Newbie 1072 - Game Over!

[KingTwelveSixteen]

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Charlie - Obvscum.
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I think the answer lies in me trying to post succinctly added with you thinking too much over a simple matter. In other words, you've spotted some small detail and you've made a mountain out of a molehill.

So you admit to being scum then?

Thats kind of a patronizing thing to say.

@ Ghostlin: Understood. Perhaps it would help to know that when I made that comment about those two replacing out, I thought of an early game I played in as SE Cop where both the IC and other SE were Mafia Goons. The chances of this configuration of all experienced players not being VT is slim; that's what I'm thinking about in this game too: the chances of both players who replaced out are Mafia is slim, but its possible. That's it.
...

This sounds like an excuse to me, I can't really see how you would be meaning that from your previous statement. It sounded to me - from the beginning - that you were just saying that your two biggest suspects replaced out and you were annoyed by it.

In light of new arguments, I can definitely see a base to Ts' guilt. He's still largely neutral to me though...

Not gonna answer my question then?

Dude, I did not comment on anything specifically. I am not suspicious towards anybody. I'm not attacking people. Then why did you say I'm trying too hard to appear pro-town?

So you arn't making comments on anything specific, nor are you scumhunting or even suspicious of anyone? Your right, that sounds nothing like somebody trying to appear pro-town, sounds more like somebody being incredibly anti-town.

[Twistedspoon]

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Charlie - Obvscum.

Question to the more experienced players: Do scum or town usually confess more often to being scum. I can't imagine why either would want to do it. Is charlie trying to confuse us? Am i just looking too much into it?

Anyways, will post later; Haven't forgotten

[tclawren]

tclawren (replaced gxw) - I'm not letting that so-called slip made by gxw to go by without being addressed. I need tclawren to at least try to explain why did his player slot did what he did: Answer the question directed to gxw, why did he say this:-

Well now I REALLY want to hammer TS, but I just realized that I already have a vote on him :/ That's pretty much all i have to say...

well... I really have no idea what he was thinking. But, I would guess that he thought something TS said in between this post and the post before it was really scummy and he really wanted to hammer him. And then realized he had already voted. (something I think he forgot evidenced in the post before the one in question: #100)

The problem is I'm not him, I can't tell you what his read on TS was. As I said already my first readthrough I thought TS's behavior was most easily explained by an inexperienced town. Hence why I changed my vote on him. Sorry I can't help you out any more.

P-edit: TS, I know you said you will post later, but please post soon. Thanks

[Twistedspoon]

P-edit: TS, I know you said you will post later, but please post soon. Thanks

hit me with some questions

I'm really bad at going back to find questions. I usually miss some out because I don't see them as questions or to me, and then people get annoyed that I ignore their questions :/

But I'm ready to accept your questions now. Bear in mind I can't prove anything and therefore some answers may inevitably be seen to be WIFOM. But i'll try my best

[tclawren]

Dazzy wrote:

Another, more recent issue is his vote on Forseti. Voting someone because they haven't been around much helps us in no way.

TS wrote:

well we've got discussion going now see. I'm good at getting discussion going, but at the expense of my townieness. It's a problem i have. I believe in newbie 1050 my first post was 'Who's the doctor then' That really got discussion going, but against me XP
anyways, it was a pressure vote at the time. That's the only way I could have been sure we didn't have a lurker. We probably don't, but still :/

This looks like evasion to me. You didn't answer the question. Why did you post this and what is your answer to the question? I hope this is clear.

[Twistedspoon]

I voted foresti because
1) I had a null read on him
2) If he was a lurker then I assumed he would respond to the vote
3) I really wouldn't have voted if i believe it made no difference. What would the point of that be to town or scum? :/

[Ghostlin]

I didn't no vote to helpt he town, I did it just because. Someone has to die, and I really wouldn't like to decide who is that. I think my game so far has been rather selfish (working on that), what made you think I'm struggling to appear pro-town.

This raises my hackles. Why? Town wins only if we lynch people and a flip, ANY flip helps us. We flip town today, we have one less suspect and can look at the wagons that happened during the day to help find the other, as well as commentary. I'm debating whether or not this blantant fence sitting is scummy or not enough to change my vote. It's certainly enough for me to take another look.

[Twistedspoon]

^this

even my lynch would help town; I admit it. If I wasn't me I'd advocate my lynch since the fliip would really expand our horizons

Basically the town has 2 weapons; the lynch and their brains (and the information from the flip that inform them). Both, sadly, are under the (smaller) influence of scum. However, wanting to not lynch kills one of our weapons and severely limits the second.
It also means no flip which makes the town unable to slowly be more informed, as the Mafia are.

I really don't know how I missed that, but good find Ghostlin.
It certainly adds weight to the case on farmer.

[Ghostlin]

I voted foresti because
1) I had a null read on him
2) If he was a lurker then I assumed he would respond to the vote
3) I really wouldn't have voted if i believe it made no difference. What would the point of that be to town or scum? :/

1) If you have a null read on Foresti, who do you believe is scum? Do you think a Foresti vote is more important than them?

2) Fair enough.

3) It is possible it could be a scum tactic to redirect conversation, or a town tactic as a prod. You wish for us to believe the second.

[Twistedspoon]

1) If you have a null read on Foresti, who do you believe is scum? Do you think a Foresti vote is more important than them?

2) Fair enough.

3) It is possible it could be a scum tactic to redirect conversation, or a town tactic as a prod. You wish for us to believe the second.

