Open 291 Frenenemies (+ other guy) - Game over: Wolves win!

[ThAdmiral]

vote count

Crazy
Jerbs
Krazy - 3 (Crazy, smashbro_of_the_SSS, Glass)
Quaroath
singersigner - 1 (Krazy)
Glass
smashbro_of_the_SSS
Zodiark - 1 (LlamaFluff)
LlamaFluff
chkflip - 1 (singersigner)
Furculow - 1 (Jerbs)

Zodiark requested to be replaced so I am current looking for a replacement

[chkflip]

Sorry, been busy studying for an exam. Now I've got a funeral to go to. I'll shoot my opinion on the last eight pages when I get back (both home and into the right mind space).

[ThAdmiral]

DeathRowKitty replaces Zodiark

[DeathRowKitty]

Hi guys! Catching up now.

[Crazy]

Quotewalls ugh. Focusing on the main points FTW!

So Glass, I can't exactly figure out what you think Krazy's post #180

is

. Do you

think

it was a scumslip? Krazy just not reading your post? Or do you buy his current excuse that he was commenting on how your points about him seemed mutually exclusive?

[Crazy]

FoS Glass

You are voting for krazy though...
What's up?

I find both of you suspicious. Especially with 2 scum-teams, it's entirely possible that both you and Krazy are scum.

@Krazy - if you weren't sure whether Glass' original vote on you was a joke or not, why didn't you just ask him about that earlier?

You also seem to have a pretty well thought-out case on Glass, which makes it significantly worse that you didn't bring it up earlier. As a townie, why the heck would you keep your suspicions hidden like that?

[singersigner]

1 How screwed is the town?

2 Which are cooler, werewolves or mafia?

3 How lurkerish are YOU?

-Rate the following on a scale of Very Scummy to very Noobish to Totally Pro:

4 Asking questions about role mechanics (Is this always role fishing?)
5 Talking about No Lynch
6 Talking about theory in the first few pages

And the most important question:
7 Why haven't you voted Crazy yet?

1. This is a dumb question, but…yeah, it’s still on D1…
2. Team Edward!
3. Um, a little bit as of late, sowwies! (but usually not)
4. Never role-fishing if you’re asking the mod.
5. No-lynches are good in my-lo, NOT on D1.
6. Uh, depends on what kind of theory. Why would that be scummy?
7. You’re dumb.

To me, these questions scream “tell me what NOT to do so I won’t look scummy.”

I don’t like Park’s answers to the questions. They are very chopped answers and almost defeating the purpose of the questions by not allowing for much discussion.
Lebowski same.
Jerbs same.

Glass brings up my thoughts exactly about answering the questions. AWESOME.

Aaah’s comment about town being fun-sided make me think he’s town.

Just remembered Krazy didn’t answer his own questions…
He’s also jumping on an opportunistic wagon that doesn’t have any backing.

I do like Quaroth’s post which shows some of the most analysis in the game thus far. I do think his vote is weak, though.

This is a good reason to vote chkflip. There’s nothing pro-town about doing something scummy and then turning around and saying “well I did it on purpose!”

As of now (page 5), Krazy and chkflip are my top two choices.

[Krazy]

@Krazy - if you weren't sure whether Glass' original vote on you was a joke or not, why didn't you just ask him about that earlier?

You also seem to have a pretty well thought-out case on Glass, which makes it significantly worse that you didn't bring it up earlier. As a townie, why the heck would you keep your suspicions hidden like that?

LOL what are you talking about, that's not a good case against Glass. I didn't ask because it was meaningless to ask if it's a joke or not; whether he pursued it later on once the lurkers became more active would make clear whether it was a joke or not and also the intentions behind it.

I'm increasingly surprised that you're even willing to entertain the possibility that my "all of the above " was a scumslip. Either you're getting really dense this game or you are reaching really, really hard.

The quality of your assessments right now is really bugging me, so I'm going to go ahead and:

unvote; vote Crazy.

[DeathRowKitty]

Through page 2, the most suspicious thing I see is Krazy's awkward tunnel on Crazy. Bad gut on aaah, but not sure if that's because he's scum or just because he's aaah. Also of note that Krazy's RQS questions seem to have killed discussion a bit. That doesn't actually make Krazy scummy, but I always like taking an opportunity to point out that random questions don't work.

-How screwed is the town?
town are not screwed. town is fun sided as well, but always being VT is boring.

I've skipped ahead about half a page and still no one's commented on this. Ignoring the second half of it, "town is fun sided as well" sounds distinctly scum-motivated, but I can't tell if he was not-so-softclaiming vanilla. I'm going with gut here and saying scummy.

