all right then, i guess its time to come clean. this was indeed a gambit, and it did exactly what i had intended. i am ready to accept your scorn and loathing, as i did decieve the town, but with true intentions. if i had taken back the gambit too soon we wouldnt have gotten some of the reactions that we did. i am disappointed at the lack of participation, though. now that that's out of the way, we can now discuss vm's reaction and others' reactions to this as well. vm really came off bad right after i had declared him to be scum, but imo he improved his standing a bit with his later posts. i can see how, as a newer player, he could think that cop-variants would be allowed in the game, and i think it is possible that he read his role wrong, though he easily could have read that neighborizer is a role off the link i gave about normal games and corrected his scumgaff after he read more about the roles. his first post after i claimed he was scum, though, really looks bad to me. it reads as corned scum that got angry he had been found out.
once again, im sorry that i lied to you, but the game wasnt moving and i had a really good feeling that vm was scum. i was tempted to leave it in play until after vm was dead and day 2 had started, but if he did indeed flip town, that would probably mean 2 mislynches in 2 days, which is certainly a terrible way to start the game. i thought it was best to let the town discuss this with the knowledge that it was a gambit.
jeez pappums, and here I thought we had a scum wrapped up 100%. Now it's only, like 50% or so.
My reaction: pappums is town. If he were scumgambiting, he would have no reason not to let the wagon run its course and then claim "lol insane cop my bad lololololol." So yeah.
Voided...is iffy, I really need to reread his postings.
Also, UNVOTE: Voidedmafia
"I, too, would prefer to know the Xalxe of my demise." - Felissan, 2022
- On this day in history: mundanity, and terror, and food, and love, and trees -
Besides, if I was town, it wouldn't have mattered whether or not if was a gambit because you'd be dead. And I still just don't like that you did that in the first place.
However, I'm not sure if you've actually changed your stance on me at all...
2011 scummies winner (BTS help) and participant;
coming back to Mafia...slowly. Keep an eye for me as a mod.
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pappums rat wrote:not really, i still think it is pretty likely you are scum. in fact,
vote voidedmafia
Well, you've mentioned that my first post in reaction to your claim was rather scummy (and I'd have to admit I was rather taken aback by the claim, so it wasn't as good a response as I could've presented). And like I said, I never even clicked the link, so that takes out that possibility for my role mix-up.
But now that your fakeclaim is gone, what else leads you to believe I'm scum?
2011 scummies winner (BTS help) and participant;
coming back to Mafia...slowly. Keep an eye for me as a mod.
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Well, thanks pappums I guess for getting the game rolling. As of right now I'm still at a loss for anyone else to come off as scummy, probably because many people were V/LA this weekend and not posting much. Voided's claim still seems suspicious though as neighborizer is not a common role and he could have easily picked it to throw everyone off. But then again, I feel like if he were scum he would have picked a more common claim.
And Pappums is pretty much cleared in my book for that gambit, because drawing that much attention to yourself only to say "lol jk" really doesn't strike me as something a scum would do for fear of putting too much of a bad impression in people's heads. And it really did seem to be for the good of the town that he corrected himself. Or he didn't want us to lynch voided only to have people realize he was scum.
On second thought that sounds scummy... I'm confused now.
I'll leave my vote here for now for lack of any better idea of what to do.
You had my hopes up pappums. But at least it did get this game sorta moving so your initiative was good.
Part of my suspicion on voided is whether he lied about his claim or if he just misread it. Yes, he could have misread a neighborizer claim as scum, but if he had that power role as scum I also think he'd be more careful about getting it right because its not something he'd have to make up on the spot. As town he might be more likely to think he's going to be lynched anyway so he answer like its an offhand comment.
So I think we should test voided's claim to clear up one suspicion I have.
I think we should keep voided alive
If I'm not mistaken, mini normals are allowed 1 "non-normal" role
"Those that hammer others are called scum. But I think those who lurk and refrain from voting are worse than scum. If I'm going to be called scum either way, I'd rather hammer! And if that's not being a proper Mafia player, then I'll destroy that idea!"
Jahudo wrote:You had my hopes up pappums. But at least it did get this game sorta moving so your initiative was good.
