, we learn something about the set-up and I learn something about my role PM.

If twisted flips scum, as I believe he will, we probably found a scumbuddy in mb53.

I had planned to make a case on him today and give twisted the benefit of the doubt, but I mis-remembered something about my own role and just realized it.

I'm starting to get a better handle on this game, I think.

[Twistedspoon]

If twisted flips town, we learn something about the set-up and I learn something about my role PM.

so that's appropriate justification for killing a townie?

anyways, I'm only telling the truth

If I was scum I would have claimed a more obvious town role wouldn't i?

[Hoppster]

Thoughts on mb53, Twistedspoon?


ATTENTION RETURNING LURKERS: Please pay extra care if voting Twistedspoon. I don't want him hammered before we've heard from everybody.

Having said that, I am still all for a Twistedspoon lynch when we've heard from everybody.


Preview Edit: Twisted, you might convince us if you stopped defending yourself with WIFOM.

[Twistedspoon]

If I was scum I would have claimed candy animal. I know that's a town role, why take a risk with a zoo visitor claim?

I'm only giving the truth here, I can give no-more

mb53? why not? He's active and fair. Seems more town than scum

[Twistedspoon]

Preview Edit: Twisted, you might convince us if you stopped defending yourself with WIFOM.

because it's the truth and the truth has to make sense

[mb53]

1) Scum might not have to make up such a role. It could genuinely be a scum role.

That is valid. But personally I doubt scum would ever claim their actual role.

2. I said this almost right before his claim.

I'm hating TS. My gut is telling me that he is town, but all of the evidence points scum.

3. Fair enough, maybe I should have just had it not numbered on a separate line.

Is that the only reason you are voting me? Or is there something else that I can defend against?

P-Edit: GRAPPLGOSFNGAJGFKRK NINJAS

[Zyrconium]

@TS: No. you would have claimed this role and if needed used WIFOM to defend it, JUST LIKE YOU ARE.... can you please stop playing the optimal strategy for scum(badly)?

TS still isn't todays lynch his role is too confirmable and if he hasn't lied about it it's really quite townie(or 3rd party actually, but if it's 3rd party in a particularly evil fashion(again this involves him lieing), it will become obvious.

[Twistedspoon]

VOTE: Amrun

post 237 really hits a bad chord with me

[Amrun]

Of course I hope not to kill a townie, twisted.

But if you are a townie, then my role PM can't be trusted in its wording.

The wording is strong enough that I will push your lynch until you are dead or I am proven wrong.

P-edit: A bad chord called OMGUS.

[Twistedspoon]

you really shouldn't have called it OMGUS. I hate it when people say that. I always find true justification for my votes and consider them from other people's perspectives. Anyways, here we go:

If twisted flips town, we learn something about the set-up and I learn something about my role PM.

If you're scum you know I'll flip town, and this is your justification for when this happens. That way you can keep your hands clean

If twisted flips scum, as I believe he will, we probably found a scumbuddy in mb53.

Hoppster: I re-read OP and agree with you. All 13 are suspicious.

Yeah, I can't speak for mb53, but whatever he's done for me you've done for hoppster.

Question to town: Has no-one else seen a hoppster-Amrun link? Answer this

I had planned to make a case on him today and give twisted the benefit of the doubt, but I mis-remembered something about my own role and just realized it.

Another excuse for you to keep your hands clean when I flip town.

More Amrun votes please

[mb53]

Question to town: Has no-one else seen a hoppster-Amrun link? Answer this

Eh, kind of, not really though. More of a Hoppster zyr link (even though I have opposite reads on them xD).

Amrun has a town read from me. I dunno whether its gut or what, but I don't really seem him as scum. As twisted would put it:

shrug

[Twistedspoon]

Amrun has a town read from me. I dunno whether its gut or what,

probably gut

[Twistedspoon]

sry, ignore the probably