Metropolis: Revisited [Game Over]

[Toogeloo]

NOOOPE GOTTA DO IT, MAN.

DAYSHOOT: TOOGY

Claiming Day SK?

[Kise]

You can't strike me so what's the difference?

[Friend]

Hey Kise, why do you think Toogeloo's strike was more scummy than stupid?

[Kise]

There's 14 (13?) players playing to the town's win condition. The chances are high as hell that both the players to your left and right are scum. Entering a game with this much filth should immediately light a fire under your ass to keep yourself in line. Toog was not careful with his strike, and recently admitted that he understands the mechanics of the game, yet he's screwing town over (everyone, really) with a strike that essentially gridlocks the moves we can finalize at the end of the day.

Plain and simple, that is what makes him scum for the strike. It's not a stupid move when he admits to knowing the mechanics because he was fully conscious of what he was doing. Honestly, with balls like that, Toog must be the damn DSK himself.

[Kise]

^Basically, RC, I want a pat on the back if I called that right.

[Friend]

I still can't shake my feeling that the strike is a complete null-tell. It's anti-town and stupid, but those things != scummy, necessarily.

[Hrezs]

You were tempted to Strike Toog in response to his action . . . but he's not even your top candidate for a Psudeo-Vote? Run that one by me again?

It was more a response for stupidity, in reality i see it as a null tell. I wasn't serious going to strike him, tried to make that clear with the second half of my post.

Furthermore: I'm not disputing that there are potential benefits in keeping track of who's not Psudeo-Voting. I was questioning your motives in coming in with that post the way you did.

It was right after someone made a votals list, so I figured it was a good time to compile it. No real reason to put it off.

[Toogeloo]

The chances are high as hell that both the players to your left and right are scum.

Exactly the reason why allowing a majority of players to control how we strike is a BAD IDEA. Voting serves no purpose this game other than to allow civilians to be manipulated. I did fully expect backlash though, hence the reason I stated the RDS was going to end with my Strike.

As I said before, it was a gut shot, and with the amount of anti-town in the game, I am taking my chances with almost a coin flip. If you decide my way isn't what you want, my Strike being used isn't a like we just lost the game; we aren't in LyLo, so stop flipping out over it. It's done, so you can live with it, you can do something about it, or you can do something with it.

[Hrezs]

I dont see any talk about the strike format in the first post, why are people assuming Toog's strike won't count?

[Hrezs]

The chances are high as hell that both the players to your left and right are scum.

Exactly the reason why allowing a majority of players to control how we strike is a BAD IDEA. Voting serves no purpose this game other than to allow civilians to be manipulated. I did fully expect backlash though, hence the reason I stated the RDS was going to end with my Strike.

As I said before, it was a gut shot, and with the amount of anti-town in the game, I am taking my chances with almost a coin flip. If you decide my way isn't what you want, my Strike being used isn't a like we just lost the game; we aren't in LyLo, so stop flipping out over it. It's done, so you can live with it, you can do something about it, or you can do something with it.

Just because ~50% of the game is scum doesn't mean we can't reach a consensus. The biggest scum team is 4 players and everyone is aiming to kill at least 6 others players (discluding town).

[Kublai Khan]

@Kublai: I dislike people who set up their vote for the next day.

Let me get this straight. I called out Toogeloo for his bad play and voted Wraith because of his bad strategy... Are you interpreted that as "Kublai Khan is setting up next day lynches"?

It's absolutely amazing how much scumminess you've packed into one little line.

A) Misrepresenting: I never stated I was trying to lynch either.
B) What is scummy about wanting to setup multiple lynches. There are 10 scum in this game. We are nipple-deep in scum.
C) You ignored that I also called out Magua.
D) You ignored that Lady Lambdadelta made a very similar post here that you overlooked.

unvote
Vote: bunnylover

I'm glad you enjoyed it. Please, tell me which part you liked more: the part where I questioned something I found scummy, or the part where I gave my reactions to other people's posts.

Also, I'm quite serious on this Hrezs wagon. Starts with "Tempted to strike Toogeloo for that strike", ends with "I believe that we should find some sort of consensus before placing strikes." These two thoughts, they are not connected, since if he actually believed the second, he wouldn't've said the first.

I like you already, Magua.

I also like your Hrezs read. What do you think of bunnylover-scum?

