The Mafia with the Hydras - Game Over!

[TheButtonmen]

A New Day A New Vote Count:

FrogErgoSum (3): DaSpot, Greymarble, Final Destination
BeaverWeasel (2): Balam, YosFlavouredCayke
Final Destination (1): FrogErgoSum

[Balam]

(Equinox)

I'm acting in my capacity as posting head here. We believe Frogito Ergo Sum is scum.

*hops*

Unvote, Vote: Frogito Ergo Sum

To cite one of the heads:

I know we never called him town but we thought he was very town, aka our stance on FES being scum yesterday.

Bullshit. This is a lie. You were voting YosCayke and pushing their wagon for most of Day 1 and you were still doing it at the end.

Final Destination was talking about Untrod Stranger, not YosFlavouredCayke. This is a terrible twist. In fact, here's the link to Final Destination's post, which conveniently quotes a post about Untrod Stranger. Note the full first paragraph there.

We're happy we got a wagon on BeaverWeasel (which we're now defecting) but uncomfortable with YosFlavouredCayke shooting down Final Destination's case against Frogito Ergo Sum.

[Frogito Ergo Sum]

Hmm. I obviously leaped to a conclusion there, but it's ambiguous - US is tangential to that what he's talking about and the supposed relation between our alignment and YosCayke's is clearly established in FD's posting. In any case it's still a lie - at the end of the day he was advocating that YFC was scum and that by associative tells we weren't.

[Balam]

(Equinox)

Personal post rather than committee post.

Looking through Final Destination's iso, Frogito Ergo Sum is correct in that Untrod Stranger had nothing to do with Final Destination's read of Frogito Ergo Sum and YosFlavouredCayke based on their Day 1 posting. What's up with that, AlmasterGM and Fate?

I have a question for you, too, Frogito Ergo Sum.

Bad =/= scummy.

This is in reference to your comment about BeaverWeasel's 323. If you did not use "bad" to mean "scummy," what did you mean? You never really elaborated on this. Further, since you're on an entirely different wagon altogether, I'd like your thoughts on the other wagons.

Nothing changed between the 6th and the 9th other than we felt a case had been built against US that we felt needed to be followed through on. Also after doing some rereading this head finds the Yos/Cayke disagreement leading to a last minute hop onto the US wagon to be very controversial indeed.

"Very controversial indeed." Can you define this term "controversial" for me, please? This doesn't tell me anything.

Copper, how far along are you on reading? It's been a couple of days.

[Final Destination]

I know we never called him town but we thought he was very town, aka our stance on FES being scum yesterday.

Bullshit.

This is a lie. You were voting YosCayke and pushing their wagon for most of Day 1 and you were still doing it at the end.

Its not a lie, but you're right. We spent more time on AIM saying "holy fuck both Yos and FES are scummy, who do we vote?" than we did in thread. We figured ONE of you two was scum, and were fence-sitting on that issue, but by NO MEANS AT ALL were we going to say "well if Yos is scum->FES town->>>>US=scum" because FES was scummy enough in his own right that US was townish for attacking him.

Ah AGM found it:

Aka: We've come to the conclusion that if only one of FES/YOS is scum, its Yos, and that MAYBE just MAYBE FES is town that actually is bullheaded and stupid enough to think we're scum for shitty reasons, but at least he BELIEVES IT and is willing to ARGUE IT. Whereas Yos dodged every chance he can to elaborate on why we're scum, or to colloborate with his Ethersextownbuddy on our alignment.

P.S.:
FES, get your act together if you're town. Seriously.

[AGM Approved]

MAYBE FES is town, not "FES IS TOWN US IS SCUM" that was never our stance. We knew it was implausible you were BOTH scum (besides are read on both of you being scum) but at that time we wanted to go the YosCayke direction and gave you some ROPE to pull yourself/hangyourself/be useful.

