Metropolis: Revisited [Game Over]

[Magua]

/confirm

Gotta be me.

[Magua]

Is it too early to call Nachomamma town?

Just curious.

[Magua]

This makes it so that you can only put one player above the 60% threshold, but you can roleblock two people per day effectively if you don't want to kill either of them (well, really, you can kill one and roleblock the other in some cases, but only on days when the percentages line up exactly. This was on purpose). Doing it this way shouldn't really affect endgame, because 4/6, 3/5, 3/4, 2/3 will all still come out to greater than 60%. The 60% being different than the 50% majority only affects down to 7 players, where four players only constitute a 57% majority, which will not be enough. After that, however, the "lynch threshold" for this game will be for all practical intents and purposes no different than a 50% majority. Again, this was on purpose.

Someone should translate this bit and put forward an action plan.

It doesn't work like RC says -- you cannot roleblock and lynch someone, because it requires *greater* than 40% to roleblock and *greater* than 60% to lynch.

You've got 24 players, so 24 strikes D1. 40% of 24 is 9.6 => 10, 60% is 14.4 => 15. So 15 strikes will lynch someone, 10 will roleblock them. So D1, we can either lynch one person, or roleblock two.

If RC changes it to be greater than or equal, then on days where the # of living players is divisible by 5, we can lynch *and* roleblock. But, D1 will not be one of those days regardless.

[Magua]

So, spreading the /strike's around will screw us. At best, we end up only being able to lynch from one of a very small group of people, and at worst we don't end up being able to lynch at all.

I'm going to propose that we pseudo-vote this, using

Vote: Blah

as normal instead of strike -- that way RC won't count it. If he'd be a gent, he can keep a pseudo vote count, but if not, I'll volunteer to do it.

[Magua]

Because I'm also of the opinion that going for a breaking strategy is just bad sportsmanship and an unenjoyable game. I just PM the mod instead of bringing it up in thread.

[Magua]

Now the question that begs to be asked: on which days can we roleblock and lynch?

As I said in my previous posts: Days where the number of living players is evenly divisible by 5.

Eg, 20 players: 40% to roleblock => 8, 60% to lynch => 12, can both lynch and roleblock.

[Magua]

UT, please elaborate on the scumslip you see in DGB's #55. I don't like either Kublai Khan's or curiouskarmadog's reactions to it as well. Oddly enough, fine with ThAdmiral's reaction.

In the meantime: VOTE: Untrod Tripod

[Magua]

Pseudo-Vote Count 1.1

With 24 players alive, it will take 15 strikes to lynch someone.

Wraith (3): Albert B. Rampage, Friend, MagnaofIllusion
DrippingGoofball (2): ThAdmiral, Untrod Tripod
Kublai Khan (1): AGar
ThAdmiral (1): Exe
Untrod Tripod (1): Magua

Not voting (16): Everyone else

[Magua]

Tempted to strike Toogeloo for that strike. I'm of the thought that we should thoroughly discuss strikes before placing them, almost as if it were lylo-ish

This is scum going for the easy points: "I disagree so much with what Toogeloo did that I'm pondering doing it to him, too." Note also that it's unaccompanied by a vote.

UNVOTE: Untrod Tripod
VOTE: Hrezs

[Magua]

RC PM'ed me and said he's not going to do the vote counts, so I started with my own pseudovote count.

I'm putting Toogeloo down as a Magna vote and ignoring any voting he does today.

Pseudo-Vote Count 1.2

With 24 players alive, it will take 15 strikes to lynch someone.

Wraith (4): Albert B. Rampage, Friend, MagnaofIllusion, LadyLambdaDelta
DrippingGoofball (2): ThAdmiral, Untrod Tripod
Kublai Khan (1): AGar
ThAdmiral (1): Exe
MagnaofIllusion (1): Toogeloo**
Toogeloo (1): KageLord
Hrezs (1): Magua

** = placed a strike

Not voting (13): Everyone else

[Magua]

You know, there's *no* reason to play hypothetical what-if games about Toogeloo's strike when you can do this:

@Mod:

Does Toogeloo's strike for Magna count or not?

Secondly, only KageLord is actually *voting* Toogeloo, so I'm not sure where AGar's rage is coming from. Everyone else is like, "Bad scum or town play, Toogeloo" which I agree with.

UT, please elaborate on the scumslip you see in DGB's #55. I don't like either Kublai Khan's or curiouskarmadog's reactions to it as well. Oddly enough, fine with ThAdmiral's reaction.

Good job settling in on some nice confirmation biases for the rest of the game.

I'm glad you enjoyed it. Please, tell me which part you liked more: the part where I questioned something I found scummy, or the part where I gave my reactions to other people's posts.

Also, I'm quite serious on this Hrezs wagon. Starts with "Tempted to strike Toogeloo for that strike", ends with "I believe that we should find some sort of consensus before placing strikes." These two thoughts, they are not connected, since if he actually believed the second, he wouldn't've said the first.

[Magua]

Pseudo-Vote Count 1.3

With 24 players alive, it will take 15 strikes to lynch someone.