In the meantime, Quaroath's repetition of his RL reason for not posting sets off some bells. His content post seems kind of nit-picky, but meh.

omg aaah and wizrak are going to make me pull my hair out -.-

AND SPEAK OF THE DEVIL, what the hell is going on here. Nothing changed in those 37 minutes except someone calling for his wagon. This is particularly disturbing considering I have a town read on him up to this point.

All of the lurkers are night-kill bait

Wut

Getting the feeling around the start of page 6 aaah might be town.

Interesting that chkflip seems to be the default wagon here. My read on him is pretty null.

*watches the same 4 people post over and over*

Aaah’s comment about town being fun-sided make me think he’s town.

How? That sounds 9001% more like scum talking about being town than town talking about being town. (Also, hi)

Vote: Krazy

Quite fitting that I get around to voting him right as he votes the most obv-town player.

[smashbro_of_the_SSS]

i could see people referring back to something that may have been looked over earlier, but adds to a case later. People go back and say "oh, hey, this looked innocent at the time, but now that x has flipped scum/town it might make a connection. I don't believe anyone would make a case solely on that sort of thing

So..... How is it scummy? [/quote]

I see it as trying to start something by bringing everyone else's attention to what could be considered scummy, and then only continuing with it if there is enough people to support that wagon. It wasn't going back per se, but that he might have been trying to test and see everyone's opinions while being non committal himself.


It's good that replacements are coming in, and while it will take a little bit to get a read on them, I'm liking them. Now, Krazy, why did you vote Crazy? Looking at your post, it looks very much like an OMGUS.

The quality of your assessments right now is really bugging me, so I'm going to go ahead and:

unvote; vote Crazy.

It might just be me, but I'm reading this as "your view of me is wrong, so I'm going to vote you." How should I be taking this then? Or is this about right? Because this doesn't look like much of a reason to vote Crazy.

[Crazy]

LOL what are you talking about, that's not a good case against Glass. I didn't ask because it was meaningless to ask if it's a joke or not; whether he pursued it later on once the lurkers became more active would make clear whether it was a joke or not and also the intentions behind it.

I actually didn't say it was good; I said it was "well thought-out." Honestly, this feels like just another lame excuse, since there really was no reason NOT to call Glass on it immediately. Just like your other lame excuses that I called you out on earlier:

Like this: "The thin-skinned overreaction of wizrak makes me not want to play with her, so I want to lynch her. Thus I want her to be scum, so I feel better about wanting to lynch her." Does that make sense? It wasn't really a funny joke to begin with, and is just dreadful when I have to break it down. Was it really that hard to follow?

and

Honestly I was laughing so hard when I realized Aaah had voted for the same person twice without an explanation either time that I didn't deem it worth responding to.

I didn't say your earlier post was a scum-slip btw; I was asking Glass what he thought it was.

[Krazy]

I actually didn't say it was good; I said it was "well thought-out." Honestly, this feels like just another lame excuse, since there really was no reason NOT to call Glass on it immediately. Just like your other lame excuses that I called you out on earlier:

Call him out on it? I'm all for my cases being "well thought-out" but that wasn't a case, that was a discussion. You'll notice my vote was not on Glass. That's because I wasn't calling Glass out. I was engaging him to clarify a point of murkiness. It seems that you want to not cast blame on people yourself, but instead characterize other people as casting blame to do your dirty work for you.

Like this: "The thin-skinned overreaction of wizrak makes me not want to play with her, so I want to lynch her. Thus I want her to be scum, so I feel better about wanting to lynch her." Does that make sense? It wasn't really a funny joke to begin with, and is just dreadful when I have to break it down. Was it really that hard to follow?

Yeah and I still don't get why you didn't understand that when I first made the point, that I had to even break it down for you is just disgusting. Again, this is you wanting to take something to say as though I'm pursuing a "case" on Wizrak. I pursue a case on someone when I am convinced of their guilt and thus try to get them lynched. Apparently anytime anyone says anything to anyone, however, is in your mind someone pursuing a case on that player.

Honestly I was laughing so hard when I realized Aaah had voted for the same person twice without an explanation either time that I didn't deem it worth responding to.

What exactly are you trying to say here? That Aaah is scummy because he can't remember who his vote is on? Perhaps you're taking a page from DRK here and going to say it's obvscum? Because it's not.

[Krazy]

It might just be me, but I'm reading this as "your view of me is wrong, so I'm going to vote you." How should I be taking this then? Or is this about right? Because this doesn't look like much of a reason to vote Crazy.

OMGUS would be a vote on a player because they voted them. I don't care about Crazy voting me, what is bothering me about his posts is how he takes to want anything I say and characterize it as me placing blame on someone. This is the same player who, during an active discussion, will hold back his own thoughts because he wants to see how it plays out, and who doesn't want to do his own dirty work.