You have taken said rope and tied it around you head and said LOLHERPDERP. This has tipped our scumreadscales to you over YosCayke for the SCUMZORS on our wagon.

Question: Do you disagree that #323 and #328 are bad and good posts respectively?

I have a gut town read on #23. Partly because I think I know who part of that hydra is.

yes #328 is goodposting because GreyMarble is townish from our reads.

But ok... so you're saying unless you say somethign CONTROVERSIAL that I DISAGREE with we can't find you scum? That seems to be what you're implying, that because "well what I SAID wasn't wrong, was it?" that somehow constitutes as a defense of TOWN motivation in your posts. You're wrong, and scum.

We intended to get in a good post (i.e. not a one-liner like that one) later, but then the Day ended.

Ok, then NIGHT ended, and was THIS your good post?:

however we (and particularly the Fonz head) think that the QT-posting thing, given that it would likely be disastrous for scum, is an enormous towntell.

Isn't "Quoting your hydra qt is fine." just the naïve go-to position? We think it's a town tell because it suggests there are things in the qt that they want to quote, but not because they held the wrong position re: hydra QTs.

Vote: Final Destination

FUCK NO.

Die scum.

<3
Fate and AGM.

[AlmasterGM]

[AGM]

Hmm. I obviously leaped to a conclusion there, but it's ambiguous - US is tangential to that what he's talking about and the supposed relation between our alignment and YosCayke's is clearly established in FD's posting. In any case it's still a lie - at the end of the day he was advocating that YFC was scum and that by associative tells we weren't.

Associative tells is the key word - you were still being a total scumbag, but we had doubts your duo would be scum together, and our read on Yos was stronger so we temporarily put you in the "not worrying about it" category. But then Yos finished the day with a strong town pull and you finished by being even more scummy. So that read flip-flopped. We just never got the chance to post it because there was a quickwagon derrrrp.

And then the morning hit, and we made our stance abundantly clear. So stop acting like "OMG FD is making stuff up!" Our advocacy is 100% clear ALL. THE. TIME.

Also, it's really telling how bad your vote is that it's all predicated on "yeah, but's." E.g., You say something that's wrong, somebody tells you its wrong, and then you go, "Yeah, but what about THISSS!"

[FATE APPROVED]

[DaSpotthatkillsu]

^ lol, cause we couldn't tell that that post was made by AGM

Also, I wanted to ask DaSpot about this:

.... you all are idiots.

He said this after the hammer, but before the alignment reveal. Re-reading his earlier posts, he did at one point briefly mention that he thought US was pro-town, but he never really tried to defend him or argue against the wagon, even though he was around while it was building up. It just seems odd to me; DaSpot, if you guys were THAT sure that the US wagon was going to be a bad one, why didn't you try harder to stop it?

-Yos

My other head hasn't answered me yet, so he might give his own reasons, but for me it seemed like we were doing everything we could to stop it by trying to prove FES was scum. To be perfectly honest, though, I wasn't on the site much around when US was being voted a lot, and his lynch was a complete shock to me.

[Copper]

Moderator:

Please place the deadline, "to-lynch" thresholds, and a list of players currently not voting in every vote count. It takes minimal effort and makes your game extremely onerous to play when they are lacking.

---

Balam:

An explanation of our lacking presence: we had decided pre-game to have this hydra be a one head posts style hydra. Our inspiration for this was the high quality of play from copper, a well known hydra.

Thank you for the endorsement.

And actually, we are not a "one head posts" hydra. We do strive for a similarity in posting style and convergence in reads so that reading us is the same as reading a normal player.

Balams style of one head posting had some bad early game lurking. However, this is fairly understandable and more of a null tell than anything. It’s very easy for one person to fall behind, and it’s doubly so if they are not allowed to call "V/LA" or "busy with other games". Without recourse to these as an anonymous hydra, we have to be a little more lenient on the single-head flaking.