Wraith (3): Albert B. Rampage, MagnaofIllusion, LadyLambdaDelta
Hrezs (3): Magua, Plum, Exe
DrippingGoofball (2): ThAdmiral, Untrod Tripod
MagnaofIllusion (1): Toogeloo**
Toogeloo (1): KageLord
KageLord (1): Friend
BunnyLover (1): Kublai Khan
ThAdmiral (1): AGar

** = placed a strike

Not voting(11): Kise, DrippingGoofball, ObliviousDruidMuncher, Nachomamma8, Hrezs, curiouskarmadog, AlmasterGM (V/LA 15-20 March), Baby Spice, Bunnylover, GummyBear, Wraith

[Magua]

We also don't like the people who've parrotted what's already been said

(we'll go back and look later). Looks like fluff to gain townpoints.

Also, Toog...is an idiot,

but that's been hashed and rehashed already.

Bolded for lulz.

Anyways, Hresz lynch is good.

Two questions for you, Hresz:

1) Why are you defending ThAdmiral against AGar?

2) Is MagnaofIllusion scummy or not?

[Magua]

Wraith's code will not compile. Not even close. I'm just sayin'.

Thanks to ABR for taking over the vote counts.

Hrezs remains scum.

Exe and Hrezs are not on the same team. Exe and Friend are also not on the same team.

DGB is more reserved than normal for her, which is setting off warning bells.

Bunnylover's play so far is the towniest of all the Bunnylover games I've seen; seriously. Putting BunnyLover into the null-to-town category.

I don't trust ABR, MagnaofIllusion, or LLD's play so far, but I like the force that they're bringing to the game. Also I like the fact that they're voting for Hrezs.

Everyone else just hasn't made enough of an impression on me yet.

[Magua]

You don't trust me sir?

No, but your reading comprehension skills remain top-notch.

LLD I know less about; I've only played Multiple Personality Mafia with her, and that was a complete and utter trainwreck for the scum (which I replaced in as), so I'm still forming up a read.

[Magua]

Look: Is there anyone who's *against* lynching Hrezs? Anyone who does not think this is a good lynch?

(Aside from Hrezs. Yes, yes, I see what you did thar.)

[Magua]

Hrezs: Claim.

[Magua]

What happens if the claim is accurate, yet they are a Inner Circle member?

If he claims VT, I'm going to strike him. If he claims a PR, I won't. If he claims a PR and is somehow still alive two days later, then I'll come back and reconsider this. Until then, saying "omg anyone can be Inner Circle" gets summarily ignored.

Man, oh, man. I hold off on striking Hrezs to get a claim out of him, get told by ABR that he shouldn't claim until everyone's posted content...THAT SAME PAGE Nacho comes in and strikes DGB and...nothing? Huge ol' wagon out of nowhere?

Blergh.

DGB self-strikes. Double-blergh.

I find ABR's and Nachomamma's strikes on DGB incredibly scummy, but they at least took some brass balls. Kublai Khan and StrangerCoug's strikes on DGB are also incredibly scummy, but without any of the redeeming factors. AlmasterGM bothers to have a reason. Most other people don't. This makes baby Magua sad.

And now she's at 10. That's past the point of no return. Sigh.

I'm thinking that DGB is town, and being very clever.

What....in the bloody hell....?

This should've been me striking Hrezs. But it's now:

/strike DrippingGoofball

[Magua]

And now she's at 10. That's past the point of no return. Sigh.

Really? I think it's like, 13 or something.

10 strikes is the point where we can't lynch anyone else (need 15 to lynch, only have

14

13 other strikes available because of Toogeloo's strike)

So,

@ABR

, what changed between #354:

Don't claim. Wait for everyone to have posted content.

And #366, 12 posts and 8 hours later, that did not have anyone new posting content in the meantime?

To those who followed ABR's strike: Why the hell are you striking someone before getting a claim? Well, except for the fact that half of you are scum. But I mean, why

else

?

[Magua]

So what? The way the Inner Circle appears to work, if you looked at the demo Reaper Pmed pre-game, is that the Town Inner Circle member could be any Town role (Vanilla or Not). So locking them into a claim does nothing to root them out. At best it diverts the Inner Circle BP vest to that player if they have a good Town role.

Disagree. You run someone up on a lynch. You get their claim.

1) If their claim is VT, you lynch them.
2) If their claim is a PR and they are cc'ed, you lynch them.
3) If their claim is uncc'ed PR, you let them live. Depending upon the claim, you've got up to 4 killing factions interested in killing that person. If they're an IC PR, you've got an IC on each scumteam who's interested in keeping them alive, but that should be noticeable by the other members of the scumteam -- otherwise, there's a high chance that someone will NK them. If they live through a night or two, then it can be revisited.

Whipping out "OMG any claim can be an Inner Circle" is pointless and only done to increase paranoia.

[Magua]

1 down!

[Magua]

Hrezs, you claim now like you should've yesterday.

I think ABR is expendable scum, probably the goon for one of the two gangs. Definitely not an Inner Circle member.

I have *no* idea about Nachomamma since I see neither town nor scum motivation for him to just bandwagon a strike like that when he hadn't expressed any suspicion of DGB prior. It's just so completely scummy that I'd call it town on a less experienced player, but it's so stupid that I can't imagine a town doing it. Yet, I have to believe that scum would be more careful. Also not an Inner Circle member.