@GummyBear: Quit posting in italics. It's annoying.

[Bunnylover]

@Kublai:
A) Isn't the point of a vote to lynch someone? Just because you didn't go, "I WANT THIS PERSON LYNCHED" doesn't mean you didn't want that person lynched. You said yourself the wagon was "worthwhile" which to me read as you would be willing to lynch Wraith.
You were making your stand on Toog in that entire post without even mentioning Wraith except for 8 words. To me it would make more sense to place a vote on Toog if you had a lot to say about him more then a vote on Wraith when you had very little to say.
B) Just because their are 10 scum in this game doesn't mean I should ignore people setting up lynches. Thanks for admitting that you are setting up lynches. How do you know Wraith/Toog will flip scum?
C) Don't understand it. Have you relooked at this thread to see that more then one person was opposed to breaking the game, yet your vote is only on Wraith because other people are voting you.
D) Shifting the spotlight now? LLD FOS Toog and clearly stated that she wasn't sure about Toog action other then it was Anti Town. You didn't make a stance at all. When votes start piling up on Toog you can just come out and say, "Oh I wanted Toog to be lynched Day 1 too!" or when people forgive Toog for his action you really don't have to do anything because you never took a stance if that was scummy, anti-town, null, or whatever.

[ThAdmiral]

Hey, you know what makes me really enjoy games? Winning. Do you know why people try to figure out if they can game-break games? Because they are looking for the optimal way to win.

AGar, are you going to sit there and tell me you never visited the special warp room in Super Mario Brothers? Or used the Contra Code? Typed "iddqd"? Used Game Genie? A crack? Opened an editor?

Liar.

Do you also get that not

everybody

plays to win, and only to win?
To put it another way - do you

always

use god mode cheats in games?

For all those who hate my strike... fuck you.

As if you couldn't predict what the response would be. You're doing this just to get attention. Congratulations on succeeding.

I still can't shake my feeling that the strike is a complete null-tell. It's anti-town and stupid, but those things != scummy, necessarily.

Yes, but it's so obviously anti-town and stupid that it goes all the way round past "reckless town" to being scum again, imo.

The chances are high as hell that both the players to your left and right are scum.

Exactly the reason why allowing a majority of players to control how we strike is a BAD IDEA.

But it's not like the multiple scum factions are going to be working together solely against town. They all want to hunt each other down just as much as the town does.

Furthermore with that large a percentage of scum, as you point out, isn't it much more likely for us to hit one with a reasoned vote and strike than with a coin-flip?

[Toogeloo]

For all those who hate my strike... fuck you.

As if you couldn't predict what the response would be. You're doing this just to get attention. Congratulations on succeeding.

It's true. But there are silver linings to my intentions as well.

[Albert B. Rampage]

[ThAdmiral]

Your avatar scares me Albert.
Always has.

[Baby Spice]

Not voting(13): Baby Spice,

Awaiting Hydra activation. name: 'Gaby'

[Exe]

Sorry for the absence.
Toog is being obstinate and dense, but honestly I don't see scum doing something so blatantly anti-town. I'm filing him under "to-be-ignored," much like ABR is.

Hrezs is posting nothing more than the most basic levels of analysis. Classic scum-strat there. I pretty much agree with what has been said.

Vote: Hrezs

Bunny is acting way more suspicious than my only other shared game, in which BL was town.

FoS

with an extra serving of IGMEOU.

Do you also get that not everybody plays to win, and only to win?
To put it another way - do you always use god mode cheats in games?

You're avoiding the point really, and it sounds like you're really rushing in for the Wraith defense. If/when Wraith flips scum, I'm looking at you next.

More later when it's not 5 AM >.>

[Untrod Tripod]

ARGH REAL LIFE HAPPENED.

Sorry. Will get stuff up tomorrow.

[ThAdmiral]

Do you also get that not everybody plays to win, and only to win?
To put it another way - do you always use god mode cheats in games?

You're avoiding the point really, and it sounds like you're really rushing in for the Wraith defense. If/when Wraith flips scum, I'm looking at you next.

I don't think I'm avoiding the point - some people think not wanting to break the game is a scumtell, I don't. It's a playstyle preference.

Also you forgot to mention Agar who according to your logic must be in the same "scumgroup" with me an wraith.