Interestingly, after claiming their heads to help explain their activity failure, it has been exclusively Equinox posting in the thread. The optimistic interpretation is that Equinox has found more time and is going back to being the "posting head." However, now that we know the identities of the involved players, I’m curious as to why Rayfrost and AGar are not posting in thread.

Equinox’s running thoughts wall seems unlikely to be coming from a scum perspective. However, the simple truth is that there really isn’t much to Balam besides Equinox’s walls. The recent post 360 is good, and we hope to see more posts like it.

Balam will be a very powerful force if town, but by the same token we have to be careful with them. We have a town read on Balam, but a posting style like Equiniox's is going to look town regardless of alignment, and we have to ensure we aren't snared by that bias.

---

Beaver Weasel:

There has been extremely little from this slot, and what has been posted is uniformly terrible. The worst is his ISO 10. He mentions that US has an "incrediscum" post, but instead of voting for the incrediscum post, he asks for someone else to rundown the case for him. We find the most logical interpretation to be thus: Beaver Weasel wants to get on the US mislynch wagon, but isn’t willing to risk his ass for it, so he is loudly mentioning that he agrees with it but is waiting for someone else to write a "case" so that when US flips town he can subsequently distance himself from the mislynch by blaming the charismatic X who compiled the case. Sadly, with UB’s hammer, he got away with responding, "hmmm", and we never got to see how events would unfold if someone had indeed compiled the case.

---

DaSpot

- The first thing that stands out here is some slight hypocrisy between, say, post 70 and post 86. There's something unwholesome about a disjointed hydra complaining about the lack of unity in someone else. That said, post 172 had a sincere, distressed feel to it, which stops us from outright calling this slot scum just yet.

In general though, when reading through DaSpot, we're confronted with the idea that we have a hydra that cannot or will not make a comment for fear of upsetting the other head. Unlike a player like, say, UB, where we have this clearly chaotic brand of getting a point across, DaSpot is fighting amongst itself trying to sell their ideas instead of earnestly scumhunting. Not townielike. Possibly a bit sufferable to the constraints of a hydra, but we find ourselves doubting that proposition more often than not.

---

Final Destination:

We strongly dislike their ISO 5:

I do approve of the Dana wagon, and was not aware we were getting into serious mode.

Fate and AlmasterGM both strike us as players who do not need to be told that "serious mode" has begun.

However, in a strange reversal, their ISO 6 has a town frustration that’s difficult to fake. Indeed, their whole plan of toning down their aggression and clearly labeling whether their thoughts are personal or shared is a town tell. Fate and AlmasterGM both have reputations for rapid fire posts and strong, sporadic aggression. They would have the freedom to fill the thread with noise, contradict eachother whenever convenient, and they could make a convincing meta case (see: Edge) that this was a null tell. I don’t see scum Fate giving up this privilege so casually.

Their recent push on FrogitoErgoSum, however, leaves a bad taste in my mouth. ISO 29 states a preference for lynching YFC over FES. Their last major post of D1 was a giant wall against YFC.

However, on D2, they voted for FES, and their post after the vote has this:

This is easily the worse vote on that terri-bad UStranger lynch. I know we never called him town but we thought he was very town, aka

our stance on FES being scum

yesterday.

ISO 29 gives a very different picture of their motivations. But now, they prefer FES over YFC, despite YFC having the worst vote on the US wagon, because "Cayke made the vote which makes me feel better." That seems like awfully specious reasoning for such a dramatic reversal. He’s now calling YFC a "pocket townbuddy" of FES. We can’t help but wonder if this switch is because YFC is now voting for someone else and FES is still voting for FD.

We wrote this prior to Final Destination’s 379. That post explains the perspective of Final Destination clearly, and we feel much better about them and their case on FES.