After DGB's self strike, the motivations become muddled. That's Kublai Khan, StrangerCoug, Plum, Bunnylover, camn, Friend, Hrezs. I break them down as so, going by the posts that went along with the strikes:
Kublai Khan: I've reconsidered, and I've flipflopped. I think Kublai Khan is town. I know that I disagree with DGB and quite a few of you in this, but of all the people in the first ten strikes on DGB, he comes off as the towniest.
StrangerCoug: Entirely scummy. #389 has scum written all over it.
Plum is slightly scummy.
BunnyLover is slightly townie. She's called on laying groundwork for the strike, but that's so unnecessarily needed. Further, she at least tries to go and do something with the DGB lynch info, whereas most everyone else is, "DGB, you played bad, sorry" and little else.
camn is neutral and annoyingly hard for me to read.
Friend is scummy.
Hrezs just continues to be outright scum.

After that, she was at 10 strikes, so it was either vote her or no lynch for the day. Those votes (KageLord, Exe, Magua, MagnaofIllusion) are null.

I disagree that stopping at the roleblock point and then roleblocking someone else too (that is, no lynching) is a good move. Toogeloo, camn, and ThAdmiral voiced support for this, and it unnerves me.

I'm all on board for lynching Hrezs, StrangerCoug, ABR, ideally in that order.
VOTE: Hrezs

[Magua]

camn is neutral and annoyingly hard for me to read.

I disagree that stopping at the roleblock point and then roleblocking someone else too (that is, no lynching) is a good move. Toogeloo, camn, and ThAdmiral voiced support for this, and it unnerves me.

I missed this until I read camn's response and went and looked back. camn moves to scum:

#350

2) I am ok with lynching the following at this point, based on gut/policy almost entirely.. but I think we can do better. We have 3 weeks, right?:
UNTROD, BABY SPICE, OBVDRUID, KAGELORD, HZRES, LAMBADELTA, KARMADOG

1) Note the "we have 3 weeks, right"
2) Note the lack of DGB.
This was Saturday, 8:24pm.

#409

Well.. let the carnage ensue, then.
I hope we can be confirmed mason-partners soon? That would be awesome.

/strike: DrippingGoofBall

This was *less than 24 hours later*, Sunday, 7:52pm. Camn is strike #8 on the wagon.

Finally, #466

I slightly agree with tooogloo.
Looking back, a lot if night action analysis can get done if we have a lot of people openly rileblocked on certain nights.
PLUS I don't think we are going to LACK for carnage these first few nights.... So why not?

Rampage? What say you? I say we block two people tonight.
At this point I am relatively convinced DGB is town... So we would be wasting a roleblock by killing her. Let's block MOI or someone instead, and let the scum kill townies for once!

I really think it will get us more info in the end.

Less than 6 hours later, Monday, 1:09am: "Guys, we should roleblock, not lynch." Huge about face when the only other information change is that the wagon she had just joined got joined by other people.

P-edit: I see this:

Also, magua... I can explain why 2 blocks was/is good if you want... As soon as I get to a real keyboard.

If it's good, why did you not say it was good before you laid your strike on DGB, instead of "Well.. let the carnage ensue, then."?

[Magua]

Magua's Unofficial Vote Count 2.1

KageLord (4): ThAdmiral, Kublai Khan, AlmasterGM, Exe
Hrezs (3): Magua, camn, MagnaofIllusion
Friend (3): Lady LambdaDelta, StrangerCoug, Albert B. Rampage
Kublai Khan (2): Baby Spice, Nachomamma8
Exe (2): curiouskarmadog, Friend
Nachomamma8 (1): Bunnylover
Albert B. Rampage (1): KageLord

Not voting (5): Kise, Kast, Toogeloo, Hrezs, Plum

[Magua]

Agree. But why do you consider [Albert B. Rampage] not to be an Inner Circle member?

Inner Circle members have to survive. Pushing the lynch -- especially striking first like ABR did -- puts a big target on your back, no matter how you slice it, that is antithetical to survival.

I am a (the?) security officer. Wiki says there are multiple but when running the simulation I would only see one at times.

The simulation doesn't show *any* number of security officers. Says at the bottom "an unspecified number."

So I'm

very

curious about your remark that you would "see one at times".

Hey mag: you just summed up my first 30 hours playing this game.
Are you saying it is odd that my position evolved during that time?

I am saying that it is odd that your position evolves from "we have plenty of time" to "Let's go ahead and lynch DGB" to "We should really no lynch" in the space of 30 hours. That's not even touching on the irrevocable nature of the strikes -- I'd find your behavior odd even if it was just normal votes. You don't go with any "Guys, why are we striking" or "Guys, we should lynch one of my scumreads", you're just all "bandwagon ahoy!".

So what are you gonna do about Hrezs now?

Depends on his answer to my question up above.

[Magua]

Hrezs' "lol I confused security guard with mixmaster" has that tinge of just-so-scummy-it-has-to-be-true. "Limited use" part of his claim seems legit, the sort of thing that's not easily made up, or if it were made up, I'd expect a real security guard to start pushing, which I'm not seeing.

Camn: Our chance of blocking a nightkiller at this point is 2/21. After three days of following a doubleblock plan, *best case scenario*, we have lost 6 people and cleared 6 other people (again, best case) of being the gang leader. Hooray, we know that the gang leaders are 2 out of 9 people, and we have *nothing else* for the other *6* gang members.

What we do is what you do in any other mafia game: we scumhunt, we look at interactions, and we compare past behavior with what we know from present flips. This game is *not* in any way different from other mafia games. It's no different than a mafia game with a usurper, no different than White Flag mafia. Stop pretending like it's not.