Part of my suspicion on voided is whether he lied about his claim or if he just misread it. Yes, he could have misread a neighborizer claim as scum, but if he had that power role as scum I also think he'd be more careful about getting it right because its not something he'd have to make up on the spot. As town he might be more likely to think he's going to be lynched anyway so he answer like its an offhand comment.
So I think we should test voided's claim to clear up one suspicion I have.
How would you test it? Even if I decide to pick you as my neighbor you could just come out and say "See! The mod picked me as his neighbor! Voided never picked me at all!" And I'd be the only one to be able to argue that unless Rhinox has a problem with that, and I don't think he will.
Jerbs: Oh, there you are.
2011 scummies winner (BTS help) and participant;
coming back to Mafia...slowly. Keep an eye for me as a mod.
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Jahudo wrote:Neighbors are determined pre-game, it would be part of your role pm.
Not my point. Unless both I and the person I'm neighbored with get notified that we are neighbors, this point of yours is nulled.
MY point is that nothing is stopping you or anyone else from just out and claiming that I neighbored with you, unless you can prove what I just said above this.
2011 scummies winner (BTS help) and participant;
coming back to Mafia...slowly. Keep an eye for me as a mod.
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That fakeclaim was bullshit pappums. The fact you lied and then came clean does not in any way clear you as someone mentioned above. The fact you took a game that was still in the fairly early stages and completely derailed it with a lie about someone else...and basically skewed the rest of the conversations by having them based on your lie, did nothing but waste two RL days and 4 pages of discussion. And you forced Voided to claim (though I don't think mafia would be worried about a "Neighborizor").
Still not sure Voided's claim is legit either and it in no way confirms him as town. He could still be scum and easily either neighbor up with a townie or claim to neighbor with one of his scum partners. We don't know. And now we are back almost as far as we were when the fakeclaim was made. Nice focking lying gambit. Just kidding.
Woah... I don't like the lying from Pappums, and I don't like people "clearing him" because he made a gutsy move. I've made a lot of gutsy moves and played scum that way before, and people cleared me for almost the identical purpose. So Pappums is in no way clearing in my book. However, I don't like Fitz either, for scummy play and reasons I've already posted. Also:
Why on earth am I coming off scummy to you Andrews? And whoever else called me scummy, please either post your case, if you have one, or do some ACTUAL scum hunting. That'd be great.
neil1113 wrote:Woah... I don't like the lying from Pappums, and I don't like people "clearing him" because he made a gutsy move. I've made a lot of gutsy moves and played scum that way before, and people cleared me for almost the identical purpose. So Pappums is in no way clearing in my book. However, I don't like Fitz either, for scummy play and reasons I've already posted. Also:
Why on earth am I coming off scummy to you Andrews? And whoever else called me scummy, please either post your case, if you have one, or do some ACTUAL scum hunting. That'd be great.
neil, I get your point, but explain to me why pappums benefits from this gambit AND coming out with it now as scum. Please.
"I, too, would prefer to know the Xalxe of my demise." - Felissan, 2022
- On this day in history: mundanity, and terror, and food, and love, and trees -
neil1113 wrote:Woah... I don't like the lying from Pappums, and I don't like people "clearing him" because he made a gutsy move. I've made a lot of gutsy moves and played scum that way before, and people cleared me for almost the identical purpose. So Pappums is in no way clearing in my book. However, I don't like Fitz either, for scummy play and reasons I've already posted. Also:
Why on earth am I coming off scummy to you Andrews? And whoever else called me scummy, please either post your case, if you have one, or do some ACTUAL scum hunting. That'd be great.
neil, I get your point, but explain to me why pappums benefits from this gambit AND coming out with it now as scum. Please.
Okay, pappums is scum. Why would he reveal that is was a gambit now?
Essential, I want you to argue against this:
Xalxe wrote: My reaction: pappums is town. If he were scumgambiting, he would have no reason not to let the wagon run its course and then claim "lol insane cop my bad lololololol." So yeah.