---

Frogito Ergo Sum:

His "I wasn’t aware I was the L-1 vote, but I am aware now." action is sensible - as long as L-1 is claimed, there’s little worry of scum quickhammers, since the trade of one town for one scum is town-favored. However, while we can understand his initial placement of the vote, his tunneling is extremely suspect. In particular, his ISO 26’s "323 is bad" makes sense, but his subsequent ISO 29 "bad =/= scummy" seems like he’s bending over backwards not to concede a point to Final Destination. It’s getting hard to believe he’s legitimately scumhunting, and much easier to think that’s he’s ‘suspecting’ Final Destination for consistency points.

Frogito: Who is your second strongest scumread?

---

Grey

- Grey's opening attack on the anonymity of BW is suspect, but he moves this vote when he no longer thinks it's serving its purpose. That's a good sign. The flow of the hydra seems almost natural as they hop wagons. They don't do it in a scummy way though, it feels like with every other post you're getting more insight into how the hydra is operating. There's a natural progression from post 173 to post 266. The US vote is not great, but the player reads that precede it brief and on point. I feel little reserve in giving them a solid townread.

---

Gummybear

- Gummy spends an extremely large portion of time in a back-and-forth with Pathetric. When reading through the game the first time, we were preparing ourselves for an inevitable case of Gummy that would serve to make up one of our first attacks in this game. Later in the game, however, Gummy seems to pick it up into gear. Post 258, for example, does seem like an earnest attempt for flagging town to re-engage with the game.

Gummy could be sort of keeping a low profile, but we don't get this sense. Of course they need to post more, but our guts have a comfortable, safe feeling.

---

Mrs. Flay (and Lord Fonzi)

No real content has come from this slot. Fonz and Gurgi are competent players; hopefully that will soon change. We're not interested in a policy lynch just for the silent Day One.

---

Unicorn Brethren:

Have you ever planned a surprise party? You’ll have dozens of people in on the secret - but they don’t all pull the weight equally, do they? That’s a recipe for disaster.

No, there’s always "the organizer." Whenever anyone has an idea about the party, they know who to call. The same person set up the plan to get them out of the house, ordered the food and drinks, planned the entertainment. There’s a reason for this: when you’re trying to keep a secret, you want as few moving parts as possible.

As far as secrets go, plotting to kill innocent townspeople is, at its’ heart, not all that different from planning a surprise party. You have a secret, and you have someone (in this case, many someones) you wish to keep it from. If Unicorn Brethren had a scum role PM, the organizer would step forward. He (I use the masculine pronoun for simplicity, but certainly Stefunny could fill this role as well as anyone) would quickly order in QT, "No posting without clearing it by me." He’d have a plan for interacting with the scumbuddies. He’d have rules about a consistent style. And he would be responsible for the majority of the posts in the thread.

What do we have instead? Unadulterated chaos. There appears to be little significant QT communication; instead, any player can apparently pick up the account and idly spam as they will. Now, ask yourself, why do you think they’re doing this?

The answer is simple. They have a town role PM, and they subscribe to the school of thought that "If you have a town role PM, any actions you take are pro-town actions."

Is this philosophy correct? No. Am I happy with their lurking and vote hoping without substance? No. Are they scum?

Absolutely not.

Scum Unicorn Brethern would not saunter in to "bringethh the hammer." Unicorn Brethren is not playing like they have a secret to hide.

---

YossarianFlavouredCayke

- With YosCayke there's a certain comfort in their ability to hit the ground running. There's a laser focus in their dislike for DaSpot and immediate recognition of UB as a somewhat bumbling townie. There's even something to be said for how they pressure FD early on as we're witnessing some attempt at scumhunting that's likely meaningful and truthful.

There are two major problems we have with YosCayke. The first being this absolute read on Patheric that's really bordering on being over-the-top. Post 166 is a good example of this, where YosCayke is not just recognizing Patheric as an obvious townie, but actually goes so far as to lambast FD for not having the same opinion. We've read over this and the surrounding posts several times, and every time we do this sticks out as awkward and clumsy.