Friend/Kage: I can't even be bothered to try to untangle this, but I'll tell you what I

don't

like:

@ everyone: kagelord or friend - pick a side.

False dichotomy right there. But, on the other hand, if ThAdmiral is scum, KageLord and Friend are not buddies of his.

ABR waits almost two hours between "Hai guyz let's strike someone" and actually doing it. I admire his willpower.

That said, I disagree with his strike. ThAdmiral and camn are much better targets.

Since we've got 21 people, we can (once the DSK kills) lynch and roleblock. I think Toogeloo is right about the DSK not going to kill until the lynch is irreversible.

Obviously, Kublai Khan is now going to be either killed or roleblocked. I'm going to make sure that ThAdmiral is the other.

/strike: ThAdmiral

PEdit: FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU ThAdmiral

[Magua]

Obviously, Kublai Khan is now going to be either killed or roleblocked. I'm going to make sure that ThAdmiral is the other.

/strike: ThAdmiral

PEdit: FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU ThAdmiral

You also intended to rush a strike.. your townread of KK is a good excuse via mindset to explain as much, but this strike-rush is senseless when there's no guarantee a wagon has 12 supporters.

I did, yes, because once there's two wagons, we give up a lot by starting a third, and I wanted to ensure that one of the wagons was on someone I actually had a scumread on.

Striking ThAd, really?

Yes really.

Why on God’s Green Earth would you leave that strike in the post when there is even the slightest chance that Reaper will ignore the strike-through and count it as a valid strike?

If he does it assures we have NO shot at the possible Kill / Block combo

It was stupid of me to leave it in like that, but I was pissed. It's not much of a reason to have done it, but there you go.

Toogeloo strikes ThAdmiral. Now we can't kill/roleblock, which is sad...but...puts more pressure on everyone who hasn't struck yet to at least justify their strike. Which is good. With 7 strikes down, we've got 14 left, so we can still lynch anyone if it's near unanimous.

All of that said, I *really* want to lynch ThAdmiral.

UNVOTE: Hrezs
VOTE: ThAdmiral

[Magua]

There's 21 players still alive. Based on RC's clarification (strike % ONLY checks # of living players and ignores ALL ELSE)

we can STILL block and strike.

However, we can ONLY do that if Kage and KK are the targets.

Kast's plan will work, but only if we lynch one of Kublai Khan/KageLord and roleblock the other.

IMO, that's not worth it when we could instead simply lynch ThAdmiral. I have a slight townread on Kublai Khan, and I have a nullread on KageLord, but I have a scumread on ThAdmiral, and I'd rather lynch ThAdmiral than lynch KageLord + roleblock Kublai Khan (lynching KK and roleblocking Kage comes last).

[Magua]

I'm not willing to lynch KK today, however between ThAdmiral and KageLord I have no preference. I worry that if we decide on ThAd that scum will refuse to lynch him and strike either KK or Kage

Good. Let them out themselves.

[Magua]

TO THOSE WHO HAVE NOT STRUCK YET:

Are you against lynching ThAdmiral?

If so, why?

[Magua]

My name is Magua, and I approve this wagon.

Strike: ThAdmiral

[Magua]

meh.

UNVOTE:
VOTE FRIEND

Your vote means absolutely nothing after you've struck.

I don't feel like doing this right his second, but I think that if we go back and analyze the timing on which strikes were placed where (e.g., who started the gas on the whole triple-wagon shenanigans and then shoved us onto ThAd), we can zero in on scumz (aka KageLord and/or LLDs buddies).

This theory (shoving onto ThAdmiral is done by mafia) only works if both KageLord and Kublai Khan are partners (which I don't think is true).

[Magua]

Honestly, I'm more up for Admiral than wither of the K's.

Has this changed?

[Magua]

I agree with ABR on one thing: It's too much of a coincidence for each of the gang leaders to have shot eachother. The Inner Circle *very* much wants to be able to control the nightkills of the gangs.

@The scum:

I believe that the IC would not be so ballsy as to say, "AlmasterGM, shoot curiouskarmadog" while simultaenously saying "curiouskarmadog, shoot AlmasterGM." But I *do* believe that one of AlmasterGM/curiouskarmadog had the idea to shoot the other all-on-their-own, and the IC, realizing what this means, had someone in the *other* gang heavily suggest/push the other gang leader. So please, scum, go back and look at your nighttalk. If AlmasterGM or curiouskarmadog set out and said, "I'm shooting Other Guy," by all means, ignore this. But if someone *else* in your gang brought it up, especially if it was brought up more than 24 hours into the night...well, then, I believe you're looking at an Inner Circle member. And they don't win with you. And you should bus the everloving shit out of them.

I don't think that Hrezs is scum, given the claim yesterday. To be scum, he'd either be the best scum evar or the worst scum evar, and I don't think he's either.

I like AGar as curiouskarmadog's scummate.

vote: AGar

And what, pray tell, made you think this? I'm curious.

Camn is my preferred lynch today: VOTE: Camn

[Magua]

I'm also gonna strike now...

Strike: Prince Albert B. Rampage in a Can

Alright FUCK you.

Strike: Toogeloo

THIS ENDS TONIGHT BITCH.

[Magua]

MoI, Toog, ABR. Pretty bloody obvious IC bussing going on.

strike Toog

Would rather MoI but will accept Toog.

If the IC bus, they lose. Try again.

