Metropolis: Revisited [Game Over]

[AGar]

@MoI

You pretty pointedly asked for my thoughts on something... then ignored them.

[MagnaofIllusion]

@MoI

You pretty pointedly asked for my thoughts on something... then ignored them.

I didn't ignore them but at this juncture I don't think arguing with you on it is productive. We have different views on the potential Town / Scum intent of Toog's play. I'd rather continue to hang scum (Hrezs, Wraith, others as they make themselves Obv) than argue with you when you are a Town read for me.

Thanks for answer ... I guess I should have said that in the first place ...

[AGar]

That works. Was just curious that you asked then didn't acknowledge.

---

In regular voting mechanics, Hrezs is at L-3. How are we doing this, anyways? Once someone get's voted to technical L-0, we all mass strike?

[Albert B. Rampage]

1) Voting Wraith doesn't have anything to do with playstyle choice, I interpreted it as FEAR.

Oh wait - did you say, FEAR?

Someone is emitting fear pheromones? I missed that. Where?

Unless there's meta evidence to prove that Wraith is of noble principles, his 'sportsmanship' post could very well be interpreted as knee-jerk terror of being blocked to death.

DGB, whenever you are ready to deliver a vote, given your strong words, we await. Hrezs is picking up fast and you are one of the few players here capable of mounting a rival wagon, so let's see some real scumhunting, yes? The challenge is thrown

[ThAdmiral]

You did?

I couldn't care less. I'm just saying you're pushing attention away from yourself to someone else because they did the same thing. It's straight up deflection.

I guess the other main reason I reject the deflection claim is that I don't think what I was doing was scummy, and therefore I don't think what you were doing was scummy either. I was bringing you up to say "look: other people have said this as well and they aren't scummy either".

You're reaction, however, is another story.

Dear god that Friend case was awful.

Well, since you clearly think my case is so shit, I'm sure you're about to school me in how to propose a really excellent case...

Hrezs is really bad. Like.. really really bad.

...or not.

ABR basically said what I had to say in response to this. This is a pretty baseless case. I also didn't call out Gummy for lurking - it was more towards ObliviousDruidMuncher and Baby Spice. I still think it was a valid concern.

Am I not allowed to scumhunt if my vote on is on another player? That's also not the problem I have with Exe, by the way. It seems like you're just skimming the thread.

I didn't realize about the other hydras, so fair enough there.
You are certainly allowed to scumhunt, but you've given much greater inclinations that you find bunny scum over hrezs scum. Are you voting hrezs because there is more support for a hrezs lynch, and therefore more likely to be lynched? Or because you find him more likely to be scum?

[ThAdmiral]

Also:

You had me as scum because I was defending wraith's position on not wanting to break the game, right? If anything AGar was defending wraith's position more strongly than I was.

No, I had you as scum conditionally with Wraith, because I detected that your

intention

(keyword here, you should take note of this) when arguing against him was defense.
Agar on the other hand, I read as having the

intention

of calling a wagon stupid.
See how

inentions

can be different even though actions are the same? This is mafia: if we read everyone on purely actions, we'd be lynching every townie who didn't play absolutely perfect.
Actions are important, but not nearly important as intentions.
You can argue all day that you and Agar are the same, but the fact is that your attitudes seemed different, and therefore your intentions seemed different.

This actually makes sense. Fair enough.

Now, however, your case on Friend....it's lulzy.

Gosh. Everyone hates my case...

In fact points out that others (such as exe) have been contributing just as little as hrezs. Still keeps vote on hrezs.

I see not one comment about Hrezs in your ISO. What do you think of him?

I found him scummy at the start for his non-committal posting, but since then he's done nothing but try to defend himself, so I am not confident in being able to get a read on him.


In a related note I have an interesting theory that I have developed regarding how lynches will work in this game. It's entirely impractical but I thought I might as well say it:
Basically because there is a lot of scum in this game I believe easy lynches are going to occur much more frequently. This is because scum will generally be happy with any lynch that is not of their own member. I am not suggesting all the scum are going to pile on every lynch, but I certainly think we won't be seeing as many divisive views on most wagons as you would in other games. My theory, therefore, is to discard the first bandwagon of the day as any subsequent bandwagon, comprised of a core of the people who weren't on the original bandwagon, will be inherently less scummy (or scum-driven) than the first one.

[Toogeloo]

I have no idea how to read Wraith's posts.