The second is mostly contained in post 341, where we've got this idea that YosCayke is trying to distance themselves from the growing and soon-to-be hammered US. This really cannot sit well with anyone. If YosCayke takes the same aggressive approach against FD that they did yesterday, this might serve to excuse them somewhat, but the US vote is hardly what we'd consider purposeful. How are we supposed to read this? A resigned concession for the wagon to go ahead or as a firm proponent of the wagon? Are we supposed to see it as both? This is probably not as harsh of a criticism as it’s being made to seem, it could probably even be argued that we're being a bit overcritical of the slot, but Copper is not sold on the idea that YosCayke is town.

---

Vote: BeaverWeasel

[Copper]

EBWOP:

No real content has come from this slot. Fonz and Gurgi are competent players; hopefully that will soon change.

That sentence reads as us hoping that Fonz and Gurgi will soon lose their competence. Pretend we wrote this instead:

No real content has come from this slot. Fonz and Gurgi are competent players, so hopefully that will soon change.

[Final Destination]

[AGM]

Hmm. I obviously leaped to a conclusion there, but it's ambiguous - US is tangential to that what he's talking about and the supposed relation between our alignment and YosCayke's is clearly established in FD's posting. In any case it's still a lie - at the end of the day he was advocating that YFC was scum and that by associative tells we weren't.

Associative tells is the key word - you were still being a total scumbag, but we had doubts your duo would be scum together, and our read on Yos was stronger so we temporarily put you in the "not worrying about it" category. But then Yos finished the day with a strong town pull and you finished by being even more scummy. So that read flip-flopped. We just never got the chance to post it because there was a quickwagon derrrrp.

And then the morning hit, and we made our stance abundantly clear. So stop acting like "OMG FD is making stuff up!" Our advocacy is 100% clear ALL. THE. TIME.

Also, it's really telling how bad your vote is that it's all predicated on "yeah, but's." E.g., You say something that's wrong, somebody tells you its wrong, and then you go, "Yeah, but what about THISSS!"

[FATE APPROVED]

You derpa AGM.


BTW I just realized something that probably is a SIGNIFICANT difference of one letter:

This is easily the worse vote on that terri-bad UStranger lynch. I know we never called him town but we thought he was very town, a

L

a our stance on FES being scum yesterday.

That was a derpa slip that lead to the confusion of where we stand.

AKA implies that "Yeah given our stance on FES being scum yesterday"

ALA is like "to go with the FES scum read we had [in our aim chats]" its much less strong, and the implication that we were STRONG ADVOCATES OF FROG DEATH D1 isn't there.

Ala is what I meant, anyway, and I'm glad to see that my#379 also cleared things up.

Copper is :goodposting: as to be expected. Can't say I find any fault in his analysis, but I should stop talking without AGM

>_>
<_<

(AGM we might need to rethink our stance on Beaver. FES is still a stronger scum read tho)

[Balam]

Balam:

An explanation of our lacking presence: we had decided pre-game to have this hydra be a one head posts style hydra. Our inspiration for this was the high quality of play from copper, a well known hydra.

Thank you for the endorsement.

And actually, we are not a "one head posts" hydra. We do strive for a similarity in posting style and convergence in reads so that reading us is the same as reading a normal player.

Interestingly, after claiming their heads to help explain their activity failure, it has been exclusively Equinox posting in the thread. The optimistic interpretation is that Equinox has found more time and is going back to being the "posting head." However, now that we know the identities of the involved players, I’m curious as to why Rayfrost and AGar are not posting in thread.

That was my misunderstanding about you lot, then. (I was the one who brought up the concept of a committee-post hydra based upon my belief that you did so and you all seem to work smoothly, so yar). To answer your wondering about my lack of posting, it's due to the fact that I don't find my typical posing style to be conducive to smooth hydra performance / clarity of reads, and I really don't want to actively change how I naturally type things up. Instead, I just post my reads in the hydra QT. If you'd

like

me to start

spamming

posting when I feel like posting without discussing with my fellow heads, then by all means say so. Do be warned, though: it'll likely double our post count (which would be rather unfortunate, in my opinion).