You know what? Screw it. This game has made me too made. I'll post something real tomorrow.

[Magua]

Lynch Preference Count (not including strikes already placed):

ABR: 3
MoI: 1
Toog: 4
BS: 3

Blargh.

Want camn lynch. Really want camn lynch.

Out of those above, I like the Toog lynch least. Gambit, gambit, yeah, but IMO, scum simply do not draw such untold attention to themselves at the start of the day at the start of the game. It's stupid play, but it at least feels real to me.

Beyond that, I think ABR is scum. While I think he's one of the expendable goon-scum, at least he's still scum.

BabySpice I still feel is more town than null.

So:

ABR: Yes
MoI: Yes
Toog: No
BS: No
Camn: Yes, yes, a hundred times yes

[Magua]

In town levels, Toogeloo is above Baby Spice.

I'm really striking camn, but

Strike: Baby Spice

[Magua]

No one else strike yet.

@Mod:

1. Would the Inner Circle member flip as the Inner Circle?
2. Would we get any notifications of an Inner Circle death?

If it's confirmable that Magna was not the Inner Circle member of the Night Riders, then Baby Spice can still tell us who is.

[Magua]

Let's see... my mod notes tell me not to answer any questions about the Inner Circle... so...

I couldn't say.

@Mod:

Not to be a pest, I just want to be as clear on this as possible:

1. You will not confirm whether or not MagnaofIllusion was the Inner Circle member?

[Magua]

@ABR:

You say "yes" and "full reveal". So you thought it was confirmed that MagnaofIllusion was *not* the Inner Circle member, because there was nothing about that in his flip. Why did you not immediately ask Baby Spice for the name of her other partner?

@Baby Spice:

Who determines the kill now that the Gang Leader is dead?

@Baby Spice:

Regardless of whether MagnaofIllusion was the Inner Circle member, the Inner Circle know who your partner is -- either because Magna told them, or because he's the IC himself. If he's not the IC, they're going to get him shot at some point because he's a threat to them. If he is the IC, then the Night Riders have already lost. You may as well out him, on the off chance that *he* is the IC, give him up.

[Magua]

EBWOP, sorry, that middle question should've been for the mod:

@Mod:

Who determines the kill now that the Gang Leader is dead?

[Magua]

@Mod:

Who is the member who determines the kills? Eg, if there are only two members of a scumgroup left, one being the IC and one not, how is it determined which one gets to perform the kill?

[Magua]

@Baby Spice:

Kindly ask ReaperCharlie who gets to determine the kills now that the Gang Leader is dead, kthx.

[Magua]

RC sent a PM.

Well, that answers that question at least.

[Magua]

Strike: LadyLambdaDelta

Exe's signed his own death warrant. If he's IC trading his lynch for someone, anyone's, even a buddy, that's a good move for us. Which is why I don't think it's true. Pretty goddamn certain that Exe is a Skull Crusher, LLD is the Skull Crusher IC, and there you go.

That'll leave us with three scum to deal with, the remaining Night Rider, the DSK, and the town IC.

Exe, who did you kill each night?

[Magua]

Also:
Magua: what happened to you thirsting for my blood? You feel like making up now?

Same thing that happened with Hrezs. Circumstances changed. New information. Claimed scum takes precedence.

Also, to everyone: hellll no, I am not giving you my list of kills.

I am not completely abandoning my wincon. I'm attempting to get as close to winning as I can, which means eliminating as many people as possible.

How does giving us your list of kills hurt your wincon?

The IC *already has* your list of kills, after all. So the only reason to *not* give us this list would be to help the IC win. Yet, you claimed so that that precise thing would not happen, so now you not giving us the list of kills is kind of...odd.

So, you can trust this if you're smart: LLD's IC buddy is pretty much guaranteed to be Magua. LLD has fought a Magua night kill EVERY night.

Yay! <3 LLD

[Magua]

Magua, what happens if your teammates die?

Town loses.

[Magua]

What happens to your teammates if you die?

Depends if I'm the last town or not.

[Magua]

Is camn the serial killer?

Maybe. Fits the profile.

[Magua]

LLD's strike against SC makes it impossible to block and kill both LLD and Exe I think (Kast probably knows best, since apparently I haven't gotten the numbers right all game).

This is correct, but we can still roleblock StrangerCoug.

[Magua]

IC? Who knows. Who cares?
They both die.

PLus, I dont see the percentage in launching another wagon right now.
If the daykiller misses, we lynch EXE tomorrow.

Camn finally has a good post.

[Magua]

LLD is Skullcrusher IC.
Exe is the other Skullcrusher.

StrangerCoug is the last Night Rider, so roleblocking him is a good idea.

Find the DSK after that, then lynching the town IC should be easy, as there'll be no more kills.

[Magua]

These are almost contradictory statements. LLD came out today trying to quickly get after SC. This makes no sense if they are IC buddies. The only way that SC could be the last NR and not IC is if that IC died earlier, in which case LLD had already lost and her actions make little sense. Also, you do realize that LLD-IC implicates you as well, according to Exe's info, right?

Pretty sure Magna was the Night Riders IC. Pretty sure that LLD is the Skull Takers IC. Not seeing why the IC would *not* want the Night Riders NK taken care of if it wasn't under their control; you lost me there. I fail to see the contradiction.

Honestly don't care if LLD implicates me or not, because it changes nothing: take out the scum, take out the DSK, then you can lynch me to your heart's desire.