[Krazy]

Through page 2, the most suspicious thing I see is Krazy's awkward tunnel on Crazy. Bad gut on aaah, but not sure if that's because he's scum or just because he's aaah. Also of note that Krazy's RQS questions seem to have killed discussion a bit. That doesn't actually make Krazy scummy, but I always like taking an opportunity to point out that random questions don't work.

I'm pretty sure that the mass exodus from the game killed discussion, actually, DRK.

All of the lurkers are night-kill bait

Wut

What is unclear about this? If a player has no opinions on anything or any player then he is basically a free kill for the scum. If a player is killed at night and their death provides absolutely no information whatsoever other than the flip, then that is a free kill.

Getting the feeling around the start of page 6 aaah might be town.

I would ask for a reason for this but I know from experience that you never explain any view of any player ever.

*watches the same 4 people post over and over*

That's what happens when for half a week there's only 4 people in the game.

Vote: Krazy

Quite fitting that I get around to voting him right as he votes the most obv-town player.

I love how you spend the entire post talking about other people and then vote me.

Also, obv-town is such a ridiculous assessment of a player for literally your first post of content that I am literally gagging right now from how banal you're being.

[Krazy]

He’s also jumping on an opportunistic wagon that doesn’t have any backing.

And how exactly would you characterize the content of your predecessor and their contribution to this game?

[DeathRowKitty]

What is unclear about this? If a player has no opinions on anything or any player then he is basically a free kill for the scum. If a player is killed at night and their death provides absolutely no information whatsoever other than the flip, then that is a free kill.

Do you often see scum killing lurkers?

I would ask for a reason for this but I know from experience that you never explain any view of any player ever.

Hard feelings much? I give sufficient reasons for my initial reads and then bring things up as I see them. If you're looking for a post-and-a-half dedicated to a case on a player, you're out of luck. No one reads long cases. I'm not arguing this point with you again.

I love how you spend the entire post talking about other people and then vote me.

Heh, I honestly didn't realize I mentioned you so little in that post. I kept coming across your posts and thinking, "ok, Krazy is scum" and thought it would be counterproductive to point so many posts out. Turns out all I actually mentioned was my RVS suspicion of you.

Also, obv-town is such a ridiculous assessment of a player for literally your first post of content that I am literally gagging right now from how banal you're being.

Except my first content post was on the first 9 pages of the game. If you accept that players can be scum after 9 pages, you should be willing to accept that players can also be town after 9 pages.

[Crazy]

Call him out on it? I'm all for my cases being "well thought-out" but that wasn't a case, that was a discussion. You'll notice my vote was not on Glass. That's because I wasn't calling Glass out. I was engaging him to clarify a point of murkiness. It seems that you want to not cast blame on people yourself, but instead characterize other people as casting blame to do your dirty work for you.

Okay, so it wasn't a "case;" I don't care what you call it. It was a point that led to discussion; there was no pro-town reason to delay it. It's pretty dang obvious that you found post #148 from Glass at least

mildly

suspicious, so why did you totally ignore it at that time and wait until Glass attacked YOU in order to bring it out?

I'll explain my FoS on Glass once he answers my question.

[Crazy]

On a total random tangent:

@Jerbs

- If you take any random person in the game, they will have a 40% chance of being scum from your perspective (assuming you're town). What are the odds of Krazy being scum?

[Crazy]

Totally "interesting" fact right here:

In 10 posts, chkflip has posted

1,049

words. In all that wordiness, he has posted exactly

zero

reads on ANYBODY. And this is the guy that was stressing out about starting discussion in the RVS...

So is this "notable" or is this just "dismissible?"

[Krazy]

Do you often see scum killing lurkers?

Yes.

I'm not arguing this point with you again.

You never argued a point with me on any subject in any way at any time. As for hard feelings, I don't blame anyone but myself for the way the last game turned out, but no matter what side of the fence I was on or pretending to be on, at no point did I actually enjoy conversing with you. Town or not, you strike me as a very rude player. Honestly as soon as you joined the game I seriously considered just /outing then and there, and still haven't actually made up my mind on that matter.

Except my first content post was on the first 9 pages of the game. If you accept that players can be scum after 9 pages, you should be willing to accept that players can also be town after 9 pages.

I suppose. But in what situation is simply saying a player is "obvtown" actually productive?

[Glass]

Welcome DRK!

Well it wasn't a very serious attack, as I said earlier, it seemed like you were just kidding at first.

O_o

So Glass, I can't exactly figure out what you think Krazy's post #180 is. Do you think it was a scumslip? Krazy just not reading your post? Or do you buy his current excuse that he was commenting on how your points about him seemed mutually exclusive?