I don't know Agar's reason for not posting ITT, but he seems to have planned this from after we designated equi as the posting head. He also pretty much sai he wouldn't be when he said he was one of the heads (he's also quite busy with real life stuff, etc).

[Unicorn Brethren]

Hi. The Unicorns are out for blood.

We will be happy with goring any of the following:

-DaSpotthatkillsu (<deadweight/scum)
-Greymarble (<scum)
-FinalDestination (<kickingscreamingweight)
-Mystery player (<obvscum)

[DaSpotthatkillsu]

Hello.

I'll answer questions about this hydra.

We didn't defend Untrod simply because we were focused too hard on FES. By the time we noticed the wagon on US, it was too late. Our position on FES has not changed. He is scum.

Further, this hydra has differing opinions again. this time in relation to UB. My compatriot thinks he is town simply because UB is overconfident and has 6 heads. I feel EXACTLY the opposite. UB is scum incarnate. My case is his ENTIRE ISO. 6 heads or no, overconfident or otherwise, NO PRO-TOWN PLAYER LETS OUT ANY OF THOSE POSTS WITHOUT THOUGHT. At least put in to them.

UB can still salvage this. Provided that we see detailed cases on each of his scumreads. What posts makes those four players scum? Including us?

and with that, back to talk more with my partner.

[DaSpotthatkillsu]

Also who is "mystery player"? Copper?

[GreyICE]

Hi. The Unicorns are out for blood.

We will be happy with goring any of the following:

-DaSpotthatkillsu (<deadweight/scum)
-Greymarble (<scum)
-FinalDestination (<kickingscreamingweight)
-Mystery player (<obvscum)

The unicorns are out of brains.

Copper was fucking excellent posting, <3 whoever the hell makes up that hydra.

BTW, this hydra has a natural flow because all the posts stem from a single source

[Greymarble]

Hi. The Unicorns are out for blood.

We will be happy with goring any of the following:

-DaSpotthatkillsu (<deadweight/scum)
-Greymarble (<scum)
-FinalDestination (<kickingscreamingweight)
-Mystery player (<obvscum)

The unicorns are out of brains.

Copper was fucking excellent posting, <3 whoever the hell makes up that hydra.

BTW, this hydra has a natural flow because all the posts stem from a single source

Derp

[Copper]

Hi. The Unicorns are out for blood.

We will be happy with goring any of the following:

-DaSpotthatkillsu (<deadweight/scum)

This is agreeable.

-Greymarble (<scum)
-FinalDestination (<kickingscreamingweight)
-Mystery player (<obvscum)

This is not.

Greymarble is a very likely townie, FD is a fairly likely townie, and holding "mystery players" on your list is so incredibly silly I'm almost embarrassed to engage with the point. Try something new and justify your reads.

[Copper]

That was my misunderstanding about you lot, then. (I was the one who brought up the concept of a committee-post hydra based upon my belief that you did so and you all seem to work smoothly, so yar). To answer your wondering about my lack of posting, it's due to the fact that I don't find my typical posing style to be conducive to smooth hydra performance / clarity of reads, and I really don't want to actively change how I naturally type things up. Instead, I just post my reads in the hydra QT. If you'd like me to start spamming posting when I feel like posting without discussing with my fellow heads, then by all means say so. Do be warned, though: it'll likely double our post count (which would be rather unfortunate, in my opinion).

This is a fair point. If Equinox again finds herself unable to post for a significant time period, I expect you to shoulder the burden. But if she is frequently posting and stating your thoughts to your satisfaction, then no, you are under no specific obligation to post.

BTW, this hydra has a natural flow because all the posts stem from a single source

This is an especially humorous line to accidentally post from your main account.