1) well This game is quite annoying because null reads are as far the scummy reads as I get. Not sure I was liking farmer or Gxw, but they replaced out, so we'll have to see. Mute seems to be trying a little too hard to be town too, yet still trying to balance lurking and activity. At this stage I have just a gut read on him.

3)town tactic is cool with me. Of course redirecting conversation would have been cool too if Foresti posted to help develop my read on him

[Meransiel]

Dude, I did not comment on anything specifically. I am not suspicious towards anybody. I'm not attacking people. Then why did you say I'm trying too hard to appear pro-town?

So you arn't making comments on anything specific, nor are you scumhunting or even suspicious of anyone? Your right, that sounds nothing like somebody trying to appear pro-town, sounds more like somebody being incredibly anti-town.

Isn't it just great when 2 people attack you with 2 different, even contradictory arguments? Believe me, it's not.

I didn't no vote to helpt he town, I did it just because. Someone has to die, and I really wouldn't like to decide who is that. I think my game so far has been rather selfish (working on that), what made you think I'm struggling to appear pro-town.

This raises my hackles. Why? Town wins only if we lynch people and a flip, ANY flip helps us. We flip town today, we have one less suspect and can look at the wagons that happened during the day to help find the other, as well as commentary. I'm debating whether or not this blantant fence sitting is scummy or not enough to change my vote. It's certainly enough for me to take another look.

I didn't say I don't want a lynch to take place. I just don't want to have a part in it, unless the proof is obvious enough.

[Twistedspoon]

I didn't say I don't want a lynch to take place. I just don't want to have a part in it, unless the proof is obvious enough.

so you want to keep your hands clean should a townie is lynched? Seriously, I can't think why you'd say that.

VOTE: Meransiel

[Meransiel]

I DO want to keep my hands clean should a townie be lynched, yes.

There are a couple reasons for that, you know. And if me saying this will get me NK'ed, people will know who to blame .

[Twistedspoon]

well in my experience these aren't good signs.

I DO want to keep my hands clean should a townie be lynched, yes.

usually a mafia tactic so they can basically say 'I told you so. listen to me next time' after a townie is killed. They know who's townie so it works for them.
anyways, does it matter who does the killing? You say you want a lynch so why does it matter that you don't participate in it?
Like i say, you're restricting the town's best weapon against the scum.

[Meransiel]

You're incredible! )

I've just softclaimed to having a power role, and you didn't even notice...is it really early where you are?

[Twistedspoon]

I've just softclaimed to having a power role, and you didn't even notice...is it really early where you are?

no, I just didn't want to draw attention to it should scum see it :/
too late now I guess

It's 8PM in the UK anyways. :/

I want a second opinion of Meransiel's softclaim and his decision not to partcipate in today's lynch.

[Meransiel]

I've just softclaimed to having a power role, and you didn't even notice...is it really early where you are?

no, I just didn't want to draw attention to it should scum see it :/
too late now I guess

I should probably stop underestimating people...

[Ghostlin]

I've just softclaimed to having a power role, and you didn't even notice...is it really early where you are?

no, I just didn't want to draw attention to it should scum see it :/
too late now I guess

I should probably stop underestimating people...

Stop. By pointing out your soft claim, you've hurt town's chances immensely if you are, in fact a powerrole. If you're the doctor or the cop, you've just confirmed the setup for scum while also increased your chances as an NK/RB target. If you are scum, then this is hideously scummy.

[tclawren]

Seriously Mer, what is the purpose of a softclaim? It makes no sense. Mafia have the same chance of reading and deciphering it as anyone else.

[Ghostlin]

I've just softclaimed to having a power role, and you didn't even notice...is it really early where you are?

no, I just didn't want to draw attention to it should scum see it :/
too late now I guess

It's 8PM in the UK anyways. :/

I want a second opinion of Meransiel's softclaim and his decision not to partcipate in today's lynch.

We leave him alive, and then see if he's alive tomorrow morning. If he is, that lowers the options somewhat.

[tclawren]

This is just bad all around. If we keep him alive through the night and he's still alive, then he could be scum. Or it could the hugest WIFOM in existence.

*grumblegrumblegrumble*

UNVOTE: Meransiel

[Twistedspoon]

>_>
advantage mafia

Just look at newbie 1050 for proof. The cop and doc both claimed on day 1. I got RB'd and the cop got killed. 'Twas a perfect mafia sweep.
Breadcrumbing is probably the only type of claim you should do unless you're about to be hammered in a newbie game, or you're a cop with a guilty verdict.

so now that you've gone and softclaimed(too late now) do you mind explaining why you don't want to help the town lynch scum?

[Ghostlin]

This is just bad all around. If we keep him alive through the night and he's still alive, then he could be scum. Or it could the hugest WIFOM in existence.

*grumblegrumblegrumble*

UNVOTE: Meransiel

TC; the only other option is a roleblock. If he's RBed, that confirms the setup if we accept Mer's town. Yes, it sucks, but it's the most logical play right now.

[Twistedspoon]

triple Ninja'd:

keep him alive? what if that's what the mafia want us to do.

Assuming he isn't mafia the mafia could just RB him and thus make him seem scum by having a claimed PR still alive.
Assuming he is mafia we should lynch him.

really don't know why he softclaimed at all. It doesn't answer my question at all and there was no hammer on him

[Twistedspoon]

although I guess we can't kill a softclaimed PR for today.
Ghostlin makes sense.

Even if he is scum we can still try and get his partner today.