I'm not so sure if we should block SC though, given the info on LLD.

Given that it's free, why would we *not*?

[Magua]

This literally makes no sense. You don't believe SC is the last NR but you're striking him?

Explain why you don't think SC should be roleblocked, given that:
1) It costs us nothing
2) With LLD's strike, no other person can be roleblocked

[Magua]

Ummm how about he can be a cop or a jailkeeper?? Is that a good enough reason?

Literally do not care. If he is, and there's two kills tonight, then he's cleared of being the last NR, which is infinitely better.

You can think he's confirmed town all you want. I think Magna was NR IC, SC is remaining NR, and LLD was trying to remove the uncontrolled kill, and as such, I want him roleblocked.

[Magua]

LOLWUT?

Did I stutter?

[Magua]

Maybe a little, but don't worry, no one noticed.

No, really, go on. I want to hear the funny.

[Magua]

The bolded line should be enough.

You think BabySpice was wrong?

[Magua]

LLD, if you're not the IC, will you give us the ST kills?

[Magua]

P-Edit: What does it benefit me? My faction has lost already. Helping town at this point would be unsportsmanlike to the IC. -shrug-

Isn't Exe the IC who outted you, causing you to lose? Why help him win?

[Magua]

LLD, so if the day started with you knowing that Exe was the IC in your faction, why did you strike StrangerCoug?

[Magua]

Let me rephrase.

Why were you so certain that StrangerCoug was the last remaining Night Rider that you were willing to strike him above someone who was 100%-confirmed-IC to you?

[Magua]

With 14, 9 strikes to kill and 7 to roleblock.
Assuming the DSK kills, 8 to kill and 6 to roleblock.

Of (Kise, Kublai Khan, Mute, Plum, Toogeloo), 1 strikes LLD, 4 strike SC.

[Magua]

-If LLD was an IC, then it is completely implausible that she would have come out as she did without wearing the IC vest. If the lynch had failed, it would have confirmed her as IC (and based on Exe, it would have cleared SC as non-IC). Since the lynch DID fail, then it doesn't seem at all plausible that LLD was IC.

This (bulletproof vest protects from lynches) kind of made sense when it was "All the IC have to be alive." If it's now "Control the majority of the town," it makes no sense, because the IC would never be able to lose. I seriously doubt we have to worry about this.

Anyways, there's no way that both Exe and SC are IC members. If so, then a kill failed and you better believe that Exe would be telling us. IC need the DSK dead. No, ABR is right that the Night Riders roleblocker just roleblocked him.

That said, it seems fairly obvious to me that Exe and SC are the remaining scum. I think LLD was IC was trying to clean up the Night Riders, which is why she didn't immediately come out against Exe (who did come out against her).

And seriously I'm against blocking SC, I think it's retarded. But whatever, like I said, JK's decision, whatever, let's lynch now

Roleblock someone today. If there's a death, they're cleared of being the mafia. What part of this do you not like? In fact, all security guards, especially if they're one shot, should pick someone and roleblock them. With Exe gone, there'll only be one scum. This is the *perfect* time to roleblock someone. Either we'll save a kill or we'll have a cleared non-Night Rider. I'm seriously not getting your opposition to this plan.

With 11 alive, it takes 7 strikes to kill, and 5 strikes to send someone to the hospital. After the DSK kills, it will take 6 and 4. You have one strike on me and five strikes on Exe already. That leaves five strikes remaining. We should place four on StrangerCoug, and *only then* have someone hammer on Exe, so that the DSK can't end the day early again.

Holding off on striking until I get an answer: Exe, who'd you kill each night?

[Magua]

She didn't *protect* SC, she was trying to get him lynched. Hence "cleaning up the Night Riders".

Is your disagreement in blocking SC, or is it blocking *anyone*?

[Magua]

Wait a minute I made a mistake....sorry. LL wanted to kill SC. So if she's trying to lynch SC, how does that make SC her partner if she's IC?

*headdesk*

*Magna* was the Night Rider IC. SC is the last Night Rider. Not an IC.

I think it's fucking stupid that we are trying to get some stupid mafioso when the DSK should be our main concern. The DSK renders all remaining PRs useless. Mafia can be JK'd, victim can be saved by paramedic, whatever. DSK is our main concern.

If that's the case, why'd you strike Exe?

[Magua]

Numbers get recalculated after the DSK kills.

I'm waiting on Exe to either give the list of kill targets or refuse to do so, then I'm going to strike StrangerCoug.

[Magua]

strike:
Magua

Striking strangercoug would allow the daykiller to steal our block away!
We need 4 hits on Magua, then add one to Exe (making it 6)... then the last person (you, Magua) can either hammer Exe, get daykilled, or strike someone else, proving they are scum?

Ftr: I Obv support a Exe lynch

*sighs*

Seriously? We could've roleblocked anyone. We had the strikes. I worked out the math here.

Is there some reason you didn't want SC to be roleblocked?

But, whatever. Two more people strike me. At least I'll be confirmed non-Night Rider.

tl;dr:
- Two more people strike me.
- No else strikes Exe until I've got four strikes on, or the DSK can end the day.

[Magua]

Nevermind, missed Kast's vote. DSK can already end the day.

Strike: Magua

makes 3.

Hopefully Hrezs or Plum will make the fourth before the kill.