[Toogeloo]

In regular voting mechanics, Hrezs is at L-3. How are we doing this, anyways? Once someone get's voted to technical L-0, we all mass strike?

Need over 60% for a Striking death, otherwise they could just end up hospitalized, and since you guys are adamant about this voting mechanic, I wouldn't go by standard L-#.

[Albert B. Rampage]

In regular voting mechanics, Hrezs is at L-3. How are we doing this, anyways? Once someone get's voted to technical L-0, we all mass strike?

At majority, first we force the lurkers and dissidents to strike our target, then we strike our target.

[Friend]

Admiral, I'm voting Hrezs because I think he's scum. However, we have lots of scum in this game. Talking about one that everyone has talked about would be purely beating around the bush.

MoI, I wasn't defending Hrezs. I think that's the point I was trying to make. I don't see where you think I did.

[Friend]

Basically because there is a lot of scum in this game I believe easy lynches are going to occur much more frequently. This is because scum will generally be happy with any lynch that is not of their own member. I am not suggesting all the scum are going to pile on every lynch, but I certainly think we won't be seeing as many divisive views on most wagons as you would in other games. My theory, therefore, is to discard the first bandwagon of the day as any subsequent bandwagon, comprised of a core of the people who weren't on the original bandwagon, will be inherently less scummy (or scum-driven) than the first one.

So you are anti-Hrezs wagon?

[Bunnylover]

Why in the blue heavens are you still talking about a stupid noob that striked on page 3?

FOS Bunnylover

Mainly because I never made my opinion known.

@Kublai Khan:
In my opinion if you have a scum read on someone why not vote that scummy person instead of trying to pressure vote someone?
The way you put it was more of who everyone "will" lynched the next day more then what I would expect people to say which is who everyone should keep their eyes on as they can be potential scum.

Your vote been number 5 would fit in as a pressure vote, but I didn't read it as a pressure vote.

The problem with a pressure vote is that the whole logic behind it. If the lynch goes through and the person flips scum you get to say that you were on a wagon that lead to a scum flip, while if the lynch doesn't go through you can just say it was a pressure vote.
Its an easy way out of a wagon/on a wagon imo.
I have no mafia philosophy v_v.

[Kublai Khan]

@Kublai Khan:
In my opinion if you have a scum read on someone why not vote that scummy person instead of trying to pressure vote someone?
The way you put it was more of who everyone "will" lynched the next day more then what I would expect people to say which is who everyone should keep their eyes on as they can be potential scum.

Because I've played with Toogeloo. He's not the type to vanish after doing something stupid. I don't know Wraith.

Your vote been number 5 would fit in as a pressure vote, but I didn't read it as a pressure vote.

Then the problem is on your end.

The problem with a pressure vote is that the whole logic behind it. If the lynch goes through and the person flips scum you get to say that you were on a wagon that lead to a scum flip, while if the lynch doesn't go through you can just say it was a pressure vote.
Its an easy way out of a wagon/on a wagon imo.

No. If my pressure vote is on a wagon that looks like it's going to lynch, then I state my desire to be on that lynch-wagon. If I feel there's something off or scummy about the wagon, then I unvote.

I have no mafia philosophy v_v.

Obviously.

At majority, first we force the lurkers and dissidents to strike our target, then we strike our target.

Isn't that at odds with the speed-strike plan?

[Baby Spice]

What are your other individual reads BS?

Not sure what to make of Wraith. Iffy neutral comment on Toog's strike early on, the tone of the "game breaking" comments more than the comment, and has felt "softly softly". Kinda flaoting along "lets not upset town/oops I upset town lets smooth it over" Leaning scum. Though I loved the 'C' stuff I have to ask. Is that kind of joking/serious post normal for Wraith because it could have been a distraction thing.

ThAd. My gut says that ThAd is sheeping the general town sentiment. Leaning scum.

LLD softly softly again. Softly goes one way, softy goes back the other way. If Hrezs is scummy for wanting to strike Toog/subtly support Toog, then so is LLD for showing similar pattern.

CKD leaning town.

Toog. Leaning town.

ABR. Clearly scum
Actually, while I don't like "alliances" per se, I'm by nature paranoid about such things, everything else is appearing good and stuff so leaning town.

MoI: If anything seems a little too calm about the strike. I know it's a large, I know normally the first vote or two don't pressure that much, and really it's a long way from being lynched. But there's no take backs in this one with a variant voting system. Neutral.

