Open 291 Frenenemies (+ other guy) - Game over: Wolves win!

[ThAdmiral]

mod: when's deadline?

None yet

[LlamaFluff]

unvote
Vote Krazy

Because wagon, the case Crazy has on him, and the RQS fluff.

This game needs to go in some direction people.

[Krazy]

So park was very obviously scum.

unvote
Vote Krazy

I love it.

[LlamaFluff]

Wagon on park isnt going anywhere, game is stalled and with everyone avoiding posting, it needs a kick. Wagon on a good second suspect is just the way to go about it. If you want to wagon park I will meet you there, but at this point all I know is that you seem really attached to the wizrak wagon which I think is on town.

What is your case? All of what you have said in the last few days can be boiled down to "snark snarky snark". Why is wiz scum? Why is anyone else scum, there are four (or two from your stance)? What do you think of what I said on park? Do you think scum or town is voting you? Want me to humor you by laying out the entire case on you which has mostly been layed out and ignored/poorly responded to?

[Krazy]

Are you asking me to pursue a case on a player that has been replaced?

I'm waiting until

Hey catching up in everything tonight.

actually happens.

[LlamaFluff]

Yes that is exactly what I am asking. Why WAS wiz scummy?

[Krazy]

Krazy, your last post sucks. Explain yourself, please.

Yeah sorry; as in: chk votes me after there is already at least one vote on me, no explanation no questions no commentary, then votes chk after there is already a vote, almost no commentary or questions still. No pressure behind the random votes, no useful information being drawn = putting in the motions of RVS without actually using it productively. Two random votes on players that have already been randomly voted... just isn't that random.

Do you like repeating conversations? Are you under the impression that if you ask people to do something that they did 4 pages ago that you will give the impression of being active?

[LlamaFluff]

That sounds like a case on chk though and not wiz.

Also repeating conversation can be very useful when a large amount of replacements join the game. The hardest part of being a reaplcement is having to read a lot of things out of context since its not actually happening as you read the game. Imagine reading a book about a WWII European theater and watching maps of what occured, which do you think you are going to get a better idea of what happened from?

[Krazy]

Fair enough.

Bear in mind, however, that the problem with the game is that there are too many lurkers + replacements that haven't caught up yet.

You just said that you found a player obviously scummy, but decided to vote a different player simply because that player actually responds sometimes.

At what point in this conversation are lurkers actually supposed to join? You just threw up a big flag saying, "hey guys, don't worry about lurking, we will just get busy trying to lynch any player that actually is alive."

[LlamaFluff]

At what point in this conversation are lurkers actually supposed to join? You just threw up a big flag saying, "hey guys, don't worry about lurking, we will just get busy trying to lynch any player that actually is alive."

Lurkers get replaced, or wagoned into posting/replacing if the problem persists. Either that or you throw a hissy fit if you are confident enough in a read. I would be fine with park being the recipiant of a bullet right now, but when all the active people are not biting, im happy pushing an alternate wagon, especially when its backed by all townish reads.

Again though, do you like a park wagon?

[Krazy]

Right now I like a Zordiark wagon more than a park wagon, but I'm willing for the moment to give him the benefit of the doubt that he actually will catch up some time before I die of old age.

[LlamaFluff]

Right now I like a Zordiark wagon more than a park wagon, but I'm willing for the moment to give him the benefit of the doubt that he actually will catch up some time before I die of old age.

*scribbles* not scum with zodiark who replaced park *scribbles*

OK then!

Do you think that slot is scum?

[Krazy]

Well, based on a detailed review of park's iso, I can quite certainly say that I have a complete null read on that slot. It seemed like park was moving in a townish direction, but really what would have made me feel one way or another would have been park's interaction with wizrak after the wagon had gained some steam. Which never happened, and never will, so at this point I pretty much just want to see what the replacement does.

[Glass]

Right now I like a Zordiark wagon more than a park wagon, but I'm willing for the moment to give him the benefit of the doubt that he actually will catch up some time before I die of old age.

Same person lol.

Are you asking me to pursue a case on a player that has been replaced?

I think it is foolish to simply ignore what a replaced person has done.

Yes that is exactly what I am asking. Why WAS wiz scummy?