[AGar]

Friend: I have a null-read on Wraith at the moment. He's done nothing to excite me so far.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: ThAdmiral

Nice deflection there.

[ThAdmiral]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: ThAdmiral

Nice deflection there.

I wasn't deflecting. I was pointing out a flaw in his logic, and also showing that he was being inconsistent.

[AGar]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: ThAdmiral

Nice deflection there.

I wasn't deflecting. I was pointing out a flaw in his logic, and also showing that he was being inconsistent.

That's deflecting.

[Magua]

Pseudo-Vote Count 1.3

With 24 players alive, it will take 15 strikes to lynch someone.

Wraith (3): Albert B. Rampage, MagnaofIllusion, LadyLambdaDelta
Hrezs (3): Magua, Plum, Exe
DrippingGoofball (2): ThAdmiral, Untrod Tripod
MagnaofIllusion (1): Toogeloo**
Toogeloo (1): KageLord
KageLord (1): Friend
BunnyLover (1): Kublai Khan
ThAdmiral (1): AGar

** = placed a strike

Not voting(11): Kise, DrippingGoofball, ObliviousDruidMuncher, Nachomamma8, Hrezs, curiouskarmadog, AlmasterGM (V/LA 15-20 March), Baby Spice, Bunnylover, GummyBear, Wraith

[KageLord]

On the Wraith issue: Being against game-breaking is not a scum tell. Other than that stuff he hasn't said much, so I have no read on him personally.

I think Toogeloo's strike wasn't scummy. Acting impulsively is a null-tell. The people jumping all over him for it I find more scummy, CKD/Hresz/KageLord being prime examples. KageLord's vote post was ridiculously vague.

Kage, which do you think it is? Bad town play, or a scummy move? The vote implies that it's the latter, but it seems to me like you just mentioned the first so you'd have an excuse for if/when he flips town.

UNVOTE: Wraith
VOTE: KageLord

I still suspect Wraith, though - not just cause he's worrying about the setup/gamebreaking, but because he's done nothing else worth mentioning except chide Toogeloo for the strike (which is an easy way to buy yourself town points).

Okay, so first question: What do you think of Toog's strike now? Still think he was "acting impulsively" and thus a null-tell?

To answer your question: I don't know which it was. The "excuse for if/when he flips town" thing is bs. You can say that for pretty much anything I say (as my playstyle is not to fake being sure about everything). For proof, check out my town games and see that that same thing has been said to me in all of them that I remember (even when my read was dead-on). If he is lynched and he flips town and I was one of the people to strike him, I bear full responsibility for being wrong.

Also, votes in this game mean almost nothing. It is simply a way to keep track of who people find the scummiest (and on page 3, the reason for Toog was as good as any I could see). In fact, I think that we should require everyone to have a vote placed. It's an easy way to require everyone to pick a top scumread at all times.

Toog is being obstinate and dense, but honestly I don't see scum doing something so blatantly anti-town. I'm filing him under "to-be-ignored," much like ABR is.

I don't get how saying "it's a dumb scum strat" (paraphrasing here) is a real defense of Toog's actions. Wouldn't "it's a dumb town strat" be an equal attack against it? All it says is that it was a dumb move either way. And since Toog wasn't so dumb in the other game I played with him, my best guess is that Toog-scum made the move hoping for one of two results: 1. People agree and town becomes disorganized. 2. People react mostly how they did end up reacting ("Toog is dumb. Let's ignore him and look at other people."). Isn't being ignored ideal for scum?

The chances are high as hell that both the players to your left and right are scum.

Exactly the reason why allowing a majority of players to control how we strike is a BAD IDEA. Voting serves no purpose this game other than to allow civilians to be manipulated. I did fully expect backlash though, hence the reason I stated the RDS was going to end with my Strike.

As I said before, it was a gut shot, and with the amount of anti-town in the game, I am taking my chances with almost a coin flip. If you decide my way isn't what you want, my Strike being used isn't a like we just lost the game; we aren't in LyLo, so stop flipping out over it. It's done, so you can live with it, you can do something about it, or you can do something with it.

So you assume that scum will be able to somehow manipulate the majority of votes without ever being detected doing it? And your solution is for us to strike at whoever our gut says is scum, making a no-lynch not only possible, but probable?

And you think that the best choice for your coin-flip is one of the strongest players in the game (regardless of alignment)?