Don't really feel like answering this question since you totally ignored my last one to you, but whatever:
I don't even get why krazy would bother to leave a single "What if I am scum?" line, so I would have to opt that he did not reading my post sufficiently. I am sure that you can verify that he does not give direct answers to your questions (of course you classify it as backpedaling).

Also, a tribute to this:

as for me, thanks for giving no reason, but why throw me on there? I was on v/la.

That is my bad, actually. I will downplay my mistake by saying you didn't bold your v/la announcement

I'll explain my FoS on Glass once he answers my question.

Looking forward to it.

singer wrote:Aaah’s comment about town being fun-sided make me think he’s town.

How? That sounds 9001% more like scum talking about being town than town talking about being town. (Also, hi)

I have no idea where either of you are getting this from, I totally took it as null.

Krazy thinking that scum kill lurkers is truly lame.
Another possible scum = jerbs, active lurking entire game, even chk surpasses him in terms of actual content.

[DeathRowKitty]

You never argued a point with me on any subject in any way at any time. As for hard feelings, I don't blame anyone but myself for the way the last game turned out, but no matter what side of the fence I was on or pretending to be on, at no point did I actually enjoy conversing with you. Town or not, you strike me as a very rude player. Honestly as soon as you joined the game I seriously considered just /outing then and there, and still haven't actually made up my mind on that matter.

Looking back now, I didn't actually bother arguing that point with you last time. My mistake >.>

Game aside for a second, I'm generally fairly abrupt with my scum reads (I've had too much experience arguing with scum reads to have the patience for long, drawn-out arguments), but I wasn't meaning to be rude about it. I do think your view of it from last game might be a bit biased due to our positions, but I'll try to be a bit nicer about things.

I suppose. But in what situation is simply saying a player is "obvtown" actually productive?

It was meant as a nice little cherry on top of my vote for you. It was too much of a coincidence that you were voting for the player I had by far the strongest town read on for me to pass up pointing out.

[Krazy]

Game aside for a second, I'm generally fairly abrupt with my scum reads (I've had too much experience arguing with scum reads to have the patience for long, drawn-out arguments), but I wasn't meaning to be rude about it. I do think your view of it from last game might be a bit biased due to our positions, but I'll try to be a bit nicer about things.

Well fair enough then. Wasn't expecting that cordial of a response! Thank you.

I suppose. But in what situation is simply saying a player is "obvtown" actually productive?

It was meant as a nice little cherry on top of my vote for you. It was too much of a coincidence that you were voting for the player I had by far the strongest town read on for me to pass up pointing out.

I was leaning town on Crazy for a while, and I do give him credit for actively engaging a lot of players, but his side-lining my discussion with Glass and then his weird projecting about who I suspect has begun to dissuade me from that reading. It's mostly the last three pages that have begun to shift my views, so perhaps I can understand why if you're reading all nine pages in one go that you'd be leaning town on him based on how he was acting in the first six.

Krazy thinking that scum kill lurkers is truly lame.

Seems like I'm in the minority on this particular point. Obviously scum do not always and only kill lurkers, but since when do they patently not? I swear about 50% of night-kills I've seen both here and on other sites have been on the least-active players, if not outright lurkers.

[Crazy]

Don't really feel like answering this question since you totally ignored my last one to you, but whatever:

What question are you referring to?

This one?

You are voting for krazy though...
What's up?

I answered that, in that I was suspicious of both of you, and I didn't see it that if one of you was scum then the other was automatically town.

Or this one?

Why wait until now to bring this point up?

Which I might not have directly answered but I thought I implied that it was because I didn't want to derail the Krazy wagon.

[Crazy]

My FoS on Glass was because of his reaction to Krazy's post #191.

Glass' reason for voting Krazy was pretty weak to begin with, and then in post #191 Krazy basically destroyed that reason entirely. When I saw Krazy make that post, I immediately wondered how Glass would react to it. I expected a townie to at least be

slightly

taken aback by it.

Needless to say, Glass wasn't taken aback at all and instead he just mindlessly started going after Krazy more than he ever had before.

And the fact that Glass is still sticking by THIS argument after all this makes me even more suspicious of him.

I don't even get why krazy would bother to leave a single "What if I am scum?" line, so I would have to opt that he did not reading my post sufficiently

For the rest of you that don't understand my point here, see Krazy's posts #191 or #194. It's blatantly obvious to me that Krazy

did

read Glass' post #148.

So what am I saying, exactly? Glass' reason for voting Krazy was weak to begin with, and yet he still stuck by it even when Krazy totally proved him wrong.