[YosFlavouredCayke]

There are two major problems we have with YosCayke. The first being this absolute read on Patheric that's really bordering on being over-the-top. Post 166 is a good example of this, where YosCayke is not just recognizing Patheric as an obvious townie, but actually goes so far as to lambast FD for not having the same opinion. We've read over this and the surrounding posts several times, and every time we do this sticks out as awkward and clumsy.

I think I've explained my town read on Patheric half a dozen times by this point; if you have any specific questions, I'll be glad to answer them. I would say that I'd expect most pro-town people to read Ether's attack on Gummy and think "Huh, she's probably not scum, I can't see a scum being that aggressive this early for so little personal gain here", while I'd expect a scum to look at it (especally if I'm right and both Patheric and Gummy are town) and say "Hey, there's some odd posting there, I bet I can get a mislynch through on Ether because of that, plus here's a good town v town fight going between gummy and Patheric, let's see if I can keep it going." I do think attacking Ether for those posts is something a scum is more likely to do then a town.

The second is mostly contained in post 341, where we've got this idea that YosCayke is trying to distance themselves from the growing and soon-to-be hammered US. This really cannot sit well with anyone. If YosCayke takes the same aggressive approach against FD that they did yesterday, this might serve to excuse them somewhat, but the US vote is hardly what we'd consider purposeful. How are we supposed to read this? A resigned concession for the wagon to go ahead or as a firm proponent of the wagon? Are we supposed to see it as both? This is probably not as harsh of a criticism as it’s being made to seem, it could probably even be argued that we're being a bit overcritical of the slot, but Copper is not sold on the idea that YosCayke is town.

Distance myself from US? What do you mean?

Personally, I never really was in favor of a US lynch. (In my analysis of everyone in the game, I mentioned that I thought US could be tunneling town, and marked him down as "null-ish") Cayke always was, as you can see from several of her posts.

I told Cayke before the game started that if she wants to vote someone, she should just do it; she doesn't need to ask my permission. In the same way, I vote for people without asking her permission. We actually have very similar reads on most of the people in the game, and in general, I trust her judgment; and I actually think that playing a hydra as basically a pair of masons that share one vote is generally better for the town then the "discuss everything in private and only post once you agree on everything" playstyle, even if it seems a little scitzo; it should make us easier to read, it lets us pressure different people and ask different questions, ect.

Towards the end of the day yesterday, she really wanted to vote for US, she had a very strong gut reading on him as scum, and while I still had him as basically null-ish and was never that convinced he was scum, I told her over AIM she should do what she thought was right, to vote him if and when and how she thought it was best to; my FD vote seemed to be doing absolutely nothing right then, and I thought that if she wanted to use our vote to follow her lead, she should. Although I'll admit that I didn't expect the day to end quite so suddenly after that.

(shrug) I'm guessing most heads of hydras in the game are going to sometimes have somewhat different reads on people. I don't really understand why us being honest about that in thread is a problem. If you read Cayke's posts on the subject of US (our ISO posts # 27, 28, and 29), you should be able to see where she was coming from.

-Yos

[Frogito Ergo Sum]

We're slightly baffled by the suggestion that we should be voting beaverweasel, considering we had a much stronger scum read on final destination yesterday. On the basis of a single post that we thought was a bad one, not even a scummy one (bad refers to the quality of the case, not possible motivation), we're apparently supposed to throw away everything we have on FD?

Or is the argument that someone voted for BW first, and that he's therefore a bandwagon, and we should therefore be sheeping on that wagon? Cause that's also pretty clearly dumb. (- Shanba)

The reasons we had for voting Final Destination yesterday still hold. In particular, his SHOCK and HORROR at HOW DARE PEOPLE VOTE ME is so awkward and over the top it simply doesn't look honest.

daspot's pushing on UB yesterday looks like scum going after a weak target. Unicorn brethren is a loose cannon, and probably dangerous to the town just by virtue of being totally unpredictable (see: the hammer on US - who saw THAT coming?) But we don't think he looks scummy, not at all. Plus, there's number of posts where it looks like one head is trying to reign in the other - and in particular, going from an unpopular position (UB is scum) to a popular one (FES is scum). He's probably a scumbag too.