[Magua]

ABR, that strike was goddamn stupid.

Also, since the strikes yesterday after my strike didn't count, we can be pretty sure that the DSK pre-submitted a kill OR was online between my strike and the next strike. Also, given that the DSK reacted to the info from BS, it looks like that kill doesn't need to be made immediately on day start.

Both of these things. I would adjust the plan, though: place enough strikes on the person to be roleblocked *first* so we don't get any asshattery with the DSK killing early, then place the strikes to lynch. The only possible downside is that if the DSK *doesn't* kill then we get no lynch. But the only reason I can see the DSK not killing is if we were going to lynch the DSK, so even that seems win because then we can just lynch that person tomorrow.

With 9 alive, it's 6 to lynch and 4 to block.
With 8 alive, it's 5 to lynch and 4 to block. So in order to block someone, we need the very last strike to be the 5th strike on the lynch target, and we need the person who's getting lynched and the person who's getting roleblocked to play along. Of course, if either of them decides to not play along, we'll just lynch them, because they're scum, so.

I'm still very much wanting a StrangerCoug roleblock and a camn lynch. I can't have these things, because ABR is a tool. So now I'm thinking StrangerCoug roleblock/Mute lynch.

[Magua]

1. Shut the fuck up with your stupid blocking plan

What is your complaint against the blocking plan? Seriously. It doesn't cost us *a thing*. It can *only clear people of being the Night Rider*. What is the downside? Paramedic can't save? Security guard can't roleblock? Whoop-de-shit. I'd rather have a publicly confirmed non-Night-Rider than a paramedic or security who *might* *maybe* have a non-Night-Rider...if they claim.

I seriously don't get where you're coming from here, because everything you *say* sounds like you want to avoid having people cleared, but I can only imagine that if you are scum you wouldn't be so goddamn scummy.

[Magua]

I am the security supervisor. I block someone every night.

I blocked SC the night the night riders killed bunnylover.

I blocked Mute last night.

Discuss.

k. Explains why you didn't want SC roleblocked. But then why didn't you just suggest someone else be roleblocked instead? And why are you still against roleblocking someone now?

I don't like the flailing in his response, but his lynch is a good check to make sure nobody tried to kill him.

Explain plz.

[Magua]

@Magua-
What are your thoughts regarding MoI's statement that BS bussed the 4th nightrider?

With Magna, the level of WIFOM is just too high -- when you know he's not playing to your win condition, you can't take what he says at face value.

All that said, Mute's claimed antitown. Either we lynch him and he's the town IC, or we lynch him and he's the last mafia. Either way is good in my book.

@KK/Magua-
It looks like 3 for Mute (ABR, SC, Kise) and 3 for ABR (Mute, Camn, Kast). Plum's on V/LA, what say you guys?

This may be irrelevant (now), but I stand by what I said about ABR Day 2: if he's scum, he's expendable scum -- and now, all the expendable scum are dead. His play has been aggressive (to a fault), but it's been town.

So if ABR is blocked, Mute is lynched, flips town, and no kill happens... we think ABR did it is the gang banger? So then we lynch ABR, he flips town... the last gang member points and laughs at everyone. Did I get that hypothetical scenario down right?

So the gang member points and laughs at everyone as we lynch ABR and roleblock someone else. Either the gang member NEVER KILLS -- good -- or the gang member CLEARS THE SUSPECT WHO GOT ROLEBLOCKED. Seriously, how can anyone even argue with this plan?

Also, if Mute's claim is true and he is the town IC, that still leaves last night's kill is unaccounted for. ABR is wrong, and we should still roleblock someone. Best case, Mute is last scum, and the roleblock does nothing. Worst case, it either stops a kill or gives us a clear. And at this point, I'm very much wanting to roleblock Kise. ABR's reticence I'm willing to chalk up to him being ABR. Kise, not so much.

[Magua]

Derp da derp.

Just ask Mute.

Mute, who's the last Night Rider?

[Magua]

Kast: I just don't get how

you just threw away our only chance.

You guys really fucked me

Fits in with:

I am town, and my win con is exactly the same as it was when I got my role PM at the beginning of the game.

Those two do not go together.

Despite all this, Kast ain't the DSK, and camn is. We lynch the DSK first. If the game's still going after that, we can lynch Kast if needed. Easy game is easy.

Strike: camn

[Magua]

After I die, everyone who is against massclaim should be examined.
And you two morons are busy letting people off the hook with your quickstrikes.

How is it protown to be hasty right when victory is in our grasp?

You've been quickstriking the whole game. I want in on the fun.

[Magua]

camn is still the lynch for today, but ABR may have slipped on his claim. Bolded is my emphasis:

Post #1523

Night 1 - Kublai Klan

Night 2 - Magua

Night 3 - Strangercoug
Night 4 - Exe
Night 5 - Mute
Night 6 - Kast

Post #1463

And one of the targets I detained was KK the night there was only one kill, but the gang leaders were still alive at the time meaning this information is useless.

The first night I detained Magua.

This information is also useless.

P-Edit: Self strike. Oh well.

[Magua]

/strike StrangerCoug

[Magua]

Ergh.

Kast, all details about your role that you can give out, please.

[Magua]

Hooray!

Game was pretty stressful for me at times, and I was unsure even up until the last day about whether Kast might have some surprise up his sleeve that could ruin things for me.

(What was up with your role anyways, Kast?)