"I, too, would prefer to know the Xalxe of my demise." - Felissan, 2022
- On this day in history: mundanity, and terror, and food, and love, and trees -
neil1113 wrote:@Andrew: WHY are you posting to little and have such a lazy meta? Are you willing to pick your game up for this game and be pro-town, or do you really not care? If the latter, I won't have any problem with a policy lynch later on in the day.
to the previous page, i meant this post was suspicious, not his next one.
if you look at this, it basically shows that he is making abackup andrew wagon.
neil1113 wrote:@Andrew: WHY are you posting to little and have such a lazy meta? Are you willing to pick your game up for this game and be pro-town, or do you really not care? If the latter, I won't have any problem with a policy lynch later on in the day.
to the previous page, i meant this post was suspicious, not his next one.
if you look at this, it basically shows that he is making abackup andrew wagon.
infact he is gonna be day 2 lynch
Dude, make some goddamn SENSE before you open your mouth.
2011 scummies winner (BTS help) and participant;
coming back to Mafia...slowly. Keep an eye for me as a mod.
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Xalxe, your argument seems to be "it's TOO scummy to actually be a scum move." That's a fallacy, and it's one you (if you're town) need to be VERY careful to avoid. It's not town oriented, and you can't possibly clear him because "he did such a stupid, anti-town move that he can't possibly actually be scum (anti-town)." As scum in my previous games, there's been certain instances where I SPECIFICALLY did something (like completely push for a day 1 lynch on one of my partners who wasn't active at all that game) that if you thought about it, there's no way I being scum would actually do it. But I did, and I did it to bring out that exact reaction. The town bought onto it, and I rode my way to a victory. Don't be so close minded to do it this time with him, Xalxe.
Andrew, if I read your statement correctly, which is slightly difficult to do... I believe you're saying because I said "if he(you) ACTUALLY IS lazy, and anti-town, then I'd have no problem lynching him" when we currently had no other path to go on, that I am scum because I said that? If so, I have three questions for you.
1. Why?
2. What is the benefit of keeping an Anti-Town, Lazy person in a game?
3. Have you done anything this game yet, to prove the opposite of the following accusations brought up against you?
Voided, it's not a rule, and so I can't enforce it, or force you to do anything... but, I don't mind cursing. I don't actually mind most words, as they don't bother me. But if at all possible, and if nothing else, just out of respect for myself, could you avoid using the G.D. word? If not, I understand and I won't complain about it again. I was just hoping you would.
Quite frankly, I'm ticked off (or pissed, if you don't mind that) that andrew has so far made nearly no sense whatsoever in his posts. The only two that made any amount sense recently are the post asking me to claim, and the post that says that neighborizers aren't always town-aligned.
If he'd try to make sense with this case against you, then I wouldn't be so up about it.
2011 scummies winner (BTS help) and participant;
coming back to Mafia...slowly. Keep an eye for me as a mod.
Also keep an eye for setup review requests.
Voidedmafia wrote:Quite frankly, I'm ticked off (or pissed, if you don't mind that) that andrew has so far made nearly no sense whatsoever in his posts. The only two that made any amount sense recently are the post asking me to claim, and the post that says that neighborizers aren't always town-aligned.
If he'd try to make sense with this case against you, then I wouldn't be so up about it.
I understand. You don't have to change your way of talking, or not get mad around me! Haha, like I said... I don't mind really any words, except those two. Thank you for your respect though, seriously.
I'm definitely understanding the fitz argument about andrew now. I've played with characters like him before and they never get better. I've even gotten down to us two being the last few players and that players hammer coming down to a town loss. If all else fails and we can't decide a scum for today, an andrew (potential) mislynch wouldn't sit high on my conscience.
neil1113 wrote:@Andrew: WHY are you posting to little and have such a lazy meta? Are you willing to pick your game up for this game and be pro-town, or do you really not care? If the latter, I won't have any problem with a policy lynch later on in the day.
to the previous page, i meant this post was suspicious, not his next one.
if you look at this, it basically shows that he is making abackup andrew wagon.
infact he is gonna be day 2 lynch
Dude, make some goddamn SENSE before you open your mouth.
how about you learn to speak english.
i clearly said it was the post i quoted above that i built my case on.
you and some others looked at the next post neil made (thats why i said 'not his next one')
his post clearly states that he is making a 'backup', 'fallback' wagon of me.
Thank you for your respect though, seriously.