Yoscayke is still just town. Also why would yoscaykescum spend ages buttering up pathetric then off them night 1?

[Frogito Ergo Sum]

We just never got the chance to post it because there was a quickwagon derrrrp.

And then the morning hit, and we made our stance abundantly clear. So stop acting like "OMG FD is making stuff up!" Our advocacy is 100% clear ALL. THE. TIME.

Your previous post clearly implied differently, stating a level of consistency that simply wasn't there.

Also, it's really telling how bad your vote is that it's all predicated on "yeah, but's." E.g., You say something that's wrong, somebody tells you its wrong, and then you go, "Yeah, but what about THISSS!"

If you make a mistake, your case is void!

But ok... so you're saying unless you say somethign CONTROVERSIAL that I DISAGREE with we can't find you scum? That seems to be what you're implying, that because "well what I SAID wasn't wrong, was it?" that somehow constitutes as a defense of TOWN motivation in your posts. You're wrong, and scum.

We think it's a townie's duty to point out true things. Thus, I see the truth of those statements to be pretty relevant to motivation.

Ok, then NIGHT ended, and was THIS your good post?:

*shrug* Priorities change.

[YosFlavouredCayke]

Haven't had much of a chance to read through the thread in the last couple (real life) days. I will definitely read up tomorrow during my breaks from class and post sometime that night. If it doesn't happen tomorrow, thursday for sure.

^_^

-Cayke

[Unicorn Brethren]

Hi. The Unicorns are out for blood.

We will be happy with goring any of the following:

-DaSpotthatkillsu (<deadweight/scum)
-Greymarble (<scum)
-FinalDestination (<kickingscreamingweight)
-Mystery player (<obvscum)

Modification: We will also lynch anyone we feel like lynching. Which could be any of you.

[Copper]

Perhaps you should throw a vote down before throwing out such impetuous threats.

[Lord Fonzi]

OK, we've had the opportunity to discuss our reads. Our scum suspects at this moment are gummybear, FES, and DSTKU.

Gummy: Unproductive lurker, basically. Underhanded 'accusation-but-not-really' at Reckamonic for making a 'busy, content soon' post then does the exact same thing in next post. No real sense that they are interested in scumhunting for its own sake rather than to deflect attention. What gives us somewhat pause is that thirteen days without posting doesn't say tactical lurker, it says 'not been able to find a way to make the hydra work and flaking out.'

Spot: Our big problem with this hydra is its insistence in using 'poor logic is not a scumtell' defense for themselves, rather than actually defending their arguments, and how people defend their positions is a big tool we use in determining their sincerity. Therefore 'So what if we use craplogic?' seems a scummy way to counter unwanted attention. Attacking UB because they don't want to allow head dissonance to allow hydras to contradict themselves, then starts using arguments between the heads as an excuse for not giving reads. They went

26

posts before giving their reads.

Froggy: Our big issue here is the FD vote. Jumping a wagon at L-1 with 'their defense of the accusations against them was weak' as justification looks about as obvious a scum piling on vote as this head has ever seen. That they'd shown no interest in FD earlier makes it even worse.

Now obviously, either of the last two being scum would make us feel better about the other, since while it's not impossible, this doesn't feel on a gut level like a bus. Since spot's vote for Froggy appears to be evidence of independent thought/scumhunting, we find Froggy the better vote.

Vote: FES

THIS IS LYNCH -1. WE ARE AWARE OF THIS, AND EXPECT ANYONE WHO HAMMERS TO BE AWARE TOO. WE WILL NOT ACCEPT IGNORANCE DEFENSES.