KageLord, Nacho, KK, Magua. Willing to take stances, which is always a good sign to me, lean town. Especially Magua.

Rest I'm still looking at.

[Wraith]

Oh, other people have noticed Exe.

[insert case against Exe]

This comes off to me as you trying to shift attention off yourself to Exe.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Oh, other people have noticed Exe.

[insert case against Exe]

This comes off to me as you trying to shift attention off yourself to Exe.

Very true ... but what happened to your anti-Babblefish program speak?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

What are your other individual reads BS?

Not sure what to make of Wraith. Iffy neutral comment on Toog's strike early on, the tone of the "game breaking" comments more than the comment, and has felt "softly softly". Kinda flaoting along "lets not upset town/oops I upset town lets smooth it over" Leaning scum. Though I loved the 'C' stuff I have to ask. Is that kind of joking/serious post normal for Wraith because it could have been a distraction thing.

ThAd. My gut says that ThAd is sheeping the general town sentiment. Leaning scum.

LLD softly softly again. Softly goes one way, softy goes back the other way. If Hrezs is scummy for wanting to strike Toog/

subtly support Toog

, then so is LLD for showing similar pattern.

CKD leaning town.

Toog. Leaning town.

ABR. Clearly scum
Actually, while I don't like "alliances" per se, I'm by nature paranoid about such things, everything else is appearing good and stuff so leaning town.

MoI: If anything seems a little too calm about the strike. I know it's a large, I know normally the first vote or two don't pressure that much, and really it's a long way from being lynched. But there's no take backs in this one with a variant voting system. Neutral.

KageLord, Nacho, KK, Magua. Willing to take stances, which is always a good sign to me, lean town. Especially Magua.

Rest I'm still looking at.

Bolded is hysterical.

Also, I have never advocated the striking of Toog. It's a waste of time and strikes. People should be concentrating on scum, not Baka Bear. He's a distraction.

[Wraith]

Oh, other people have noticed Exe.

[insert case against Exe]

This comes off to me as you trying to shift attention off yourself to Exe.

Very true ... but what happened to your anti-Babblefish program speak?

That was gimmick I felt like posting at that time to have a little fun with my posting. Since it's so hard for most people to read, I'll probably not do that anymore.

[DrippingGoofball]

DGB, whenever you are ready to deliver a vote...

I'm procrastinating reading the rules... I hate reading rules... I'd appreciate at tl;dr.

[Albert B. Rampage]

ABR. Clearly scum
Actually, while I don't like "alliances" per se, I'm by nature paranoid about such things, everything else is appearing good and stuff so leaning town.

My alliances seem one-sided and unrequited

At majority, first we force the lurkers and dissidents to strike our target, then we strike our target.

Isn't that at odds with the speed-strike plan?

I think we would plateau at 45-55% of strikes required with that plan, and then stall for a week for lurkers and dissidents to come around for that extra push over the cliff. Instead, once a majority is achieved, we have to enforce the entire population to submit to the democratic choice regardless of personal opinion.

DGB, whenever you are ready to deliver a vote...

I'm procrastinating reading the rules... I hate reading rules... I'd appreciate at tl;dr.

We /strike instead of vote. We can't take back strikes (unstrike). When 60% of the players have striked a player, he or she dies. We are now pseudo-voting so that once someone's reached a majority of votes, we mass-strike.

[Friend]

Baby Spice, do you have any solid scum reads whatsoever? What do you find useful about posting your various townreads?

[Magua]

Wraith's code will not compile. Not even close. I'm just sayin'.

Thanks to ABR for taking over the vote counts.

Hrezs remains scum.

Exe and Hrezs are not on the same team. Exe and Friend are also not on the same team.

DGB is more reserved than normal for her, which is setting off warning bells.

Bunnylover's play so far is the towniest of all the Bunnylover games I've seen; seriously. Putting BunnyLover into the null-to-town category.

I don't trust ABR, MagnaofIllusion, or LLD's play so far, but I like the force that they're bringing to the game. Also I like the fact that they're voting for Hrezs.

Everyone else just hasn't made enough of an impression on me yet.

[Albert B. Rampage]

You don't trust me sir?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

You don't trust me sir?

[Magua]

You don't trust me sir?

No, but your reading comprehension skills remain top-notch.

LLD I know less about; I've only played Multiple Personality Mafia with her, and that was a complete and utter trainwreck for the scum (which I replaced in as), so I'm still forming up a read.