Well besides her totally trying to appeal to town in ISO 6 and 7 she votes and unvotes without any reason given, and fails to do anything in terms of scumhunting. As my first IC once said:

Lack of scumhunting and illogical voting practices equate to scum.

@Llama
I prefer would prefer a krazy or wizrak lynch to a zordiark lynch because I have a semi-town read on park. At least he was trying to scumhunt (unlike some people).

[Crazy]

I kind of don't want to make this comment in fear that it might derail the Krazy wagon, but this just "strikes me" as "odd."

Glass, why did you go from defending Krazy from my case in Post #148 right into voting him in Post #150? Is Krazy's one comment of "Why can't it be all of the above?" the only reason you're on this wagon?

[Glass]

Not so much defending krazy as explaining why I did not like your argument, as looking for people who are lynching using fallacious reasoning is a good way to find scum. But krazy was complaining that he can't scumhunt when so many people are inactive and when there are posts to dissect and look through he does not even read them. (either that or that was an incredibly lawlful scumslip).

Why wait until now to bring this point up?

[Krazy]

Right now I like a Zordiark wagon more than a park wagon, but I'm willing for the moment to give him the benefit of the doubt that he actually will catch up some time before I die of old age.

Same person lol.

You both failed to get the joke completely... My point being that Park was actively doing stuff, and Zordiark made a "yeah I will catch up sometime" post and then didn't. It's now been two days I think since he said he was going to catch up.

Are you asking me to pursue a case on a player that has been replaced?

I think it is foolish to simply ignore what a replaced person has done.

Did I say I was going to ignore it? No. That slot will still be slightly more suspicious to me than other slots for a while. And you'll notice my vote is still on that slot. Wizrak was either a terrible player or total scum, and either way I am happy with my vote there. Until the replacement shows me that they are neither of those things, my vote will stay there.

You know, keeping the pressure on the slot that seemed suspicious, rather than jumping ship to a player that actually bothers to participate in the game.

As for you, Glass, why would that be a scumslip? You seemed to be thinking that if I was trolling then I couldn't also be guilty. I didn't want to see you wrongfully give me a clear just because I was trolling. Setting up explanations for why they give town reads to town is a very skilled scum play, and your jump on to my wagon after it was a nice deflection of what was strictly speaking a false dilemma (god I hate calling things fallacies, but that is what it was).

[Glass]

Glass, why would that be a scumslip?

Because you insinuated that it was all three.

You seemed to be thinking that if I was trolling then I couldn't also be guilty.

....no I didnt?

Setting up explanations for why they give town reads to town is a very skilled scum play, and your jump on to my wagon after it was a nice deflection of what was strictly speaking a false dilemma

English please?

[Crazy]

Ooh, and the plot thickens!

FoS Glass

; I'll say why later, but right now I don't want to interfere in this Krazy vs. Glass debate until we get more information out of it.

[Krazy]

Glass, why would that be a scumslip?

Because you insinuated that it was all three.

So there are 3 possibilities. The first is that he gets emotionally involved in the game and that influences his decisions (granted, this happens for everyone, but I mean more so than the average joe). The second is that he is open to policy-lynches, he sees wizrak as being a hindrance to town even if he is town. The third is that he was being an opportunistic scum trying to lynch wizrak for being thin-skinned.

^These seem mutually exclusive.

Why can't it be all of the above?

^Does not imply that all three are actually true, instead wondering why you seem to suggest it is only one of the above.

Or, actually, even, none of the above. Why can't I simply be applying pressure on an under-performing player to see how that player reacts when in the crosshairs and how the wagon-forming members pursue the case?

Setting up explanations for why they give town reads to town is a very skilled scum play, and your jump on to my wagon after it was a nice deflection of what was strictly speaking a false dilemma

English please?

The first is that he gets emotionally involved in the game and that influences his decisions (granted, this happens for everyone, but I mean more so than the average joe). The second is that he is open to policy-lynches, he sees wizrak as being a hindrance to town even if he is town. The third is that he was being an opportunistic scum trying to lynch wizrak for being thin-skinned.

It seemed like no matter which option you chose above, you were going to be positioning yourself somehow:

If you opted for possibility one, then I am, if not trolling, then 'emotionally involved.' This is your null-read that leaves open the most possibilities, but can in any situation be used to attack my ethos or credibility should I turn my crosshairs toward you.