Knifing the Night SK also made me a sad panda. =/

Congrats, Magua. You played a great game and I'm more than annoyed that I saved your ass on the night that Exe (I think?) targetted you.

Thanks for that! In return, I killed you quick. =)

[Magua]

Nice job. You framed Camn really well. How exactly did your kill work?

I had a dayvig I could use at any time during the day. I was allowed to pre-submit the kill, along with when it would go off. Nearly all of my kills (except for Magna, IIRC) were timed to go off when the target was at L-1. The day I killed Magna, I had submitted a kill for Kise to die at L-1, but overrode it after BabySpice claimed. (I thought at the time that killing Magna would cause the other two IC to die, for some strange reason; in retrospect, it wasn't a good kill.)

I think it was fairly obvious the reason I was trying to appear scummy; it's because I didn't want to get daykilled. In the end it came down to Kast's decision and he "liked" Magua more. I am not liked. BAWW

FWIW, I was more scared of you than any other player in the game. I was *really* worried that D7, D8, or D9 would start with you placing a strike on me and starting a bandwagon. If it's any consolation.

I feel like the SKs should have been some-sort of Bulletproof. Modified Bulletproof, perhaps. Oneshot, enabled by each other, etc. SOMETHING.

I was one-shot bulletproof, but I never got shot (thanks again, Kublai!)

And thanks (more seriously) to everyone for the scummy nomination. And thanks to RC for modding.

AND LOOK ANDRIUS. TWO DAYKILLERS WON TWO GAMES TODAY. Doesn't that make you happy?

[Magua]

So why wasn't UT bulletproof?

I asked RC this question when I saw the flip. He told me that I didn't know. =P

NO IT DOESNT. STFU, ITS YOUR FAULT YOU DIDNT LISTEN TO MEEEEEEEE

*pokes the baker with a stick*

Also:

The Inner Circle were composed of curiouskarmadog, Hrezs, and Friend/Xalxe/Mute

I'm amazed that two of the three IC were under suspicion and possible lynch targets D1.

[Magua]

Dude Magua was a dead man walking.

No, I had it won the moment you and Kast struck StrangerCoug D8, because I could've immediately killed at the start of D9.

I held back because I was scared that there might be a hiccup (Kast having the vest, or Kast being able to endgame in some weird scenario). If one of you had struck me first, I would've daykilled the other right then and there, which would've been a no lynch. I was holding back hoping that you would strike Kast and I could get him lynched.

So, <3 to Kast for liking me, but Kast liking me didn't cost you the win.

[Magua]

Could have speedlynched you though

A possibility I was well aware of, yes. I was actually kind of expecting it from you, as I intimated before. My point is, don't blame Kast. =P

[Magua]

Can someone post the QTs?

[Magua]

Plum being killed over anyone else is pure wifom and I wouldn't fall for it

Damn you, Magua!

Hey, man, it was Plum or you. =P

2 Fuck you Magua -You killed me. Why? =(

There was no way your security guard claim was fake, so there was no way you were scum *or* the DSK. Once the last Night Rider was lynched, you would've been cleared.

At first, I killed lurkers because I surmised my biggest enemy was the IC, so I was aiming at people who were flying under the radar. After Magna died, I switched gears to killing confirmed town. The irony of killing IC after I stopped trying to kill IC and instead kill town does not escape me. =P

Friend flaking has made me pissed off more and more as the game has gone on(especially after my death). We would have had all 3 members alive as he would have just blocked AGM's ckd kill in secret. Seriously.

I was curious about that when I saw CKD was IC, until I read the night actions. I'd be hella pissed too.

I think just about everything that needed to be said about the setup was discussed in the dead qt.

Which no one's linked to yet for me. =/

Dead QT, please.

1. One about the setup, things you liked and didn't like, ways you think it could be improved, etc.

Obviously, I liked my role. But, I also feel sorry for the Night SK; it just seems so weak compared to the DSK.

I like the Inner Circle concept. But I do think that there needs to be some feedback on IC deaths (regardless of whether they all need to be alive or not). As it was, the scum were essentially playing their own internal game of mafia, except that it was no-reveal and they couldn't lynch.

I think just labelling the IC flips is good enough. Maybe even leave off the town IC flip, to keep the paranoia going about whether the IC has been destroyed or not. Maybe also allow the scum to lynch one of their own instead of night-killing. if they so desire.

I actually kind of enjoyed the /strike system. Part of this may be emotional (it heavily worked in my favor), but because it did personify some of the themes for the game. It was totally a workable system to just vote and not strike, but it got tossed, and part of me found that to be almost artistic.

(It might be interesting to have more roles be able to interact with /strikes, though: like, a paramedics can undo some/all strikes on someone once a day, things like that.)

2. One about the players, who you think did well/poorly, happenings that you really enjoyed, etc.

Like I said, ABR scared the everloving bejeezus out of me. And the thing was, starting D3, he was *right* on *everything*.

Although I wasn't aware of it in the game, I'd be hella pissed at Friend if I was IC and died because a roleblock wasn't submitted to save me. He flaked out of a game I modded as well, so confirmation bias is definitely going on there.

Finally, I really enjoyed reading the flavor, which have to be my favorite flavor scenes so far that don't involve Faraday

butchering

rapping the Fresh Prince of Bel-Air.

[Magua]

Daykill: Faraday

Do it at the usual time, right before the lynch.