If you opted for the second possibility, then you could use that as a "mostly town" read, which you could use to explain a town-read of me to help you "buddy" me.

If you opted for the third possibility, you could begin making a case against me.
It seemed like the most profitable for you at this point in the game probably would have been possibility two, which is why I raised the possibility that it might be more than one: why can't I be both two and three; opportunistically lynching the player that I can say that, even though they might be town, were still being a hindrance? I mostly just didn't like how you were setting up possibility three as a stand-alone possibility. Perhaps you could claim possibility two today, but then after wizrak flips or later down the line, begin a "but maybe I was mistaken... maybe it was possibility three all along!"

@Crazy, I'm glad you're amused, but try to avoid too many posts where you say "I have thoughts but I'm going to save them until I see how the current conversation plays out" as that is literally the definition of active lurking.

[Glass]

Why can't I simply be applying pressure on an under-performing player to see how that player reacts when in the crosshairs and how the wagon-forming members pursue the case?

I did not consider that possibility since when you jumped on the wagon you did not see her as an under-performer.

I'M JOINING THE WAGON BECAUSE WIZRAK IS A WAGONER

Why can't it be all of the above?

Odd that you forgot the smiley face, as this changes the context entirely. A serious question is not attached to a smiley face. This makes the question rhetorical as if saying that it is all of the above.

It seemed like no matter which option you chose above, you were going to be positioning yourself somehow:

If you opted for possibility one, then I am, if not trolling, then 'emotionally involved.' This is your null-read that leaves open the most possibilities, but can in any situation be used to attack my ethos or credibility should I turn my crosshairs toward you.

you had no problem with this post of mine until I attacked you.

If you opted for the second possibility, then you could use that as a "mostly town" read, which you could use to explain a town-read of me to help you "buddy" me.

Having a town read does not equate to buddying. Glass is trying to develop reads on people, what an inane concept!

If you opted for the third possibility, you could begin making a case against me.
It seemed like the most profitable for you at this point in the game probably would have been possibility two, which is why I raised the possibility that it might be more than one: why can't I be both two and three; opportunistically lynching the player that I can say that, even though they might be town, were still being a hindrance? I mostly just didn't like how you were setting up possibility three as a stand-alone possibility. Perhaps you could claim possibility two today, but then after wizrak flips or later down the line, begin a "but maybe I was mistaken... maybe it was possibility three all along!"

If I was really trying to keep all these options open why would I attack you after your post? If I was scum I easily could have brushed it off being like: "Well, ya. That's a possibility too. Thought that that went without saying."

*My text is bold*
To summarize: this entire thing is a big mountain of "If glass is scum.. blah blah blah". Not impressed, I could do that with anybody.
Ex: If the queen was a guy she would have balls.

[Glass]

FoS Glass

You are voting for krazy though...
What's up?

[LlamaFluff]

unvote
Vote Zodiark

Not really feeling Krazy-scum as much after this last page.

[Krazy]

I did not consider that possibility since when you jumped on the wagon you did not see her as an under-performer.

I'M JOINING THE WAGON BECAUSE WIZRAK IS A WAGONER

Well I opted for the more ironic tone in my initial vote to see reaction, but I explained the main reasons in response to Crazy a few posts below.

Odd that you forgot the smiley face, as this changes the context entirely. A serious question is not attached to a smiley face. This makes the question rhetorical as if saying that it is all of the above.

But if it's not serious, why would you take my "scumslip" seriously?

you had no problem with this post of mine until I attacked you.

I wasn't sure if your vote was being serious or not, I actually thought at the time you were just continuing on the joke.

Having a town read does not equate to buddying. Glass is trying to develop reads on people, what an inane concept!

True, and another reason that my vote isn't on you at the moment. Again, all of the above could easily have town motivations as well.

If I was really trying to keep all these options open why would I attack you after your post? If I was scum I easily could have brushed it off being like: "Well, ya. That's a possibility too. Thought that that went without saying."

Well it wasn't a very serious attack, as I said earlier, it seemed like you were just kidding at first.

[Krazy]

Uhhhh.... quotes fail. My responses are inside the quoted text.